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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS- Part 5
dzaster
♀ Member
Member # 30977
Default  Posted: 7:20 PM, February 25th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

dallas2 -

I bumped a thread for you in general on "why don't they just leave" that might be useful for you.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=396563

For OM in my situation, he told me he would never leave his BW because he said he was happy in his marriage other than with their sex. She took care of his kids, his business, and his home. She was his companion for 12 years and he needed that.

The reason I tell you about my OM is because in my case, during my A, I did tell my BH/WH that I was done (having told him this numerous times during our M prior to my A). I was done and ready to walk even knowing that OM would not ever leave his BW. (sorry for the t/j)

I am not sure if I answered your question correctly, but hopefully the thread I bumped will give you some insight as to why many WS feel they can stay in the M and that should be enough.

(((dallas2)))


Me - FBW/FWW 39, Him - FBH/FWH 40, DS - 16, DS - 13
His D-days: 2001, 2008, multiple 2011
My D-Day: 11/19/10
R-day: June 2011...going well
"Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end" - Semisonic

Posts: 201 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: California
Coma
♂ Member
Member # 29353
Default  Posted: 12:59 PM, February 26th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So Hello

I am a BS and would ask if there are any former WS that would be willing to share their thoughts. I am sorry for the designation but it is just to the point of what i am looking into.

I would like to ask about your feelings in general after the A.

I do not mean to make a difficult time of your experience but it is that experience that just may help me.


BS-Me
WW-Her
"Love, look what you've done to me"

Posts: 403 | Registered: Aug 2010
loss_of_faith
♀ New Member
Member # 31332
Default  Posted: 6:51 PM, February 26th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why does my WH get so angry and defisive when i ask about what happend.

Like I have no right to ask.

OR when i ask why is it over now and not all the other times?

He said he does not like talking about it. he is sick and tired of all the stress and just wants it to be over?

Any answer would be great? how can i ask the questions and get the answers without him getting angry?


Me 27
WH 28
Kids 4 and 2
DD 11/10
Married 7
Together 11

Posts: 17 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Salt Lake City
manAscending
♂ Member
Member # 26919
Default  Posted: 11:26 AM, February 27th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@Coma

I would like to ask about your feelings in general after the A.
My affair was a series of five one-night-stands. After the first time I cheated, I was petrified to bring it up with my wife because she had made it very clear earlier in our relationship that if I ever were to cheat, then our relationship would be over. So instead of talking about it, or seeking counselling, I buried it. I hoped that the incident would blow over and that we could go back to some sort of normalcy. Unfortunately, for various reasons I chose to cheat four more times over the course of roughly three years.

Two years ago, I confessed everything to my BW and we attempted to reconcile. She had forgiven me rather quickly for cheating, which surprised me. Then, about two months into our reconciliation, she became very angry.

My feelings at this time were all over the place. At times I was worried, anxious, frustrated, distraught, and lonely. At other times I was happy, relieved, and thankful. I did not, however, do a good job of showing my remorse. A big mistake that I made was to focus on rebuilding the marriage, and I didn't take the necessary time to focus on how to change and heal myself. My wife saw this, and requested an indefinite separation; now, divorce is almost certain. When she requested time alone, I was devastated. In hindsight, my wife was being strong and doing the right thing for herself--that's something I only came to appreciate after many sessions of IC. The best way to describe my feelings during our brief period of R is the common description of being on a roller coaster.

Having said that, these are simply _my_ feelings, and other WS in other situations will have experienced different emotions. If you wanted to be a bit more specific about how you're feeling or what is happening in your situation, we could give you replies that are better tailored to your needs. Please don't worry about inconveniencing or causing grief for the WS and fWS who frequent this section of SI. We're here to help you and answer any questions you have--it's specifically that for which this ICR thread is designated.


Posts: 1648 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Ontario
LisaBrandNew
♀ Member
Member # 30522
Default  Posted: 11:48 AM, February 27th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

mA - why didn't you show remorse? You said you felt intense feelings, like being distraught. Why were you unable to show these feelings to your BW? My WH shows no remorse and blames me and the marriage for his A. So many BSs say their WSs didn't show remorse until years later when it was too late. Why is it so hard for WSs to own their shit, feel remorse and work to heal themselves and the ones they have hurt?


Finally living the life I was meant to live.

Posts: 806 | Registered: Dec 2010
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 11:11 AM, February 28th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Advice, please, from WSs who avoided any self-reflection and/or post-A clean-up work. ETA: Sorry this is so wordy!

Brief background:
DDay #1 Jan. 2010. OW was co-worker. A and secret communication continued until 1 month after WH's last day at work (end of May 2010). DDay#2 Sept. 2010, with a timeline revealing the ramp-up to the actual start of the affair and continued contact. We are in MC, though WH says "we don't need it," "we need to focus on the positives in our M and move forward," "I'm not that man any more," etc. He has not done all the "homework" required by MC, has not finished either of the two infidelity books we purchased after DDay#1 (we've had them for a year or longer), has broached no topics intended to talk about his A or "deep thoughts" about himself, and in not in IC nor is he reading self-help books nor reading SI or any other infidelity websites... just generally has not done much in the way of self-reflection. His actions are focused upon having fun with me and being an active member of the household. Both good things, and necessary. But doing the feel-good stuff is not enough to make this a stronger M, to make me safe, to bring us closer together.

I have told him that I would like him to do these things. I have written that I would like him to do these things. I have tried very hard not to act like his mommy and force him to do these things.

Advice, please!:
I need WH to read the infidelity books and talk to me about what he has learned/thinks about them. I need WH to finish the "homework" from MC months ago. I need WH to dig deep in IC to figure out his problems. All of this, at a minimum, if we are to remain married. I have not given him an ultimatum (read or D, do your homework or D, etc.) but I have told him that I need for him to do these things.

I need him to REALLY DO THIS STUFF and not just check this stuff off his to-do list or suffer my consequences, KWIM?

So how do I go about this? I'm traveling at the end of March and am tempted to make our next MC appointment for the day I return and tell WH that I would like to go over the books and unfinished homework at that appointment and leave it at that.

If he doesn't do those things, then I think that tells me where his priorities are... and it's not with fixing the marriage.

I dunno... it's all I can come up with. Feedback? Advice? Help?

Thank you all for helping us BSs figure out the thought processes of the WH pre- and post-A. You can't begin to fathom how helpful it is!

[This message edited by ImNellNow at 1:31 PM, February 28th (Monday)]


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
HUFI-PUFI
♂ Member
Member # 25460
Default  Posted: 5:50 PM, February 28th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Coma - are there any former WS that would be willing to share their thoughts?

PM has been sent to you.


Donít listen to your head, itís easily confused. Donít listen to your heart, its fickle. Listen to your soul, God doesn't steer you wrong.

Posts: 3219 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Azilda, Northern Ontario
floridaredman
♂ Member
Member # 15122
Default  Posted: 7:29 AM, March 1st (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

loss_of_faith,

I am wary of a WS who doesn't want to talk about the affair. Means one of two things:

The affair is still ongoing

He is just ashamed and wants to avoid it

It is painful to look in the mirror and see what damage you have done to your family.

He is embarrassed and ashamed. he would rather forget it, but not dealing with it is the worse thing you can do.

Both you and he must talk about it so both of you can heal.

It nust be done constructively. Possibly with appointed times to talk about it.

His anger is not at you. It is at himself for doing it. He deflects his anger to you to get you to not talk about it.

But in order for this to be fully resolved. it has to be faced head on.


The simplest thing can be the hardest thing to do....FRM

Posts: 2412 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Florida
floridaredman
♂ Member
Member # 15122
Default  Posted: 7:38 AM, March 1st (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ImNellNow,

Unfortunately..there is no way to "make" your WH do these things...but you can offer consequences if he does not.

By not doing the required work..he is keepng your marriage in jeopardy.

You can't "rug sweep" affairs.
They have to be dealt with head on.

You have to be able to give consequences and be willing to follow through with an unremorseful and foggied WS.

True remorse let's you see things from the perspective a BS does. It attunes you to their feelings.

True remorse has almost unbearable pain and shame.

Your WH has to reach this.
You have told him what you need for you to get past that and he counters by saying he is not that man anymore.

Well ask him what kind of man is he now if he sees you needing help in healing by him doing the work..yet he won't do it.

That's not much of a difference if he is still hurting you and the marriage.


The simplest thing can be the hardest thing to do....FRM

Posts: 2412 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Florida
Fighting2Survive
♀ Member
Member # 28410
Default  Posted: 9:30 AM, March 1st (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I posted this in General, but I didn't get much of a response so I'm hoping for more insight here. As you read, please keep in mind that FWH passed the poly so I know that his A was an EA only. The other stuff though...

Thanks in advance for reading and for all your help. You guys have really given me a better understanding of FWH altogether.


I am having a lot of trouble understanding/processing one part of FWHís EA. I just canít let it go so Iím hoping that I can get some clarity by asking the wise SIíers out there for their opinions/guidance on this.
Before I ask the question, I need to give a recap of FWHís A so the question will make sense. We just did a poly so I know that the events happened as FWH has described them.

OW and FWH connected on FB in Dec. 2009. They quickly started sending multiple PMs back and forth daily. In Feb. 2010, he sent her the first of two gifts (nothing personal, but it a massive amount of beauty products that his company makes). After the gift, OW started including sexual references in their communications. They moved from just PMing to texting and emailing as well. In early March 2010, FWH left our home to go to GA to help his dad care for his mom (same town as where OW lives). The texting, etc. escalated rapidly (sometimes 30-40 texts in a day) and additional FB messaging and emails. They also started talking on the phone a lot, declaring their feelings for each other in their first phone conversation. As soon as FWH got to GA, he asked OW to meet him for lunch. She tried to switch it to a dinner date at her home, which he declined. She kept pressing him. During this time, they had two all night conversations. During the second conversation, she told him that she wanted to have sex with him. He told her that he was sexually attracted to her and that he ďwas having feelings that he should only have for his wife.Ē They continued to have conversations and to text, FB message, etc. for the next two weeks. OW continued to offer sex (even showing up at his parentsí house in the middle of night to offer herself on their front lawn). After FWH left GA to come home, they continued their contact right up until I was tipped off about the A. Looking only at the phone records (FWH deleted the emails and FB stuff), I can see that he initiated almost all the contact every day during the 3 week period he was in GA. He told me that OW didnít reply to him one day and how frustrated he got by her lack of response.

Now, hereís the issue: FWH insists (really insists) that he became disgusted with OW after that 2nd all night and was making moves to end it. He also insists that he no longer had any feelings of infatuation after that night. That makes no sense to me since I know that he did continue to pursue her after that conversation. Their texting increased. Plus, when he came home from his trip, he began talking to her on the phone while he was in our house. From where I sit, things were escalating- not cooling off the way he insists. On D-day, he lunged at me when I called her a whore- got in my face screaming that I had no right to talk about her like that. Two months later, he lovingly described what SHE looked like on our wedding day (which is why we will be re-taking our vows on any date other than April 18th this year). To say that he didnít have any growing feelings for her is beyond insane. Why else would he say and do those things?

Every time weíve tried to talk about this, we end up in a huge argument and FWH will eventually acknowledge that he did have feelings for her past D-day and that he wasnít actually trying to end it. Then a day or week later, he goes back to saying that he was ending it and didnít have feelings. Itís a never ending circle.

Heís doing everything in R that I could ask for, but this really upsets me. I donít know why he retreats to minimizing and denying what is very obvious. Iím scared that if he can do that with this situation, he will find a way to deny and minimize his way into another A.

Why does he do this and what should I do?


Me: BW, 40.......Him: FWH, 40
D-day: 3-22-10
DS1: 11, DS2: crawling
Status: R going well

"When you can tell the story and it doesn't bring up any pain, you know it is healed." - Iyanla Vanzant, Broken Pieces


Posts: 7279 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: NC
velveteer
♂ Member
Member # 30997
Default  Posted: 11:22 AM, March 1st (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a question for WWs out there.

My WW had an A and is struggling with the withdrawal. She says it is over and she has not had contact with him. Although I cannot be 100% sure, I am watching.

Last week she told me she made a bid step forward and was v. upset and apologetic to me etc and says she sees things differently. However, this wweek she is back to being a bit more cold and distant and I am back on the 180. I know she is pining for OM.

How do I handle this situation? Shen she starts to show some signs of remorse she reaches out to me for support. I'm not sure I want to give her any, but find it hard not to sometimes, and when I have it seems to help things. It also seesm to help her when i talk about my own experiences honestly and openly (I had an A in a previous relationship and found it to be a devastating experience, never to be repeated).

Things are difficult right now - she is in IC, but not ready for MC, an she is still very self centered.

What role did BS play in helping you to get over OP?


Divorced

Posts: 854 | Registered: Jan 2011
thundersdad78
♂ Member
Member # 30260
Default  Posted: 11:59 AM, March 1st (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My FWW ended her 5 month PA immediately with MOM when I found out. She didnt appear to have any fog and almost 4 months later, I have yet to get any major TT. She quit her job on dday where MOM worked. She said that she didn't miss him in any way afterwards because all she could think about was what it took to keep me and fix us. I have 2 questions :

Have any WS been involved in such an intense PA and been able to end it on dday with no TT or fog? It seems so uncommon.

We have a (then 9 month old) son. MOM had children also. Although I can accept rationalizing the A due to marriage problems, how were you able to rationalize the A when small children were involved? This is such a hard thing for me to understand. Did you ever really focus on the impact on the children? My W was always such a great mother and is so in love with our DS. I even sent her pictures on her phone of him while she was with OM. If there was anything to knock some sense into a WS wouldn't this be it?

Thank you


"Happiness depends upon ourselves." - Aristotle

Posts: 1132 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: thundersdad78
dzaster
♀ Member
Member # 30977
Default  Posted: 5:19 PM, March 1st (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

velveteer -

Your D-day is a couple of months after mine, and I can say that at the point in time where your WW is at, I was still in severe withdrawal for the OM and the A.

As much as I hate to admit it, for the first 6 weeks or so, I was inconsolable. I felt like everything inside me had been torn apart. I cried and cried and mourned what I thought I lost. I was so deep in the fog that I kept pushing my BH/WH away, then drawing him back when he wandered too far.

He says that I treated him like a yo-yo. As you can see from my signature, I pushed him so far, he was convinced that I was never coming back to him and he started dating another woman (while we were still married and living together, but another story entirely...)

However, my BH/WH was there for me as a friend...even to the point where he held me while I cried for another man. He knew that I needed to talk about the entire A, sparing no details, which was devastating to him. I would not have come through such a dark period without him.

Anyway, right around the 2 month mark the withdrawal began to ease up. We are almost 4 months out now, and although I definitely do still think of OM and OM's BW everyday(it was a double betrayal situation), each day gets a little bit easier.

I don't think of OM the same way I did a couple of months ago. With time and distance there is clarity about who he was, what needs I was fulfilling within myself, and what the A really looked like.

I am still working toward indifference, but that takes time...she will get there, too. There's just no set timetable unfortunately. IC would help tremendously, if she's not already doing it, I would highly recommend it.

I hope the best for you and your WW.

edited for spelling

[This message edited by dzaster at 5:24 PM, March 1st (Tuesday)]


Me - FBW/FWW 39, Him - FBH/FWH 40, DS - 16, DS - 13
His D-days: 2001, 2008, multiple 2011
My D-Day: 11/19/10
R-day: June 2011...going well
"Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end" - Semisonic

Posts: 201 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: California
Heartbroken1993
♀ Member
Member # 27887
Frustrated  Posted: 11:20 AM, March 2nd (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can a WS be in limbo in regards to intent and actions?

It seems my WS is having a hard time doing the things I need him to do for R.

It seems like a half harted efforts and I'm tired of it.

He says that he wants to change for himself but I just don't see that.

I learned enough to know that I can't make him do anything that he isnt willing to do.

It seems that the intent is there and I can tell he is sincere about the intent but his execution and actions just don't match up.

I don't know if he's just stuck and doesn't know what to do or if he just doesn't want to do it.

My mind set is that if he truely wanted to do this for himself that he would do it and if he is doing it to pacify me that may be what the hold up is.

Any insight is welcomed


WS-Him 36 (2 PA's)IamsosorryHB1993 (IASS)
BS-Me 36
Married 11yrs, together 20yrs. HS Sweethearts & Onlies
DD 5yrs
DS 3yrs
Getting Better

Posts: 1200 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: OH
floridaredman
♂ Member
Member # 15122
Default  Posted: 12:42 PM, March 2nd (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thundersdad78,

Being a WS requires doing compartmentalization and lots of irrational thinking.

A WS deep in the fog and affair has compartmentalized their family in one box and the affair in another.

when you would send her pics of your son..she would see it and place it in the family compartment box immediately to continue doing what she was doing with OM. It was all about her..not you or your son at that time. The time she spent with OM was "their time" and nothing could fit in that box but her and him. Once she left his presence..it was back to family.

Once she was found out and those worlds collided..her rational mind immediately knew what she wanted and she destroyed that compartmentalization box she had with OM in her mind.

An affair is fantasy..escape for the most part. Once the real world hits it..it's true ugly nature gets exposed. Your wife now sees it for what it was, but while engrossed in it..she couldn't see past her own irrationalization and compartmentalization.


The simplest thing can be the hardest thing to do....FRM

Posts: 2412 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Florida
suckstobeme
♀ Member
Member # 30853
Default  Posted: 1:11 PM, March 2nd (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What impact, if any, did being served with D papers have on you as a WS? I wonder. Will he be happy; will he be relieved; will he even notice? He's been out of the house since mid-October. We rarely converse. Just texts and emails about the kids. Once in a while he will give me a little more communication, as if inviting me to ask a question or start a conversation, but I won't. I can't let myself be friendly with him - that would only hurt me and relieve some of what is probably a lot of guilt on his part.

My lawyer called me today and said that she intends to serve him before the weekend. I NEVER thought it would come to this, but I really didn't have a choice. I'm married to a virtual stranger right now who acts like I don't matter and the family that we created doesn't matter. Maybe I already answered my own question, but does seeing it on paper ever hit home? I know it's killing me.


BW - me
ExWH - "that one"
D - 2011
You get what you put in, and people get what they deserve.
Hard as it may be, try to never give the OP any of your power or head space.

Posts: 2508 | Registered: Jan 2011
thundersdad78
♂ Member
Member # 30260
Default  Posted: 1:30 PM, March 2nd (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FRM,
Thank you for your answer. I guess that's what I surmised too, it is just such hard concept to grasp. I understand the concept of compartmentalization, but in my head I think : how is it possible to really "forget " your DS at any point? How does one go months on end and not merge the two compartments by saying "yes, I have a DS who needs me, I'm having an A that could destroy his future, I need to end the A yesterday to save DS. " Like I said I understand the concept of compartmentalization but don't get the truth of it. Thanks again so much for your insight.


"Happiness depends upon ourselves." - Aristotle

Posts: 1132 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: thundersdad78
Dallas2
♀ Member
Member # 28362
Default  Posted: 6:40 PM, March 2nd (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dzaster- Thanks for the bump. It's taken a few days to read them. Maybe I'm not asking it right. How do they live with themselves? I was wondering if they really think they don't act different after an A. How does somebody ever trust a fws who lied about it and probably other things for years


Me

Posts: 799 | Registered: Apr 2010
floridaredman
♂ Member
Member # 15122
Default  Posted: 9:34 PM, March 2nd (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thundersdas78,

How does one go months on end and not merge the two compartments

They won't merge them until they are forced two.

One way is by the affair being revealed or their mind gets tired of the compartmentalization.

Some people have gone many many years..some have taken it to their graves.
The ones that took it to their graves I can guarantee led a stressful and worrisome life. Maybe not outwardly showing it..but inside there was a battle raging on.


The simplest thing can be the hardest thing to do....FRM

Posts: 2412 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Florida
velveteer
♂ Member
Member # 30997
Default  Posted: 8:18 AM, March 3rd (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

dzaster

Thanks for the response - there is some encouragement here. WW is in IC and talking to mutual friends who also report positive, if slow, progress.

I guess its just time then. I fell apart yesterday and it was her turn to hold me up, which she did, up to a point until she went back to telling me all about how hard it was for her!!!

I keep telling myself this will get better in time.


Divorced

Posts: 854 | Registered: Jan 2011
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