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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS- Part 5
neverbelieve
♀ Member
Member # 32711
Default  Posted: 1:17 PM, July 8th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Here is an easy one - how bad do you feel that you had an affair? It's really difficult for me (and other BSs I'm sure) to imagine you feel badly at all, other than about being caught. If the feelings are so harsh, how could you have carried on an affair in the first place? How do you bury these feelings that 'miraculously' appear after being caught?

I'm not judging you so please don't misread my question. I'm really trying to understand the mindset of the WS so that I can understand what my FWH is dealing with. Thank you.


When the infrastructure of a building is gone the collapse is inevitable.

Posts: 934 | Registered: Jul 2011
GroundZero
♀ Member
Member # 27853
Default  Posted: 3:01 PM, July 8th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Laura and Phoenix -

I do hesitate to answer this question, because the responses are bitter to take and because it is hard to admit the horrifying choices I made and things that I did. Of course, I only speak for myself and I know other fWSs had very different experiences.

For background, I was married 7 years at the time of my affair, with my now-exH for over a decade. I never even thought about another man in that way before I met the AP, so I would have always said (and did say) "I would never do that" regarding having an A.

My now-ex and I were having very serious problems. I had asked for a divorce primarily due to his refusal to deal with his alcoholism and some abuse that went with his drinking. There were numerous other relatively major issues as well, but that was the biggest one. Despite asking for and wanting a D, we had not separated and the M was not yet over. There is no excuse for what I did.

I had worked with my xAP for years, but never met him, even though we worked in the same town, just different offices of our company. When I met him at a company gathering, the connection was immediate and I knew a relationship with him of any sort was dangerous. But we started down the slippery slope of justifications and rationalizations for ever-increased contact - starting to talk about personal things when we talked for work reasons, becoming FB friends, exchanging messages there, getting drinks after work - we did that for months without any express sexual content, but the mutual attraction was palpable. That was the EA.

Eventually there was the confession of true feelings, which we talked about for weeks without acting on it physically. Then the increase of intimacy, touching hands, kissing, and so on over a number of weeks until we had sex for the first time. The first few times weren't good. We both felt confused, ashamed and guilty. He could not perform the very first try. But yes, we pressed on anyway.

Over time, the sex was very good. Really, brutally honestly, the best I had ever had. Part of that was mechanics, part of that was the feelings, and I am sure part of that was the surge of chemicals from the secrecy etc. I did want to be with him as often as I could. By this point I felt I loved him, though we had not said it to each other.

My sex life with my BH was always good. It was the one aspect of our marriage that seemed to still work okay, as long as he had not had way too much to drink, in which case he would abuse me sexually and it would ultimately end up with me sobbing and him waking up in the guest room with no recollection of what had happened the night before. But I digress. Sex with my BH was always relatively frequent, but unimaginative as tends to happen over time in a marriage and with young children.

If anything, the A made me more sexual with my BH. I could not see the AP all that often, so I was turned on without the object of that desire, so to speak. My BH was there and safe. I know how heinous that sounds (and is), but it is the truth. I did think of my AP during sex with my BH. I didn't have guilt sex with my BH and I never had sex with my AP because I thought it was expected either. As twisted as it was, I felt most guilty about having sex with my BH. Like I was cheating on my AP! We both knew the other was likely still having sex with our respective spouses. We just agreed not to discuss it with each other.

I can't speak to post D-Day or post-A sexual experiences. After D-Day my BH and I never had sex again. I did go underground with the A, though I ended the A before my BH and I divorced.

I don't know how your FWH felt about the AP and if there is any similarity here that you can draw from. But I can tell you for certain he feels about you differently than I felt about my BS. I never wanted R as before I even met the xAP and started down that slippery slope, I had already decided on D. That did not change with D-Day, and I have not regretted that decision, though I regret so much about every decision I made with regard to the A.

I am sorry for the brutality of my response. I am disgusted at my own actions writing about it. I hope you found it helpful in some way.

-GZ


Out of clutter, find simplicity; out of discord, find harmony; in the middle of difficulty lies opportunity. Einstein

Posts: 1777 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: Land of the Sweet Lovely Kiddos
verysorry97
♀ Member
Member # 32403
Default  Posted: 5:51 PM, July 8th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NeverB,

Let me take a shot at your question.

I am only speeking for myself so my feelings may not be the same as other WS.

First, my feelings didn't just appear; they were ripped out of me by the pain I have caused my BH.

When the A was going on, I was started, I was deluding myself. For a number of reasons, I felt worthless and had convinced myself that my H couldn't really care for someone so low. Nothing he did; it was all in my mind.

Then, along came the OM. Young, good looking and attentive. It fed my ego and I kept feeding the delusions.

D Day ripped the veil off of these fantasies. I had convinced myself that my H wouldn't really care. I was so wrong. If anyone could have looked in his face and heard his sobs without feeling guilt, self lothing, and remorse, they would have been a real monster. I seriously considered suicide for the first few weeks.

Afterward, I had no longing for the A or the OM. I have truely dedicated my life to helping my BH heal. I hope I can save my M but that is second.

I made bad choices, and was in a fantasy world. But I was not a monster.

Sorry for the rambling.


WW - Me 42
BH - 42
D Day 4/27/11
DS 21
DD 19
2 furry friends

Praying for a chance at R


Posts: 132 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: Eastern PA
hopelessromantic
♀ Member
Member # 25415
Default  Posted: 8:33 PM, July 8th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

verrysorry97 -

I felt worthless and had convinced myself that my H couldn't really care for someone so low. Nothing he did; it was all in my mind.

Thank you for sharing this - my H has said this to me many times in trying to explain to me how he let this happen. For whatever reason, it helps this BS to hear it described this way from another WS as well. So thank you.

HR


BS-Me FWS-him (bigdog)
D-Day 5/3/09 TT til 6/22/09
Behind every woman scorned is a man who made her that way.

Posts: 2836 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Midwest
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 9:27 PM, July 8th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

GroundZero

Thanks so much for your response. I really appreciate your honesty and I know it must have been hard for you.

it is hard to admit the horrifying choices I made and things that I did. Of course, I only speak for myself and I know other fWSs had very different experiences.

Yes but this IS your story and I hope that in writing it and trying to help BSs like me it helps you towards peace.

Thanks

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 12:21 AM, July 10th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

neverbelieve,
Here is an easy one - how bad do you feel that you had an affair?
This isn't really that easy of a question.
It's really difficult for me (and other BSs I'm sure) to imagine you feel badly at all, other than about being caught.
I think that for the WS here on SI, we generally feel badly, not for having been caught (I confessed BTW), but for the pain and devastation we have caused. WS who only feel badly for being caught are not going to "get it" until they are ready, at which point, their feelings will be a result of their realization of having caused the pain and devastation, not the guilt and shame of having been caught.
If the feelings are so harsh, how could you have carried on an affair in the first place?
First of all, most WS don't realize how harsh things will be. There is a huge separation between the feelings of the A and the feelings after d-day. The feelings during the A will allow the WS to talk themselves into believing that what they are doing isn't going to hurt the BS. Of course, we know it will hurt the BS, but not how much. We become very good at minimizing and justifying.
How do you bury these feelings that 'miraculously' appear after being caught?
They don't always miraculously appear. In my case, it take a long time for those feelings to appear. I had put so many layers of bullshit over things that it took a lot of shoveling to get to where those feelings were. The bullshit in part was due to the feelings of the A.

Some WS are more aware of their feelings during the A than others. I was one who didn't know what kind of pain and devastation I was going to cause in confessing. I was on a long-term high during the A which really messed me up.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6048 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 12:25 AM, July 10th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

mostlymine,
Baxter why doesn't your BW show her anger if you don't mind me asking? I feel I might be at point where I might need to hold back. I'm not sure.
You would have to ask her for a more in depth answer. A lot of it has to do with FOO issues.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6048 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 12:45 AM, July 10th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tryingmybest2011,
How does a WS get into multiple affairs?
Not sure if I can answer this adequately...however, despite the type of A, whether LTA or short fling, I think it has to do with avoidance of something.

I had an EA. Leading up to that EA, I can identify many other relationships that I now recognize as being a slippery slope. Each one became progressively steeper until the last one which was a full on EA.

Looking back, I have been avoiding something that is broken inside me. I have avoided it by finding relationships which kept the status quo and allowed me to function within the life I was living. When one relationship would end, another would surface. Whatever I was getting out of these relationships was like a salve which allowed me to avoid recognizing the hurt and breakage inside of me.

Not sure about cognitive dissonance (big words/short attention span...) or limerance. Those are part of the picture, but A's are like drugs. It feels really good until you crash. And when you crash, you want another trip. It's hard to admit that we have something in us that is so analogous to an addiction, but that is sort of what it's like. We will keep going back for more until something inside us reaches that limit. Sometimes we will get there on our own, sometimes we will get caught.

Not sure I would buy the "not missing her" comments. Maybe he doesn't miss her, but I would bet he still remembers a lot about her. It will probably take him a while to put all of this in place and figure how he did what he did and why. If he is working on it and questioning himself, then he is starting down a good road.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6048 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 1:03 AM, July 10th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

stillcoping74,

I think GZ says it all. Take care of yourself. If things change, you can slow down the D process. You are in the drivers seat.

As far as what your MC says, that was what I had feared post d-day as I was coming out of the fog. I feared looking back and immediately knowing I had made the worst decision in my life. I also had some idea that leaving for MOW would not have solved anything that was really at the root of the problems I had going on.

Keep strong. Talk with the BS's here. They will have a much better idea of where you are at and where you need to go from here.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6048 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
stillinshockx2
♀ Member
Member # 28638
Default  Posted: 9:28 AM, July 10th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

StillCoping74,

I am a BS. I have been reading many posts the last few days, and may have your situation confused with someone else's. Also, I might need to re-read your post, but I wanted to comment on your ability to prove adultery. I don't know what state you live in. However, in my state, if a spouse has sex with their wayward spouse after knowing the WS has committed adultery, then the adultery cannot serve as a fault ground for the divorce. The WS has a defense called condonation. Essentially, if a BS knows that at WS has committed adultery and has sex with WS after knowing that, the adultery is "forgiven" and cannot serve as a ground for divorce.

As I said, I didn't reread your post to see if you have had sex with WH since he admitted the PA, but I wanted you to know this. In my state, adultery can bar a WS from receiving spousal support (didn't you say you made more money?), can get you divorced without a waiting period, and is one of 10+ factors in splitting the property.

Please talk to an attorney, and do not have sex with WS until you have.


Me: BS, 48; Him: WS, 52
DDay 1 - EA (denies PA) 6-13-05
DDay 2 - EA (denies PA) 3-30-10
DDay 3 - 8-04-10 WH living w/30 yo OW2; still denies PA despite PI proof and won't admit he lives with OW2
2 children (D20, S18)
M 25 years; together 8

Posts: 321 | Registered: May 2010
Deeply Scared
♀ Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 9:49 AM, July 10th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

stillinshockx2...

This thread isn't for BS's to talk back and forth to...it is strictly a Q&A thread between BS's to WS's.


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 192070 | Registered: May 2002
Phoenix519
♀ Member
Member # 26186
Default  Posted: 1:08 PM, July 11th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Groundzero...thank you so much for responding to our post. This has been such a learning process for me and I appreciate your honestness and openness regarding this subject.

You helped


Posts: 581 | Registered: Nov 2009
mostlymine
♀ Member
Member # 31511
Default  Posted: 9:00 AM, July 12th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for everyones help. I have another question:

During R did you feel like giving up because you felt so bad about yourself but still loved your BS? Or would really be because they just don't want to work/ care?

Reason I ask is because my wh said that for a couple of days he felt like leaving me (we have been R for 3 months now and together for 10 yrs.). He said it didn't feel like he would die if he left. He is suffering from depression and is on ADs. He has had bouts of sadness for days that worry me.


BS- me (30ish)
See profile for details
Getting divorced... Wh is addicted to MOW
I edit because of typos...auto corrects stinks!

Posts: 830 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: Texas
strength&beauty
♀ Member
Member # 30321
Default  Posted: 4:17 PM, July 12th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

During R did you feel like giving up because you felt so bad about yourself but still loved your BS? Or would really be because they just don't want to work/ care?

Reason I ask is because my wh said that for a couple of days he felt like leaving me (we have been R for 3 months now and together for 10 yrs.). He said it didn't feel like he would die if he left. He is suffering from depression and is on ADs. He has had bouts of sadness for days that worry me.

i have this same question. would love to hear more Please!
my WH goes back and forth on staying/going. when he gets like this, he frequently says he just wants me to be happy and that i deserve better than him.
yes, he too is very depressed etc..


I edit alot because i read my posts after i hit submit. i don't catch my errors until then!

Posts: 139 | Registered: Dec 2010
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 9:34 PM, July 12th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

During R did you feel like giving up because you felt so bad about yourself but still loved your BS? Or would really be because they just don't want to work/ care?
Yes, I felt like giving up. Sometimes I still feel like giving up. I do feel bad, and wanting to give up seems to magnify that. It isn't because I don't care, it is because I am afraid to do the work. I am afraid of dealing with things that I have learned to cope with already. So I face having to throw out all that I know and learn something new about myself. Of course I would like to give up and just keep the status quo, but then I would just go through life making the same mistakes as before.

mostlymine, Yeah, we would survive if we gave up. But we would be empty.

strength&beauty, Yeah, by now BW would likely have found a source of love that she deserves. Instead, the fear prevents the WS from providing that love for the BS and we continue on in this state of uncertainty about ourselves.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6048 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
Imissmybubble
♀ Member
Member # 29820
Default  Posted: 11:59 PM, July 12th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My question is along the same lines....I know my WH feels horrible about what he's done, but the fact is, he did it. He had two affairs, he told me he didn't love me anymore and he told me he wanted a divorce. All those words he said just ring in my ears all the time. So my question is this: when my WH repeatedly says he'll leave if I want him to, he'll let me divorce him if that's what I want, he only wants me to be happy with or without him, is that what he really means or is he just wanting ME to be the one to pull the trigger and file for D?


BS=me, WS=him

Posts: 1318 | Registered: Oct 2010
neverbelieve
♀ Member
Member # 32711
Default  Posted: 8:22 AM, July 13th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Along Imissmybubble's comment, is it possible that the WS is saying they'll do what we want so that WE are the ones choosing to stay and THEY can continue with the TT and omissions and whatnot? After all, WE are the ones that wanted to stay in the relationship.


When the infrastructure of a building is gone the collapse is inevitable.

Posts: 934 | Registered: Jul 2011
suckstobeme
♀ Member
Member # 30853
Default  Posted: 6:33 PM, July 13th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is it true that your BS and your children are your "emotional mirrors"? In other words, after the A blew up and you were sort of backed into a corner, was it difficult to look at your BS and your kids? For those of you who left the house, what thoughts went through your mind? Was it a progression of "thank God I'm free" to "what the hell did I do"?? If your BS employed the 180/NC, how did that impact your thoughts as you sat alone in the dark?


BW - me
ExWH - "that one"
D - 2011
You get what you put in, and people get what they deserve.
Hard as it may be, try to never give the OP any of your power or head space.

Posts: 2506 | Registered: Jan 2011
mostlymine
♀ Member
Member # 31511
Default  Posted: 8:43 PM, July 13th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My question is for those who had sex with the AP. If after the first time you had sex and wondered "what the hell did I just do?" and then had sex with the AP again. Why did you go back for more?

My WH had sex with MOW in our bed. He said he regretted doing it. Then four days later he told me he didnt know if he could be with someone who didn trust him and he was going to stay at a hotel for 4 nights to think about it. He ended up having the MOW two nights and they had sex each time after "talking" for a while. He admits the reason why he said he was leaving was just blameshifting now.


BS- me (30ish)
See profile for details
Getting divorced... Wh is addicted to MOW
I edit because of typos...auto corrects stinks!

Posts: 830 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: Texas
awakenedbytruth
♀ Member
Member # 29435
Default  Posted: 11:07 PM, July 14th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm sure this has been asked before and will be asked again. My apologies but this is the first time to this room.

How likely is it that when you have given it the old collage try but it's over...and you may have not been 100% into the effort, does the WS contact the OP for a more proper exploration of the relationship. Even if you know it's not likely to work out, it seems that if the ending was sudden that you may want to make sure.

Happen often? I know, it's the 2nd worse fear after the 1st has already come true....so I recognize the absolute craziness of trying to predict this. I'm just trying to prepare myself. Thanks.


“Courage is the power to let go of the familiar.” - Raymond Linquist
Me BS-39
Him WH-41
Married 18yrs 2 Kids 11-9
DDay#1-July 5, 2010 (LTA 2 Years with CoW in corporate office)
Separating - 8/11

Posts: 118 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: West but my heart belongs to the South
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