The hardest part I found though, was that every once in a while I could see the wife I loved pierce through the delusion... but whether it really was her or it was just something I was looking for I'll never know.
Bro - with that we have the first bit of evidence that maybe we weren't married to the same woman. Upon Dday I never again saw the person I was M'ed to for 23 years.
the rewriting of marital history, the insistence that we had "never shared a truly deep connection,"
and her insistence that we'd never really "connected" at a fundamental level (in 13 years together!)
Change the 13 to 20 and we both heard the same line. From page 421 of the WS Handbook.
How many of you have actually worried a bit about your STBXW killing you in your sleep, or putting little doses of poison in your food, or maybe just adding some lungies to your soup?
Naa - she needed someone to blame for her having an A.
Just popped into to say hi.
Just wanted to add to Proview's comment on page 2.
I don't know if any of you realize how much your sharing your thoughts helps "Lurkers" like me.
I have been a member for little over a year but have been on the board pretty much since right after DDay 16 months ago. I haven't posted much but I "Lurk" almost every day and THIS THREAD has been the biggest single help in my recovery. When I felt like I was the only guy who had this feeling or that feeling about WW I take great comfort in finding that I'm not alone and others are working through it too.
It has also helped me identify that pain I've had in my groin as my gonads were re-attached.
Thanks to everyone for all of the help you may not know you're giving.
The most comical XWW escapade was when I told her oldest brother what was going on, becuase he was honestly clueless. That started her off on a tirade of "HE'S the cheat, He beats me, he robs banks, he the cuase of genocide around the world, he's the ANTICHRIST!"
So she calls all four of her brothers and tries to drum up some drama. Here I come a couple of weeks later on leave to see my kids. She's calling me talking about how all of her brothers are going to kick my ass. I said whatever.
I'm sitting at my xfatherinlaws place drinking a beer watching my kids play when they all pull up, and start walking up. I said something along the lines of I don't need any of you alls shit. Two of them looked at me crosseyed and asked WTF? We just heard you were in town and came to drink a beer with ya. Dont tell me you were listening to (blanks) shit? Cause we sure as hell werent. She's Batshit Crazy....
Nobody believes their BS and when spelled out even to family they know she is fucked up.
The joy of being with a WW.
Blatantly stolen from another site:
TK's Guide to Married Life with an HPD
This is from my personal experience over the last three years. It may or may not gel with anyone else's. No guarantees, implied or otherwise, regarding merchantability or fitness for purpose, etc etc yada yada.
Often, the guys that end up in a relationship (not just as f**k buddies or for a pump and dump) with an HPD are 'nice guys' with co-dependent traits. Sounds like you might be, I know I definitely was. You can't be a nice guy in a relationship with a normal woman, let alone an HPD, without being walked all over and ultimately leaving both of you hurt and unsatisfied. I'm not saying you can't be a *good* guy. Be caring, loving, and supportive by all means. But unless you embrace your role as the leading force in the relationship, she'll treat you like dirt, and then she'll be angry at you for *letting* her treat you like dirt. I've come to believe that a woman can't feel long-lasting passionate love for a man who's weak and controllable. That's where the dreaded "I love you but I'm not IN love with you" line comes in - the fire's gone out, because he didn't stoke it and fan the flames.
A female HPD is the very essence of femininity. The good (caring, nurturing, loving, warm, affectionate), the attractive (presentation, the way she moves, the way she can make any guy feel on top of the world), and the bad (lying and cheating if she can get away with it, emotionally unstable, fickle and irresponsible), all dialled up to maximum and wrapped up in a petite package. She's a wild woman - as you would expect, because HPD forms due to lack of closeness with her mother. As one of our resident HPDs here once said, it's not so much that they use and discard men as that they're looking for the 'perfect man', one who can give them what they need. My quest, and yours, is to learn to be that man.
If she is the primal feminine, how could she ever have a real relationship with anyone but the primal masculine? To make it work, you have to be that primal force. You have to be active, not passive. Be the incubus to her succubus. Strong, brave, and unafraid, especially of her. Never hide from conflict, never run from a fight. You have to be sure of yourself, always. You make the decisions, she can disagree with you (and if you choose to, you can go with her suggestion instead) but the final say is yours. You can treat her like a queen - but make damn sure she knows you're the king. If she puts you down, call her on it and tell her it's unacceptable. If she treats you badly or starts showing another man too much attention, tell her, straight away, that she *will* stop. If her words and her actions don't match, and sometimes they won't, then tell her so and demand an explanation. Always, ALWAYS believe her actions over her words. And most importantly, she has to KNOW you are ready and willing to walk away for keeps if she breaks any relationship ground rules. I can't stress enough how important it is that you NEVER let her break your boundaries without consequences. If you train her to view your boundaries as empty threats, then it's your fault when she's surprised that you won't take her back after she cheats.
She will test you, constantly, to see if she can control you. Don't let her push you or manipulate you. She'll yell and scream when you stop jumping on her command. She will push every button she can find to try and get you back under control. She will rage at you. Always stop and think it through. Don't be afraid to apologise if you were in the wrong, but never just assume you were, and never apologise when you were in the right. If you were and it's just another $#%^-test, tell her directly "your anger is your problem, not mine" and give her some space to get over it. She'll rage even harder when you say this - that's part of the test. If she can intimidate you, you fail, and she loses respect for you. If she can't, even if the night ends on her stomping off to the spare room yelling "I'm never speaking to you again" over some ridiculous thing, you pass. Her respect for you goes up, she feels safer and more committed in the relationship, and believe it or not she finds you more attractive.
As for the sex - just taking the lead in the relationship in general will improve things in that area. As with every other aspect of your life, though, take the lead here. Be spontaneous. Slap her ass on the way past, give her a passionate kiss for no reason whatsoever, bring her flowers if you feel like it. If she responds well to that kiss, pick her up and carry her to the bedroom like a Viking pillager (obviously no means no - give her a squeeze and a smile and a quick kiss on the lips and leave the room - do NOT try and make her feel guilty, make sure she knows that you're not upset and you're up for some later when she's ready). Never apologise for wanting sex - you're a red blooded male and wanting to have sex with her is part of why you married her. Never ask for sex, NEVER beg for it. Just crank up your own engine and if your experience is anything like mine, she'll rev up to match you.
It's possible that she won't be able to handle the new you. It's possible that once you stop pandering to her and letting her push you around, she won't want to be with you any more. If so, then thank her for the good times you shared, kiss her a fond goodbye and start looking for someone who can. But if you can handle being the leader of your pack, earning her respect and owning her as your consort through sheer force of personality, then I believe it can work, and more than that, I believe it can be the most rewarding relationship you can have. So far it's working for me.
That is my path for now.
Just wonder is it too hi a price to pay?
I went to a christmas lights on event with a bunch of friends Thanksgiving evening... We had some drinks afterwards at a bar then I came home... I fell asleep in my big red chair watching TV when I was woken up by the ex standing over my chair yelling at me...(crawled through the doggie door) She was yelling that I was screwing this woman or that woman and started pushing me around.
She stalked me and my friends at the lights on and noticed some of my female friends that are definitely attractive... After she started getting violent I ran to the back bedroom and called the police.. In the meantime she grabbed my goldend retriever and put him in her car and grabbed a gun...
I came back into the living room, not noticing my dog was gone, and closed and locked the front door... The ex came to the front door and pointed the gun at me through the glass... I ran to the back of the house and laid on the floor until the police came...
Since then I keep a loaded shotgun under my bed...
So, I'm waving my hand high in the air as a big YES!... I did fear for my life...
That article is absolutely spot on. I have had that attitude for the last 9 months and it has worked wonders for me.
Slap her ass on the way past, give her a passionate kiss for no reason whatsoever, bring her flowers if you feel like it. If she responds well to that kiss, pick her up and carry her to the bedroom like a Viking pillager
Try reading this with a thick, Austrian, Schwarzenegger accent or maybe the Simpson's Rainier Wolfcastle.
Have been doing the same thing for 6 months and she yawns. Got nothing...
Women can sniff out the difference in a heart beat.
In your scenario, applying the above article, you would kick our out on her ass as a consequence for disrespect.
Easier said than done? Absolutely :)
She seems willing to do a trial separation for 1 year but doesn't want any lawyers involved. Knowing her, sometime during the separation she will divorce me on grounds of desertion. Sorry honey, I know longer trust you to do the right thing.
I think she knows it to. Her behavior of late has been much improved. Regardless of this. *one more and your done* remains in effect. And the *one more..* isnt just another A. Its any insensitivity any disrespect. One more and your done bitch.
I just started reading the Dr. Phil book on the left hand side of the screen. I was working on one of the exercises and she came into the room and said" can we have just one day without any depressing shit come up?" (We havent mentioned anything in almost a week, but whatever).
I told her it wasnt depressing, and unlike her I was completing actions to try and improve myself, maybe she should try it sometime and leave me the fuck alone...
Later she back peddled and asked how it was going, and asked what exercise I was working on and what were the results. I told her I had completed the current relationship staus exercise and it said we're fucked. Dr. Phil said 32 was bad and we were at a 52. Call a lawyer.
As for the sex - just taking the lead in the relationship in general will improve things in that area.
I ran it through a computer simulation...
10 MsgBox = "Does wife want more passion?"
20 Input WWi1
30 If WWi1 = "N" Then MsgBox = "Must be doing a good enough job, mate."
40 If WWi1 = "Y".string
Then sex = sex + 1
50 MsgBox = "Is wife receptive to your efforts?"
60 Input WWi2
70 If WWi2 = "Y".string Then MsgBox = "Fan-fucking-tastic buddy!"
80 Else goto 10
> Does wife want more passion?
> Is wife receptive to your efforts?
> Runtime Error: Infinite Loop. Sorry dude... you're fucked but not in the good way.
I piss her off. I play. I make her laugh. I dont care how she feels in many ways and just be me and believe in me.
the cost is this. I have given up on any true intimacy. I dont trust her at all and any real words have only been spoken by me.
I do more of what I want have more sex but am no more happier because of the missing component and what the article really made me realize is that this is it. Our marriage (haha) will never have what it needs because she is fundamentally incapable of a real relationship.
I have outgrown her and her disfunction.
She is the equivalent of a desk lamp to me. I want lite its on. Not its off. How the lamp feels is moot.
She is IC. It would take years to ever fix her.
I am just me now and what it does to the M is out of my control.
But emotionally the loneliness kills me.
I see the problem, your programming in BASIC, WW's dont understand BASIC...
Apparently they only run LoONy
Id show you a decompiled version of their software... but ... well... Im still trying to figure it out myself... but it seems bassed on completly random branching.
I see the problem, your programming in BASIC
Yeah... times have been tough since she took the computer in the divorce
First some background. Found out WW was having an A with MOM three years ago. We decided to work through it. Things seemed to be going OK but I never felt like she was truly remorseful or doing everything she could to help me. FF to this past May. Found out the A with the same MOM was on again/off again for the entire time since DD #1 three years ago. Told her we were done but she begged for another chance and I agreed. We went into MC. At this point there was no more trust so I put a GPS on her car. In July, through the GPS I found out that she met him at a public place to talk. Confronted her with this and she swore that he was the one that tracked her down to talk but admitted she was confused about her feelings and was having a hard time letting him go. I went to an attorney and started preparing the D filing. She was not aware of the GPS on her car at this point. I told her the only way I could continue trying to R with her is if she swore she would commit to total NC and that I would need her to get a GPS cell phone so I could track her at all times. She was not happy with the GPS cell phone but reluctantly agreed. Said her IC also thought it was a bad idea. About a month ago, I tried to reach her at home and on her cell but no answer. Got suspicious and decided to put the GPS back on her car. A week ago I noticed she was driving around without her cell phone (so I couldn’t track her or so she thought) and it was apparent that she was trying to find MOM (he lives in town and they would contact each other when they passed each other on the main road in town). I confronted her about this and she denied at first but later admitted that she was looking to talk to him. I left the house for the weekend and told her I was going to contact the attorney. Got in touch with the attorney and have the D filing in my hand waiting for my signature. She keeps saying that this is not what she wants and that she is confused and having a hard time letting go of MOM and that they have only spoken a few times since May. She wants more time. I told her your actions speak for themselves and that I can no longer live with you being “confused”. I told her we are out of time – if you are still confused, I am filing ASAP and will begin immediately to disconnect from her so that I can begin to heal myself. Basically when I file there is no going back. She begged me to go talk with her and her IC tonight. I agreed but told her I need an answer tonight – either you are 100% in this with no confusion as to what you want or I am filing. There comes a point where a decision has to be made and that we are at that point.
Sorry for the long-winded post but the background was necessary. So my question to you: given all of the above would any of you give her another chance if she swears tonight that she is 100% committed and knows what she wants? I feel like the fog may have lifted a bit over the past week.
Me: BH mid-40's
Her: WW early 40's
Married: 12 yrs
One son: Under 10
D-Day 1: October 2007
D-Day 2: May 2010