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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS- Part 5
onlysolution
♀ Member
Member # 23160
Default  Posted: 12:22 PM, December 15th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a question for WW's...
I was wondering if any WW every apologized or felt remorseful to the MOM's BW?

Yes, very, before affair, during affair, and after. I sent an apology a couple months post dday. She had been a friend of mine. I don't know if the apology helped or not, but I felt it necessary.

As a WS, what makes you want to keep your AP as a friend? Why, after being found out, would you continue to risk hurting your BS again by trying to remain friends with your AP? Along with accepting you responsibility in the A,if your AP knew you were married, did you still defend their involvement?

This is hard to explain. I know from experience and from everything I read that to keep this friendship is impossible, but it does not stop the underlying desire for this. In my case the connection and friendship came before the affair and was much bigger than the affair itself. It is very hard to have a closeness with someone for a number of years and then have it end. I did defend the AP only as far as saying he his behavior was no worse than mine or no more to blame than I was. We were both married, both knew the other's spouse. We were equally to blame. I also realize that I behaved unlike myself and did things that I never believed I would do, so most likely he did as well.


FWW: Me 52
BH: 54
Married 34 years
Recovery - Over 4 years

Posts: 448 | Registered: Mar 2009
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 4:55 PM, December 15th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fighting2Survive,

Did any of you "backslide" in your thinking after D-day and start revising the A's history so that it was more benign? If you did, why did you do that?
GG might answer this differently than me, as I was pretty out of it mentally when it all happened and since. But I think that I didn't. I defended OW. That's now changing. But I didn't rewrite the events. I do remember saying things like "I have nothing waiting for me if we D" or "There are no guarantees" but deep down I was hoping (and believed) that I was wrong and just telling BW what I thought might convince her that I wasn't wanting a D for OW. That's part of the triage that I did to try to make sense of what I had done.

I know better now, but there it is.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
mactruck
♀ Member
Member # 29791
Default  Posted: 8:07 AM, December 16th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Did any of you "backslide" in your thinking after D-day and start revising the A's history so that it was more benign? If you did, why did you do that?

I think this might be more defined as coming out of the fog.

I thought the OM was a good man. I know now he is not.

I thought we had great conversations. I know now that we really didn't talk about anything of substance.

I thought we had good/great sex. I know now that we did not. I think he needed a purple pill. And I never received "pleasure".

But I thought these things immediatly following dday. Now since the bubble has burst and I I see if for what it truly was I feel differently. I rememeber these events as they really were and not what I pretneded them to be.

I guess I rewrote the A as it was happening. But after dday and months to follow I got out of the fog and saw how it really was.


There is no spell check. My typing is horrible... Therefore I apologize for errors.

I pray everyday for forgiveness.


Posts: 149 | Registered: Oct 2010
Fighting2Survive
♀ Member
Member # 28410
Default  Posted: 1:52 PM, December 16th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks, BFF & mactruck. I guess FWH's experience isn't that common. At 4 months, he was out of the fog and spilling everything. He was hugely remorseful. Now, he seems to be rescinding some of his statements. It's gone from "we talked about how much we cared for each other, and we said we had sexual feelings. We talked about wanting to explore those" to "we never talked about sex." If it weren't for the fact that I have that first statement in writing from him, I'd think I'd lost my mind. This far out, I don't understand the minimization and gaslighting.

He's back at the IC today. He took the MMPI last week and the IC wants to have a talk session last week. I asked him to bring up his desire to minimize. The response I got was, "desire to minimize?" like I was speaking Greek.


Me: BW, 40.......Him: FWH, 40
D-day: 3-22-10
DS1: 11, DS2: crawling
Status: R going well

"When you can tell the story and it doesn't bring up any pain, you know it is healed." - Iyanla Vanzant, Broken Pieces


Posts: 7279 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: NC
tsol25
♀ Member
Member # 29461
Default  Posted: 4:14 PM, December 16th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi WSs
For my next question I would like to ask...

How do I get him to start digging?

He is remorseful and nc and there is/has never been any fog. He apologizes and helps when I trigger. He knows he made a wrong choice to epic levels. But I don't know how to get him to start REALLY looking for "why" He says he'll never know why he would do it etc etc.


me - tsol, that's all for now

Posts: 1208 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Canada
anotherbetrayal
♀ Member
Member # 30266
Question  Posted: 1:53 PM, December 17th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Really struggling today. Had MC last nite, 4th session since D-day. Left feeling very disappointed in the direction the session went. Spent the entire time talking about different points in the marriage where WH disengaged, i.e. pulled back emotionally. I followed along because I know we need to talk about all sorts of past issues, not just the A. It felt to me like the A was getting swept under the rug. I called our MC today to talk about this. I told her I don't believe he's told the whole truth yet. That emails they shared lead me to believe it was not EA, but PA as well. MC said she wasn't intending to sweep the A under the rug, but felt we need to sort thru the M so WH could see where he disengaged, see where he contributed to the decay of our relationship which led him to make the choices he has made. MC said that WS generally need to own their part before they are ready to be fully honest about the A.
Has this been the case for those whose WS first admitted EA, then later admitted PA as well?

I just want to hear it all now. NOW. Not later. I don't want to go thru the pain of this again later.


Me: BS
Him: WS
Her: MOW w/kids

Posts: 193 | Registered: Dec 2010
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 5:02 PM, December 18th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

anotherbetrayal,

I just want to hear it all now. NOW. Not later. I don't want to go thru the pain of this again later.
It seems more normal for the truth to come before working through things. When it comes down to it, the truth is a yes or no situation and all of the reasons why, the pre-A issues don't affect that truth.
MC said that WS generally need to own their part before they are ready to be fully honest about the A.
Has this been the case for those whose WS first admitted EA, then later admitted PA as well?
(I didn't have a PA)Again, he either had one or he didn't.
Spent the entire time talking about different points in the marriage where WH disengaged, i.e. pulled back emotionally. I followed along because I know we need to talk about all sorts of past issues, not just the A. It felt to me like the A was getting swept under the rug. I called our MC today to talk about this. I told her I don't believe he's told the whole truth yet. That emails they shared lead me to believe it was not EA, but PA as well. MC said she wasn't intending to sweep the A under the rug, but felt we need to sort thru the M so WH could see where he disengaged, see where he contributed to the decay of our relationship which led him to make the choices he has made.
Your MC is letting your WH hide for a bit longer. It sucks. Are you going to R? Or do you need to have the truth before R.

This is one of those situations where the WS does need to work on things, and it's great that the MC is wanting to help him with that. But, how can you decide what you want to do if you don't have the truth?

It's yes or no. Working on pre-A issues doesn't change anything. All you are asking for is a yes or no.

Stick to your guns.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
leftoolate
♀ Member
Member # 22658
Default  Posted: 1:26 PM, December 19th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tsol25

It's good that he's remorseful and supportive. Sounds like he would want to 'have a go' at figuring out why, even if he doesn't see the point, just because you ask it of him.

If that's the case, perhaps you could have conversations to figure out his whys. Start at the surface, work your way down. What does he value? Why? How? What does he fear? Why? How?

Perhaps he has no confidence in finding out why because he doesn't know how to go about it? If that's the case, is he open to therapy? Books? SI? He may just need an instruction booklet on this...

~L.


If you came this far, you're looking for something. - Jrazz

Posts: 811 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Europe
tsol25
♀ Member
Member # 29461
Default  Posted: 1:54 AM, December 21st (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks, leftoolate
Perhaps he has no confidence in finding out why because he doesn't know how to go about it?

We had a good talk tonight and he opened up emotionally.
I don't think that he's not open to finding the why, it's more of he doesn't know where to start. I don't really either. I understand that he's not one to open up if he can avoid it. He doesn't like the emotions because he doesn't know how to handle them.

He's not much of a reader (if there's a video game for this he's set!), I think he's afraid of IC because of what he could find. He doesn't think he could handle anymore (my interpretation not his words). He didn't write it off entirely but didn't jump at the idea. I've dropped hints about SI in the past but I may bring it up again during our next talk. I've given him a few articles to read from SI but I think posting would generate support he needs to look inside himself.

Our talk went for 2 hours in a freezing car and we decided to call recess before we got too overwhelmed (or started to get hypothermia)


me - tsol, that's all for now

Posts: 1208 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Canada
anotherbetrayal
♀ Member
Member # 30266
Default  Posted: 8:14 AM, December 21st (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BaxtersBFF,

Are you going to R? Or do you need to have the truth before R.

I am cautiously living as if we are R. I say cautiously because I am still afraid of hearing more TT yet I don't want to behave is such a way that would further damage our M if no other hurtful truths come forward. I do truly love my WH and have empathy for him regarding the underlying pain he has carried which led him to the A ... don't get me wrong ... there is NO excuse for him stepping outside of the M! ... but I have empathy for his pain and want to work toward healing his pain, my pain, and our issues in the M.

I have to keep to myself that the M is over if I later find out it was, indeed, a PA. I hate having to hold that truth back from him, but he would never tell me it was PA if he knew I'd be done w/the M.

Thanks for your input.
Take care.


Me: BS
Him: WS
Her: MOW w/kids

Posts: 193 | Registered: Dec 2010
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 9:15 AM, December 21st (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Morning all.
A question about freedom/activites in the post-DDay marriage...

Short version: my H had 1 1/2 year affair with a single coworker who has since transferred locations but still socializes with some of his current coworkers. We are 16 months out and still chugging along with R, but it hasn't been smooth sailing and A LOT of work is yet to be done.

Anyhoo - what has prompted this query is that last week my H chose to go to his xmas party - where it was like 100% guaranteed that OW would be there without me & while not over my objection, he certainly went with the knowledge that I was concerned about it. His accommodation was to call/text me throughout the party and to tell me he would have nothing to do with her. Wound up drinking too much and did not come home til 4:30am. He denies this had anything to do with OW, which is possible given his history with drinking.

In any event, this has raised the issue of what is reasonable to expect as far as socializing goes. Previously he had agreed to not go to any work related stuff, but I didn't stop him from going to this one because I couldn't take his attitude/resentment. I am just not comfortable with him going to any work related function, not just because of the threat of ow's presence - there are some events that are just not her thing or that her friends wouldn't go to - but also because of the excessive drinking that is done there & what I perceive to be an atmosphere that is ripe for infidelity - drinking to excess with "friends" - many of which are younger, single attractive women.

Any thoughts? How did any of you temper the need of the WS to have a social life with the anxiety of the BS?


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
leftoolate
♀ Member
Member # 22658
Default  Posted: 3:16 PM, December 21st (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Allgoodnamesgone,
Any thoughts? How did any of you temper the need of the WS to have a social life with the anxiety of the BS?
I'm sorry for the anxiety this causes you. I'm not sure my experience will help you, but I'll give it a go since we have similar issues with the work-events.

Although my work does not include many social functions, I do have (very informal) drinks with some of my colleagues fairly regularly. This never included the other guy, but he did use to be part of that small circle. My affair with him started at his farewell dinner.

Needless to say, drinks and/or dinners with co-workers are a problem for us, now. We talked about it early on, and decided that it would be ok to continue these informal functions. This job has offered me a haven of professional acceptance, and I needed that in the first year after the crash. The dinners are a part of team building, three times a year. The drinks are more casual, and include some venting about work and some sharing of common interests,probably five to seven times a year. So, this is a monthly issue. We agreed on some basic rules, and by now they work. At first, they really didn't help the anxiety, but we kept the lines open and agreed to have me keep going to these 'functions'. The anxiety has lessened, but I'm not sure whether that's because of time, exposure, personal and marital healing, or all of the above...

Anyway, these are the basic rules:
1) Advance notice of the event
2) Right of veto at any time for my husband
3) Set ETA home
4) Set phone call home if the ETA needs adjusting (and also veto & new ETA)

Besides that, I generally take some pictures of my surroundings and companions, and try to use a pay card if and when I pay.

I'm still anxious, and so is my husband, but we've agreed that it is our best course of action. For now, it works. Once it doesn't we'll work out something else.

I hope you'll be able to work out something that works for you.

~L.


If you came this far, you're looking for something. - Jrazz

Posts: 811 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Europe
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 3:53 PM, December 21st (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Left - thanks for the response. My problem is that this group are HEAVY drinkers. So, I'm pretty sure that any ETA would be blown. (This is exactly what happened last week - he came home at 4:30am.)


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
lostinlove4ever
♀ Member
Member # 27421
Question  Posted: 1:00 PM, December 24th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Help me understand please.

A ended 1yr ago, OW ended it because she wasn't aware he was still trying to work things out with me (we've been separated). I've tried my best this year to make things work but he is just distant. I was shocked because while he was in the A he was the most loving and caring man. I asked him just months ago that if we wanted to R I would more comfortable doing it under one household not 2 different ones. He said he is still not ready to move in with me. We have been separated for 3yrs total and he was in the A for 2.

He tells me he loves me but he needs to figure things out first. Same BS he game me 2yrs ago.

How do I handle this situation? Do I continue NC and 180 and hope he comes to his senses? Or do I try and continue to support him so he can see how much his family misses him.

Help.

JFYI my IC said that I can do this as long as I want to. I will know when enough is enough. Ugh

[This message edited by lostinlove4ever at 1:04 PM, December 24th (Friday)]


BW: 33 (me) WH:36
Children: 11yr & 4yr
Separated for 4yrs, soon to be D.

Posts: 905 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: Los Angeles
Junebug0525
♀ Member
Member # 29142
Default  Posted: 1:02 PM, December 24th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Answers by WS only.
Please do not answer by proxy for your WS, stick to your situation.

[This message edited by trying2deal at 6:55 PM, December 28th (Tuesday)]


Me: BS
Him: WXH DDay-11/22/2009~ D~ 10/25/10
OWhore: Co-worker (7 years younger)
"Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together." AND THEY DID!!!

Posts: 1108 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Maryland
wannabenormal
♀ Member
Member # 19772
Default  Posted: 11:45 AM, December 28th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

not a good question for the AWESOME WS on this site. Thanks though!

[This message edited by wannabenormal at 9:32 AM, December 29th (Wednesday)]


BW, divorced: 03/09


Posts: 14252 | Registered: Jun 2008
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 6:33 PM, December 28th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wannabenormal - since the guidelines of the site require that a WS end their affair, it's not likely you'll find someone who can answer your question (unless they had multiple A's and their current BS is a prior AP with them).

Just wanted you to know you were heard.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 6:41 PM, December 28th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lostinlove4ever -

How do I handle this situation? Do I continue NC and 180 and hope he comes to his senses? Or do I try and continue to support him so he can see how much his family misses him.

I know it doesn't seem like it at the moment, but whether or not he's still seeing OW is not the key area that needs to be focused on at the moment. The key area to focus on is what type of a relationship are you willing to accept in your life?

Right now, whether there is an OW or not your WH is giving a clear indication that he is not focused on the consequences of not accepting the chance at R with you. His willingness to deflect your offer to live together again, his emotional distance from you - they are indicators that at best he's looking for ways to cake eat and at worst he's already given up on the M and is just stringing you along. Either way, the longer you do not 180 him and focus on what you need for your own health the longer he will remain in this state of limbo.

Consequences yield results in this situation, period. By my BW not accepting any in between (we were both either all in or all out of the R process), it forced my hand and I had to decide which way I was going to commit to. That prevented any type of lengthy issues like the ones you are facing right now.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
wannabenormal
♀ Member
Member # 19772
Default  Posted: 9:15 AM, December 29th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah, after posting, I figured it wasn't a question really for this site; duh! Thanks for replying though. I think I'll edit it.


BW, divorced: 03/09


Posts: 14252 | Registered: Jun 2008
lostrightnow
♀ Member
Member # 30428
Default  Posted: 4:28 PM, December 29th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is he still in the fog or ready for R?

Dday was 2 weeks ago. He says he wants to work it out and has been trying, cleaning, being there for me when I need him. But I don't feel that he is putting enough effort into it. I have bought books for him to read, and he read part of one for 1 day in 2 weeks yet he can read his boks that he has read 10 times already, and he has time to play video games. He also gets upset when I ask questions. I feel I should be able to ask as many questions as I want. After all I am giving him a second chance I didn't cheat. Last night I was talking to him and he said "are we gonna play the 20 questions game." This morning I ask him what he was looking at on the internet on his phone and he got mad at me for asking him that. I feel like that was wrong. I wasn't being mean or disrespectful, I was just asking him and I feel I have every right to right now. I would have never checked up on him before I found this out. Help! Does he sound ready to R or not. I love him but I don't want to waste my time or my heart.


Posts: 85 | Registered: Dec 2010
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