I do like the reverse psy stuff you suggested. However, her reaction to me telling her I do not ever want to have sex again would most likely bring about the old "why don't you like, care, desire me any more?" Also "do you think I am fat, ugly and just not good enough for you?" Stuff like that.
I do understand what you were saying about how to try and handle things with the soft 180. I am not very good at the 180, detachment shit. I just want to have fun, good times whenever possible.
One thing that I am having a harder time putting up with now that I am getting older is all this mood shifting and stuff. That and all the pain in the knees, back etc.
Hugs to the tribe.
UKGirl - you go stomp off. Lol. Sometimes it's just too much to handle any other way, y'know?
About 30 minutes after my post this morning about doing damage control from last night (which, was pretty controlled, btw - all I did was tell him I don't give a f--K and go to sleep, lol.) I told my H I needed some space & didn't want to talk to him until I got home from work. Too much drama. And, all of this is because I was thinking about some things that happened during the A. He was actually good yesterday - he was attentive-ish, took good care of our daughter all day & did a bunch of chores I would normally do - he must be sitting there like wtf - that'sthe last time I do that!
M3: Personally your plan sounds impossible to me. I'm glad it's working for you.
Strongish: ok - I think the gist of what I wanted to say to you this morning was that a lot of us suffer from wanting what we can't have: we can't turn back the clock & erase the A. We can change a lot, our marriage can be better in a lot of ways, healthier, etc. but innocence/trust lost, well - it's gone. When I am in a good state of mind I am able to recognize that stayingwith my H has many benefits, but it is unquestionably a relationship with limits. I will not trust, love, nor respect him the way I did. Doesn't mean I'm better off without him tho.
All relationships have limits. And all relationships should have limits. Just a thought.
All I'm really doing is this: I'm concentrating on my own F'up'edness... Now, most of you guys are normal people, but I'm not. I'm getting there, but I take a little blue pill every morning and I've got 5 years of therapy under my belt. And still progress could be made. So, I'm working on THAT. Hopefully when I get there, the M will be better. Or not. Maybe WH and I just did too much damage to each other for this to be something that can be repaired. I'll know when I know.
And as far as limits - well -I guess I see your point to an extent, but I just meant that I'm staying in a relationship while knowing I'm not going to feel that "head over heels" love again.
Other than a single text around noon today, H & Ihaven't communicated all day (at my request). And, I was far happier & more productive at work than usual.
So, do I continue to do this? It can't be good for R. I think it's just the feeling of failure that I'm looking to avoid. Like, we don't have happy conversation like a couple should, like I think THEY did and it just depresses me more kwim?
I have been lurking a bit the last few days and haven’t really felt like posting. I have read all your posts and am finding myself feeling very confused.
For the first time since Dday I am feeling detached from my H. I don’t know if it’s another symptom of the rollercoaster, if it’s because OW3 is out of the country and I don’t have to worry about him sneaking around to see her or if I don’t care at the moment.
I am wondering if he senses this. Yesterday evening I was in the kitchen cooking dinner. He came over and kissed me, looked me in the eyes and said ‘I think I am falling in love with you all over again”. I started to tear up and had all these thoughts running around and around through my head.
a)Why don’t I feel really good – this is what I want isn’t it?
b)Why is he saying this – he has been telling me he’s always loved me?
c)Am I a “new” and exciting AP now for some twisted reason?
d)Did he have the affairs because he needed this “falling in love” buzz?
e)Then back to the start - Why can’t I be happy he said this?
He’s at work all day today and tomorrow (weekend here) so I’m home alone. Think thoughts of this are going to dominate.
Before DDay I actually thought that I had a pretty perfect life. Although my WH wasn't home much I didn't mind doing the home thing as I felt like we were working together towards our future. Now, no matter where I look the future looks bleak.
So what do I really want?? That's the BIG question isn't it? What I really want is someone that is head over heels in love with me.
Sadly, I don’t think we can ever have this with our WSs. The affairs will always tarnish the feeling.
tell her their H had an A and within a year the woman has cancer, etc.
I would sack this doc. God just giving you another thing to worry about. As if we don’t have enough!!
trying to re-build attachment in the wayward partner, and to promote detachment in the betrayed partner, essentially to achieve a balance of emotional power in the relationship.
I realised when I read this that I think this is what I have been trying to do over the last couple of weeks without realising that was what I was doing. I suspect this may be why I am feeling a little bit “blah”
It's doing what is appropriate to meet your spouse's needs without asking them to meet any of yours. It's learning to self-soothe.
IMHO: I wonder are we doing this as a kind of defence mechanism. In other words are we conditioning ourselves to “self-soothe” so that we are less dependent on our spouses and so less liable to feel hurt when they let us down. At the same time, by focusing on meeting THEIR needs we can reassure ourselves that we are making all necessary effort towards R and that we therefore are not to blame if things go wrong.
Anyway, that's my lame, half-formed description. Hope this helps someon0e.
I may be totally misunderstanding you m334455 or maybe what I am doing is totally different. Thanks for your description – it has helped me reflect on my own approach and sich.
Do you see what I'm trying to say though? Be you. Be healthy. Let your spouse know that you'd like them to be with you if they choose to be loyal and healthy too, and that you'll be OK if they make a different choice, but they really can't be with YOU if they make a different choice. Because you deserve someone who is loyal and healthy.
I told my H again last night that I only want him if HE WANTS ME. I said that if he doesn’t he should leave now. That I WILL BE FINE without him and would prefer to be alone than with someone who doesn’t want me or who wants other women too. I have said this often over past 5 months and each time he says he only wants me, loves me, wants us to be happy etc etc etc.
I like to think he means it.
Trouble is I think he may mean it now but can’t help but doubt him in future. Having 3 OWs over 16 yrs makes me think he will fall back into the old pattern if/when things don’t go the way he wants again. Fuck he’s selfish!!!
She asked, I told her; it is the result of an afternoon interacting with her first OM (the one who works where I do). The whole time I am reading emails from him or writing back, or talking on phone I think of them.
This is just too cruel. Isn’t there any way you can get out of it?
just checkin to let you all know that i am still o.k....
Thanks. Please know we care. If you need to be quiet that’s ok but if you need us, if we can help, please come back.
I have a feeling that you are going to find a great new job. I just FEEL it!!!
Okay. He doesn’t want a jealous or controlling wife. Fine. I won’t be. He can fuck who he likes, just don’t bring anything home to me. Anything more, I should say. But perhaps he should tell any prospective other partners or girlfriends that he is a herpes carrier before he shags them. Fucking selfish fuckwit, stupid bastard, talk over me twat. Fuck him!!!!!
HUGS HUGS HUGS HUGS HUGS HUGS HUGS HUGS HUGS
That it started innocently enough, he was just interested in how she was and interested in her family?
That’s how all my H’s affairs started too. Funny he didn’t realise how dangerous this was after the FIRST one!!! Sometimes when he talks about the nurses at work and mentions something about what one of their children are doing I think and sometimes SAY “WTF, how do you know all this detail? I don’t know all this about the families of people I work with. Don’t you think that this is one of the reasons you developed these attachments esp when talking to the divorced/separated whores?”
Like, we don't have happy conversation like a couple should, like I think THEY did and it just depresses me more kwim?
I know EXACTLY what you mean. During Hs last A with OW3 he almost never talked to me. Most days he would be grumpy and snappy so I avoided him. I felt very depressed and as though I had no one to share anything with. I detached. I actually liked it when I was at home and he was at work. I spent a lot of time on the phone with my kids and my sister. Now, after hearing his conversations with OW3 and their pleasant little domestic exchanges, I RESENT missing this. He talked to her for hours about the house, the garden, the farm, her family etc etc etc. Made me want to throw up. Now he talks to me about his FUCKING DUCKS!!!!
Sorry about the rant!!
Today as I said I am home alone. It is now 8.30 am here on Sat morning and I suspect for those of you in the states it is somewhere around late afternoon Friday. Maybe for once I’ll get to chat real time with you. I have SO MUCH to do but will check in regularly to see how you all are. Have a nice evening
I think what you are feeling is part of the process. I understand the feeling concerning the comparasion between what you all had and what they had. It is a unfair comparison and it is depressing to have to view things this way. I am sure all of us feel this way.
Rant all you want. It is good for you. Please keep us posted about those fucking ducks.
Well here we are at page 50 so I guess we will be moving shortly. I want to clear my mind and maybe give myself a lift for the weekend. Everybody here seems to be a little pissed off so I think I will join in.
All of our WSs are selfish fucktards, assholes and fuckwits. They all give me a case of the ass. Hell they are all bigger morons than I am. AHH I feel better now.
See you all at the new house. Address part 21.
[This message edited by strongish at 5:51 PM, November 5th (Friday)]
Glad I gave you a laugh.
Being very silly this morning. I just started listening to the VAR recordings of his phone calls to her from when I first found out. I haven't done this for months.
Listening to him talking to her is hard but I want to check out truth of a few things he's told me.
He says she means nothing to him now. Strange listening to their conversations now. He sounds very false - makes me wonder.
I was really lucky - so many things were said that told me who she was. Someone was looking out for me!!!
Anyway, the ducks were very excited to get out onto the grass.
Hope they have a nice day
some of you seem to be so stuck in "fear"......afraid it will happen again, afraid to allow yourself to be vulnerable, afraid to speak up, afraid to keep "using" the affair, afraid, afraid....afraid...
does anyone know what fear will bring you?
what we fear, we create.....
instead of being afraid, take some leaps of faith...not in your ws but in yourselves...you are not the same person you were, you are not the same trusting soul, you are not who you used to be.....trust yourselves to know when its done....
in the meantime...be proactive in your healing, be proactive in your relationship...KNOWING all the while that you are not the same person....
if your ws has not changed enough or at all....KNOW THAT YOU HAVE!!!!!!
those of you who are not in mc.....its time to stop procrastinating....looking for excuses to fail is not working....unless of course failing is really the intention.....
turn over every stone that needs to be turned so that when and if the time comes to say you are done, you will do so KNOWING that you did all that you genuinely could....and even if you opt not to walk away, but decide to remain married in spite of knowing it is no longer what you really want, then again, you will do so knowingly exactly where you stand....limbo is for parties not for living....
stepping back out now.....
and thank you everyone for missing me....its nice to be missed...
and laura i now have a new laugh for the day..."fucking ducks" just rings so funny to me....and "fucking ducks excited in the grass".....it sound so bizarre that you wonder how it could be real, and yet you know it is, which makes it even funnier...and i am sorry i find it so amusing...i hope you don't think me crass....
part 21 is a comin....must think about decorations....
Some of them ARE randy little things!!!
Anyway, I hope you are well.
As for the new decor - I think that the men suffered enough in this thread thru our talk about cabana boys, etc. that we should let them choose.
Maybe, it should be like a lakeside campground. I could make that work as long as there were some pop-up trailers or something. O - and a decent bathroom/shower. O and running water & electric nearby.
ETA: We are also going to have to go down South for this campground cuz it's too cold for me here in NY already.
[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 6:12 AM, November 6th (Saturday)]
These are pains you need to adapt. I am glad to see you in IC. Let me share something with you. IC are only a small fraction of what you need to recover. You are going to have to reach deep into your soul and somehow rip it out of your depression… It starts with you. You need something positive… you need to pick yourself up and dust off the dust… YOU are the one… and you have the brain power to do it. It takes many baby steps.
Your W is fucked up bad my friend. IMO, she is not your solution to healing you, nor sounds like she is the one for you. She needs her own life right now because she is so lost and she is going to be lost for a long time. I feel in my soul that you need a fresh start. Your W is bringing you down.
No matter what you do moving forward… pain is going to be there. Like me too and other’s here… it hurts no matter in R or not.
I prayed to God… oh please give me a sign and he did… I question what the heck did that rainbow mean??? And now I know. Once you experience the hurt, it is with you forever. It is looking ahead, moving ahead, forging ahead with confidence, no fear, with the goals you set for happiness, fun, and excitement that will set you free! YOU have to reach into your soul and grab a life back now!
You must somehow make a decision… You are 4 months out from dday. Your wife must make a decision. It is simple. I want to Reconcile, do you? If she says anything other than YES, then YOU need to start the divorce. You cannot control what other's do... If she is not certain, then she is not your partner in life and you need a partner. You will survive it.. You will find a new partner. You will be happy again with the right person. Someone in Texas wants you so badly right now and you might not see it but someone is praying for you to come into there life... it's fate... You will feel better in good time. Don’t wait… If you both say yes, then you work hard on your marriage! You work hard on yourself… you learn how to forgive.. you learn how to keep boundaries that protect what you have… you work hard to gain strength that you won’t allow further abuse… and you know 100% that you will leave if you are abused.. O% chance for 2nd chance.
I make my post recently with one message….God answered my prayers… NO MATTER if you stay and R or not… The pain will last a long time after infidelity… it is with you forever! FOREVER! It is ok to cry about it.. our minds are designed for it. My decision is final about my feeling that every week.. This is life...
You have allowed your wife to bring you down to cost you your livelihood. DON’T ALLOW IT! Don’t allow your depression to stop you from working… FIGHT IT! FIGHT….FIGHT you mind and shake it off! Take 2 – 3 hours everyday and LOOK hard for a job.. Write a resume… have friends check it.. call all your friends and tell them you need a new job…. Send it out to companies you know are looking for someone different... expect rejection but fate will hand you the right position... Don’t fall into any types of addictive TRAPS! Don’t drink! NO DRUGS… Do not touch your W physically in anyway.. RUN AWAY if you feel it coming.. RUN OUT THE DOOR!
Having your W live in your house with you is a bad idea. IF she cannot agree to R, then asked her in a very kind way..”leave”… Asked her to please have the decency to move out. Asked her to go be with her lover! Please leave you so you can find you way again… do it out of kindness to you… You need some courage! Strengths!
YOU ARE NOT GOING to feel any better without some sort of change.. solid choices... MAKE IT SO!!! DO IT! I am sure you needed to get "Fired" This is the way you are going to come out of your depression! It is change... you need it.. Heck, we all have been "fired".. I have twice! It hurts but I always land on my feet even better than before.. you will too if you act postive! YOu can do this!!!!!!!
[This message edited by trynhard at 6:59 AM, November 6th (Saturday)]
Sometimes, the more I think about it, the more confused I get. I dunno why I even try to understand the incomprehensible. My mind just isn’t wired that way.
I am able to recognize that stayingwith my H has many benefits, but it is unquestionably a relationship with limits. I will not trust, love, nor respect him the way I did. Doesn't mean I'm better off without him tho.
Laura, those thoughts just send you round in circles. Yes, you do become a sort of AP. You become the focus of their attention and it’s the uncertainty of the relationship that makes them look at you anew. It is a longing and desperation to not lose something they are very close to losing. They didn’t realise it until it happened. Like having a car crash and walking away knowing you could be killed makes you look at everything with a new appreciation.
DP, good advice from Tryn’. Are you still in that situation where she isn’t committed to R? It’s time she chose one side or the other and got down off the fence.
See you all at the new house. Address part 21.
Don’t throw money at the problem and send me off on holiday when what I really need is for him to appreciate how I feel and how things have changed and how we are going to accommodate that change. Fuck. I’ve used that phrase before:
Before you read this, I hope you have written your piece about the aspects of our lives that you would like to see a change, a bit of Men are from Mars, Women from Venus, and where you think we are going from here. We seem to have reached a point where we should assess what each of us wants and whether or not the other is willing to accommodate or change.
July 2004. He never did address it. Well, that’s because he was fucking his girlfriend. Why the fuck would he want to change things when they were just fine as they were for him? Would he want me to be willing to “accommodate” his girlfriend shag-piece, for example??
Sorry. I’m in a real venting mood. I’m stomping off again. This time to the gym.
The new campsite address will have to be far to the south to be comfortable. It is in the 60's here in SWFL and we are all freezing. BTW, last weekend we bicycled to a local park (17 mile trip) and FWW talked of camping. Last night she had me make a reservation for one night! She NEVER camps, but this is near home, nearer to stores and shopping, and a very nice little location on a river. We will see how it works. She says she used to be a tomboy, but she has always been a girly girl since I have known her.
((UKgirl)), your H is giving you a gift of showing you who he really is. Not all gifts are fun, but they are all valuable.
I used to wonder what on earth they found to text/talk about.
I still do. This is one of the areas of the A not well explained or discussed. What I am told is it was mostly about work. In my obsessive days I plotted all of the calls and texts on a spreadsheet. The calls were nearly every day M-F, and the texts every day. Calls were often 20 minutes or more, some to an hour. These are just the cell phone calls I had records for, and do not include desktop phones and emails from work. There had to be more talked about, but I will never know those details.
Hi iwam, nice to hear from you. II appreciate your wise words. This week my lessons I am trying to assimilate into my life are we create what we fear and we teach people how to treat us.
Hi Laura, what kind of ducks? For eggs I am guessing penciled runners? They really are funny ducks. We raised ducks for a while when we lived in Ohio and had a small farm. We almost bought a larger property to go into the business near fulltime. FWW was afraid to take the risk so she killed the plan. I believe she regrets that action now, I know I do. It was a beautiful piece of property.
During Hs last A with OW3 he almost never talked to me. Most days he would be grumpy and snappy so I avoided him. I felt very depressed and as though I had no one to share anything with. I detached. I actually liked it when I was at home and he was at work.
I know exactly what you are feeling, I felt the same. It is really sad how much of our lives were wasted while our WS's were out "looking for love in all the wrong places"
FWW came out from IC today in an upset mood. He had her looking back at her life and re-evaluating it with her new perceptions. She did not want to talk much about it, but I sense she is grieving what could have been for not just our 20 year M, but most of her adult life. Despite her not enjoying these IC sessions in general, and yesterday specifically, she did re-schedule for next week.
She has been very supportive of my situation working with her OM. She cannot fix it, but she empathizes, and does not run from discussing it when I want to, just a couple of times. She acknowledges that she has been able to walk away from the A time and feelings, but I am left with this reminder.
I appreciate everyone's expressions of concern and anger over working with the OM. It is hard to focus on the present and not think back when I have to interact with him. There is no way to avoid interacting with him without appearing petty. I am a director in my organization; I am expected to be professional. Also, I have some specific and unique skill sets. They are not needed every day, but when they are, I am the only one unless they hire a consultant. In fact, my knowledge is often used to evaluate the reports from other consultants upset clients have hired.
I have tried to teach the OM how he and his staff can do this specific work themselves, but after 3 tries going back to before dday he cannot figure it out. It is not complicated stuff, but he really is stupid and an a**hole. That is what makes knowing FWW was happy with him for over a year so very painful. That, and the fact he knows she was happy with him too.
My new M and W are waiting for me. I have to put away the past hurts, humiliation, and sense of being wronged. I have to trust my W now. I have to trust me. This is hard; a part of me misses the drama of the first year post dday. I do not mind getting angry band arguing with FWW, this is what M couples do. I want the crap from the A to be gone. I am tired of thinking of thinking of her talking happily and flirty with them for hours and hours each week, texting updates, being their SO, being with them and sharing her body with them.
Hugs to all the Tribe.
[This message edited by atsenaotie at 7:58 AM, November 6th (Saturday)]
The fact is he is putting himself into a situation – again – that he could find very attractive and tempting
Thankfully, with the exception of a few occasions, my H appears to have put himself into exile, otherwise any drinking event would concern me. But, the holiday season is approaching. I'm curious to see if he is even going to ask to go to the Xmas party...
Alright - that's got to be it for me today.
Peace to all.
[This message edited by old dipstick at 9:24 AM, November 6th (Saturday)]