Just like the A, its selfishness. Plain and simple. Unfortunately the kids suffer. Stand your ground, even contact your lawyer if you have to. Don't waiver. Remain strong. He is a selfish person as is his AP. Im so sorry for you and your babies.
I agree with Hope24 on this one, it is a very situational thing. So it is also very situational as to whether this is part of the remorse that your WH may be experiencing.
I didn't apologize to the BH. MOW didn't apologize to my BW. NC is best.
I have my own reasons for not apologizing. And I believe MOW is the last person my BW wants to ever talk to.
How can a WS turn his/her back on their children? I have read numerous posts on SI about the WS flat out abandoning the BS and their children. My own WH intended to do this. He planned to D me, leave me and the boys for MOW and her children, as well as try to have another child with her. She planned to have custody of her children, but my WH would abandon his own kids.
This is what hurts the most. WH was a great, loving, hands-on dad, not just a sperm-donor. He was always there for our boys. They thought he walked on water. Sadly, they now know he was planning to leave them.
How could any parent do this to their own children? All three of our boys are now fucked up. They are all on anti-depressents, in IC and FC, and generally hate their father now. Especially our DS17 who tried to commit suicide due to his father's A. My WH has totally destroyed the wonderful father-son relationships he had with his sons. They have absolutely no respect for him anymore. And he bitches and wonders why they no longer listen to him. BECAUSE YOU PLANNED TO ABANDON THEM. How did you expect them to react?
HOW COULD ANY FATHER/MOTHER DO THIS TO THERE OWN CHILDREN?
Edited to revise...
[This message edited by isadora1985 at 4:30 PM, June 14th (Tuesday)]
If you have a question for the WS's here, then please post it...but keep the venting and name calling about your H off this thread.
"I'm happily indifferent to the ones who have consistently been wrong" ~kd lang~
Since this was supposed to be a Q for the WS, I thought it should go here. I thought in General I would get told it should be posted here.
This topic just so hard to deal with. It hurts so much, I can't write about it without it becoming a vent. Which I did not actually intend. It truly is a question for the WS. Because I just don't understand how? I would just like some insight on how a WS might get to this point. Because now my WH is trying to be the former wonderful dad he once was. How, why, what changed in the span of 3 years?
I'll just focus on my own situation...
I was going to leave. Wasn't going to fight anything that BW might have gone for in regards to D.
The first step was that I had talked myself into believing that BW didn't love me. I believed that her actions after d-day were out of fear of being alone and that she didn't really want me to be around, but was just afraid to be a single parent. The next step was that I had talked myself into believing that they family would be better off without me. I was having an A. What kind of man has an A and can still say they love their kids? So in a convoluted way, I was protecting everybody by leaving them and promising not to be a prick or a deadbeat dad.
That was the type of thinking that I was doing during the A and for a long time after. Plus, throw in that the A feels pretty good when you are in it, like getting a fix, and how can your thinking be wrong? Yeah, I know...pretty messed up.
Like I said, this is how it was in my situation. Not sure if you can see any similarities to yours.
My next question to you is, does the OW compare herself to the wife? I don't engage with this person and have never contacted her, but she is a confirmed drama queen who clearly feels bad about herself and likes to cut others down. She has a mess of a life with what look to be as many or even more problems than my STBXH. I'm obviously not perfect, but I am a good person for the most part, I am good to look at (or so they say), I'm a professional with a great education, I have my children and my lovely home.
I wonder, do the OWs - who are already broken and insecure about themselves - work extra hard to compare themselves to us and do they try to manipulate the partner into certain believes about the ex??? I don't know if I'm saying this right or if I'm just rambling, but I guess I just wonder if they compare themselves to us and if one day the table will flip and they will feel like WE are the threat simply by existing. Does that make sense???
From my OW perspective: I never compared myself to AP's W until the end. I never met her, but had seen her in passing many years ago. I simply 'believed' that he loved and needed both of us for different reasons.
The only thing he ever said about her was "she is a great person". I wondered how great was I in comparison when I was effing a M man?! At one point toward the end he rather disappeared on me for a while. I began to think that if he had no time for me, and he really wasn't getting anything from me that he couldn't get at home, then what was the point? Looking back, I think she got suspicious at the very least and he went underground without telling me anything about it.
Anyway - I started to come out of my fog at that time. There was no future in this, and even if there was, she would always be in our lives, the great person that she is and all. The fantasy all came crashing down rather quickly, and I came to my senses. So yes, I might have always been a little paranoid about their history and never ending love for each other despite any split.
I guess this is what my FWH was thinking too. He even got to the point of trying to commit suicide.
The next step was that I had talked myself into believing that they family would be better off without me. I was having an A. What kind of man has an A and can still say they love their kids? So in a convoluted way, I was protecting everybody by leaving them and promising not to be a prick or a deadbeat dad.
But what now? He and I are in IC, MC and FC. How does he repair the damage he did not only to our marriage but to our boys? He is trying to regain his position as the man/head of our family. DS17 wants nothing to do with him. He would be perfectly happy for his dad to leave and stay gone. In response, FWH has become very critical of DS. DS17 can't do anything right where his dad is concerned. He resents the way DS17 is acting/responding to him. Can he not see that it's HIS own actions that have caused DS17 to act the way he does? When DS17 is told he needs to respect his dad as he is trying to repair their relationship, he says that his dad has to respect him first. That he won't respect FWH because FWH doesn't respect him. FWH is trying really hard to undo the damage he has caused. He is attending C with and without us. He is getting medical and mental treatment for his PTSD and depression. He has gotten a much better job to help us finacially and switched to day shift in order to be home in the evenings with the family/his boys. But it just seems like they go round and round in a circle. DS17 does his best on things, but FWH thinks he isn't making enough effort. No matter what DS does, it doesn't seem to be enough or good enough for his dad. DS17 thinks why should he bother trying to please his dad. His efforts didn't matter before when his dad was going to leave us, so why would they matter now? It's like they are stuck in a vicious circle with no way to get off. Unfortunately it's dragging everyone else down as well.
How do we/they get back the balance of father and son after all the damage that has been done? Sometimes I feel like just bashing both their heads in. I dearly love them both, but I don't know if I can handle this much longer. I am going out of town next week to attend a neiece's wedding. FWH and the boys are staying home. It was WW3 the last time I went somewhere. I am seriously considering filing for D and moving back home with our youngest. I just cannot live like this much longer. Either that or tell both of them to just leave. Dammit, he created this mess. Why do I have to clean it up? My cleaning days are almost over. I just cannot/will not do it anymore. I am on 4 different meds because of this shit. I suspect I also have an ulcer from the sheer stress. I have another doctor's appointment after the wedding to find out.
Can't live with them; can't live without them.
[This message edited by isadora1985 at 4:12 PM, June 15th (Wednesday)]
does the OW compare herself to the wife?
I didn't, but then again, when I was in the A I wasn't interested in replacing the BSO. I was an idiot and wanted the same attention he was giving her, but didn't want to replace her. I knew he wasn't leaving her, so there was no point in comparing her to me in my head.
I wonder, do the OWs - who are already broken and insecure about themselves - work extra hard to compare themselves to us and do they try to manipulate the partner into certain believes about the ex???
I've read enough on this site about psychotic OW's to believe that they'll manipulate anything to get everything they want, with no reservations. They are very, very damaged individuals who are checked out of reality.
I don't know if I'm saying this right or if I'm just rambling, but I guess I just wonder if they compare themselves to us and if one day the table will flip and they will feel like WE are the threat simply by existing.
I think that is a very reasonable expectation, especially if the OW in your situation already has shown tendencies to be that nutso. I hope she leaves you alone, for your sake.
FSOW - mid 30's now
It's easy to see that she's really putting the heat on STBXH for ALL of his attention and particularly at the expense of his own kids. He was never the type of person to badger or stomp his feet to get what he wanted. Now, he does it all over the place. It's easy to see that he's whipped and she knows it. He's sacrificing everything that he knows is good and right to try to make her happy. From what I can tell, it's an ugly relationship. I think they are still in their fantasy world, but it's ugly and seems to be getting uglier.
He's giving up the 4th of July holiday with the kids to be with her and hasn't even asked me about taking them for Father's day. He missed the baby's first dance recital and is just standing on the sidelines acting like a babysitter while his own children grow and cry for him.
To me, he's crazy, but, at the same time, he's weak. He's trying everything in his power to keep this fantasy going. I don't know what will happen or where he will land after his wild ride is over, but it's hard to watch so I try to just get out of the way.
I did wonder though what her mindset would be and what her opinion of me is. I'm well known in his profession and particularly at his firm. I have a good reputation and I wonder if she feels like she has to do whatever she can to compete with me.
Most days, in my heart and in my head, I know she can't compete.
anotherbetrayal - Somehow I thought the A would balance my life - I was a cake eater. I woke up when I realized that my A was causing me nothing but grief and inner turmoil. I was compromising myself...for what, exactly? How did I turn into a woman that would destroy 2 families, especially when I was a child of an infidelity D myself? I didn't even recognize myself at all. It threw me into a tailspin of even more self doubt and self loathing than I had before the A. I'm working hard to find ME again and to make amends with my BH.
I wish you luck and your BH is a lucky man.
I have a hard time imagining that my STBXH is feeling just fine and dandy what with the fact that he's disappointing his children and he disappointed us as a family, particularly with his exhoritent spending that I did not know about. It's like he dug this awful hole and I don't think there will be a way out for him. Has the loathing started yet? I've heard about it, and have seen a few glimpses of it from him, i.e., a friend told me about one FB post he put up that said, "i'm pretty sure most people think I'm an idiot", but I don't know that he's in full blown hatred of himself mode yet.
How does this work???
During your A, did you try to reach out to your AP's children in any way?
It's all shits and giggles until someone giggles and shits.
For me, the self- loathing did not kick in for a while. Over six months, I would say. I first was still in "the fog" and denial. Then there was a lot of self-pity that was linked with lowing the AP and also having the endure the fear of losing my BH. I was terrified of that.
The self loathing, for me, was linked with remorse. Once I let myself truly see how much I had hurt BH...once I saw his pain and let myself feel it...it was unbearable. So for me, the self loathing was linked with empathy in a way. but it was also a beginning of seeing the reality of " god, how was I so stupid....how could I do this...how could I hurt him...why...echoing through my head."
hope that helps a bit
My next question is about "self-loathing". Does this occur right after d-day and, if you left for the OP for while, does it happen while you are in that initial phase of the world blowing up? Or, does the self-loathing emerge later on? Is it something you can ignore for a while and then it comes crashing down?
My self-loathing started long before the A. It had its roots in my childhood.
During the affair, I was able to compartmentalize it for awhile, but only for a short time. My conscience got to a point where I had to end it.
The A was a self-fulfilling prophesy. It got worse after the affair and I still haven't recovered.