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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men-Part 6 (Men only)
Merlin
♂ Member
Member # 30221
Default  Posted: 1:14 PM, December 17th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Many divorced women still feel entitled to be treated as dependents, forever, the proof of this statement being that many divorced women ARE being treated as dependents. It's disgusting; and it's state-dictated slavery. I'm in favor of temporary alimony to pay for education, pay to help get a formerly non-working spouse on their feet. But at some point a single adult must become self reliant.

This is the law in my state. And, for marriages longer than 20-years (ours was 24+), alimony is permanent unless (and only because I put it into the settlement documents) she remarries or cohabits.

So what if my STBXWW makes $92,000/yr, and has great current and retirement benefits (state worker). Her 'gross income' is compared to mine (I'm self-employed). Since I make more money (no benefits, self-funded retirement, wildly variable income) under the law she is entitled to permanent alimony.

So she cheats, blows up the family takes her secure income and retirement, half the marital assets and gets lifetime alimony.

This is slavery, pure and simple. She gets the product of my work effort for the rest of her life. I belong to another by court order.

Pretty good deal, huh?


"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself." D. H. Lawrence

Her: WW/56 Me: BS/62, 24yrs M
3 great kids, now 22, 20, 17 b,b,g
D-Day 8/14/08, D 1/13/11


Posts: 1080 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: East Coast
OnceInALifetime
♂ Member
Member # 26023
Default  Posted: 1:29 PM, December 17th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Merlin, it is enraging on so many levels. 92K is a *good* living. Nobody making that kind of money should be getting any kind of charity.

Who in hell made up these rules? I really don't get it. If men have all the power, how is it that these insanely unjust practices continue?

Maybe divorced men have been stigmatized. Maybe society sees us all as cheating, abusive, uncaring bastards who deserve to be punished, who owe their poor suffering XWs a debt that can never be repaid.

And maybe divorced women have been stigmatized as completely incapable people who could never even so much raise a finger to try and make ends meet. But even if you fall for that, why punish the XH?

[This message edited by OnceInALifetime at 1:32 PM, December 17th (Friday)]


BH, now divorced

Posts: 3012 | Registered: Oct 2009
OnceInALifetime
♂ Member
Member # 26023
Default  Posted: 2:08 PM, December 17th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You know, as long as we men continue to feel like we must pay for the dates, buy the expensive ring and get down on one knee to propose, and as long as women still expect these things, then we will live in a world of princesses and their servants.


BH, now divorced

Posts: 3012 | Registered: Oct 2009
Mr. Kite
♂ Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 2:11 PM, December 17th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Somewhere Paul McCartney is nodding his head in agreement. A good attorney can find loopholes in a prenuptial agreement, but it's still better than nothing. You don't sign the prenup, we don't get married.

Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
wonderingbull
♂ Member
Member # 14833
Default  Posted: 2:42 PM, December 17th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Holy shit dudes..... I was with the ex for 18 years and we were never married.... I just packed my shit, moved out and started a new life....

I couldn't imagine having to pay that bitch for the rest of my life because she was bobbing on another guy's knob.....

I really believe there would be a lot fewer guys willing to get married if they were informed about what laws they're subject to if the chick takes off with a different dick....

WB


The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time...

James Taylor


Posts: 5893 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: A better place
Merlin
♂ Member
Member # 30221
Default  Posted: 3:35 PM, December 17th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OIAL,

I get it. Divorce laws came from a time when women could literally starve to death if they were 'put out'. From there, case law and precedent did much of the damage.

Then, the feminist revolution, 'no-fault' divorce (what a joke) and finally two-inciome families.

Look, I would never argue that half of everything we built together is hers. We built it together so when it was time to take it apart, 50/50 works.

But when you combine no-fault, 'equitable distribution' (another joke of a term) and long-term marriage penalties, the results are devastating for the higher income earner in in the marriage.

The higher earner becomes an asset whose 'returns' belong to the lower income earner. The result is that I and everyone like me are chattell.

[This message edited by Merlin at 4:31 PM, December 17th (Friday)]


"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself." D. H. Lawrence

Her: WW/56 Me: BS/62, 24yrs M
3 great kids, now 22, 20, 17 b,b,g
D-Day 8/14/08, D 1/13/11


Posts: 1080 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: East Coast
Mr. Kite
♂ Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 3:47 PM, December 17th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The higher earner becomes an asset whose 'returns' belong to the lower income earner.

Does this also apply when the husband is the low wage earner in the family? If not, why not? Isn't the justice system built on fairness to all, no matter the sexual gender?


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
HurtingandLost
♂ Member
Member # 29322
Default  Posted: 4:17 PM, December 17th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Actually, in some states, men can file for alimony for up to 12 months.

I had the opportunity to to so with exWW but wanted nothing from her than the final signature...and I had trouble enough getting that. Oh wait, I had to file in absentia since she never did sign the papers or respond....


holding out hope
UPDATE: Hope's Dead

Posts: 430 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: CO
Merlin
♂ Member
Member # 30221
Default  Posted: 4:29 PM, December 17th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Does this also apply when the husband is the low wage earner in the family? If not, why not? Isn't the justice system built on fairness to all, no matter the sexual gender?

Mr. Kite,

In theory (in NJ anyway), yes. In fact, my ex's OM (a lowlife, multiple DUI, faux cowboy) gets alimony from his XW because he does not work.

As for the 'justice' system, it took me some time to get this as I move through the 'system', law has nothing to do with fairness, right-wrong or even justice. Its all about base law, cases and precedents. It took me most of a year to realize just how f'd up the family court system is.

For example, divorce is run through family court and its charge is to do everything for the benefit of children caught in divorce. But my our children were barely mentioned in nearly two years of a messy (still not done) divorce.

So its a scam and a sham. Its for the lawyers and the judges. Law is an adversary process with surrogate advocates. Justice? Maybe a long time ago, not now.


"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself." D. H. Lawrence

Her: WW/56 Me: BS/62, 24yrs M
3 great kids, now 22, 20, 17 b,b,g
D-Day 8/14/08, D 1/13/11


Posts: 1080 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: East Coast
OnceInALifetime
♂ Member
Member # 26023
Default  Posted: 10:00 PM, December 17th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Does this also apply when the husband is the low wage earner in the family? If not, why not? Isn't the justice system built on fairness to all, no matter the sexual gender?

Yes. But as I said earlier, I'd wager that most divorced men have enough sense of independence that they wouldn't want to accept alimony from XW. It's drilled into men (correctly) that we must make our own way in life.

[This message edited by OnceInALifetime at 10:01 PM, December 17th (Friday)]


BH, now divorced

Posts: 3012 | Registered: Oct 2009
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 9:32 AM, December 18th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@scd - Didn't realize that newbies get the 180 advice without considering the remorse-factor. I'll be on the lookout. I agree that the 180 is counter-productive with a remorseful spouse.
It appears through my lens that so many (the majority?) of the WS's (as described by the posting BS, granted - I read with the default assumption that most of them are telling the truth...some aren't I know...) - are not remorseful, and instead continue with the lies, torture, and abuse.
When there's no remorse described, 180's the way to go. The pain on so many of these posts is palpable, and the situations are C.R.A.Z.Y.

I almost came in here a few days ago to rally the menz to go in and support a newbie in jfo. People are so unbelievably cruel sometimes it makes my heart ache to numbness and I can't even express it.

(& I hear some of you thinking; "And thank GOD for THAT!" )

This time of year I find myself struggling not to go to "the dark night of the soul". Deep within me, despite my efforts to 'get past it' (through it) - I still hear the knock on the door announcing the end of my first M. Somehow, the hollow sound calls up an emptiness, a spot, a hole...and it takes effort to type one dam thing to describe it.
So, to help dispel, I thought I'd share. I might be trying a few of these things this year. Maybe #8.

http://artofmanliness.com/2009/12/10/11-ways-to-get-into-the-holiday-spirit/


Posts: 6005 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Jnot
♂ New Member
Member # 30320
Default  Posted: 2:16 PM, December 18th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wonderingbull, you da man! If I find someone that truly loves me, I won't marry her. I'll provide her with whatever she deserves and needs while we are together. Some women won't except this but if a woman truly loves you she will want to be with you and therefore, marriage won't be necessary.

Posts: 21 | Registered: Dec 2010
jasper
♂ Member
Member # 28168
Default  Posted: 12:02 AM, December 19th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Guys in D, here is my plan (agreed to by WW):

50/50 custody split. She waives alimony, if I keep house so DD can live here. I continue to pay all HH bills, including mortgage and exhorbitant taxes (I have been doing this since May). If I stay in house for more than 5 years, she will waive requirement to payout on house, until I decide to sell. When I sell she gets 50% of proceeds.

Is this a good deal? I can't keep my house if WW makes me pay her alimony, and I requires me to buy her out of the house. My leverage point is that she wants DD to grow up with a home and not just two apartment/condos. My WW suggested this deal.

Will a divorce lawyer (representing WW) ever agree to this?

WW and I have done a ton of paperwork to sort out financial assets (fairly uncomplicated) and real estate (also uncomplicated). We have an agreement we can turn over to a lawyer.

My question is, if I turn over this agreement (which feels generous to me), will my WW's lawyer tear it up, convince WW she is getting screwed, and then rack up millions of $$ in bills fighting for a better agreement on WW's behalf?


Posts: 696 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: New York
hurts
♂ Member
Member # 9444
Default  Posted: 12:24 AM, December 19th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jasper, who is paying for her lawyer. I would hope that if someone walks in with a mutual agreement and are basicly satisfied with it that they will just cross the t's and dot the i's and move it forward.

I can see it as the lawyers job to advise her of the generous swing, but would not try to convince her to alter it.
Luck to you man.


Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?"
Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."
--- Charles M. Schulz
SO if I check my pulse, and it is not there, do I get the day off?

Posts: 8381 | Registered: Jan 2006 | From: At Home
Merlin
♂ Member
Member # 30221
Default  Posted: 9:09 AM, December 19th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jasper,

If you're agreed on the main points, can you mediate rather than litigate? Most states have mediation procedures where a single mediating attorney can work out the details. Its faster and way cheaper than litigation.


"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself." D. H. Lawrence

Her: WW/56 Me: BS/62, 24yrs M
3 great kids, now 22, 20, 17 b,b,g
D-Day 8/14/08, D 1/13/11


Posts: 1080 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: East Coast
Blueeyedfella
♂ Member
Member # 29944
Default  Posted: 9:40 AM, December 19th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BEF,
Is she allowing your kids to be around her OH? What does your lawyer have to say about that?

wife: We're definitely not at the lawyer stage yet. D is the 800 pound gorilla that we're both hesitant to talk about especially with all the stress of the holidays. I have no doubt we'll get there after the new year.

As for the arrangement, I have the kids most of the time and she has them twice a week at her place. Yes, she lets the OH be around the kids (but he's not around a ton when the kids are there). That part used to bother me at first, but not as much anymore b/c 1) that's the reality of the situation and 2) it's a bi-product of giving me a night off so I can do my own thing.

Jasper, just been reading some of your recent mosts. Your timelines, ages, time marriage, nature of R, setup of S, etc., sounds so similar to mine. If we do go down the path of D, I also suspect it'll be very similar to yours - 50/50 split, co-parenting, etc. Probably will get a mediator rather than fight it out in court. I think we're both on the same page with that,.

[This message edited by Blueeyedfella at 9:46 AM, December 19th (Sunday)]


Me: BH (Mid 30s)
Her: WW (Mid 30s)
Married 10 years, together 15.
2 kids under 4.
DDay: Jan-2010
4 false Rs with varying degrees of "trying" - same result
Dec-started mediation process.

Posts: 250 | Registered: Oct 2010
quedagh
♂ Member
Member # 24195
Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, December 19th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jasper,

Probably not if she tells the lawyer this is what you two have agreed to while working together.

It was a fear I had, too. Our papers followed a similar line.

Also, do not forget to add and address all custody issues- including holidays and taxes- because this will hold it up.

Agree and put in a morality clause, too. This is a must for kids-- overnight guests get quite confusing for littles

Remind her often that the amicability of your efforts is done for the kids. This may help her keep the lawyer at bay.

My lawyer fought me on this... and it was tempting... but he eventually agreed we were operating in kids best interest. I have no idea what her lawyer was saying to her-- but it eventually worked out-- 28 days after filing.

No hearing, didn't need to be present, nothing because we had worked it out.

Nice. Sad, too. But less painful.


Divorced and safer, mostly.


Posts: 803 | Registered: May 2009 | From: Recovery Land
SourCherryDrops
♂ Member
Member # 25883
Default  Posted: 3:27 AM, December 20th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

50/50 custody split. She waives alimony, if I keep house so DD can live here. I continue to pay all HH bills, including mortgage and exhorbitant taxes (I have been doing this since May). If I stay in house for more than 5 years, she will waive requirement to payout on house, until I decide to sell. When I sell she gets 50% of proceeds.

Jasper, If you are both happy with this arrangement, then wether its fair or unbalanced is irrelevant, however you may want to consider the long term financial situation.

If the waived alimony payment represents half of the mortgage payment amount then the waived alimony equals her payment amount towards maintaining equal equity with you in the house.... however if the alimony is less then she is waiving a smaller amount to avoid contributing a larger amount to the house.... and similarly the otherway around.

The other thing with houses as you all certainly know by now is that the value can both riase and fall... will she be taking an equal risk in this area? is she still going to be liable for any debt should the value of the house fall?

What about the alimony payments...would they be constant like the mortgage is likely to be or is there a real chance that they might increase or decrease over the coming years? What happens after the house is sold? and how long would you be liable for allimony if you did pay it?

all things worth considering if your worried about the financial outcome....

but I am also currently in a situation that is severly to my own financial disadvantage because it is the best thing for my kids...


Me BS 37, Her STBX 34, 1*ONS, 1*EA 1*PA/EA, 2*PA
Heading for D after 9 mths of R

Posts: 1468 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Europe
Jimi40
♂ Member
Member # 10909
Default  Posted: 9:06 AM, December 21st (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

*she* gets the goldmine.
*he* gets the shaft.

I have only heard of one guy who ended up on the winning end.


You've got nowhere to fall, when your back's to the wall.

Posts: 5524 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: Niagara
jasper
♂ Member
Member # 28168
Default  Posted: 12:16 PM, December 21st (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the advice. We're both retaining our own lawyers, separately. Unfortunately, my appointment isn't until Jan 4th, but I guess it's been 8 months, so what's rush at this point.

Jasper,

If you're agreed on the main points, can you mediate rather than litigate? Most states have mediation procedures where a single mediating attorney can work out the details. Its faster and way cheaper than litigation.

Here's my question about mediation, though. You're still required to have your final agreement blessed by a lawyer, right? So, if I'm already going in with my own agreement pretty nailed down, and WW claims she agrees with it, wouldn't a mediator just be an added step?


Posts: 696 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: New York
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