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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS- Part 5
HUFI-PUFI
♂ Member
Member # 25460
Default  Posted: 2:25 PM, November 30th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FmrLIer - He's having a hard time getting past it. I've explained to him that I'm suffering too, my self-esteem is shot and now I'm full of hurt and anger. He recognizes this but then says that's why his self worth is shot.

This is something that I can empathize with very much. Itís a self-fulfilling prophecy. You see the pain in your BS eyes and it feeds the shame and guilt and amplifies the loss of self-integrity and your responsibility for the affair. Oh yes, a very vicious feedback loop that you can get going this way. The more remorse, the more that process of shame internalization happens IMO. Not unlike the saying that says that the amount of pain and tears is a measure of the love that the BS had invested, so too, I think there can be argument that the degree of self-loathing is proportional to the shame and guilt that is felt. That shame and guilt feeds the loss of self-worth. How can someone feel like a good person, a person of values and integrity and goodness if they are the responsible ones, if they are the ones that are weak, that they are the reason and cause of this mess? Oh, yes, the whole self-image thing takes one hell of a shit kicking.

FmrLIer - How do I help him start to regain his self worth? I make sure I tell him how much I love him, just not what he did, and that he's a good husband/father otherwise I wouldn't be fighting for our marriage.

Well, for sure, you canít heal this for him. IMHO, this is the hard part of the battle that he has to do on his own. Somehow, he has to integrate the loss of his self into the new reality that exists. While it may be helpful to hear words of encouragement and to receive some gestures of external validation from you, I think the real fight is within us.

Somewhere we have to figure out how to balance the myth of ourselves as good people against our actions which were bad. Somehow we have to battle to integrate the hero that we want to be with the monster that we had become.

Right now, thatís the battle that I am fighting and to tell you the truth, not very successfully. I can quote you chapter and verse of the healing theories but I just have not been able to have that ďahaĒ moment where it all comes together. Perhaps it never will.

In the meantime, continue to validate him as a man and husband. It canít hurt and can only help in strengthen his view of himself as a good person. Perhaps in time, he will be able to integrate this and that should result in his self-worth being restored.

HUFI

Myths reveal how we wish to think of ourselves, how we would like to be, if only we had the courage - Unknown Poster


Donít listen to your head, itís easily confused. Donít listen to your heart, its fickle. Listen to your soul, God doesn't steer you wrong.

Posts: 3219 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Azilda, Northern Ontario
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, November 30th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He recognizes this but then says that's why his self worth is shot.
So he is still making you responsible for his feelings?

My gut says that he knows what he did, he admits it, he can talk about it, but by continuing to feel bad for himself because of how you feel, he is allowing himself to wallow in self pity and put off fully owning his shit. Does that make sense? (this is what I have been doing...)


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6061 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 3:03 PM, November 30th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FmrLIer -

I'm going to merge a bit of what both HUFI and Baxters are saying.

How do I help him start to regain his self worth? I make sure I tell him how much I love him, just not what he did, and that he's a good husband/father otherwise I wouldn't be fighting for our marriage.

HUFI is right - this is a battle your WH has to do the hard work on himself. And it most certainly is holding him back from facing the extent of his actions head on.

So you cannot do the healing for him. But you can hold him accountable for his healing process. My BW held firm to the fact that I needed to work through IC until I had unearthed the depths of my actions and confronted them. She pushed for us to read After the Affair together and to discuss each chapter openly and in a non-judgmental manner. By her holding me accountable to my own healing process, I was ultimately able to find my way out of the self pity mode.

At the heart of my realization was to look at myself not as one massive jumble of life experiences, but as someone who goes through seasons. Most have been good seasons, while a couple have been very dark. But as I reflect if I can say that the bright seasons well exceed the dark ones, I think I have fulfilled my life in the best way I could.

At one time I likened this to C.S. Lewis' "The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe". During my A, it was like the Winter in Narnia - always Winter but never Christmas. Dark, cold and isolated. D-Day marked a turning point, that arrival of Father Christmas and the sign that things were moving forward. It took a while for longer brighter days to emerge and warmth to melt away the ice and snow. That was the time where I was clearing the fog of the A and starting to see more clearly again. When the fog had cleared, it was full blown Spring filled with hope and promise and life.

Your WH may need to find his own analogy or mantra that gets him through the healing until he feels strong enough on his own again. All you can do is hold him accountable to keep moving forward and not let his self pity paralyze him in one spot.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
FmrLIer
♀ Member
Member # 29784
Default  Posted: 3:06 PM, November 30th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's funny that you both responded in two different ways because this is where I feel torn and at odds with my thinking.

One part of me knows and feels that he owns what he did. He knows he screwed up and he caused me pain and heartache. He honestly gets it. He's trying desperately to make things right again.

The other side thinks, hey, WTF? How can you feel sorry for yourself when I'm the one that got hurt and by your own doing? What gives him the right to feel bad? But, again, I understand that part of it too.

The remorseful feelings he feels are a good sign but they are making it difficult for us to talk at times.


Me (BS)
Him (fSAH)
OA/PA

Ignorance was bliss but it wasn't the reality of my marriage...


Posts: 427 | Registered: Oct 2010
FmrLIer
♀ Member
Member # 29784
Default  Posted: 3:18 PM, November 30th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

At one time I likened this to C.S. Lewis' "The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe". During my A, it was like the Winter in Narnia - always Winter but never Christmas. Dark, cold and isolated. D-Day marked a turning point, that arrival of Father Christmas and the sign that things were moving forward.
It took a while for longer brighter days to emerge and warmth to melt away the ice and snow. That was the time where I was clearing the fog of the A and starting to see more clearly again. When the fog had cleared, it was full blown Spring filled with hope and promise and life.

Beautifully stated


Me (BS)
Him (fSAH)
OA/PA

Ignorance was bliss but it wasn't the reality of my marriage...


Posts: 427 | Registered: Oct 2010
HUFI-PUFI
♂ Member
Member # 25460
Default  Posted: 5:15 PM, November 30th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FmrLIer - What gives him the right to feel bad?

Itís not his right, itís his punishment. Guilt and shame and self-loathing are his self imposed punishment for his failure as a husband and perhaps more harmful, his failure to live up to himself. Unless your H is a serial philander, the truth may be that he had morals and values and a self-image that he has totally destroyed in the process of this affair.

Of course you as the BS hurt. After all you have lost your faith, trust and sense of innocence forever but then again so has he.

He canít trust himself anymore either. He canít walk around with his head up proudly for his good deeds, can he? He also lost the trust in the marriage; after all, it doesnít exist there for him anymore does it. And the truth is that heís the reason that you lost all of this.

When an otherwise good man falls, along with guilt comes a whole shit load of shame.

Shame is the corner stone of your husbandís existence right now. How can it be otherwise?

Yes, perhaps he has spend time and energy learning why he had the affair but the chances are that he is still struggling to integrate the polar opposites of a good man and a cheater within himself.

As I read the book, Healing the Shame that Binds You by John Bradshaw, I was struck by one passage yesterday night on page 60.

Ē To sum up, shame internalization has four major consequences. A shame based identity is formed, the depth of shame is magnified and frozen, autonomous shame activation or functional autonomy results and finally, internal shame spiral are made operative.Ē

This spiral is one of the most devastating aspects of dysfunctional shame. Once the cycle starts, it serves to solidify shame and that in turn strengthens the spiral again. And a whole lot of the WS's here can testify as to how dark that spiral is.

Iíd love to tell you how to help him out of this cycle other than the advice I gave in the previous post but in truth, Iím sort of stuck at this point myself. As Listeningclosely said, this is a battle within himself between himself and he is the one that has to win. Maybe, he should get this book and read it.

HUFI

[This message edited by HUFI-PUFI at 5:22 PM, November 30th (Tuesday)]


Donít listen to your head, itís easily confused. Donít listen to your heart, its fickle. Listen to your soul, God doesn't steer you wrong.

Posts: 3219 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Azilda, Northern Ontario
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 6:10 PM, November 30th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't think HUFI and I are dissimilar in our answers.

I spent a lot of time lamenting what I had done, self flagellating for my actions that hurt my BW, feeling sorry for myself, and wondering how in the hell I could ever have done something like have an A. All along I have been able to say "yes, I had an A. Yes, this is what I did. Yes, it was wrong. Yes, I hurt my BW and my family." But I got stuck there. I stayed there too long. I am just now starting to let that behaviour go and I have since realized that I was still trying to find an out, not take full responsibility, find an excuse that involved someone or something else besides just me. Does this explain things any better?


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6061 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
ShockedandNumb
♀ Member
Member # 30151
Default  Posted: 10:07 PM, November 30th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

his failure to live up to himself. Unless your H is a serial philander, the truth may be that he had morals and values and a self-image that he has totally destroyed in the process of this affair.

Wow! Such a profound statement yet so simple...My WH is very hard on himself. His expectations are so high, no one could even get close to meeting them.
I believe he has a battle going on inside of himself. The Good, moral man that I know(hope I know)does exist in there.

I think maybe he has such high expectations of himself, he can't meet them, so he has to escape to a complete polar opposite life. One he can easily live up to. It wasn't hard to live up to OWs standards, as she too was a liar, cheat, etc... No pressure, no responsibility, no expectations, no judgment.

But it was him battling with himself, not me, so I just got caught in the crossfire of his own inner battles.

Than again, maybe I am way off base here..


D-Day#1-11/2005--me-8 weeks pregnant
D-Day#2 11/17/2010 same OW-LTA
BS(me)44
WS(him)42 yrs old.
4 daughters/19+ yr marriage
Nothing hurts more than realizing he meant everything to you, but you meant nothing to him....

Posts: 407 | Registered: Nov 2010
HUFI-PUFI
♂ Member
Member # 25460
Default  Posted: 9:57 AM, December 1st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ShockedandNumb - Such a profound statement yet so simple.

Sometimes the real answer is the simplest one of all. We were broken in some manner and we acted out the only way we could at the time it decided to come out. You were just collateral damage in one sense. Stupid how we couldnít see this beforehand. Stupid that all of this wisdom only came on the heels of so much pain and sorrow. Ah, perhaps in my next life, I can make up for it all.

On reflection, let me correct that, perhaps in this life, I will be able to reassure LF that my affair was more a reflection on my failure as a person than it was a reflection of the feelings that I have for her. And I also hope your H will one day be able to do the same. Good luck on your journey and I hope that your H can break free of the spiral of shame that he is in.

HUFI

For every lie I told her, I told two to myself Ė Unknown Poster.


Donít listen to your head, itís easily confused. Donít listen to your heart, its fickle. Listen to your soul, God doesn't steer you wrong.

Posts: 3219 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Azilda, Northern Ontario
mactruck
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Member # 29791
Default  Posted: 10:46 AM, December 1st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FmrLIer - How do I help him start to regain his self worth? I make sure I tell him how much I love him, just not what he did, and that he's a good husband/father otherwise I wouldn't be fighting for our marriage.

As a WS I agree with HUFFI and the others. I find myself at this cross path too.


How does one that had an external validation issue not seek that validation with the BS? This is part of the WS healing. You can encourage him by noticing and complementing on the things you like, but make sure he does not feed off of it.

I remind myself everyday that I don't need approval from others. If I'm doing the right things always then that's what matters for me. I have to heal and find my inner stregth and not rely on someone else to provide that for me.

My confidence is gone. My self-esteem is gone. My outgoing personality is gone. I have to rebuild that myself. Me alone.

Your WH needs to try and do the same. Whether it's through books or IC. He has to find his own inner stregth and self-worth. It comes back, it just takes time. The A can define you only if you let it.
I seek my validation by "Is this decision right or wrong?" If it's the right thing then that's all I need for now.

It's nice to see that a BS is wanting to reach out and even think about helping their WS rebuild their self-esteem. That's a huge step for you. When you have good days speak from your heart to him. He'll hear you and it'll stick with him. It might hurt him because it's a reminder of what he destroyed. But if he's remorseful then he will take those words to heart and guard them with his life!


There is no spell check. My typing is horrible... Therefore I apologize for errors.

I pray everyday for forgiveness.


Posts: 149 | Registered: Oct 2010
FmrLIer
♀ Member
Member # 29784
Default  Posted: 11:23 AM, December 1st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Baxter-Yes, that did clarify it. And, I think he may be in that place now too. Last night when I asked him if he was able to hold his head up for things that he's doing now to make things better, instead of answering he deflected and asked "do you think it's healthy to be living in my past instead of moving forward"...a big red flag for me. I explained that his past is my present and that if he wasn't willing to accept it as such then we were headed for a problem. He's at IC now so hopefully he'll bring it up on his own. If not we have MC tomorrow

It's nice to see that a BS is wanting to reach out and even think about helping their WS rebuild their self-esteem. That's a huge step for you. When you have good days speak from your heart to him. He'll hear you and it'll stick with him. It might hurt him because it's a reminder of what he destroyed. But if he's remorseful then he will take those words to heart and guard them with his life!

Thanks Mactruck - I know that what happened was a result of our marriage. It was dead. We were on the verge of D and my foot was already out the door. Does this excuse what he did? No, but it helps explain his actions. I know it's not my fault, but at the same time, I also know that our M was damaged and needed to be fixed...which is what we are doing now...together.

BTW - to all of you WS - I just want to say thank you to all of you again. It's nice knowing that I can ask a question of you guys and get an honest answer.


Me (BS)
Him (fSAH)
OA/PA

Ignorance was bliss but it wasn't the reality of my marriage...


Posts: 427 | Registered: Oct 2010
imagrownup
♀ Member
Member # 29587
Default  Posted: 8:17 AM, December 3rd (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok this is the question that stops me in my tracks when I think of R.
I have always been told- What looks like a duck-waddles like a duck and quacks like a duck- IS A DUCK
Why is someone telling someone they love them- risks everything- job, family,friends, wife. Spending every possible minute with them- NOT A DUCK.

I don't understand - we conveniently are calling this a fog.
However, that "duck" is what I walked down the aisle for.
How is my duck 23 years ago different than this duck now?


Me BW 48
HIM WS 48
D-DAY1 11/5/09
D-DAY 2 11/28/09
D-DAY 3 3/15/10 Claims just talking
D-DAY 4 5/?/10 Says he quit talking???

Posts: 184 | Registered: Sep 2010 | From: midwest
imagrownup
♀ Member
Member # 29587
Default  Posted: 8:26 AM, December 3rd (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To add above this sure feels like someone is staying because he may lose the pond he is swimming in- verses how much love he feels for her.

I was told by his OW that he told her several times that he stays for the kids-family etc. She told a friend of mine that he told her he will continue in this sad unhappy life for the kids.

Don't know but that does not sound like I have the duck anymore.


Me BW 48
HIM WS 48
D-DAY1 11/5/09
D-DAY 2 11/28/09
D-DAY 3 3/15/10 Claims just talking
D-DAY 4 5/?/10 Says he quit talking???

Posts: 184 | Registered: Sep 2010 | From: midwest
AttemptStrength
♀ Member
Member # 27947
Default  Posted: 8:55 AM, December 3rd (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question:

When a WS lies not only in words but actions (to cover up the lies) what path is there left to them to ever earn the trust of the BS back?


BS me
WS him x2 A's
1 autistic DS

I'd never have spent the money on a wedding dress if I knew I was just going to a costume party.


Posts: 1991 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: Wisconsin
ShockedandNumb
♀ Member
Member # 30151
Default  Posted: 11:28 AM, December 3rd (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

do you think it's healthy to be living in my past instead of moving forward"...a big red flag for me.

My WH said this a LOT to me and it pisses me off big time. Once again, you are guiding our marriage with your wonderful wisdom and choices trying to drive around the friggin elephant in the room.

Your not allowed to drive anymore! Move over...

[This message edited by ShockedandNumb at 11:29 AM, December 3rd (Friday)]


D-Day#1-11/2005--me-8 weeks pregnant
D-Day#2 11/17/2010 same OW-LTA
BS(me)44
WS(him)42 yrs old.
4 daughters/19+ yr marriage
Nothing hurts more than realizing he meant everything to you, but you meant nothing to him....

Posts: 407 | Registered: Nov 2010
HUFI-PUFI
♂ Member
Member # 25460
Default  Posted: 1:47 PM, December 3rd (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

AttemptStrength - When a WS lies not only in words but actions (to cover up the lies) what path is there left to them to ever earn the trust of the BS back?

The only path for a WS to earn trust is when the WS stops lying.

He has to stop lying to you and he has to stop lying to himself. Thatís the only path. Honesty is the root of trust. With continued lying, there can never be trust again.

For example, if you canít trust him to pick up the milk at the corner store without lying about who he talked to and what he did while he was there, then how can he ever hope for you to trust him with your heart again?

Itís that simple. No shades of grey and no cop outs. No minimizing. No little white lies. No lies of omission. No justifications that his lies are meant to protect you.
Nope, he has to stop lying; itís that plain and simple.

Nothing is acceptable but the truth and you can only have that when he stops lying!

HUFI

(edited for speling and oth er stuff like that!)

[This message edited by HUFI-PUFI at 1:53 PM, December 3rd (Friday)]


Donít listen to your head, itís easily confused. Donít listen to your heart, its fickle. Listen to your soul, God doesn't steer you wrong.

Posts: 3219 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Azilda, Northern Ontario
HUFI-PUFI
♂ Member
Member # 25460
Default  Posted: 2:07 PM, December 3rd (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


ShockedandNumb - Once again, you are guiding our marriage with your wonderful wisdom and choices trying to drive around the friggin elephant in the room. Your not allowed to drive anymore! Move over...


Slight t/j ... Your not allowed to drive anymore! Move over.

Okay, back to the serious stuff!

What is his desire to ignore the elephant based on?

While I think the first impression about not discussing the affair is merely that the WS wants to just sweep it under the carpet for selfish reasons, there can be other reasons why this might happen.

For some WSís, especially those that hold themselves to high standards and for those where the affair is the very abrupt departure from their usual nature, the need to deny and hide the affair can come from their shame.

According to some researchers, shame is one of the master emotions which binds and ties a whole lot of emotion and intellectual responses to itself. You can literally become trapped in a shame cycle where the conflict between self-image and reality is so traumatic, that you almost shut down all ability to cope with it head on. Itís not just an elephant in the room, itís the monster in your life and thatís hard to face up to.

If your husband has actually shown deep regret and remorse before hand and you suspect it could be a matter of being shame bound, it could be worthwhile to get the book Healing the shame that bind you by John Bradshaw for your H.

On the other hand, if itís just the usual WS cop out and desire to just not talk and do some rug sweeping, then you need to get strong and start the 180. Draw your lines and be firm that discussions on the affair will be on the agenda or else!

HUFI


Donít listen to your head, itís easily confused. Donít listen to your heart, its fickle. Listen to your soul, God doesn't steer you wrong.

Posts: 3219 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Azilda, Northern Ontario
uncertainone
♀ Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 2:20 PM, December 3rd (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was told by his OW that he told her several times that he stays for the kids-family etc. She told a friend of mine that he told her he will continue in this sad unhappy life for the kids.

imagrownup, she needs to completely be out of your life and your WS needs to take the bull by the horns to make sure this happens.

He should be sending out his resume and moving heaven and earth to get away from her as well as limiting his access until he can.

Don't know what his work is like, but is there any way he can approach HR confidentially and explain?

I've read your posts and she e-mails him constantly and you stated it's like you have to watch them break up all the time.

That has to stop and he needs to take the lead to get it to stop!!!! Only his actions and drive to make you feel safe again can even begin to ease your doubts and hurts.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
HUFI-PUFI
♂ Member
Member # 25460
Default  Posted: 3:29 PM, December 3rd (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Imagrownup - Ok this is the question that stops me in my tracks when I think of R.
I have always been told- What looks like a duck-waddles like a duck and quacks like a duck- IS A DUCK ...Why is someone telling someone they love them- risks everything- job, family,friends, wife. Spending every possible minute with them- NOT A DUCK....I don't understand - we conveniently are calling this a fog. However, that "duck" is what I walked down the aisle for.

Iím not sure what you are asking here. Are you trying to say that you feel ďonce a cheater, always a cheaterĒ applies to your H? Or are you wondering if his lying cheating actions during the affair mean that he still is a lying cheating scumbag now?

For a lot of people, the ďonce a cheater, always a cheaterĒ is a very sensitive topic.

Obviously, for some BS, itís not just an idea; itís a reality because their WS' were serial cheaters who have gone through false R time after time. I guess the ďonce burnt, twice shyĒ idea would be very hard to get over with under these circumstances unless you have the perfect WS!

For most WSís, that label of ďalways a cheaterĒ seems to define by the one mistake that we may have made in our lives. For many of us, this was and will forever be the only affair that we will ever experience as our journey of self-healing means that we are now affair proof.

Quite often, there comes a time where the BS who has not yet regained trust in their WS makes some comment about 'once a cheaterĒ and I can tell you from personal experience, this is like a knife to the soul. It throws everything back to day one and wipes away everything on self-growth and responsibly and self-esteem and healing in one fell swoop. Poof... it gets said in anger or spite and poof, my years of being a remorseful WS are wiped clean and I am back to merely being a two timing cheating bastard.

I can only say that the healing process of a WS is knocked back to zero when this accusation made.

Imagrownup - To add above this sure feels like someone is staying because he may lose the pond he is swimming in- verses how much love he feels for her. I was told by his OW that he told her several times that he stays for the kids-family etc. She told a friend of mine that he told her he will continue in this sad unhappy life for the kids. Don't know but that does not sound like I have the duck anymore.

Iím going to take a different approach to this question as compare to uncertainone. I donít deny that the workplace relationship between your H and the OW is not good. I know that he has found his ďhappy placeĒ with this company and I would also be loath to pull him away from this job but the hard decision has to be made.

If he canít find it within himself to see that he canít maintain NC here and that he needs to take the bull by the horns, then perhaps you have to make that choice for him. Make it a boundary. Lay it out clear and simple. Itís the job or the marriage. One or the other.

I truly can understand that he loves his job and doesnít want to quit and I can even understand that he may feel that the OW is not an issue but itís not the reality that fits in a post A life.

Out of curiosity, is he online and has he read much about the WS side of healing? Is he aware of NC and being proactive and being sensitive to his BSs needs? IF he is not a member here, could you invite him to join?

While some may argue that he's not actually stopped the affair effectively, I will give him the benefit of the doubt and hope that heís just being blind in one eye and blind in the other too.

In some of your posts, you indicate that he is doing everything in his power to show that he is a remorseful WS, someone who regrets his affair and who is committed to his marriage. What changed to make you worry again that your second best?

I would assume that you had this discussion in the early days of R and if you havenít, then perhaps you need to. You can read a lot of ďmotivesĒ into his actions but only he knows the reality of them. And unless you asked him to share, you may never know the reasoning behind his decision either.

I know that my wife, LF also fears that she is second best. I have commented to her time after time that I think that in another 30 years, she will feel foolish for doubting my commitment.

Yes, itís hard to trust him again after you caught in him in lies before but his actions are what count over the next decade or two. LOL

You have this statement by the OW that ďhe is only staying for the kidsĒ but consider the source. It was the OW and doesnít she have a vested interest in driving a stake through any trust that you might have. Wonít she lie to stir up the shit and perhaps break up the marriage? Yes, perhaps she might be telling the truth but the more likely reason for her statement is that she wants to stir up shit and if you are now questioning his motives, by golly, it worked!

So, do you think your husband wants to be trapped in an unhappy marriage to you just for the kids? What is he gaining from this? When all other things sound silly, perhaps the easiest answer is the right one. Have you ever considered that he dumped the OW and decided that he wants to work on his marriage because down deep, inside him, he really understands that you are his best choice? Ask him point blank about this. And if you still have niggling doubts, ask him to take a polygraph and ask him these questions again point blank. That should get you the truth that you need.

HUFI


Donít listen to your head, itís easily confused. Donít listen to your heart, its fickle. Listen to your soul, God doesn't steer you wrong.

Posts: 3219 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Azilda, Northern Ontario
Merlin
♂ Member
Member # 30221
Default  Posted: 3:38 PM, December 3rd (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When NC Is Permenant
To waywards (particularly WWs)

When her affair was revealed, we separated and she moved out, following a period of histrionics about how bad a husband I'd been and how she never loved me (24+ years married, 3 kids and what I thought was a strong marriage) and our ongoing (2+ year divorce.) We don't talk unless its about kids. Look, I own at least half of whatever was wrong with the marriage though none of her affair and the destruction on our marriage and family. There was never violence or even disrespect from me towards her. From my view, it was a good marriage.

Two + years on, she still has her bad boy lover who drives the car I still pay for. She lives in a two bedroom dump (with our three kids when they are not with me). Can there really be nothing to say after all this time, all this life and all we shared?

I do use NC as a way not to lose my mind. And I am open to her. But she won't ever deal with this I guess.

Is this typical? Can anyone help me understand how she can 'go dark'. Even our children find this difficult and strange.


"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself." D. H. Lawrence

Her: WW/56 Me: BS/62, 24yrs M
3 great kids, now 22, 20, 17 b,b,g
D-Day 8/14/08, D 1/13/11


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