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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS- Part 5
tsol25
♀ Member
Member # 29461
Default  Posted: 1:03 AM, December 10th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a question for ws who have troubles communicating. Neither myself or wbf have ever been good at talking about less positive feelings and I've done a lot of work in my own head to rewrite my natural answer (ok, good, fine etc). I'm getting a lot better at saying "I am upset right now and this is why"

I can see in wbf's eyes sometimes that he's upset too but he never brings it up, even if I ask how he is. Last week we had what was almost a break through. He started to really open up and it was great, but then I had to dash to work. I felt bad and tried to let him know that I was still there if he wanted to talk after work but it was lost.

I'm wondering if anyone has anything to suggest for helping him open up. What feels like the safest way or...I don't know really I'm at a loss. He always compliments me on being a great listener so I know that he knows that I can listen to him, when he's stressed about work I listen, when he's mad at family I listen. I just need to know what's going on more


me - tsol, that's all for now

Posts: 1208 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Canada
greg888995
♂ Member
Member # 29244
Default  Posted: 8:01 AM, December 10th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BeanBetrayed wrote:
I have a question for WW's...
I was wondering if any WW every apologized or felt remorseful to the MOM's BW?

Right after FWW ended the A, she wrote OM's BW an email in which she apologized for the hurt she caused OM's BW and her family. No excuses, no justifications, really just one or two sentences saying FWW was sorry. She never received any acknowledgment that the email was received.

7 months after the A ended, I received an email apology from OM.

Question for WH's: how many of you apologized to or felt remorse for the MOW's BH?


Me - BH (47)
Her - FWW (46)
Married 17 years
Together 19 years
3 kids
DDay #1 - 12/8/09 (EA)
DDay #2 - 12/18/09 (PA)
A ended - 2/21/10
R'ed - 2/19/11

Posts: 540 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Metro DC
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 9:34 AM, December 10th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

so-crushed,

How do we work towards the "WHY"? Does it matter? If we don't determine the why, am I wrong to believe that the A's could happen again in the future?
Yes, it matters. If you don't find it though, it doesn't necessarily meant that an A will occur again. Figuring out the why is more about dealing with and processing the fallout of the A so that there is no resentment or misunderstanding between you.

As to how, I am not sure that you should think of it as "we" so much as "he". Yes, R takes two, but the "we" only extends as far as identifying both of your roles in any pre-A issues and making sure those are addressed. The rest of the work is on him, IMO.

The process can take a very long time or a relatively short time depending on the issues. For my BW and I, her FOO issues were very obvious. For a long time, when I met any of BW friends that had known her for a long time, they would ask me how she had ended up so normal. My FOO issues were/are very subtle and now that I am aware of them I use the term insidious. It took a lot of time to deal with my why because it was so subtle. It took a lot of patience from BW. I was in IC for a year (not always productive). It wasn't until I started being able to trust and accept BW ideas (ironic, that)that I started getting to the heart of the matter.

The events of the A occurring are one thing. These are the pieces to the puzzle that we hear about on SI. If those don't add up, then you can't work on the next step which is figuring out the reason that those events were allowed to progress. That is much harder to identify.

There are many books mentioned in various areas on this forum. If your WS is a reader, then look here - http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=318321

IC/MC can help. But if WS isn't ready, then MC can just be a waste of time and money.

Your WS has to become very introspective. I'm in the camp that most A's and subsequent problems the WS has dealing with post-A stuff is mostly due to fear. Different WS have different views about their why. Often, if you find a WS whose story and posts are similar to your WS, they will be more than willing to communicate via PM. That may help you to understand some of the potential why's for your WS, and you can sort of steer your WS that direction.

Is your WS on SI?


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6061 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 9:37 AM, December 10th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

greg888995,

Question for WH's: how many of you apologized to or felt remorse for the MOW's BH?
No and no. I can't foresee a time when I will ever get to that point either, but there is a huge back story that I am still sorting through.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6061 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
Hope24
♀ Member
Member # 9344
Default  Posted: 10:17 AM, December 10th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Figuring out the why is more about dealing with and processing the fallout of the A so that there is no resentment or misunderstanding between you.

Sorry, Baxter, but I respectfully disagree.

I had to get to the root of my affair to assure *MYSELF* I wouldn't commit such a heinous act again.

If I hadn't determined how I gave myself permission to have the A, I don't believe I could could say confidently that I wouldn't cheat again.

Self-analysis and understanding is important for the WS. A secondary benefit is for the BS.

JMHO.


She packed up her potential and all she had learned and headed out to change a few things.

Posts: 7603 | Registered: Jan 2006 | From: Poolside
Hope24
♀ Member
Member # 9344
Default  Posted: 10:32 AM, December 10th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm wondering if anyone has anything to suggest for helping him open up. What feels like the safest way or...I don't know really I'm at a loss. He always compliments me on being a great listener so I know that he knows that I can listen to him, when he's stressed about work I listen, when he's mad at family I listen. I just need to know what's going on more


I suspect his shame is holding him back from opening up to you.

Have you considered couples therapy? You will need strong communication skills to move forward from the betrayal.

Good luck.


She packed up her potential and all she had learned and headed out to change a few things.

Posts: 7603 | Registered: Jan 2006 | From: Poolside
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 2:04 PM, December 10th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hope,

I think we are headed to the same place but by different routes. Both ways work or don't work depending on the individual. The only thing I can think of that is wrong with my comment to so-cold is that I should have use

Figuring out the why may be more about dealing with and processing the fallout of the A so that there is no resentment or misunderstanding between you.

instead of

Figuring out the why is more about dealing with and processing the fallout of the A so that there is no resentment or misunderstanding between you.

I spoke from my experience is all.

ETA - just realized most of the original message was in BOLD....I'm not really yelling at everyone...

[This message edited by BaxtersBFF at 8:09 AM, December 12th (Sunday)]


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6061 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
RKT429SS
♂ Member
Member # 28883
Default  Posted: 3:00 PM, December 10th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Right after FWW ended the A, she wrote OM's BW an email in which she apologized for the hurt she caused OM's BW and her family. No excuses, no justifications, really just one or two sentences saying FWW was sorry. She never received any acknowledgment that the email was received.

7 months after the A ended, I received an email apology from OM.

Question for WH's: how many of you apologized to or felt remorse for the MOW's BH?

Bump.

greg...my hunch is that apologies are few and far between. A counter question would be how would you as the BH react? As for me, it would make me feel good, bring closure. But it would depend heavily on the words the OM used.

[This message edited by RKT429SS at 3:02 PM, December 10th (Friday)]


Me - BS 38
Her - WS 37
MOM - coworker,with 2 kids, EA&PA approx. 6 mo
Us Married 10 yrs (together 15 yrs)
1 girl, 1 boy
DDay 3.15.2010
Working on R

Posts: 216 | Registered: Jun 2010
mactruck
♀ Member
Member # 29791
Default  Posted: 3:30 PM, December 10th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The question about apologizing to the MOM BS.

We actually never told her. I know that dirt bag never told her either. We put the fear of God in him, but I know that he didn't do it.

I supported my husband on whether to tell or not to tell. He decided to let it be. We had to many concerns of our own to deal with that.

I did however write a letter to her apologizing. I obviously never sent it, but did share it with my BH. I feel bad for her.

Actually, I feel horrible for her.

_____________________________The why question....
Yes, it's important to figure out the why. How can you ever fix yourself if you don't figure out the why. Soemthing was wrong within your head to allow yourself to do this. Fix it for yourself and hope that it will help fix your M. You have to DIG. There may be multiple reasons why. Look through your teenage years. Look through your mind. It's there. You may not like what you find. Actually, you shouldn't like what you find. But along that why journey you will find yourself and put yourself back together again.

The why, also maynot make any sense to your BS. For example, mine is about as confident as the day is long. He has no idea what's it's like to need external validation. So he has a hard time comprehending it. His statement is pretty basic. I loved my family and you enough to never cheat. Why couldn't you love me and our kids enough not to do the same?

Loaded question....

_____________________________
Question about thinking of the AP while in bed or alone.
Gross. Can't do it. Don't want to do it. It feels like cheating all over again. I will never even fanstazie about a movie star. I think this was the beginning of my slipperly slope. Desire crept in and I made it "ok" to think of someone else. It was safe because I wasn't doing anything wrong. But soon that wasn't good enough. So pile on the external validation, wanting an exit affair, conflict avoidance, and ZERO boundaries; this was a recipt for disaster.

_____________________________
By OM would never send an apology to my BH. He was a jerk the day my H called him. Told him a pack of lies that I still deal with. But it showed me who he really was. It helped me get out of the fog. There was no "I thought I loved her, etc." There was no regret or remorse. He was about saving his own ass.

I'm convinced that an apology from him wouldn't matter to my H. He's more concerned about my remorse than the AP.


There is no spell check. My typing is horrible... Therefore I apologize for errors.

I pray everyday for forgiveness.


Posts: 149 | Registered: Oct 2010
Junebug0525
♀ Member
Member # 29142
Default  Posted: 3:44 AM, December 11th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I didn't see this one asked before.

I'm one of the BS's who's WH actually left to be with OW. We're now divorced. Are there any WS on this site that has left for OW while in "the fog" and come to regret it later? Did it last for you? My backstory is on my profile. I'm just trying to figure out if this is all because she's new and exciting for him or if it really is "true love".


Me: BS
Him: WXH DDay-11/22/2009~ D~ 10/25/10
OWhore: Co-worker (7 years younger)
"Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together." AND THEY DID!!!

Posts: 1110 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Maryland
tsol25
♀ Member
Member # 29461
Default  Posted: 11:39 PM, December 11th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hope24
I suspect his shame is holding him back from opening up to you.

Thanks, hope I never really thought about it from that angle. We originally discussed couples therapy but it wasn't doable financially. Things have gotten a little better in that department for both of us and I may suggest it for the new year


me - tsol, that's all for now

Posts: 1208 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Canada
tsol25
♀ Member
Member # 29461
Default  Posted: 11:39 PM, December 11th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hope24
I suspect his shame is holding him back from opening up to you.

Thanks, hope I never really thought about it from that angle. We originally discussed couples therapy but it wasn't doable financially. Things have gotten a little better in that department for both of us and I may suggest it for the new year


me - tsol, that's all for now

Posts: 1208 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Canada
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 8:23 AM, December 12th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Junebug,

I haven't left for OW. My FIL did and they have been M for 30 years. I have seen regret in him for what he did back then, but he isn't going to change his current situation because of that.

After reading your profile, I would be willing to bet that your XH is more excited about the new "love" than actually being "in love" with OW.

For myself, I thought I was "in love" with OW, but there was always that little bit of doubt in my mind, or sensibility, telling me that it probably wouldn't have lasted. And, given the example of my FIL, I think those who do stay with the AP are doing it out of stubbornness and/or are squashing the doubt/sensibility down to make the best of the situation they put themselves in. Doesn't mean they are happy though.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6061 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
icbtih8
♀ Member
Member # 23797
Default  Posted: 7:34 PM, December 12th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This question is for WW. If the OM dumped you because his wife found out but you were single or your husband hadnt found out, what did you feel for the OM a year and a half later?

Here's the background. We are 19 months out from dday. WH dumped the OW for me by basically ignoring her. She pinned and fished for about 3 months before moving on to another MM. She's single so she hasn't had to face anyone.
2 nights ago, there was an office holiday party to which my WH and I attended but she did not (according to WH). But I couldn't help wondering if she was there, she was looking at us? (I don't know what she looks like). What was going on through her head seeing us together?
It finally dawned on me that she has probably moved on, much like any regular short term relationship (about 3 months). I was the only one giving it that much importance. So am I right in thinking she's probably long past it?

TIA


D-day #1 - April 29, 2009

Beauty is a calling...a call "to transfigure what has harden or was wounded within you"
-- John O'Donohue


Posts: 5424 | Registered: Apr 2009
Proview
♂ Member
Member # 24215
Default  Posted: 12:07 AM, December 13th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is it possible for a person who has never been broken to become broken?
FOO was pretty stable, sometimes dysfunctional but otherwise relatively normal. I grew up confident, capable, and smart..IQ around 173. Regardless, fast fwd to today. Post A, still 3 years later, I still feel broken like I am just not good enough. I am driven, intelligent, athletic, and by all accounts a decent man.
Yet I still feel inadequate.
My wife absolutely can not talk about old news 3 years later but the A challenges is not what bothers me. What really bothers me is the fact that I was told I love you and in the same breathe run over by a battleship.

My spirit was crushed, 3 years later, still feels crushed. I have not had any kind of uncrushing event ....getting the feeling like, I exist to support her, financially. I feel emotionally disconnected, distant, and basically unattached in more ways than 1 (other than Im currently deployed to AFG).


Posts: 81 | Registered: May 2009 | From: AZ transplant
Proview
♂ Member
Member # 24215
Default  Posted: 10:47 AM, December 13th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BUMP 4 Answers

Posts: 81 | Registered: May 2009 | From: AZ transplant
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 11:36 AM, December 13th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Proview,

So what did you and your WW do about things three years ago? If she won't talk about it and you are still feeling crushed under the weight of her A, then both of you need to go back and work on things. It can't be minimized or swept under the rug. You know that, but it sounds like that is what happened.

Being deployed is not going to make it easy, but there are others who have done it I think.

As to the broken question, that can be read a couple different ways. But it seems like you are talking about breaking in the sense of letting go of the M and heading toward D, or letting go of the A and accepting that as a fate. Is that right?

Yes, you can be broken. Yes, you can discover that you have been broken all along without even knowing it. My FOO was normal too. Nothing too wild or obvious. Well, it took a lot of work to discover and even more to accept, but I am broken and it has at least something to do with my FOO. No excuse for my A, but there it is.

You don't have to stay broken though. You can work through it and become even stronger.

Someone posted about how they were afraid of being seen as weak if they stayed in their M after the shitstorm that had been dealt them. I think that it takes a much stronger person to work through it and find the truth. If after that effort they need to leave, then that is the way it is and there is no loss of strength for that. No choice in this is easy. I think everybody is broken, or has become broken because of the A's. It is up to each individual to be honest with themselves, their role, their effort and their decisions. I am still working through that myself.

Thanks for your service. Stay safe.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6061 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
PrettyWings
♀ Member
Member # 25305
Question  Posted: 11:46 PM, December 13th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As a WS, what makes you want to keep your AP as a friend? Why, after being found out, would you continue to risk hurting your BS again by trying to remain friends with your AP? Along with accepting you responsibility in the A,if your AP knew you were married, did you still defend their involvement?

I know I just fired out a whole bunch of questions but I've been holding on to them for a while.


Me - BGF - 30
Her - WGF - 30
D-Day - Apr. 28 2009; TT for months

Anyone can give up, it's the easiest thing in the world to do. But to hold it together when everyone else would understand if you fell apart, that's true strength.


Posts: 52 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: California
Fighting2Survive
♀ Member
Member # 28410
Default  Posted: 12:00 PM, December 14th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This question may have been posted somewhere before, but I'd like to hear new responses...

FWH and I were having a repeat conversation last night. He asked if I still thought that he had sex with OW, and I answered what I have said from the beginning, "I don't know. If you did meet with her in person, I think it is highly probable that you had sex." There was a lot of TT during the first two months after D-day, and FWH outright lied and minimized a lot. His story has been consistent over the last few months, but at this point nothing short of a polygraph would really settle this in my mind. We've agreed to do one in January.

Anyway, FWH then proceeds to tell me that he did try to meet OW for lunch (I already knew this), but it was just lunch and that he only viewed it as lunch with a friend. I actually got sick listening to him say this. I have a pretty clear timeline, and I know what had already happened between them when the "lunch date" came up. They had been texting each other all day every day for 2 weeks, plus continuous FB contact and phone calls. The A had been going on long-distance for 3 months at this point. I thought I was going to throw up listening to him.

So here's my question: Did any of you "backslide" in your thinking after D-day and start revising the A's history so that it was more benign? If you did, why did you do that?

FWH is between ICs. He was seeing someone who primarily focused on substance abuse, but is switching to a new IC. He's doing the assessment now so he hasn't actually had a session for a while. I'm hoping his revision of history is temporary, but it is scaring me.

Thanks in advance for your answers.


Me: BW, 40.......Him: FWH, 40
D-day: 3-22-10
DS1: 11, DS2: crawling
Status: R going well

"When you can tell the story and it doesn't bring up any pain, you know it is healed." - Iyanla Vanzant, Broken Pieces


Posts: 7279 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: NC
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 5:56 PM, December 14th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

PrettyWings,

As a WS, what makes you want to keep your AP as a friend? Why, after being found out, would you continue to risk hurting your BS again by trying to remain friends with your AP?
I suspect that it has something to do with minimizing the A. If you can be friends, then you don't have to accept full responsibility for what you have done. Or, for some, if you can convince your BS that the OP is just a friend, then you can keep the A going.
Along with accepting you responsibility in the A,if your AP knew you were married, did you still defend their involvement?
Yes, I defended OW's involvement. Pull out the WS handbook and you can read myriad examples of excuses. Yes, they are false. Once again, if the WS admits the excuses for defending the OP are false, then the WS has to face the reality of the A, or rather the fantasy of the A and the reality of the devastation they have caused.

For my part, I was on the high of the for a very long time. It took a long time to come off it.

I was one of those who couldn't let go. I guess I didn't so much try to stay friends, or convince my BW that I could be friends as much as I worked on convincing myself that


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6061 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
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