I know I did the best I could with what was happening at the time, but, I don't believe WH did. I never felt I was true priority, whereas, there was a time that me and the kids were a priority with xWH.
There is the difference between a short term affair and LTA. There are some WS's that are basically good that made a mistake that wasn't like them, but then the ones like with LTA, where there is something inherently wrong.....with them. They chose US carefully, good forgiving people who put up with a lot. Trusting people.
Sorry, this has become a ramble.
Gotta go. FWH just got back from the gym.........: shocked:
UK.. yes the second year was full of emotions for me. For the most part in my second year, I did live for today and for the most part I was happy. I admit I cry about every week or at least once… maybe on occasion 2 or 3 times. It was hurt, sulky, turned to me placing myself in some sort of fantasy in my own mind… and always started when something reminded me of infidelity… a song, there hotel brand, Tiger Woods… on and on… turning into an imaginary meditation of some sorts.. what I should have done.. could have done… Why why.. on and on until I just end up crying... lol
The thing is… I can control these emotions. I can turn my mind into a different direction should I want. I can also continue down that path. It just seems like every week I just continue down that path. It’s like.. I want to feel those emotions again.
Iwantamiracle… I’m not going to hurt my wife in any way so I am going to have to think about telling her that I still have some hurt. I know telling her would not make her feel good about herself... and my goal is to make her feel good about herself. I come here to tell you because I can… I like my marriage relationship… What I don’t like is the hurt that comes from my thinking about infidelity but maybe it is healthy for me to have these emotions? I still believe time is a cure… but I now understand this pain is life sentence…as we have all discuss before… Sometime I just need some reinforcement. Thank you all…
Peace out folks and thanks for all the listening… My only advice this round of post… stay positive and do things that make you happy… Look for me tonight at the Colt Monday night football game… I’ll be with my beautiful wife.. and a beer.
[This message edited by trynhard at 2:59 PM, November 1st (Monday)]
There's a difference between justified and productive though.
Look, if you ask me, he's just not that into me. I have no idea why he doesn't leave. Stubbornness? Doesn't feel like paying child support? Would miss the kids if he doesn't see them every day? I doubt any of it is me, no matter how many times he says "I'm the love of his life" or whatever.
Anyway, like tryn says present and future looking. I'm going to have to stick to my short-term goals for right now, in their proper order of priority, because it's all I can handle. I don't have what it takes right now to think too many moves ahead.
[This message edited by deeppurple at 3:25 PM, November 1st (Monday)]
Look, if you ask me, he's just not that into me. I have no idea why he doesn't leave. Stubbornness? Doesn't feel like paying child support? Would miss the kids if he doesn't see them every day? I doubt any of it is me, no matter how many times he says "I'm the love of his life" or whatever
I feel the same way.
Part of me understands that we had distanced ourselves prior to his A, his A made it worse & DDay brought it to a whole different level. So, I undestand those "loving feelings" don't return right away and I understand in my "new" emotional state, it may be hard to fall in love with me all over again. I get that. I've even said that to him - that I understand how it would be hard to feel that way about me under these circumstances. He just denies, etc.
Like I said yesterday, he has been trying more, I just don't know how genuine it is. It could just as easily be a reaction to what he believes is me getting ready to pull the plug on this whole little social experiment of ours.
Anyway - just wanted to let you know you are not alone in this regard.
Tryn, it is especially nice to see you post that you check in and peek from time to time. You got a lot of advice today to let your FWW know how you feel, when there is still pain form the A. Months ago I questioned in my mind how well you were really doing in R, because it seemed to me that you were stuffing some feelings to make things work. That you had a very rough first year, but that after that you decided to do whatever it took to R with your W. I thought that your approach was wrong, but now I am not so sure. I do some of the same in that I almost never tell FWW when I have pain or thoughts about A. If I were to trigger hard she would know, and I would tell her, but the little passing tweaks, I let them go. As I think you are doing, I balance the benefit to me versus the harm to FWW to talk about the intimate details that catch at me sometimes. There is also trust. While I trust FWW day to day going forward, I do not at all trust that she will answer an embarrassing and uncomfortable question about the A's if she thinks I will never know. Maybe she has/is telling me the whole truth about the A's, but I do not trust that she is. The thing is, I am building trust for the future, and the past is just that.
Along the lines of TT and minimizing. It occurred to me today that FWW spent 4 years hiding feelings and activities with the OM. It is no small wonder that the anxiety she felt about accidently exposing some of this behavior would carry forward and she would still feel intense anxiety talking about the A.
allgoodnamesgone, I am glad your H is making some correct moves. Hopefully they will persist and expand. I often complained that FWW was a day late and a dollar short in doing what she needed to do, but at least she was (sllooowwllyy ) headed in the right direction. Not as fast as I wanted, but at least doing something. When they talk about the 2 - 5 year period to R, I always thought in terms of the BS perspective. I expected WW to snap out of it, do a behavioral about face, and be there to help me along . I can laugh at that thinking now. It may be that it is FWW that will need 2 - 5 years to heal.
((m334455)), you are sounding down today m3. I miss drinking with abandonment, but since dday it has not been healthy for me. I was always a fun, and well maintained drunk. There is now an angry (hurt, resentful? I am still working on identifying my emotions) side that comes out after many drinks. I have not quit, but I am sticking to self-imposed limits and doing better. I also do better catching a buzz than drinking s the pot has always tended to tranquilize me. Liquor is just cheaper and easier to get.
Yesterday was shaping up as a stressful evening. I started unloading tasks to stay balanced. FWW got upset that I was not going to wear the costume I had assembled (because I could help in the kitchen and otherwise assist better in plain clothes), and that I was not going to eat the food I was fixing for her and her work people (I was fixing what she said they wanted, but it was not something I would ever eat). At the last minute plans collapsed (independent of us) and it was a fun and stress free Halloween Night.
Today FWW and I were off of work to take down Halloween decorations. She talked about the night before. She told me she understood I was off-loading tasks to better help with her event, but she felt angry that I would be upset that I could not wear my costume; we could not drink any, etc. Then she said she realized that she should feel happy that I am willing to forego some of my plans to help and support her. She said that she is not to the point that those feelings come naturally, but she can see that would be the healthier response and take away her guilt feelings while at the same time casting me in a positive rather than negative light. I stopped what I was doing, went over and hugged FWW and said thank you. For most of our M I have been especially frustrated that when I set my desires aside to help her or one of her DD’s, it would be thrown back at me that I was not happy enough while helping. Now I was usually not being bitchy, but if the situation was hectic or unstructured I would be focused on thinking what needed to be done and not very chatty. She would project her guilt and anxiety on to me, and be upset with me. It was so very nice to hear FWW work through that. We also talked about some of the events from the past that she has carried with her as resentments, and how she sees them very differently now from her new perspective. She also discussed some of her recent triggers.
I am beginning to believe there are some fundamental differences for the BS of a WW versus a WH. I am not yet at the fully formed thought yet, but I think that the general advice for BS with a WH needs to be tweaked for the BS with a WW. Maybe not, I will keep ruminating on this.
Final though, I told SWW I wanted a couple of hours for intimate time with her Saturday night while DS was out with friends. She was accommodating, we had plenty of time, and the sex was just very…. Not so good. Sigh…. If we do a thing she knows I knew she did with OM she worries how I am feeling and I (yes, stupid, I know) worry if I am doing it as well as him. Anything else I wonder if they did it this way, if anything is different I wonder if she learned it from one of them.
[This message edited by atsenaotie at 6:43 PM, November 1st (Monday)]
I know how you feel about the sex thing...I do try to compartmentalize and often am successful in doing that but... I still think about the LTA and the OW every time.
And, Ats...I do agree with you that there are some things that are different about dealing with a WH as opposed to a WW.
Sending you some hugs...
It sounds as if you have been processing a lot of what has happened...
Remember...you are a wonderful woman....your WH is the one that is deeply flawed.
Good night all.
I can see where a WW may be more inclined to actually work on the marriage from a therapeutic standpoing, as it necessarily involves a lot of attention, emotion, etc that she may have been missing. Idk - just throwin it out there. All I know is that my H being a kind of typical guy's guy makes it flippin impossible to discuss emotions, etc.
allgoodnamesgone, That is a part of it, a big part. FWW has embraced the therapy even though she at times dislikes being in IC and would prefer it all be MC. The other part is that Men tend to be fixers, we fix problems. It would seem that if a BS gave a WH a list of things to be done and he was interested in fixing the M they would all get done. The other issue is that men are more experienced at pursuing and winning over a W though through dating. I would think as a WS I would have lots of attempts and ideas at "wooing" my BS if I was interested in R. FWW being a good W, but there is very little pursuit or activity designed to win me back.
I could be all wrong with this, and maybe it is FWW's personality that I perceive rather than M/F differences. I guess I feel like if I were a WS and wanted to R I would be all out making the effort, but maybe not. Maybe the embarrassment, shame, and shock of who I really was would shut me down.
njgal480, than you for the feedback. I am hoping the sex thing gets better. Right now it is so infrequent an event that it becomes too important KWIM? I am going to start telling her when we need to do it more frequently and try to take some of the uniqueness out of the event.
On the positive side, while IU do think of the A’s, and can wander that path as Tryn put it, it does seem to not be too bad. I hope it is not all going to come rushing back out at some point in the future (hey, I gotta have something to worry about). FWW says the IC/MC will be calling me in for a session. I feel like I am being called to the Principal’s office.
FWW is going out of town on business in two weeks. We wanted both of us to go, but could not get coverage for DS. I feel OK with her travel, safe I mean. There are no other men (for her) in OK so far as I know. Still, I suspect it will be a stressful 4 days. I was surprised how much I triggered two weeks ago just being in a hotel suite when I travelled without her.
allgoodnames, I forgot to include:
...women who have affairs are usually doing it to fill an emotional void.
First OM she thought she would ultimately leave me for, and she told second OM she loved him. In addition to specifics of sex, how she felt about OM and what intimate things they said to each other are the big areas of the A's never really discussed much. I am not sure that I want to know at this point, and if she is being honest it does not help because I do not believe her That is the worst part, that after 7 months of TT and mostly lying, I cannot belive anything "good" now (as good as a relationship with AP can be).
[This message edited by atsenaotie at 8:45 PM, November 1st (Monday)]
For months and months now, my wife and I have not discussed her affair. I am telling you that she is treating me very well and I think it is because she feels better about herself and us. True, we have been in a few argument but we have worked through every conflict safely and openly. I do choose to not bring up her affair because I strongly believe it is part of my forgiving her. At some point in the marriage, it just can never be discussed or thrown in there face again. These feelings are all hurtful, sad, not good feelings so why harp on them? It is just what you do so that the person that harmed you won’t feel guilty any more. I really do accept I hurt and that is part of life right now. Should I ever decide I need to be single or need another woman to stop these feelings, I will make a change. I am not afraid of change anymore. My confidence is back too. I can go on and on about the good weekend we had… last night was fun…
I can tell her I need her to touch me more, make love to me more, make dinner more, affirm me more… and have all these things…. But I still hurt when I think about what has happened. I can come here and post, or not post.. I still hurt if I allow my mind to go that way.
It is what it is…. I’m now 100% sure a peace is gone forever… I’m sure it fades in time, but it’s gone. I can cry today when I place my mind in that place of fantasy, vision, day dream… or deflect it. So today, I am in a good relationship, but when I think about cheaters, I hurt... lol
What I gained from my experience is today I can relate to others in the same situation today and cry about it. Something I could never do before.
Oh well.. off to have a good week…
[This message edited by trynhard at 7:00 AM, November 2nd (Tuesday)]
My H is mad at me. He feels I should do this for him...these are his "brothers", he has to work with them and they have done nothing to me. Well, I beg to differ. They covered for him, they harbored the "secrets". They are NOT his brothers, they are co-workers, not friends, they are nothing.
I do like the woman that is leaving and I will send her a card wishing her well. That's it. I don't think I'm wrong..what would you do?
It's so triggery!!
My W takes the approach your H takes concerning discussing emotions and things of that nature. Well if it is her feelings and not A related she will go on and on about how she feels without me even asking. I think she is not willing to discuss my feelings since she is afraid that will lead to some sort of A related talk. A few weeks ago I told her that my needs were not being met. (That was one of her reasons for having OM.) She actually got pissed off and said that all of that was in the past and I just needed to forget all that stuff and get over it. Hells bells, I had not even mentioned the A, she just thought I was going to. Now that is a real preemptive strike. BTW, my "needs" still have not been met. I was probably closer to getting some before I decided to express my feelings.
Damn. That is a bad deal. These WSs just do not seem to understand how all of this can impact anyone but them. I hope things can turn around for you.
Good to hear from you. I have been wondering how things were going.
I don't know that I ever had thoughts/fantasys about other women while having sex with my W. I know that many people say they do. Now after all this A crap I sometimes have thoughts about OM. When I do get to have sex that is.
Hugs to the tribe.
DP, just read this:
Tomorrow I get a final written warning at work.
why you haven't asked your H directly about his lack of physical attention to you that night. If this is a natural behavior for the two of you and this night was an exception I would at least want to know how he would respond to questions from you. Also, this HS reunion. Are spouses invited? Personally there would only be two options for my H if he wanted to go. First, that I attend with him and second that he not go at all.
(((((m33))))) Just want to send you some hugs, I think you need and deserve some. You deserve every compliment dished out but I have to agree with miracle. I think you do hold too many plates spinning in the air. Give yourself a break and don’t be so hard on yourself. There are no hard and fast rules here. It’s so much easier when life is laid out by structure of routine, calendars, must-do lists, keeping up with work, friends and family. Then the rug gets pulled out and those plates start falling, the routine is out of kilter and the debris is scattered far and wide. It’s very difficult to keep a grasp on the priorities when everything seems to be a priority. As for trying to keep a face on things in front of people who don’t know, well, I sometimes wonder how we do it. Offload a bit if you can, and have some downtime for you.
They chose US carefully, good forgiving people who put up with a lot. Trusting people.
I still believe time is a cure… but I now understand this pain is life sentence…
Ats – I think we all feel the same way about the sex thing. HB is great - until it wears off! The answer for me is to just stop or to do what I want rather than going the way that is being steered by him or the situation. But yes, I still wonder if he did things this way or said that or touched the same or if her responses were different to mine, but I do try to keep them out. If I can’t, I just stop. Go and make a cup of tea or something!!! I love that your WW is coming around. Your determined line seems to be working.
Dipstick, I get “the look” if I talk about how I feel. Which is odd since H is always asking if I’m okay or what I’m thinking about.
There seems to be a general thing going on about staying v leaving. WH’s bf persuaded me to give it a year. I figured it would be a year of shit anyway, so I might as well give it my best shot. Somehow, each TT was never enough by itself to call it a day, so I carried on. I would ask myself if I would be happier with or without FWH and the answer was usually that I couldn’t imagine my life without being with him. Sometimes I think I should have kicked him out for a while within the first few weeks and should definitely have told him to not come home after I found out he was still texting her. But that was then and I didn’t know about SI. One thing I did do that I would recommend to everyone – even if you plan to say. See a lawyer and find out exactly what the situation would be if you did divorce. It gives clarity with regard to the practical side of things and stops the mind wondering when doing the stay/leave inner debate. Sometimes leaving just seems easier. To walk away and start afresh – both scary and inviting. Maybe if I had a whole “other life” calling me, maybe if the LTA was the last straw in a less than satisfactory marriage, maybe if I had turned around and had a revenge affair, maybe if I simply didn’t love my H, I would have done it. I looked at the package that was my marriage; the history, the investment, the family, of how difficult it would be to untangle everything that was us, of the hurt caused by pulling all that apart – and I couldn’t do it. I fantasised about it a lot. I still do from time to time. But I also suspect my WH also spent time thinking about leaving and probably discussing it with MOW too. He would never admit to it, but I think he did and wonder if I should just let him have what he wished for – even if he doesn’t wish for it now. It all adds to my state of being “unmarried” and still not wearing a ring. I don’t have a foot pointing to the door – but I know where it is!
She does not want or need sex, but is willing to do anything for me to meet my needs. In high school I probably would have been OK with that, but I would really like sex to be a mutual experience; not her "gift" to me all the time. I guess it could be worse and she would just not be willing to do anything, but I miss the mutual aspect of the act I thought we had. I guess I feel as if it reinforces that she is "committed" to me rather than in love with me. Maybe it just means I am a whiny and unappreciative asshole. allgoodnamesgone, I did like your comment that there is no more reason for FWW to be thinking of Om than there was for her to be thinking of previous husbands or boyfriends. I think that will help me relax and believe she is only thinking of tomorrow’s shopping or Harrison Ford when we are having sex.
This morning I arrived to work and opened an email from OM#1, he is the one I helped to hire here where I work while he and FWW were having their A in 2006. There is an issue in his area that I need to work with him on to resolve. No one else in my organization is better qualified to help with this problem. I set the precedent of working with them for this type of thing before I knew of his involvement with FWW (I always wondered why he behaved like such an asshole around me, and then I find out he was having an A with my wife and encouraging her to move in with him. I hate this, I really hate putting on the nice public face and working with him as a team. I hate composing polite emails back to him explaining the issues and the actions we need to take. I hate thinking of my wife being with him and planning to leave me for him. It is raining, I did not sleep last night, and I fucking hate this.
nofun, they are not friends of the M, you do not need to go and neither does your FWS.
So dip, what do you think the response would be if you went outside of your W to get your needs met, and then told her not to worry about it, it was all in the past?
Then said her fathers affairs had no impact on her…
Peace to you. I hope you get the e-mail off early and don't have to deal with him any more.
I hate the no sleeping stuff, too. I haven't been lately; too many visitors, I hate this time of year because it's when OW really started setting her sights on WH and making wildly inappropriate comments to him, and he was either too stupid or too flattered by the office freakshow to see what she was up to. And so I've been feeling completely "off" for several weeks. WH has been asking how I am (because my behavior makes him nervous). I shrugged it off as long as I could but yesterday threw a 25-minute phone hissy fit and of course WH responded to that crisis because that is what WH does. Pitching fits, calling WH and boohoohoo-ing all over themselves, playing the victim card, acting like WH controls whether they live or die... that's how his twin brother and OW manipulate/d him into doing what they want/ed him to do, and now I'm lowering myself to their pathetic level and WH is responding to it. (Asshole.) This is my cycle, and I do not like it. And now I'm angry at myself for pitching a fit and I'm angrier at WH for responding to it. He was acting all caring and lovey-dovey with me yesterday evening and this morning (responding to the crisis, not to my needs, please note) and I just want to punch him in his lying stupid weak-a$$ idiot face.
Okay, I just read over that last paragraph and made myself laugh. I mean, it's true, but holy cow. I have never been much for anger but if there were a market for that emotion I would have it cornered now! Maybe I should go into politics.
Speaking of which, I will be so glad tomorrow to be done with the horrible political ads and nonstop robo-calls. Yikes.
Ats: I hear ya about having to be professional with OM. As you may remember, OW was a client of mine. So, as soon as I found out, I had to send her a bunch of professional emails so that I could put an end to my continued representation of her. (OW only became my client 1 year into her affair with my H.) I seriously don't know what my H was thinking putting OW in direct contact with his W. I guess he trusted her.
Anyway, it sounds like a recipe for disaster. Must you be the contact person if OM is the only person who can do this job? (Seriously, isn't there anyone else?)
Fun: I don't know what to say. If you are adamant & don't want to go, then don't. Personally, I want to go to my H's work events event tho I am disgusted by the lot of them because I want to appear as a united front. And, because I want to become known to these a-holes.
Now that is a real preemptive strike. BTW, my "needs" still have not been met. I was probably closer to getting some before I decided to express my feelings.
That cracks me up. Sucks tho.
UKGirl: Should I stay or should I go? Tough question. Benefits & drawbacks to both. Not an easy choice. Personally, I am erring on the side of caution and keeping my family together. I gave this a lot of thought over the past few days because my H was working basically the entire last 4 days & I was running around like a single mom & you know what, I think it's the happiest 4 days I've had in a really long time. Now, maybe it's because I was so busy it distracted me from my situation or maybe literally not living with my H is better for me. I dont' know. But, it's all semantics anyway as with the kids, I would be seeing him frequently whether we separated or not.
Popcorn. Not Fritos.
UKG and ATS and all -- thanks for the kind advice.
So -- if I'm spinning too many plates, which one should I drop? Sigh.
I am working on getting back into a routine. I was thinking this morning about how much lists help me and how I stopped making as many because WH made fun of me for them. Now I'm making them again, and it helps, and I don't care anymore if he makes fun of me for them.
This morning, WH wanted to know if he could help me with anything. He asked why I've been cranky for the past few days. What on earth am I supposed to say to that? I really agree with tryn, you do have to not throw it in a person's face after a while. I've known more than a year now. It's my choice to be here. He seems to be NC. So, there you go.
I apologized for being cranky and told him I'd try to do better and that I wasn't sure why I'm cranky. He seemed frustrated that I wouldn't tell him how I was feeling but he let it go.
this is the problem with feelings -- they always well out somehow no matter how hard you try to deflect them.