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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS- Part 5
Trying2Survive2
♀ Member
Member # 25758
Default  Posted: 8:33 PM, February 19th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Even as I wrote to the AP expressing my love, I would do the same to my wife. Yes, itís not a pretty picture but itís the truth. I did love my wife even as I was cheating on her. In my wifeís eyes, the affair proves that I was not in love however, at some level or the other, I still was in love. I was just lost.

Huffi:
I so admire your BRUTE honesty...
It's really refreshing..
Thanks for that.


Faithful Wife ME 52
FWH 47
DDAY #1 1/11/09 EA Online ONLY (NC)
DDAY #2 6/2010 Admitted PA with the same PIG(12/08)
"Anything may be betrayed, anyone may be forgiven, but not those who lack the courage of their own greatness"

Posts: 1376 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: USA
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 9:47 PM, February 19th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Feeling Consumed,

It is him not willing to make the decision. He is trying to get you to make the decision for him.

Now, I did the same shit to my BW. She wouldn't make that decision, wouldn't let me off the hook. We stayed in limbo for a long time while I kept the EA alive in my head for a long time. Then my BW finally changed her perspective, started taking care of herself and decided that in order to take care of herself she would be the one to move out and leave me with the kids. That woke me up real fast.

Knock is ass off the fence.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6047 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
manAscending
♂ Member
Member # 26919
Default  Posted: 5:58 PM, February 20th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@Feeling Consumed

I am confused because he said he "doesn't think we can reconcile - at least not for a long time". If he had put a period at the end of reconcile, I would get it. But he added the "at least not for a long time". Why? This is wishy-washy and non-committed. Is it a no, or is it a yes he wants to reconcile at sometime? Any ideas?
While it may be, like BaxtersBFF suggested, that your husband is sitting on the fence and afraid to commit to reconciliation, there's also the possibility that the response your husband gave you is one that is meant to communicate shame. At times when it is most necessary for us to be deliberate with what we say, sometimes the feelings meant to be shared are unfortunatedly hidden behind a poor use of words. So, yes, his answer is both wishy-washy and non-committed--it certainly comes across that way. And his answer is safe, it's putting the ball back in your court; however, it doesn't necessarily mean that he's trying to keep his options open with the OW and fence-sit.

When I was in the very beginning of my R, I carried shame with me in all of my actions. There was a time of about two months that it took for me to move from feeling shame to feeling like any of my actions were meaningful to R. It wasn't a time of wallowing, but rather a time where I meekly looked for acceptance. Of course, that soon after d-day is almost certainly too early for a WS to find acceptance in the eyes of his or her BS, but the need for acceptance is a human one and I needed to know that on some level we would take the next step forward, however tentatively, together.

The way I read your husband adding the words "at least not for a long time" is that he's acknowledging that he's hurt you deeply and that he understands that healing and forgiveness, if possible, will take a time. Is your husband remorseful or not? His words say yes, but that he's still talking with OW says no. I'd urge you to examine if the former could be the case that he's simply using his words poorly to communicate something that he means on a deeper level. If it's safe and appropriate, perhaps just asking him what he meant might begin a deeper conversation where he could clarify himself.

And maybe BaxtersBFF is right. Maybe he is fence-sitting, maybe he is still in the fog and has not yet "owned his shit," as we like to say around here. Maybe the whole go-find-someone-who-can-make-you-happier-than-I-ever-could thing is dismissive of his own actions that he could take toward repairing your marriage. That attitude is not helpful in the least. And it certainly is entirely unacceptable that he is still in contact with the OW. From that fact alone, what BaxtersBFF recommended--knocking his ass off the fence--makes sense.

Use your best judgment and don't rush into things. If your husband is fence-sitting, I hope that you do get an answer out of him. If his wording is simply a poor way of conveying shame, though, I hope that further conversation could show him a glimmer of acceptance (if R is what you desire) and that, if his actions warrant the change, you could eventually start talking about what post-separation might look like.

Edited to add the name of the member asking the question.

[This message edited by manAscending at 10:19 PM, February 20th (Sunday)]


Posts: 1648 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Ontario
suckstobeme
♀ Member
Member # 30853
Default  Posted: 3:41 PM, February 21st (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Did any of you leave your BS and come back? If so, how long did it take and what made you want to go back? Were you afraid to approach your BS if he/she was in an NC/180 mode? My head seems to understand a lot of this mindset, but my heart has not caught up. ... not by a long-shot.


BW - me
ExWH - "that one"
D - 2011
You get what you put in, and people get what they deserve.
Hard as it may be, try to never give the OP any of your power or head space.

Posts: 2504 | Registered: Jan 2011
floridaredman
♂ Member
Member # 15122
Default  Posted: 7:34 AM, February 23rd (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

suckstobeme,

I left my BS to be with the OW and came back after a year.
I found out that the grass is not greener on the other side. You don't know what kind of crap they use to make it look so green. It turned out to be just that..crap.

I found out that the OWas mentally unstable. She could be quite cruel after the facade of her being a "sweet person" was stripped away.

I realize that I had made a mistake about a month in, but was too prideful to admit it.
The final nail was when I found out she was being unfaithful to me

I realized the devastation I had caused my family and decided I wanted to go home.

I called my wife and apologized to her and told her I realized what I did to her and I was very sorry. i told her I wanted to come home but I understood if she did not want me back.

She said that she would like for me to come home, but I had a lot of work to do..to which I agreed.
The OW tried like crazy to get me back once she realized I was done and going back to my wife. I resisted. half-heartedly at first, but once I got home I began to commit to my wife and kids.

I had a relapse the first week and called the OW (stupid I know). My wife found out (because the OW called) and told me to make a choice right then and there. I chose her and never spoke to the OW again..that was 9 years ago.
The OW called and called until we changed our number. haven't heard from her since.
When she did call I would never answer. She would call like 1 am or 3 am.

I wasn't afraid to call my wife to ask to come back home. I was willing to take whatever she said..but I at least wanted to apologize if nothing else.


The simplest thing can be the hardest thing to do....FRM

Posts: 2412 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Florida
suckstobeme
♀ Member
Member # 30853
Default  Posted: 12:53 PM, February 23rd (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Floridaredman:

Thank you so much for your reply.

I have no idea what my WH is thinking at this point. Don't know if he's still seeing her, don't know how he's feeling about being out of the house since mid-October and living with nothing in a one bedroom apt.

You did hit it on the head in terms of being too proud to go back to your wife so soon after. That's more of what i meant to say rather than afraid. I think that my WH is very prideful. His brother actually told me that, throughout their relationship, my H would say and do things that he knew were wrong, but he would stick to his position like grim death. It would only be after a long period of time that he would even admit that he knew he was probably wrong, but wasn't going to say so. That seems to be part of his personality - very stubborn and unwilling to admit his own wrongdoing.

Can you give me some insight as to how your BS felt during all of this? Also, did she pull the 180/NC on you? If so, how did that impact you?

Of course, when it all started, I was a stark raving lunatic. I had no idea what was going on and could not believe that he actually had thoughts of leaving us (me and our two small children). Then, once I figured out that there was another person in the mix, I did the 180/NC and have only fallen off the wagon a few times.

I often wonder what that does to him emotionally and mentally, if anything. He was so dismissive with me before he left; like he wanted me to just disappear and he wanted to run. At the same time, though, he continued to say that he felt we would always be close and could be friends because of the kids. I believe I am showing him that he's wrong about that. Can you provide any more insight on that issue?

It's so very helpful to have the WS perspective since, I think, it's the closest thing to a crystal ball that any of us has. It's very hard for me to grasp the mindset.


BW - me
ExWH - "that one"
D - 2011
You get what you put in, and people get what they deserve.
Hard as it may be, try to never give the OP any of your power or head space.

Posts: 2504 | Registered: Jan 2011
nooneeverthought
♀ Member
Member # 20157
Default  Posted: 1:14 PM, February 23rd (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi guys, Not sure how many of you are travelling up in general so I am going to ask from your point of view.

R is fantastic, life is great. Really is. Long story and party A related, we are listing our house in May. The rental complex I want (dining, shopping, theater, etc) is literally a few blocks from where FOW lives now. I did some investigation and found out her current address.

H has no idea where she lives, just somewhere around here. If we decide to move to this complex should I tell him I know exactly where she lives? NC has been firmly in place for over 2 years and he has a new job so no common people in their lives.

If I decide not to because of her location I will definitely tell him then.


it doesn't matter where you go in life ,it's who you have the beside you

Posts: 8493 | Registered: Jul 2008
floridaredman
♂ Member
Member # 15122
Default  Posted: 1:25 PM, February 23rd (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can you give me some insight as to how your BS felt during all of this? Also, did she pull the 180/NC on you? If so, how did that impact you?

My wife did not have any contact with me except for when the kids needed something. I was in the fog then and did not want contact with her. I had vilified her in my mind. Gradually I started to miss her. Your WH is letting his pride be his guide. I missed my kids terribly when I was gone, but it was a consequence of my own actions.
Your WH KNOWS he is wrong. he thinks that he will be ok in his "new life". That he will have it better.
Odds are that it will turn out not as he expected.
The best thing you can do is do the 180, but be pleasant when you speak to him. You can be short..but pleasant. His image of you will change because if he has vilified you..your mature attitude will start to wear away his armor.
I can't tell you what he is thinking, but I can tell you that he does think about you and his kids. His pride will keep him at bay, but eventually pride runs out.

It is up to you to decide how long you want to give him to turn back to your marriage. You have a life too.
I know now that he is living in fog and fog can make the wrong thing seem right.

My wife felt like I had decided to leave the marriage and she had accepted that. She was ready to move on herself, but she said that she always loved and always will. It was that love that gave me the courage to call her for another chance.


The simplest thing can be the hardest thing to do....FRM

Posts: 2412 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Florida
floridaredman
♂ Member
Member # 15122
Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, February 23rd (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nooneeverthought,
It would be very, very unwise to move anywhere within 100 miles of a Former Affair Partner. To much risk for her to find him or he to find her and rekindle the affair all over again.

That's like putting a crack pipe in front of a recovering crack addict.


The simplest thing can be the hardest thing to do....FRM

Posts: 2412 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Florida
nooneeverthought
♀ Member
Member # 20157
Default  Posted: 2:35 PM, February 23rd (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nooneeverthought,
It would be very, very unwise to move anywhere within 100 miles of a Former Affair Partner. To much risk for her to find him or he to find her and rekindle the affair all over again.

That's like putting a crack pipe in front of a recovering crack addict.

3 years ago I totally would have agreed and been in complete panic mode. He was definitely a foggy little bugger when R started and would never have chanced that.

We are in MC and he is in no way pining for her. He is long into the indifference stage and sees her and the A for what it really was.

We will live close no matter what, in fact we already do and have the whole time. I guess I am just wondering if I should tell him the street she is on now. He already knows she is in town.

This move would put us closer street wise but not town wise. Am I making sense?


it doesn't matter where you go in life ,it's who you have the beside you

Posts: 8493 | Registered: Jul 2008
floridaredman
♂ Member
Member # 15122
Default  Posted: 5:36 PM, February 23rd (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This move would put us closer street wise but not town wise. Am I making sense?

Yes you are making sense. I still think it is not prudent. Indifference can become curiosity if tempted.


The simplest thing can be the hardest thing to do....FRM

Posts: 2412 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Florida
suckstobeme
♀ Member
Member # 30853
Default  Posted: 6:20 PM, February 23rd (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Floridaredman:

Thank you for that. I guess I'm doing what I'm supposed to - NC/180 only making contact when it involves kids or finances. I'm not nasty or bitchy; I never keep the kids from him and never bad mouth him to the kids. They are still little and deserve to be happy and healthy, regardless of the poor decision making of their dad.

But, I don't engage. It seems like sometimes he tries to get me to engage, i.e., when he gets in touch he says a little more than is necessary. It's not much to be anything meaningful, but it's not as short as my communication.

The fact that you admitted that you villified your wife is very helpful. That seems to be what he did. It was like I was the cheater. He reached back 12, 13, 14 years to find things to claim were responsible for the demise of his feelings, when that was all news to me. None of these issues ever came up beforehand.

Every time I tried to voice my opinion and explain my position, he would say "i'm not going to debate this with you." It was like I never had a chance with the fog hanging around. He still has not admitted that the A started before he moved and/or was a factor in his decision to leave. He's just running away right now and I don't know if he'll ever be brave enough to look himself in the mirror.

Maybe some day; maybe not.


BW - me
ExWH - "that one"
D - 2011
You get what you put in, and people get what they deserve.
Hard as it may be, try to never give the OP any of your power or head space.

Posts: 2504 | Registered: Jan 2011
floridaredman
♂ Member
Member # 15122
Default  Posted: 9:43 PM, February 23rd (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He's just running away right now and I don't know if he'll ever be brave enough to look himself in the mirror.

Maybe some day; maybe not.

suckstobeme,
The world has many mirrors. It is only a matter of time before we actually see ourselves in one of them.
His engaging you is a sign that he misses you.

You are doing the right things..so continue


The simplest thing can be the hardest thing to do....FRM

Posts: 2412 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Florida
nooneeverthought
♀ Member
Member # 20157
Default  Posted: 8:42 AM, February 24th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Indifference can become curiosity if tempted.

FRM, Thanks so much. I didn't give this part of it a thought. Definitely need to process this a bit since my H is one who left us for his OW.


it doesn't matter where you go in life ,it's who you have the beside you

Posts: 8493 | Registered: Jul 2008
sanity
♀ Member
Member # 31281
Default  Posted: 9:33 AM, February 24th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi. BS here. I would like to get some feedback from some of you WS's. My DDay was in Nov 2010. There have been alot of lies and coverups since then. My H was involved mainly in an EA although there was some physical aspects involved (mainly kissing). I feel that he does truly want us to heal. My dilema is that he really isn't taking the lead on us healing. He goes along with what I come up with (reading, MC etc...) but I feel that if I don't initiate things the issues would get set aside. I know that he is uncomfortable with certain questions and that he wishes this could all go away but the sad fact is that this is now a part of our life together. Any tips or words of wisdom?
[This message edited by sanity at 9:19 AM, February 24th (Thursday)]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
me 48yrs
WH 49yrs
Married 22yrs
1 pre teen son
DDay Nov 5 2010


Me 50, WH 50 - 1 teen son - Brief EA '89, #2 EA/PA - Ran over 4yrs. DD Nov '10. He fell in love. Huge need for admiration more than anything else. It's not the trek to the top of the mountain that stops you. It's the pebble in your shoe.

Posts: 118 | Registered: Feb 2011
hopelessromantic
♀ Member
Member # 25415
Default  Posted: 7:04 PM, February 24th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Any WS's have an A due to feeling undesirable or feeling like they weren't good enough for their BS? A part of me can understand the dynamic of how he was feeling about himself being overweight and not worth a crap to me because of his surgery. But I thought that feeling would be temporary. I can even understand (even tho it's totally wrong) why someone has sex with someone if they're not getting it at home. But that wasn't our case, my husband could have sex with me anytime he wanted - I loved making love to my husband. So when I asked him why did he take her up on her offer to have sex, he said it was to prove to himself, the guys, whoever, that he was desirable, that he could still please someone because he didn't feel like he could please me anymore because of his weight and his back.

He claims that there was one time we were intimate and I had got a cramp in my hip afterwards and asked if he hurt me and I simply said I had a cramp in my hip and he totally took that as it hurt to make love to him because he was "too big". That and he didn't want me touching his "fat". I didn't see my H the way he saw himself, it never bothered me, but he is bigger and I'm a petite person and so sometimes it was difficult but not impossible. I guess I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around the undesirable reason for the A. I told him tonite I think I will always be angry that he had sex with someone else simply because he could have gotten it at home any time he wanted - he said it wasn't about that. Can anyone relate?


BS-Me FWS-him (bigdog)
D-Day 5/3/09 TT til 6/22/09
Behind every woman scorned is a man who made her that way.

Posts: 2836 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Midwest
Dallas2
♀ Member
Member # 28362
Default  Posted: 5:30 PM, February 25th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My FWH has a STA about 8 years ago. He has our MC convinced it was because he thought I was going to die. He said it was a mutual fling for both partners. My problem is I was out of town at the time and my gut just knew. However, I could not prove it anyhow or anyway. When I asked him directly he lied and lied again for years. We are trying to work on things but I am extreme difficulty in understanding the why? I don't wonder why he had the A. He just justifies his behavior. What I can't understand is WHY? he stayed, why he kept lying, why he thinks just by staying in the M it's enough? Can a WS empathise with a BS and try to answer these questions? I can't go on blind faith and I don't get answers from him so would appreciate any insight into this problem.


Me

Posts: 791 | Registered: Apr 2010
nlovemyfamily
♀ Member
Member # 15258
Default  Posted: 6:36 PM, February 25th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My XWH says "he walked away from me and not our kids". Does this perspective change when one has been NC with AP and has more clarity? Will he always need to tell himself this in order to deal with the ugliness or will he someday realize he walked away from family when he continued A and followed thru with D?

Posts: 415 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: nj
NewBeginning2010
♀ Member
Member # 30307
Default  Posted: 6:49 PM, February 25th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nlovemyfamily:

I am going to send you a PM.


NB


My signature is something I can't describe. Somehow, some day, with the help of my SI friends...I will hopefully make it to the other side.

Posts: 629 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: The Nation's Capitol
dzaster
♀ Member
Member # 30977
Default  Posted: 7:05 PM, February 25th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hopelessromantic -

I can relate to what your H has said about his size. I was 60 lbs lighter when my H and I first started dating and at the time he said, "I am never going to be married to a fat chick". So after having 2 kids and 60 lbs later, I felt COMPLETELY self conscious in front of my H.

My H also is a fan of porn, and subscribes to Playboy and Maxim. He never understood why this upset me. I tried to explain that it upsets me because I see the type of women he likes to look at and I am not that woman.

There are a million other factors that played into my self esteem and M issues (see profile), but over the years I felt like I would never be desirable to any man because I am now "fat". (which is relative I know, I am 5'6" and wear a size 14, which I understand is average for American women).

There is NO justification in the world for what I did, but having OM pay attention to me and find me desirable and to have him tell me that I was beautiful and would be whether I gained weight or lost weight was hugely intoxicating.

I think that needing external validation and wanting to be desired can play into an A for people like myself who have severe self esteem issues.

However, there are far deeper issues that allow a person to enter into an A. An emotionally healthy person would be flattered by the attention and set their boundaries and not enter into an A in such a situation, where an emotionally unhealthy person (like me) chose the A.

Your H really needs to focus on what internally caused him to allow himself to enter into an A, and that has nothing to do with his weight.

(((hopelessromantic)))


Me - FBW/FWW 39, Him - FBH/FWH 40, DS - 16, DS - 13
His D-days: 2001, 2008, multiple 2011
My D-Day: 11/19/10
R-day: June 2011...going well
"Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end" - Semisonic

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