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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men-Part 6 (Men only)
Mighty
♂ Member
Member # 26909
Default  Posted: 9:57 AM, December 8th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

mighty,
how did you stop 1 and 2? Mine does exactly this and it feels like I am dealing with the most spoiled teenager on the planet!

So tired, it was a long haul and a long response. It took lots of things and you could go back and look up some of my earlier post (along with wincing’s).

Step One; Give up your marriage. No longer give a shit one way or the other. Don’t tolerate bullshit. Figure out appropriate ramifications... hate to say it but there aren’t many choices there; Divorce, or often I’d sit my wife down and tell her how her latest action affected me and changed my perspective of her for the worse. It’s like this: She’s playing a game where you pursue her... she does crap just to get a reaction out of you or to get you to go after her. When you change, she’ll look back over her shoulder and see that you are standing in another field, no longer even caring or looking at her. And, with step 2, you are doing your own crap... So no longer play her game.

Step Two: Focus and heal yourself. I used “No More Mr. Nice Guy”. I learned to get what I needed from within (validation and so forth). I took all the control my wife had over me back. It’s basically asking yourself “What do I want?”, and making choices and actions to get it. Set and discuss what you want out of a ideal marriage. Set boundaries and deal-breakers. Voice your thoughts. Another thing happens when you get stronger mentally and physically; your WW who is disgusted by you starts seeing you in a new light. Mine rediscovered why the hell she loved me in the first place. Fear set in as she saw me setting the stage for my departure.

Step Three: One I did get out of marriage counciling is how important perspective is, and how far out of whack my WW’s was. So, manipulate it back toward reality. Something I almost posted in the wayward section:

Sometimes you need to feel and inflict that pain and hurt to cause change. I used words and actions as a tool. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Sometimes hearing your story repeated through an unfiltered perspective is just the ticket you need to see this in a new light.

A WS has twisted their perspective to be not as bad. Something every BS has learned: The truth hurts like hell sometimes. So personally I do not have a problem saying and describing vile actions with vile words. I’m not going to soften it up into “making love” or even “sex”. That’s what you do with me, and I sure hope it doesn’t take the same corruption of values. So what you two did was so much “dirtier” it needs new sentence enhancers for me to describe. “I didn’t think about you” sounds much better than “I was thinking about how to deceive you all the time when I planned and when I got back and told you about my day. I was thinking about you when those butterflies churned my stomach. I was thinking about you when I selected a rendevous you might not see us. I reassured myself that you were a bad person, I had a bad marriage, and that I was entitled to be happy” You thought about us constantly and we were there every minute and never forgotten... but that’s just not a pretty version because it shows malicious intent.

There are a lot who would disagree, but I believe your WW needs to be pushed to the floor so they can get back up again. Couple facts: They have minimized the “wrongness” of their actions. People don’t change unless they really want to. You have no control whether she’ll change or not. What you can influence is their perspective. You can repeat back their stories from your perspective. It’s like my wife’s version reads out like a friendship gone wrong. I’ll retell a simple true story that often happened: He texted, she deleted the text, figured out how to lie to me to get out of the house, went over there and screwed him, went to the store to establish an alibi, and came home and told me she loved me (of coarse it was longer and I was graphic). Then I asked her if this is what friendship looks like? If there was money exchanged, it’d be a felony.. Pure and simple booty call, not “love” not “friendship”. If she just wanted me to be her best friend, how was this going to make that happen? And so on and so forth. I got her questioning herself. I needed her to see herself as a villian. Only when she loathes herself will she really try and change.

This is how I brought about change in my WW. Once she started changing, I allowed her to close the distance between us. This is what you can control; yourself. So, I gave her emotional support and opened up a bit more when she started making positive changes. I don’t want to control my wife, I want her to rediscover herself and be true to that person. As a WS, she was conflicted within creating all sorts of irrational behavior as she battled her ideals against her opposite actions... I have reinforced over and over that her actions should reflect what she wants and needs. If I’m in there, then she needs to do whatever she can to get me.


BS (me) 44 WS (her)43
Married 17yrs, Together 20 yrs
Three children (9-13)
D-Day #1 - 4/11/09 (me).. DD's stopped, she quit talking. Body count: 6 OM, 1 OW. (2 EA's, 1 LTPA, 1 PA, 3 "kisses").

Posts: 629 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Denver
Mr. Kite
♂ Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 10:52 AM, December 8th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Only when she loathes herself will she really try and change.

Would a woman with already low self-esteem now be even more vulnerable to the next sweet-talking scumbag that turns up in her life?

I have encouraged WW to go her own way and find someone else. She has always been financially independent and certainly will do just fine without me. I have even brought up that it would be best for her to move in with her favorite person, her sister. She lives in Texas and is recently divorced. Between the two of them they pull in over $300,000 a year. It makes perfect sense to me. The more I do this, the more she wants to make things right between us. Strange.


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
mkgit
♂ New Member
Member # 30208
Default  Posted: 12:09 PM, December 8th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

question: is she crazy?

My DDay was 04 Jan 2010, ironically the date of our 9th wedding anniversary. today WW comes to me with potential plans for our 10th wedding ann. going to a romantic hotel for two days, extravagant dinner, etc. it was if i was listening to a "mad" women in the street. its as if he completely forgot about our how last annivesary turned out due to her selfishness and stupidity. orignally i had thought of spending the date in Key West fishing with some male friends. basically as far away from her and DDay as possible. upon reflection,I thought if i really wanted an effort at salvaging M i'd decide to stay with WW and have a dinner, without the fuss and without expectations. now she's hurt that i don't want to go away on a "romantic" holiday. hello? i haven't touched you in 5 months? for about 10 seconds i felt bad and considered changing my mind. then i came to my senses.

Mighty,

Don’t tolerate bullshit

what you wrote was solid.

Posts: 31 | Registered: Nov 2010
Mighty
♂ Member
Member # 26909
Default  Posted: 12:19 PM, December 8th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Would a woman with already low self-esteem now be even more vulnerable to the next sweet-talking scumbag that turns up in her life?

You bet it’s possible, as is suicidal thoughts if she can’t deal with you bashing apart her pedestal. But see step one: If you’ve done step one, you really don’t give a shit how she reacts; You hope it will be for the marriage, but you can accept ANY outcome. You have given her a choice; the marriage as you’ll now accept it (and it won’t look like the dead one), or divorce. Always let her know that you do want the marriage to work and love her, but you can’t accept it in it’s current condition. Where you are is limbo. You can accept ANY outcome, but see no reason to divorce until you finish step 2 which will help you in either outcome. Look at the R forum to see how to handle the R.

Assuming she hits the bottom; It comes down to how they want to deal with their own issues. See step two; I found how I can build my own self-esteem without outside validation. Throughout that process, I kept her in the loop of how I was growing and what I was doing. This is being a leader. I don’t tell her “you should ______ “. I show her what I did and she saw my map. She can plunge down her rabbit hole, or follow my path. I can help her and will offer my support. I’m there for her on the condition it also benefits me and what I want.

Notice the change in attitude too: I’m no longer there for her and willing to sacrifice just for her benefit (you convinced me Razor). I refuse to be the doormat anymore. Now I have stated my wants and needs, and as long as her actions are going to benefit me, I will be there emotionally for her. If she decides she still “won’t be controlled” and defines that as doing the opposite of what I’ve told her I need and want, I increase the distance between us. I have beat into her that “being controlled” absolutely does not mean that when her wants and desires align or benefit me is the same me controlling her like a puppet. I don’t want a slave, I want a strong woman I can respect and who respects me as well. This is mutually beneficial and she needs to let go of that petty spite that is also blocking her from getting what she wants for herself. Note that you also have to live this too... don’t not do something just because she might like it. Example: I want to go on a date with her... so I do it. I don’t think “she doesn’t deserve this”, I instead think “I want to get out of the house, enjoy her company, and want to have some fun.” So I ask. If she doesn’t want to go, I’ll still get out of the house and do something I want to do.


BS (me) 44 WS (her)43
Married 17yrs, Together 20 yrs
Three children (9-13)
D-Day #1 - 4/11/09 (me).. DD's stopped, she quit talking. Body count: 6 OM, 1 OW. (2 EA's, 1 LTPA, 1 PA, 3 "kisses").

Posts: 629 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Denver
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 1:00 PM, December 8th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can't believe a woman just tried to lecture us for being men in the Men's thread.

For the lurkers, here's how it breaks down:

Men's thread = men being honestly men.
General = men being honestly men, but realizing we're in mixed company.
Recon = men telling women what they want to hear.
PM's = men *really* saying what we think and being unapolagetic assholes about it because no one else can see it.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 1:04 PM, December 8th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WAL.

That and as it turns out she was reading a book about what men really think .. written by a woman.

Talk about a recipe for disaster.

Razor


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3084 | Registered: Sep 2007
Deeply Scared
♀ Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 1:08 PM, December 8th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Any woman that posts on this thread will lose access to the entire site.

I suppose rules don't apply to you


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 192011 | Registered: May 2002
Deeply Scared
♀ Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 1:11 PM, December 8th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And to the Men...

Please don't take it upon yourselves to slap others down.

PM a Mod instead.


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 192011 | Registered: May 2002
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 1:11 PM, December 8th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I actually don't mind books by women interpreting men.

Men accept that women are mysteries. That's part of what makes them interesting, confusing, baffling, maddening. They're not problems to be solved or understood.

Women tend to think they've got men all figured out (because of books like these, Cosmo articles, etc.) We get dismissed as not "doing relationships" or understanding our own feelings. The more books like this there are, the more confusing and inaccurate messages get put out into the universe.

After awhile, confusing and inaccurate is close enough to mysterious for my taste. Let men be just as mysterious as women for a while and see how they fucking like it.

I think that if most women had any clue about how emotionally savvy and relationship-conscious men really are, they would probably run away screaming in terror at the depths to which we have gone to hide that fact and make sure we still get our way when we want it.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 1:13 PM, December 8th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DS.

eh? I must be missing something. We told her the rules and sent her on her way. Did we (I) do some thing wrong?

Razor


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3084 | Registered: Sep 2007
Jimi40
♂ Member
Member # 10909
Default  Posted: 1:34 PM, December 8th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

eh? I must be missing something. We told her the rules and sent her on her way. Did we (I) do some thing wrong?

Of course you did, Razor, you're a man .


You've got nowhere to fall, when your back's to the wall.

Posts: 5524 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: Niagara
Jimi40
♂ Member
Member # 10909
Default  Posted: 1:35 PM, December 8th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do you guys know why women write books about men, for women?

Because men won't.

<scratches balls, and burps>

<a fart for good measure>

[This message edited by Jimi40 at 1:37 PM, December 8th (Wednesday)]


You've got nowhere to fall, when your back's to the wall.

Posts: 5524 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: Niagara
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 1:37 PM, December 8th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So if a man is all alone. In the desert. In the middle of no where. With no woman around for hundreds of miles.. Is he still wrong?

YES.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3084 | Registered: Sep 2007
Jimi40
♂ Member
Member # 10909
Default  Posted: 1:38 PM, December 8th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Gotta give her credit, she has balls coming in here to tell us how we are.


You've got nowhere to fall, when your back's to the wall.

Posts: 5524 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: Niagara
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 1:44 PM, December 8th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jimi... if she has balls.. does she not qualify for this thread?

One liners. Add yours.

No matter how good a woman looks. Theres a man out there who is sick and tired of putting up with her shit.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3084 | Registered: Sep 2007
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 1:50 PM, December 8th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Of course you did, Razor, you're a man

I'll just fess up it was me-I'm pretty much immune to this-everything's my fault

kids=my fault, I 'stuck my dick in her'

her dogs get into the trash=my fault, I should have hauled the trash off the second it formed(no matter its bagged in a trash can w/lid & the trash station is only open on mon, wed, fri)

boy has trouble in school=my fault-I should tutor him(even tho she actually held a job where she was a fucking tutor)

my son is obese-my fault for not buying the groceries, forcing her to buy the junk food

affair-my fault, she was lonely, I was (fill in blank)


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
Jimi40
♂ Member
Member # 10909
Default  Posted: 1:57 PM, December 8th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, now we know, 64. Next time I'm in shit, I'm just pointing at you.


You've got nowhere to fall, when your back's to the wall.

Posts: 5524 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: Niagara
Merlin
♂ Member
Member # 30221
Default  Posted: 2:19 PM, December 8th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Razor,

So if a man is all alone. In the desert. In the middle of no where. With no woman around for hundreds of miles.. Is he still wrong?
YES.

Bwahahaha! I had to squeegee off my screen. Perfect!


"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself." D. H. Lawrence

Her: WW/56 Me: BS/62, 24yrs M
3 great kids, now 22, 20, 17 b,b,g
D-Day 8/14/08, D 1/13/11


Posts: 1102 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: East Coast
SimoneDB
♀ Member
Member # 27209
Default  Posted: 2:24 PM, December 8th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MEN ONLY!

[This message edited by Deeply Scared at 2:38 PM, December 8th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 88 | Registered: Jan 2010
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, December 8th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Didnt it JUST happen again?

I mean. Get a clue eh?


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3084 | Registered: Sep 2007
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