Cheating Hurt by Infidelity
Betrayal Wayward Donations lying
Welcome

Forums

Guidelines

Find a Local Counselor

The Healing Library

Media

Contact Us
lies
cover
In Association with Amazon.com
Support
Infidelity -
-
Find a Local Couselor
You are not logged in. Login here or register.
[Register]
Newest Member: Juniper (43177)

I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men-Part 6 (Men only)
thyme2go
♂ Member
Member # 12908
Default  Posted: 1:17 PM, December 15th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jnot -- when was your Dday? Have you considered waiting for a set period of time before deciding what you will do regarding your M? Just curious because if you are anything like I was your thoughts and emotions are bouncing like a ping pong ball right now.

I committed myself to trying to R for one year but unfortunately ex filed for D after seven months -- deciding for me.

Patience. And focus on you for now as you need to be healthy to proceed no matter which path you follow.


-t2g


BH - no longer 48
3 DD's - (27, 24 and 17)
Divorced on 8/6/09

Posts: 9144 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: Eastern Washington
SI Staff
Moderator
Member # 10
Default  Posted: 2:18 PM, December 15th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WARNING

From this point on there will be no more warnings and anyone who violates the guidelines will be subject to immediate banning.

Can't be much clearer then that.


Posts: 10000 | Registered: May 2002
Mighty
♂ Member
Member # 26909
Default  Posted: 6:07 PM, December 15th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I’ll risk the ban stick, so this will be long, and maybe my last post? I am sorry, there will be some generalization as I try and understand women (in general) and compare stories of our particular WW’s. This is how I cope because I’ve never been thrown into a situation where I ever had to dig deep into the female mind just so I can move beyond the pain she is giving me; I am trying to understand “why?” and finding how she does things in our marriage, and what she thinks is not all that different from how a whole lot of American “liberated” women are. I do talk to other women, and they are quite insightful because that is how they work too; it is not how I or any man I know operate. Even here, the guys often state things like “you must be married to my wife”, so there are some common traits.

Seriously, I’m not trying to give the admins here grief by generalizing, but there are only so many times you can hear “my wife is the same way” before you start using the big brush. The women’s liberation movement has failed to brain wash me into believing there aren’t differences between the sexes when my 7 year old already knows. I see boobies.... small ones, big ones, jiggly ones, and firm ones, but am supposed to pretend I’m blind to the differences or even their presence? They are there, they are all different, but in general all women have them. There are some specific female traits as well, but I exampled the obvious. Will I get banned for stating the obvious that any of my kids, regardless of gender can tell you simply because I’m a man and said it out loud?

This is a problem in society they have asked of men; We are told to ignore the differences or face consequences. Yet in our own relationships, we get in trouble constantly because we didn’t notice and do something different based on gender like hold open the door, pay for the date, change a diaper, change the oil, build something, buy jewelry.... on and on. AND we get in trouble because we did notice and said something that acknowledged things are different. We can’t win because no matter what action we take, it can be offensive to someone of the opposite sex. We aren’t giving enough, or are taking too much... Isn’t that right in line with women’s rights when discussing men?

Society told my wife she deserves this; not part of it... ALL OF IT: She could be the princess, mother, and the CEO (with a good man behind the scenes cleaning the house and taking care of the babies too while being a successful provider and emotionally “in touch” with her). She didn’t have to earn it, she was entitled to be treated “this way” by each and every man because we’re inherently evil and trying to put her down. They beat it into us boys too: You can’t treat women that way, and need to get in touch with your feminine side. I couldn’t be all that and get my own needs fulfilled, so I was the failure and why she had the affair. So you’ll have to excuse me when I generalize. I believe women’s liberation sold a fantasy that women can take only the good parts and shouldn’t ever have to compromise or listen to a man bash her gender. But what about the guys and their entitlement to have a voice where we can be strong men? Is it any wonder we clump together doing manly things women don’t normally like... that’s where we talk openly and unfiltered.

This thread is the one place where I feel like I can talk like a man without getting bashed for my neanderthal ways by the opposite sex. It’s similar to what I keep telling my WW; How can I help you if all you give me is a filtered version of who you are? We (the men in here), can’t help each other if we have to constantly present the “liberated man mask” society has thrown upon us when I honestly do not feel that way and see the differences between the sexes. This thread is about men helping men without the judgement or input of women because like it or not, we do think differently and have different perspectives. Sorry if that offends, but it is honest. And a female moderator is judgmental from a female perspective of what is said in here... this is why I want to ask if there is a male admin to keep it in check because he will probably understand the difference between normal conversation and bashing the opposite sex without taking statements personally.

This is also one of the more popular threads in the ICR subsection and grows by pages daily. We are chatty and we are helping each other.


BS (me) 44 WS (her)43
Married 17yrs, Together 20 yrs
Three children (9-13)
D-Day #1 - 4/11/09 (me).. DD's stopped, she quit talking. Body count: 6 OM, 1 OW. (2 EA's, 1 LTPA, 1 PA, 3 "kisses").

Posts: 629 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Denver
Blueeyedfella
♂ Member
Member # 29944
Default  Posted: 6:31 PM, December 15th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I haven't checked this thread in quite some time (since page 7!) - been killed at work lately. Finally surfacing for air.

Brief update with me...WW had the affair back in Jan. She tried to break it off with the OH but just kept coming back to him. Finally, after a few months of counseling, we separated in April. She moved out in June/July and we've been separate since. OH moved in with her, you get the drift. We have 2 kids under 4 so we're trying to balance all that.

The latest is that the OH is a scumbag and I guess he treats my WW like dirt sometimes. Twice she's called me drunk at night crying saying what a mistake she made and how he treats her like crap, etc. Recently she asked me if there was any way we can reconcile, etc. She texted me this at night after she had been drinking so I basically said, "sleep it off, let's talk later." Then just recently, she wonders why I was never desperate to get her back. Why I never went to her place to tell her "come home". NEver wrote her a letter telling her how much I loved her, etc. She never got the sense that I really wanted her back but only did it to make things easier (with kids, etc.). So frustrating.

Sometimes I wonder if I could have done more. But I forgave her even after the affair, I wanted to reconcile and work towards repairing my relationship but I was basically thwarted by her wavering and her failure to commit to trying. All the back and forths just defeated me and I ran out of vinegar to reconcile. BEsides, I'm not the wayward one so part of me thought, "I shouldn't have to convince her to come back - she needs to come back on her own and then we'll take it from there".

Anyway, part of me wonders if she's doing this b/c she wants to get back together or if she's doing a post mordem on our relationship and understand how/why it ended.

Thanks for listening - appreciate any feedback.

BEF


Me: BH (Mid 30s)
Her: WW (Mid 30s)
Married 10 years, together 15.
2 kids under 4.
DDay: Jan-2010
4 false Rs with varying degrees of "trying" - same result
Dec-started mediation process.

Posts: 250 | Registered: Oct 2010
Deeply Scared
♀ Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 6:32 PM, December 15th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Seriously, I’m not trying to give the admins here grief by generalizing, but there are only so many times you can hear “my wife is the same way” before you start using the big brush

I wouldn't consider that generalizing. But what IS generalizing are the numerous posts in here with "All women are bitches..." "women...just can't follow directions" that is generalizing.

And a female moderator is judgmental from a female perspective of what is said in here... this is why I want to ask if there is a male admin to keep it in check because he will probably understand the difference between normal conversation and bashing the opposite sex without taking statements personally.

MH is not only a male, but he's very active on what goes on on this site. So if you have a problem with us "women" moderating, perhaps this isn't the site for you.


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 191861 | Registered: May 2002
Geeman1967
♂ New Member
Member # 25937
Default  Posted: 6:44 PM, December 15th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mighty - Mighty

I agree with everything you have said.

You should not be banned.

There are differences between the sexes - a few thousand years of civilization and a few decades of womens lib doesn't change diddlely squat.

Men are beat down every time there are issues in a relationship its the mans fault, virtually all relationship self help books are aimed at the man becoming more female in their approach - well fuck that!! why don't women learn to ask directly for what they want, speak their minds and stop playing games.

How the fuck am I suppose to know what your fucking problem is if you never tell me.

Then you have an affair based on the fact that it made you feel good and then blame me for your own desisons.

How the fuck am I suppose to deal with statements like "your a wonderful husband and father I just don't know why I resent you so much".

Personally I am through trying to understand madness, reason with madness, or understand the motivations of madness.

I just think of my WW as mad, and have let go trying to work out how she thinks.

Women (maybe some) have an entitlement mentality, you can give them your all (financial, help around the house etc ) and it will never be enough so you may as well stop trying, that is their nature. In fact I am beginning to believe that the very act of trying to please them makes them lose respect for you.

We are different and women need to get over it.


Who did I marry!!!???
Oh yeah STBXW

Posts: 39 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: London
Deeply Scared
♀ Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 6:47 PM, December 15th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Geeman1967...

No one said anything to Mighty about being banned. Stick to posting about your situation and don't worry about the moderating of this site.


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 191861 | Registered: May 2002
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 6:55 PM, December 15th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

jnot, 'too good to leave' helped me too! I read Bradshaw's toxic shame (when I found it- too late! lol), and I camped out here. When I was a noob, true story! I 'laid it all out' as a reply on someone's thread, and some wise gentle mod said; "we're ALL broken a bit." That small simple loving statement started me on my journey here, where I actually discover myself daily as I lurk. Thank the gods you love I DON'T do it too often!
babble here.
I'm an emotional person. If any links I would ever post here would NOT help SI and all with why I am here to discover and grow and heal, then,
to protect SI from hacking attacks, and those who would wish this specially effed community harm, I'd give into their wisdom. This IS ds's HOUSE, after all!
If Mighty and I and anyone, tracked boots of mud on this place, I FESS UP.
(i reserve that stuff- the INTENTION of it - for the unrepentant WW as a simple comparison).
I BET we didn't MEAN to, it's not in my or mighty's hearts that I can tell ya.

WE LOVE YOU
and we can prove it.
GENTS?

I STILL stand shoulder-to-shoulder with him. We ARE strong ds...though sometimes, not wise.
I've learned here that I'm here.
Sounds silly, I know.
But that means that I am above ground for a REASON.


Posts: 6005 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 6:58 PM, December 15th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

PS
I meant gents cept hnl
(well,
jimi too)

Posts: 6005 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:17 PM, December 15th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Blue, this part caught me

NEver wrote her a letter telling her how much I loved her, etc. She never got the sense that I really wanted her back but only did it to make things easier (with kids, etc.).

That situation resonates with mine, I'd say it sounds like you did an instinctive 180, and that's good!


So frustrating
comes alot from our failure to tend to our own needs. We're not used to it, being trained and conditioned as we are, to tend to the ww and family. For me, it was the unfamiliarity of paying attention to me that got me in this mess in the first place.

Her reactions are the effect a true, instinctual 180 has. You're gonna make it too.


Posts: 6005 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Lotsa
♂ Member
Member # 28078
Default  Posted: 7:19 PM, December 15th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BEF,

It sounds to me that your WW has come to the realisation that the grass isn't actually greener on OH's side of the fence. Sounds to me though that she may be hedging her bets a little.

I would have thought that if she was truly genuine, rather than ask you whether there was any prospect of R and drunkenly ruminating over why you didn't beg her to come home, she would ditch OH and through her actions prove that she is worthy of you giving her a second chance.

I also don't think it was your place to convince her to go back home. If you had, I can imagine down the track you would always second-guess if her heart was really in it.


Posts: 880 | Registered: Mar 2010
Blueeyedfella
♂ Member
Member # 29944
Default  Posted: 9:01 PM, December 15th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I also don't think it was your place to convince her to go back home. If you had, I can imagine down the track you would always second-guess if her heart was really in it.

Lotsa: Totally agree. It would have been a nagging feeling if she had come back AFTER I begged her.

For me, it was the unfamiliarity of paying attention to me that got me in this mess in the first place.

Yep, you got it. One of the things she brought up during MC was the fact that I put myself second after our second child was born. SMH.


Me: BH (Mid 30s)
Her: WW (Mid 30s)
Married 10 years, together 15.
2 kids under 4.
DDay: Jan-2010
4 false Rs with varying degrees of "trying" - same result
Dec-started mediation process.

Posts: 250 | Registered: Oct 2010
OnceInALifetime
♂ Member
Member # 26023
Default  Posted: 9:07 PM, December 15th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have seen the remark many times in this thread about how we feel we all married the same person. I think the reason for this has little to do with the fact that they are all women, and much more to do with the fact that they are waywards. I'd also bet that WW and WH have more in common than WW and faithful women.

Reading about how BWs describe their WHs, there's a lot in common: the sense of entitlement, the blaming and devaluing of the faithful spouse, the need for outside approval, and the dismissal of the very wonderful things that are right under their noses.

Right now I'm incredibly sensitive to gender issues that are unfair to men, such as the expectation that we pay for dates, and I'm pissed at the legal system for turning my XW into my dependent for years and years to come. Yes, I'm angry as hell, and I find myself angry at women in general.

But, taking a deep breath, I simply must believe that there are many women out there who are *not* endowed with a princess-like sense of entitlement. Unfortunately, most of us did not wed such a woman.


BH, now divorced

Posts: 3012 | Registered: Oct 2009
Jnot
♂ New Member
Member # 30320
Default  Posted: 9:48 PM, December 15th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Tyme2go. My Dday was two weeks ago. I had already started preparing for my exit a couple of months ago because the last year of my life has been pure hell. I put a keylogger on the computer just because I needed to know if there was something that would cause my wife to not sleep with me for an entire year. In Feb. (our anniversary) I bought her 1K earings and got a room at a casino. Had a fine diner, played, and actually won enough to pay for the get away and them some. She still rejected me that night. I as a man can only take so much rejection for it makes me feel slightly worse than getting kicked in the nuts. So, my finding out that my wife was whoring around the entire time I was trying to talk to her to find out what was wrong, take care of our child, work my ass off to provide from my family, go to MC (two different ones in fact), etc, etc... was just iceing on the cake. I gave her so many oppurtunities to come clean and she passed them up. I still love her but I will find someone else to love and hopefully they will truly love me the way I need to be. I do get scared about having trust issues after this but come to think of it, every woman that I've had a long term relationship with has cheated on me. Maybe it's a personality flaw I have?

Posts: 21 | Registered: Dec 2010
BrokenHead
♂ Member
Member # 24218
Default  Posted: 9:59 PM, December 15th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I guess I am at fault for starting this firestorm by posting the link. I must confess I never read the guidelines that closely. I shall not post a link again. Problem is every once in a while something out on the web hits the nail on the head I feel the need to share it.

As for generalizations I don't get it, I think something I might post like "all women are bitches" would be considered a generalization, however I don't believe describing traits of narcissistic women as it relates to my WW and the loads of enlightenment I've received from forums like this are "generalizations" at all they are (painful) "observations".

Either way I won't link and I'll try not to _generalize_.


[This message edited by BrokenHead at 10:00 PM, December 15th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 144 | Registered: Jun 2009
GeauxTigers
♂ Member
Member # 28301
Default  Posted: 11:12 PM, December 15th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

C'mon, DS, the "directions" quip was just a joke, baby! Don't be sore about that (and I *have* behaved since!)


Sigh... how did I end up here?

Posts: 1379 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: Nashville
SourCherryDrops
♂ Member
Member # 25883
Default  Posted: 3:23 AM, December 16th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jnot,

In light of your very recent DDay date, I think it is very important that you realise that we are more or less describing the 180, when we talk about putting our needs first, not allowing ourselves to be baited by our WW.

Its not so much that you give up on the M, but you give up the need for a specific outcome....

If you really feel that your M is over, that you dont want to offer R, or that your wife is incabable of doing her part, or that you wont be able to let go of the pain, then S&D may well be the best path.

But if there is any doubt left in your mind, if your not 100% behind the decision to S&D then my suggestion would be to follow the steps for R as much as possible untill such time as you have made a decision. You may even just use a fixed timeframe like t2g suggests.

This way you will not burn your bridges or make decisions that you later regret.

I do think its true that us BH have a lower success rate in achieving a successfull R with a WW than BW & WH... but there are still successes.

I also dont really feel there is any significant correlation between the extent of the infidelity and the success rate. Some situations that really boggle my mind have ended up successfully R'ing, other where you would think they had the best chance may head straight for D...

While your learning to stand up for yourself, or learning to not get drawn into her manipulation you may as well stay in the M...actually if you really want to get good at these things youll need to be in a relationship where you can practice them....


Me BS 37, Her STBX 34, 1*ONS, 1*EA 1*PA/EA, 2*PA
Heading for D after 9 mths of R

Posts: 1468 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Europe
HurtingandLost
♂ Member
Member # 29322
Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, December 16th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How many of you Gents have had the trickle remorse. Not trickle truth so much, but trickle remorse. Where after months, to the point where you have 180'd your WW out of the picture, when you have decided to move on, she begins to push for R. Hard.

Over the past months, for the most part her idea of R was throwing empty words my way, followed by minimal action if any.

Over the past month, she's trying. For the first time in years, I actually see effort on her part to participate in this marriage. She struggles with trying to understand earlier emails / letters / discussions we had early after Dday, and is finally starting to show a level of remorse, rather than regret.

My problem at this point is that after years of shouldering everything in this M and begging her for help, coupled with her A, I just dont really give a fuck at this point anymore. She wants me to validate her efforts and I can't muster up much of anything except indifference. I wonder if maybe I havent turned into some sort of narcisist. I feel empty and, well, numb.

Is it time to pack it up and leave this shit behind for good? I dont know. I just wonder whats wrong that I am truly this detached from everything.

[This message edited by HurtingandLost at 11:05 AM, December 16th (Thursday)]


holding out hope
UPDATE: Hope's Dead

Posts: 430 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: CO
HurtingandLost
♂ Member
Member # 29322
Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, December 16th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry for the blanket title of Gents....I meant to include jjct and jimi too....


holding out hope
UPDATE: Hope's Dead

Posts: 430 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: CO
OnceInALifetime
♂ Member
Member # 26023
Default  Posted: 1:23 PM, December 16th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hurting, I wish I knew how to answer that. On D-day #1, I told my wife we were threw when I discovered evidence from an affair. I was hurt and mad as hell. She was beside herself, begging, threatening suicide. But whenever it seemed to her that the M was all over, even periods within D-day #1, she just sent a ton of hate my way.

Anyway, I held on for a little longer, just the whole limbo confusion state. During that time I discovered many other affairs. Same reaction: pleading, begging, and lots of action too in that she prepared nice meals, treated me well. But still, when hope for the M seemed lost to her, she would get nasty. And she never offered me truth about things I hadn't discovered on my own, and never gave me what I felt was a considered, deep apology. She may have figured it would have been pointless for her own purposes, in that I would have ended up divorcing her anyway. Such an apology would have put her psyche at risk.

To me it says a lot that she wasn't willing to take that risk; that the "remorse" was conditional upon my staying married to her. I think her lack of true, unconditional remorse was partly a result of her being in self-preservation mode. The amount of devastation she wreaked upon me, and our children, by her actions, is a lot to own up to.

[This message edited by OnceInALifetime at 1:27 PM, December 16th (Thursday)]


BH, now divorced

Posts: 3012 | Registered: Oct 2009
Topic Posts: 1000
Pages: 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · 7 · 8 · 9 · 10 · 11 · 12 · 13 · 14 · 15 · 16 · 17 · 18 · 19 · 20 · 21 · 22 · 23 · 24 · 25 · 26 · 27 · 28 · 29 · 30 · 31 · 32 · 33 · 34 · 35 · 36 · 37 · 38 · 39 · 40 · 41 · 42 · 43 · 44 · 45 · 46 · 47 · 48 · 49 · 50

Return to Forum: I Can Relate This Topic is Full
adultry
Go to :
madness  
© 2002 - 2014 SurvivingInfidelity.com. All Rights Reserved.