Ws can you describe your healing journey/timeline.
And what did your BS so to help you heal.
What did you need in your life that lead you down that road?
Some will get it, some won't. some will see it eventually but it might be too late and the BS will have thrown in the towel by then. Each situation is unique.
Is the A mindset a form of temporary insanity (mania maybe?) or it is more an extreme manifestation of who they really are?
Your description of your WW made me think that my BW knew what she was getting when we M. You're the same way. You knew what you were getting in M your wife. She was probably pretty honest about all of that. She presented something to you, or you perceived something in her, that resulted in you wanting to marry her and she wanting to be married to you. I don't think that deception is an attribute or a premeditated characteristic in a WS in all cases.
In many cases, the WS has reached the end of their rope, and known no other way to cope other than to do what they did. It isn't just a manifestation of who they really are. It may just be that given a certain set of data (datum??), certain decisions are made.
Thank you for your response.
Does a WS have a hard time forgiving themselves?
Do most WS know they will never cheat again? I guess this is where complete honesty with themselves comes in.
I think if a WS is remorseful, then yes, self forgiveness is very hard. I think it is something we all struggle with. It can even be a hinderance to R if we begin to wallow in it.
As to your second question, I think this is entirely based on how honest the WS is with themselves on why they did it and fixing themselves. If this does not occur, then no matter how much they may not want to do it again, I feel they are still at risk of having it happen again.
I hope this answers your question.
How hard is it to work with the AP? What are things that got you thru it? What are you feelings about working with AP after the A ended?
I worked with the AP but not directly. It was still humiliating though. I did have times where I had to talk to him over the phone, but it was always work-related and very brief.
We fortunately had already planned on moving across the country, so I didn't have to work there but maybe a week or two after the A, I can't exactly remember. I honestly don't think I would have pulled my head out of my ass when I did if we stayed there.
I'm sure continuing to work there and then my H going thru all the stages, we would have probably S or even D. There was no way my H could have handled me working there any longer than I did and because I wasn't grasping his pain, still focused on myself and desperately needed a lesson in humility, I probably would have resented my H or would have tried to rush his healing or something like that. I know I wouldn't have understood.
I was still friends with my XBFF who helped me justify my A. She could have contacted him for me or vice versa, it would have just prolonged stuff and drug it out. The AP and I met in the hall once at work after my H found out about the A and specifically told me not to talk to the AP. But my "friend" told me I had left something at the APs house. I panicked and also thought I could somehow get some "closure". Nope. All that did was just sink me further in the hole and it was another deal breaker.
We also had lunch together after the A and I'm still trying to piece that together because I had forgotten about it ever happening and only remembered it recently with very little details because I buried so much stuff so quickly. I was probably just in the fog, not considering my H. Our M. His pain. Only me. That's the only conclusion I've been able to draw.
I'm not saying this is what's happening with your H, this is just purely from my experience. I know for us healing would have taken a lot longer and I would probably have more and more lies to untangle because I could have ran into him again sometime afterward, my XBFF could have tried to arrange another meeting, I'm making assumptions here, but, who knows?
Anyway, talking to or seeing the AP was painful. Very, very embarressing. I really don't think I would have had another A with him, but, I was breaking my Hs trust and lying and covering up and minimizing and blameshifting, etc.
I hope your WH doesn't do what I did. He needs to be honest with you. If he starts to trigger, or go thru relapses or something, the best thing for him to do would be to immediately tell you and see about getting a different job.
My question is: do you feel controlled by your BS? I ask this because control seems to be a recurring theme for WH. Whenever I mention anything that might sound like a criticism or a conflict it always goes back to control. And I always have to explain to him that I'm not trying to control him. Have you gotten over the initial reaction to think that everything is about control?
Beauty is a calling...a call "to transfigure what has harden or was wounded within you"
-- John O'Donohue
My question: if you choose to leave your BS for your AP, did you later try and return to your BS? If so, how long did it take for you to return? How did the BS react; did they forgive you and agree to R? Immediately, or did you have to wait it out a bit?
Also, what goes through your mind when you choose to leave your BS for your AP (am particularly interested in the experiences of those As that were short in duration before discovery or where there had been some physical distance between WS and the AP)? Are you really thinking that you are going off to live out a dream life, or do you feel that you have no choice, perhaps because you feel that your BS will never be able to forgive you?
My ex-WF has left for his AP, but during one of our early arguments after discovery/reveal, he told me that he could have begged and cried for me to forgive him, but that I wouldn't have....maybe he was right, but he didn't even try......
do you feel controlled by your BS?
No, but during the A I had convinced myself I was subservient to her.
I ended up having to do a good deal of work on my level of assertiveness during the post-A healing process. The strongest tool I found was "The Assertiveness Workbook" by Randy Paterson. It helped me to see that no one else really could control me, but that I made my own choices. If I chose to do what my BW asked without letting her know it bothered me, it was my choice - not her controlling me.
I still work on this daily. And I'm still not where I think I should probably end up. But understanding assertiveness is a huge key to taking the "control" card off the table.
how would the excitement of it change if you had done same exact thing except substitute OM/OW with BS?
While I understand your question, I don't think I can envision the situation you're suggesting even hypothetically. Because the A wasn't about certain actions. It was about how I saw myself through the eyes of others.
So we could have texted, IM'd, talked seductively over the phone...but none of that would have been the same as the A. The reason is a big piece of what I was going for was validation from the OP. Constantly being told that I was a good guy, that I did good things and that those who criticized me were out of their mind.
That can't happen with a spouse, because your spouse has to deal with reality. They have to deal with everything from money issues to bullying at school to a car going on the fritz. Most of all, they have to deal with all of their WS - the good and the bad. The OP doesn't have to face the bad side of the WS. It's nearly impossible for a BS to offer a steady stream of compliments to the WS even before the A, because we're going to do things that irritate each other in life.
I know it's probably not the response you're looking for, but it's how things were.
Your situation isn't my experience, but I wanted you to know you were heard.
Many of the WS's here are very remorseful. In fact, a requirement for us to be on the site is that we've ended the A and are working toward healing. So unfortunately I'm not sure there will be a match here on the WS side for someone who initially chose the AP over their BS.
I am doing NC and 180 on my ex - some days, I feel that I am glad to be rid of him, others, I still just want to grab him and shake him to try and make him see sense, or at least see beyond his own needs and interests. He is happily playing p/t daddy to our 2.5 year old, enjoying his freedom until OW moves here to be with him in July, at which point they will start their lives together.....in the meantime, I have gone from SAHM to working full-time, son in full-time daycare, house is up for sale (though ex has hinted that he could buy my share of the house - no doubt to move her in as lease on his rented runs out 1 month after she arrives). It is the sheer coldheartedness and worry-free abandonment that I dont get at times....
My H A was found out 18mos ago. He has never admitted to PA, but I know he;s afraid to tell me. There is no MC, he wont go. Just last week I had mad a post describing his behavior now. I suspected its not over. 90% of responses were huge red flags and YES sounds like he still in A. Now this week he has been great. He seems like he's back in again. This happens every 3 to 4 months, I will swear we are finished and be ready to move on, then he does a complete turn around.
I was thinking if maybe he is still in A and times hes good at home are times they r having problems. Maybe I am just crazytown now and he isnt having an A and is just an asshole sometimes. Input appreciated. Thank you!!
Would appreciate info from WS.When u were in A, were ther times it was hot then cold. I mean were there times u called it off to try and work things out with M, then go back.
Absolutely. I broke it off twice before the third time when it stuck.
The reason? I was addicted to the endorphins. Plus, he was completely available to me, so I took advantage of that. It had nothing to do with the state of my marriage. That was bad and remained bad.
NC was a godsend and I have never broken it. Ever.
[This message edited by Hope24 at 5:40 PM, April 28th (Thursday)]