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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affair Part 20
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 10:41 AM, October 31st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tryn, just a quick question..Did your FWW answer whatever questions YOU felt you needed to know? Or give you a timeline? I'm not talking about every little detail, but answered enought questions for you before you started to feel you were giving her the forgiveness?

I do agree with you that there must come a point that the BS should stop hitting the WS over the head with the A, I guess it's hard to let go of it if one feels that they didn't get enough info, or enough remorse...Maybe for some there never will be enough.

Well, everyone, have a Happy Halloween. Gotta go and bring little DS around for Trick or Treating.

Love to everyone.

{{{{{tribe}}}}


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 3:43 PM, October 31st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hey honest... I hope you are well.. For me, after about a year, I decided to forgive. It just came to a point where we needed to D or move into a great marriage... a great marriage is forgiving. So here I am today.. in a great marriage but I still hurt at times. My wife had the remorse and did all the right things.. yet I still hurt at times and still think about it everyday..

Oh well, happy halloween. I hope you all peace.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 9:15 PM, October 31st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tryn: good to hear from you & glad to see you & your wife are well. (Well, I'm sorry to see that you are still sad, but glad you are still able to keep your focus on the now.)

(Keeping my fingers crossed): this past week has been good.

I guess my statement that maybe our relatinship had run its course made some kind of impact on my H, because he actually did a few things I asked him to do about 100x. (I'm being totally serious - I'm happy about this! )

He's initiated more phone/text contact with me, he's actually show some understanding & appreciation for what I do & more than once at that! I actually found myself kind of gravitating toward him and being affectionate without thinking about it first. (Prior to this, I was just doing things I think should be done without really feel like doing it at all.)

So, this is a good thing.
And, I assume as a result, I seem to have gotten thru a very triggery day without triggering.

Also good.

Hope all is well.

And
UKGirl: I sort of disagree with the consensus - what you described doesnt raise any red flags with me - but what you are describing as having been typical for the 2 of you (as far as physical touch, etc.) is foreign in my M - so I might just be off the mark completly.
But, I do agree that if YOU thinks it's strange - then I guess keep your eyes WIDE open.

Hope everyone had a good Halloween!


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:31 AM, November 1st (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgoodnamesgone... Sorry, I just cannot go back and catch up on you… but want you to know I do care and pray for you all… allgood, you sound good. It sounds like your H is deciding to love you... I still discuss what I need with my wife. People learn through repetition. My wife always says and does whatever I need (btw.. I credit Retrouvaille for this in a safe good way) I can see my wife all she does for me now and I should be happy… I am in many ways but I’m still hurt.

I can handle my hurt as it is just part of me now. I thought I was coming out but could it be continued depression? I'm not sure. Just a song will come on while driving or jogging can set me into a thinking about…
- how I should have done this or that.. I re-live what I should have done different.
- how stupid I was to not act or do things when my gut feelings happened
- my wife gave me three heartfelt apologies and I cry when I re-live them in my mind.
- when I vision her loving the men she did

I think back to years in my life and I only cried maybe twice in 20 years… Now I admit I cry about once every week. They are short cries maybe lasting maybe 10 seconds or so… What the hell does that mean? I can even cry watching a movie now. I can shift my mind and not do it but I don’t. I’m sure my counselor would say.. “just don’t do it”… lol…

Anyway, on Friday while coming back from a business trip, I thought about leaving my Wife. I debated in my head for over an hour. Pros and Cons… will this stop me from crying? Will this stop my obsessions? I think about my mom moving on mentally from my father to my stepfather… will that move me toward greater happiness? Did my mom really not hurt at all? I know I would really enjoy a new woman. Am I staying out of fear? I prayed to God to please give me a sign and help me… then a few minute later I see this in the sky… I don’t ever remember seeing anything like this before??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oF967AhA0jA

So I googled the meaning of seeing this… when you see something like that it is showing us how blessed we are in this world.... peace answered by cupid.

So today, it is my choice to stay and continue to love my wife, even though I still hurt. It is not a lie that I choose to love her. I don’t want her to know I still hurt because it will make her feel guilty. That is a decision I make. I touch her because I want to make her feel good. I make sure things are done around the house that pleases her as my love of service to her. I say things to affirm her as love. I spend time just talking.. the love of quality time. I know what I get in return.. it is the same.

[This message edited by trynhard at 7:34 AM, November 1st (Monday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 7:49 AM, November 1st (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tryn: that rainbow cloud is breathtaking.....it would seem that every time you have doubts you are sent a message to allay them.....you have one really powerfully strong spirit on your side...

you know how you always talk about retrovaille....right...well does retrovaille teach you to withhold feelings from each other.......this is something i have always disagreed with my friend....i think you should share with your wife....shutting her out of your pain in not conducive to a working relationship....by shutting her out you take away an opportunity for her to help you feel better, for her reach out in return which could further strengthen your relationship....way too many marriages do not share these types of feelings...and it usually does not lead to good places....while i don't think she needs to be knocked over by it, i do think you underestimate that she may really want to help through your bad moments....i just think it is the least she could do for you......shutting each other out is just not good....


(((tryn)))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 8:01 AM, November 1st (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UKG - I read your post about that evening and can't help but wonder why you haven't asked your H directly about his lack of physical attention to you that night. If this is a natural behavior for the two of you and this night was an exception I would at least want to know how he would respond to questions from you. Also, this HS reunion. Are spouses invited? Personally there would only be two options for my H if he wanted to go. First, that I attend with him and second that he not go at all.
I know you have the attitude that "if he cheats he cheats on himself" but from your posts there are several xHSgf's and truthfully I don't understand his need to put himself in this environment. I agree with ATS - I enjoyed that period of my life years ago but they are part of my past. I don't have any interest in reliving them. Frankly I don't understand your H's need to do this.
Little lightbulb moment. Our FWS's are always asking us to put their past behind us so I'm going to assume your H asks this of you too. I would ask him to put this need of revisiting his past behind him and maybe this will make it a bit easier for you to return the favor to him.
I absolutely demanded that my H give up everything and everyone associated with his LTA "past." If he wasn't willing to do this then I wasn't willing to stay and R.
There are just too many negative and potentially tempting associations for my liking. This is just MHO of course.
I am very curious to know why it is your H still needs to go back and revisit his past. IMHO again, it is high time he moved on and started living in the present, just as he hopes you will too.

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 8:03 AM, November 1st (Monday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 8:28 AM, November 1st (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

but the life she is leading now is no life nor an example for our kids.

First of all DP, I'd like to welcome you to our little corner of SI. Sorry it took me so long.
I was confused by this line and by some other things in your post but perhaps I missed a post that explained your situation. Is your W still involved in her A? Also, you've mentioned several times that she has taken pregnancy tests. Would there be a chance that if she was pregnant the baby would be yours??? or are you assuming it would be the OM's? Sorry for the questions but I think I've missed some of your earlier posts.
I am amazed how well you are dealing with your situation. Are you getting any signs that your W is coming out of her fog and wants to attempt R with you?
What are the two of you doing in terms of IC'in or MC'ing? Sorry for all of the questions but I've been a little confused with your situation. Either way, I am sure you have found out that this is a very supportive and caring group and you will find a great deal of comfort here among friends. (DP)))
Tryn - welcome back. I loved your rainbow link. So beautiful. And I love the symbolism of it too. As Miracle said, you always seem to have a positive sign when you are feeling a little sad. Do you remember a post of mine when I was feeling sad and walked into church a little late and the reading was, "Remember not the things of long ago, see I am doing something different." That was so amazing. We need these signs and thank heavens someone up there is sending them to us at exactly the right moment.
Allgood - it was so good to read your post. I loved that your H is beginning to really see what it is he needs to do to help and did such a fine job this weekend. I really loved that you found yourself being affectionate and it feeling so natural. This is just what we need when we are working so hard to R. So, so happy for you!
Miracle - good to see you again. I loved what you wrote to Tryn. I completely and totally agree with you. Tryn - just because you share those sad times with your W does not mean that you are beating her up over the A. You have every right to let her know when you're struggling and like Miracle said, she may be very happy to help you through those times. I always gave my H the opportunity to help me during my darkest times and each time he came through for me brought us closer and gave me more hope for my M.
Give it a try, won't you??


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 9:48 AM, November 1st (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Grace,

I have to read more but I want to disagree with ATS right away. We have another poster her (usually lurks now as his Dday was 2 years ago.) His "name" is trynhard and I would say that his marriage survived. he swears by Retrouvaille.

I would also suggest anti-depressants. Sleeping 3 or 4 hours a day is not normal.

Is your OM married? If so, you should tell his BW. I'm the pot calling the kettle black here though because I did not tell OW's BH.

Anyway, we get nasty about our WS's sometimes, but I'll try to tone it down.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 9:52 AM, November 1st (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UKG --

The thing about not snooping for deeppurple is because he's not in R. He knows she's still in the A. Snooping is only twisting the knife. He's just hurting himself. If they R -- then there needs to be transparency and he needs to be able to check anything and everything. But until then -- mitigate the pain.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 9:56 AM, November 1st (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Grace,

Laura's tone is good for you. Laura's Dday was very recent--as was yours. She's probably closer to where your BH is.

Sorry guys I'm trickling this. I can't make notes here, LOL.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 10:18 AM, November 1st (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you ladies..

Iwantamiracle… Retrouvaille teaches a “desire builder” you live your life in a “present and Future” Focused. Funny how FF says the same… My wife is doing that because she needs it. I know her seeing my hurt is like nothing she’s ever experienced. I am the one still having a problem living the past. I don’t need more information… It’s just those times I think about what has happened to me is when I hurt.

I have learned how to communicate to my wife what I think I need to focus on now in a very safe way for her. She always tries hard to change and do what the things to make our marriage better… She gave me some very heartfelt apologies, she took full responsibility. She took all the shit I slung at her for a year. To bring up her failings in life after she is doing all the right things just seems to me like punishing her. What can I possible ask for her to do that will help me? I cannot be sheltered from the celebrity after celebrity constantly committing adultery and in the news. We are always going to have songs about cheating or movies that hit my heart reminding my brain of that pain.

I'm not sure..but I think this is on me. It’s like I need someone to tell me to… “Just stop it!” “quit your crying” “So What, it happened and you can’t change it”… I know how to shift my thoughts when I go there.. I just don't. Sometime I'm starting to think I need to cry just to feel that feeling... it brings me to a place today I have never felt before.. It's hard to explain... maybe it keeps me "alive".. "thoughtful".. "Compassionate"

Maybe I’m almost ready to enter the letting go part of my grief? or part of my action planning.. lol

[This message edited by trynhard at 10:30 AM, November 1st (Monday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 10:23 AM, November 1st (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FNF --

deeppurple and his WW are in-house separation and she is actively in her A and not with DP. If she were pregnant the baby would be OM's.

OK -- Grace:
What any of us would want is not important -- it's what your BH wants or would want that's important.

I did have one thought though: your A with OM was on/off. Sometimes a year off or more(?). My WH had an on/off thing that lasted 20+ years and was sometimes off as many as 3 years. So, one year of seemingly good behavior means little. At a minimum it will take 4 years of apparent NC for me to buy into the A really being over. Just a thought.

Party -- Fun. Four families stayed the night.

BUT: the drunker I got the nastier I got. So, I guess I'm going to have to take the advice Miracle was giving ATS a while back and not drink. Bummer.

I just don't know how to let go of the anger. I will find a way. Until then: no drinking around WH.

I feel awful that I put a damper on the party for him.

I think it's interesting that Tryn still entertains fantasies of leaving. I am staying. I told WH and OW on Dday that the only fundamental difference between people who cheat and those who don't is not that they are never tempted -- but that they've made a promise and they decide to keep it.

I'm not martyring myself by keeping the promise. My WH treats me well now. My own personal pain is my own responsibility to deal with.

I am considering asking my WH to file for a D though. The infidelity just completely ruins the marriage for me. It doesn't really matter that I love him or enjoy his company or even that I love seeing my kids every day and that they love him too. The truth is, right now, I just want OUT. They say it takes 2 to 5 years to heal; so I'll wait. In the next 6 months I'm going to exercise more, go to church more, heavily moderate my drinking and do my best to be the very best wife I can be. But it's been nearly a year, and even as a WS my WH deserves more than I'm capable of giving him at this point.

And, personally, despite his protestations of love, blah blah, I don't buy it. He's been so passive. 4 IC visits. He just asked me on a date for the FIRST time since Dday. We promised my IC we'd talk about our relationship like MC at least once a week when we saw him month ago but when I tried my WH totally blew me off. He's a determined man: nothing will stop him from getting what he wants when he puts his mind to it. If he really wanted me rather than her, it would be different. It is my belief that he chose to stay because of the kids and because he figured out that steep child support number.

So, I'll try to do more to heal myself, I'll work harder at it for the next few months, but if it isn't working then I'm going to ask him to consider filing for a D. He can have everything, including custody. I don't care. He really, genuinely broke me and took away everything I loved and cared for. I feel like a ghost in my life. A shadow. He should just leave me. Clearly, he'll find someone else, and I think women are mostly interchangable to him so he'd be just as happy.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 11:06 AM, November 1st (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

m334455...

You sound like this song...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHQo4s1-lQI

we all have felt this... This is all part of R...


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 11:45 AM, November 1st (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tryn: Many times when you have posted about past triggers, you have said that you keep them to yourself because you said you have forgiven your wife and don't want to make her feel guilty.
You also have posted that sometimes you think about leaving and finding a new love.
From experience with my xWH and current WH, those "triggers" you are talking about do get less and less with time, BUT I found that being in a new relationship only serves as a distraction to a point for those wounds. Also, being in a new relationship is very good for our self esteem and ego which makes it easier to deal with those triggers.

I'll give you and non A example. My daughter died at the age of 4 months. For at least 4 years, if I saw a little girl that looked like how I envisioned her to look as she got older (hair, eye color, skin tone, etc), I triggered. In the beginning, the triggers were very strong. But I had my DS's which I could focus on.
Still, 16 years later, there are times I still trigger a bit, but it's more bittersweet.

Tyrn, being in a new relationship will NOT stop the triggers. It may deaden the pain a little, or the new feelings of a new love may distract you and the "high" will be the focus and not the "low".

I also agree with Miracle about your feelings and sharing with your Wife. If these triggers are short lived, and getting fewer and farther between....ok let it go. But if something is strong enough to make you cry, and it's a similar trigger that is doing so, this is something you may need to share with FWW.
Maybe you can just tell her that you still trigger from time to time, she needs to know, otherwise you are holding something back from her in the name of love.
We have all done that, even our WS's. They were upset, but didn't tell us and kept it in....for whatever reason, even out of love or not rocking the boat. But it builds up....you know this Tryn.

You know what I think? I think you should at least tell FWW that you were triggering the other day and saw that rainbow cloud and share that picture with her.
That would be a positive thing. "I was feeling bad, it still happens, but look, a sign that all will be well"


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 11:55 AM, November 1st (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

{{{{{{M3}}}}}

From reading your posts, I can see you are putting such a wonderful effort into healing yourself and moving forward. Like me, I make the effort and then something seems to happen that pulls me down. You are getting up and keeping going in a much stronger way and I admire you for it.
No matter what, the rollercoaster of emotions still hits us....
You are doing the right thing, keep on moving forward, acknowledge those painful feelings. You have had a double betrayal and just had a baby and are working full time. You have a lot on your plate. Allow yourself all the time you need to make a decision.

Actually, I'd advise that right now DECIDE NOT TO DECIDE for 6 months or more. Don't even think about having to make a decision. Take that stress and pressure off yourself and just continue to heal yourself which you are doing a wonderful job with.


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, November 1st (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks honest. My WH just sent me a nice compliment. It made me cry. It felt undeserved. At least he e-mailed it so he doesn't know I bawled.

Your compliment feels undeserved as well. But I thank you for it just the same. When I read it I thought: Pleh. I was passive-aggressive to WH at our party, I didn't make it to work until 1 pm today (nanny and 2 of the kids are sick, but nanny's sister is going to come help out) and I'm bawling because my husband sent me a compliment that feels totally undeserved.

I think I need anger management of some sort.

Anyway, thank you so much, that's very sweet.

I decided. I already did. I'm staying. I don't know if I'll ever be happy but I do know I'm just as likely to be happy with WH as without him. The betrayal is there no matter what I do. It would be rude of me to tell him to file for D. I guess what I would do instead is, if he ever says I'm not doing enough I need to do more, etc. I'll just tell him that this is all I've got.

The compliment:

You are super [M3}. You are commendable at work. You have 4 fabulous kids. You take great care of your husband. You threw a great Halloween party. Talk about balance! You're like one of them 8 year old chinese gymnasts from the last olympics.

I felt like saying it was undeserved and listing my faults and telling him he'd made me cry, da da dah. Instead I just wrote:

Wow. Thanks for the compliments -- they are very thoughtful. They made me smile.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 1:03 PM, November 1st (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

M3: What a wonderful compliment your WH gave you. You are a wonderful person, and he sees it!! Now, you have to acknowledge for YOURSELF that you are!

Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 1:13 PM, November 1st (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

m3: sorry hon but you are feeling anger, justified anger and yes he needs to pull on his big boy pants and deal with it if your marriage is going to have a shot....a year is nothing in a LTA.....NOTHING.....the shock that we experience is so so deep, do not underestimate it......

you are dong the best you can....and i frankly think you are doing too much...i know i am a huge proponent of being proactive...but i get the impression that you not being proactive as you are keeping yourself busy busy...too busy too feel, too busy to deal with your feelings concerning his inactivity in your marriage...

i worry about you.....so much you have gone through, so so much.....i think you need to take some quiet time for you, some reflective time, to allow yourself to feel the hurt i know you feel......it really is the only stupid way to heal....i hate it that we need to feel it to heal it, but that is what we must do....like we haven't felt enough pain....

your plate is overflowing, and you seem to keep adding to it......stop for a bit....and yes no drinking till you get your emotions in check which i am sure will be quite a while....

(((m3)))

and tryn: you still need to share with her...sharing is not the same thing as hitting her with it.....not at all.....and i am sorry but its part of the process every truly remorseful ws needs to deal with, or should deal with...our continued pain....yes it lessens, but it is still there...not everyday for some of you...but still there......she should want to help you through it to prove herself to you and you should allow her to step up and actually help you...

and if anyone dares to yell at you to stop it, i am sure will get their own rude awakening to what infidelity does to a soul.....glass houses so to speak..

anyways i gotta go.....talk to her tryn....talk to her...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 1:17 PM, November 1st (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tryn, for some of us in the LTA forum, the second year is the worst. I have no idea why that should be. It just seems to happen. It sounds like that is what is happening to you, which is why you can still be sharply triggered into short bouts of tearfulness. Don’t worry about it. I’m sure it is part of the grieving process. People seem to think that if you can be focused on the future, work on your inner happiness, have a remorseful spouse, etc, etc, that the healing will happen all the sooner. Yes there is probably more of a flying start and so you think you are making good progress and then don’t understand why you are still feeling as you do. All I can say it that it will get better. I was probably clinically depressed in the second year. But I only see that now as I look back. I had problems with not understanding why I wasn’t “over it”.

Gotta go. FWH


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 1:17 PM, November 1st (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tryn, for some of us in the LTA forum, the second year is the worst. I have no idea why that should be. It just seems to happen. It sounds like that is what is happening to you, which is why you can still be sharply triggered into short bouts of tearfulness. Don’t worry about it. I’m sure it is part of the grieving process. People seem to think that if you can be focused on the future, work on your inner happiness, have a remorseful spouse, etc, etc, that the healing will happen all the sooner. Yes there is probably more of a flying start and so you think you are making good progress and then don’t understand why you are still feeling as you do. All I can say it that it will get better. I was probably clinically depressed in the second year. But I only see that now as I look back. I had problems with not understanding why I wasn’t “over it”.

Gotta go. FWH


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
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