Wow it's been awfully quiet here. At least I haven't had my usual problems keeping up with everybody.
Since I've been home I've had time to go through the GPS and VAR and all is good - thank God.
OW3 is now living in town so if he wants to break NC now is his chance because he could be pretty confident he could get away with it. Fingers crossed.
Must have been so hard for you trying to bury your feelings over this difficult period. My mother was quite ill this year and my dday was two days after her funeral. I'm also executor for her estate. I feel my mourning her passing was so effected by dday and the crap that followed. Just another thing to resent about my H's LTAs. Anyway, I can identify with your sitch
Do guys not hear the words
Don't know! Since dday I've found myself listening to music much more than in the past. I love all sorts but my favourites at present are the Eagles and Savage Garden. The words do really effect me. I suspect my H does hear them. There's one song on an Eagles (I think) album called "Get over it" and when it comes on I always skip to the next song. I hate this one but like the others on the album. My H has never commented on this so I guess he has recognised the theme. I also quite like Shania Twain. When I get to "Whose Bed have your Boots Been Under" I also skip this and he never comments. So yep he think he does hear the words.
given me much time to think of life being short and the need to move forward.
Since my mum's death and my own heart attack I also feel this way. I suspect it's why I'm TRYING to stay positive. I've told my husband I feel that his OWs stole so much of my life in the last 16yrs. He wasn't fully here for me and the kids - was too busy plotting to be with them I guess and then was irritable with us when he was around. This and the lies are the hardest part for me to forgive. I think in some ways the sex wasn't nearly as important as these. Anyway, leave that - need to stay positive.
Better go and do some chores. H is at work (Day shift for a change and OW2 and OW3 not working today so that's good)so will check for new posts from time to time
Take care all
I'm so confused. I was not prepared -- though I knew he might -- still.
My IC was great with my WH. Wish I'd sent WH to my new IC rather than his back in the day. Oh well.
I heard a lot of things. I also *didn't* hear a lot of things. Everything I heard backed up my feeling -- my anger -- that the problem is not that he had an affair -- it's how he's behaved since Dday.
One thing I heard, that I have such deep, heartfelt compassion for, is that there were many years of our marriage when I was sick and just nothing like the woman he fell in love with. He described what I was like. I have always been amazed he stuck it out with me then. I still am.
I know an A is not the solution -- but this is why forgiving the A was relatively easy for me. More later.
and i am so happy that he is enjoying your gs "with" you...commonalities are huge, it gives you a connection, and so much connection was lost, some permanently, so some positive connection is a really really good thing...and when the connection is one that brings you both joy...total yay on that one...
I also feel DS 30 is putting his father's feelings over mine, and that hurts.
i do not think he is putting his dad feelings over yours...i think he is putting his own feelings over yours....this is what "he" wants...and maybe from the sound of it he doesn't want to wait around to see if your ws wants to do a g2g with you'all for the day...and just wants to plan it, you are all still invited, its you parents who decide if you could put aside your feelings to spend time as a family....sometimes, no matter how old we get, we still like having all of our immediate family together, kwim...
i also think you are ultra-sensitve right now, you are finally putting yourself in a place where you are opening up your pain and allowing yourself to feel it, makes EVERYTHING so damned much harder...you are raw right now honest, and when we are raw there is no winning, no peace, no respite....cept for a few minutes or hours if we are lucky,...
It's just all a reminder of how the 2 men that I loved with all my heart betrayed me and left me.
as odd as this sounds, both men did not leave "you", they left the marriage which really had nothing to do with you but themselves, their growth or lack thereof....you did pick wrong, neither apparantly was good enough for you, strong enough and loving enough...of both themselves and others....
one of lifes rules: we must love ourselves to be able to love another, really love another....because it is only then that we know or realize what love really is...love of self must always be first...
and please peeps, lets not confuse this love of self, with selfishness....2 different entities....the latter has to do with ego and not pure love...so i am quashing that one before it could even bud...
song lyrics: raising hand, never paid much attention to them, after d-day i try to make them all out, i was and am still amazed at how many have the infidelity theme...no escape..
laura: i am so happy that all your tech toys confirm that he has been a good boy....what a rush to know, really know that he was...that in itself is a little piece of peace of mind...
short life: i think about this all the time, when i run my path of least regret through to make sure if my plan is a sound one next year.....and i still feel the same way...and sadly i still wish he just dies....and that bothers me, its so so not who i am, or i should say "was"......
m3: the more you post about this new ic, the more i think i like him, he doesn't seem to mince his words, gives an honest opinion, seems to have a sound handle on you and your ws and the sich...he seems like a straight shooter (my favorite type of person) and is not afraid to differ in his opinion...
curious though m3, you are posting quite late for you....i hope you get some sleep...
Re Song Lyrics
Just been listening to another Eagles album.
Wasted Time reminds me of my first post on SI in JFO. I called the thread "Wasted Life"
Then there's Victim of Love. Wow, hard to even enjoy one of my favourite bands now.
your tech toys confirm that he has been a good boy....what a rush to know, really know that he was...that in itself is a little piece of peace of mind...
Yes it is a rush to know he's been a good boy. And he is still trying - giving me hope. I couldn't stay with him without the security of my toys!!!
But this made me sad for you.
sadly i still wish he just dies....and that bothers me, its so so not who i am, or i should say "was".....
So sad for you
Talking to a girlfirend tonight who moved away a few years ago. We were very close for about 15yrs and worked together. I hadn't talked to her since Dday as I couldn't face telling her but knew sooner or later I had to. She phoned because she was worried I hadn't been in touch for so long.
I told her of course and she was devastated for me - she has also known my H for years - and said i"I can't believe it!".
I also told her I had changed. And I have. I used to be a very trusting and friendly person. I now know that I am different. I look at women and men I know and wonder (have they cheated on their Ss?) I also see nurses from the hopsital and think "Did he fuck her too?" or "Does she know he fucks other nurses?"
I ddin't want to change!!!!!
More of the injustice of being a BS!!!
HUGS to all
I used to be a very trusting and friendly person. I now know that I am different. I look at women and men I know and wonder (have they cheated on their Ss?)
I now do the same thing! MY WH made a big deal after DDay that this happens all the time...the equivalent of the playground mentality of "everyone else is doing it, why can't I?" So now I'm wondering, is everyone else now having A's? Am I so completely out of touch that I can't see this? In any case...you're right Laura. I'm now changed forever and there's no going back. I will never trust my WH the way I did before DDay. I had NO clue that he had a GF on the side. That's partly what scares me so much now. There were no clues then, so how can I trust him now?
I'm still in a very dark place waiting for the new AD to kick in. But I feel that even once I start feeling better, won't that help WH in his delusion that I/we are moving on? I told him in yesterday's meltdown that I wasn't sure that we would even be together 6 mos. from now. I asked him how he felt and he said that he was sure we would be because he could not think otherwise. My fear is that as I usually do, I will sweep my feelings under the rug in order to keep the status quo. The situation has morphed into "my" problem. I'm the one that is having trouble coping, I'm the one that can't move on....there's no discussion of my WH's problem with staying faithful. Maybe it is me. Maybe I just want to be miserable. Help me out here tribe? I can't trust my own instincts.
trust is completely blown, and its not just trust of our ws's, alot of us will now have trouble trusting most people, always wondering who they really are, is all what it seems or is there so much more beneath that surface....
instincts though are funny...if you really learn which are your instincts and which are your fears you will be ok....the fears are the ones that can be wrong and usually are, the instincts are the nagging feelings that something isn't quite right....and you could actually feel it within your body not just your head....
so i would think that you would need to figure out is it fear or is it instinct....fear can be wrong every time, instinct is rarely wrong....
But this made me sad for you.
sadly i still wish he just dies....and that bothers me, its so so not who i am, or i should say "was".....
So sad for you
thank you, i am working on this one...i know this is based on fear, the fear that when the time finally comes that i get my freedom pfm will do the right thing by me and his kids, but sadly i don't think this will be the case, and as much as this is a fear, it is based on who he is, where he comes from and the few times i have questioned him, lets just say his answers support my fear....i will be 50 next month, by the time he is told its time to go, i will be even older, i have been a sahm.....and i do not think he will do right by me financially and he has done nothing to allay that fear...so basically the man will screw me over yet again.....
I have a IC session this afternoon. I'm sure she'll again tell me to be patient but every week I lose more hope that he will change into the man I thought he was or now hope he can be.
My first instinct is to trust him now when he says that he loves me and will never hurt me again,
this is not so much as an instinct as it is a desire, a need and a want....when we want something bad enough it becomes as though we are breathing to believe....you want to believe does not always go with instinct.....the instinct would be to believe him with your whole being..
i also see other issues within the marriage that are preventing you from really believing this...
On the whole...no sense of urgency.
I don't think he even knows how to love me the way I need/deserve to be loved. There is no sense of crisis for him. He is understanding when I have a meltdown, will hold me and take
Not one word about how I look, not one
This is after I really struggled with sticking up for myself and finally telling WH that I didn't want them here at all as I didn't think I could keep up the facade that all was hunky-dory in front of his family 24/7! I told him how I was still struggling EVERY DAY to keep functioning
I'm sick and tired of having to rant/rave/cry in order to get him to take me seriously. In his mind if he just rides out the "storm" with me and my emotions, then we can move on
I aqlso don't see any changes in his ability to empathize or feel emotions. I used to accept that as part of him, but now I want more and I'm just not seeing it.
wow, my impression here is that you are not giving him boundaries that have consequences.....i believe you need to be patient on some stuff but all of this...no...
#1: when he is in a crappy mood because a fucking team lost and does not have the smarts to tell you that you look nice..he needs to be told.."just because your team lost you are in a crappy mood, imagine then if you will dear ws how i feel that our marriage lost for years while you decided for your dick to take up residence in someone elses pussy"..." and btw dear ws, did you happen to notice that i dressed up for you, the very same man, and you seem to have nothing to say about that...so tell me dear ws what is it i am supposed to think and feel,....is this supposed to encourage me to MOVE ON....."
#2: "you want your bil to come and stay then be prepared, if i feel that i cannot keep on a 'happy' face and 'pretend' i won't, i will tell what i need to tell, so if this is what you truly want, be my guest""you kept secrets, that is not my game"
#3: "i am setting some new boundaries, you either honor them or you do not, if you choose not to honor them i will take this as a message that you really do not want to do what it will take for ME TO MOVE ON"..."so, my dear ws, what's it gonna be"!!!!!
i believe you need to patient, but i also strongly believe that you need to set your boundaries, honor them and stick up for yourself....and remember do not tell him that you will do a consequence if you do not intend to carry it out, because then he will believe nothing you say, you set yourself up for being all talk, no action and all threats will mean nothing...although the word threats is really not a good word...it should be consequence...but i think you get the gist here...
strong i have been there for a really long time, d-day gave me my freedom from being controlled and manipulated ever again....and i refused to live like that again, i lost who i was within the marriage, always doing what i could to keep peace...those days are over...if pfm (my ws) doesn't like it, i show him the door and usually ask him to use it and to please DO LET IT HIT HIM ON THE WAY OUT!!!!
it sucks, it all sucks sometimes doesn't it....but the good news is that it won't suck forever.....
I'm praying for you. I know you are trying to be so strong for your family and even here for us. I wish pfm would finally "get it", I mean really and truly get it.
Laura, Strongish, and M3 sending you hugs.
I've been having a meltdown this morning. As a kind friend pointed out, and I'm beginning to realize, is that I have been in the denial/bargaining stage of grief for a long time.
The reality is hitting me like a ton of bricks and I can't stop crying. All the red flags I've ignored over the years are starting to crystllize. I'm beginning to realize that the LTA was more likely to be even when I was pregnant with DS 12. All the times WH was on that phone in private and I thought it was business.
It just hurts so much that WH had to call OW and still calls her so much. He is so very attached to her in a way that I don't think he was ever attached to me.
I gave up so much for him. I sacrificed so much because I felt we would grow old together. We were committed.
I feel so abandoned and worthless right now. I was never good enough.
i do not think your ws is so so attached to this women, i think she just knows how to feed his ego, she probably is all about "him"....you do not do that anymore, you have found your voice with him and no longer feed his ego...and his ego is so HUGE he still tries to get you to do just that, doesn't he...he doesn't give up, you are his possession....he still wants to control and manipulate you....so while he is so "attached" to her, he not letting you go either is he....so what kind of message do you think she is getting...ow: "no matter how often i talk to him and engage about him, HE is still with HER","he won't leave her", "when will it be just me"......and if she is not saying all these things than she really is not into him and may just be cheatin on him....
the pain you are feeling, i know it well...and it sucks...give yourself some time to feel it everyday...but big big BUT here...take breaks from it, change your focus and shake it out....you must not allow yourself to get totally lost in it.....but you must go through it in bits....and through it is the road to healing it....grieve it, mourn the loss of what you believed your marriage and husband were, then move on to the next stage of acceptance...they go hand in hand....and they are the hardest stages i believe....they are also the ones i am in so i may be totally biased..
I have been in the denial/bargaining stage of grief for a long time.
Honest -- she's not better. She's just from a completely different culture and this probably bothers her exactly 0% -- especially given that she knew about you the whole time. So, she's not a pain in his rear, which you are (and you have every right to be.)
Ok, more update though I still don't have time to finish.
And, yes Miracle, new IC is much better for me at this point.
So, darn it, I cried, but I made sure that they both knew it was ANGER not sadness.
Anyway -- I also hear that WH is SO totally done with OW. It wasn't his words, it was his body language. I do know him as well as I thought I did. (I think there is a whole sense of "do I know this person at all?" after Dday.) Anyway, when IC asked him if this is in the past it was SO obvious. I'm sure he's totally pissed she ratted him out.
Anyway -- XHSGF is off FB. We had a fight about that in front of IC. WH didn't do it until this AM. I checked when I was posting last night and just about woke his ass up. Anyway, it's done.
I told them I'm ANGRY and I can't be NOT angry until I'm not angry. KWIM? And I pointed out that pregnancy + new baby slowed down dealing with it in any way.
WH also said that since August I've been just like the woman he fell in love with for the first time in years. I think that's so sweet.
I am so hopeful from these things. I think this *does* qualify as the "I'm mad at my spouse and trying to get their attention but they're not paying attention" thing that my preist says tends to be a situation where the marriage can work out just fine.
So, here's what I didn't hear. He still hasn't got a good grip of how he allowed himself to do it. He has no clue that preventing it from happening again takes proactive effort. He's totally clueless as to why I'm so adamant about XHSGF being off FB and also just thinks he shouldn't have to because I shouldn't have a problem with it. (As I said, he did do it though.)
Neither of us want to go to MC -- but we did decide to try a do-it-yourself MC weekly or biweekly -- just get out of the house and go for it for an hour. IC seems to think that's a viable option for us.
He also said he NEVER thinks of it unless someone brings it up. Wow. Good. Bad. Good in the vein of tryn -- it's never going to work if you keep bringing it up -- bad in the remorse department.
He expressed NO remorse. Amazing. I say get XHSGF off and he's arguing. Instead of I'm so sorry, of course. No apology for the A.
So THAT is the problem. With little understanding of how he wound up there, no plan to prevent it and no remorse, he's just a ticking time bomb for another A.
So, my plan is to keep up the soft 180 since it's working great. I feel wonderful and he's happy. (he told me the other night that he's very happy with our life and being with me) And, I'm going to make sure we really do our homemade MC. If it isn't working, then I'll sign us up for Retrouvaille like tryn suggests. I might just sign us up for it anyway.
I'm very happy today. Digesting the ambush gave me a craptastic weekend. But I think things are going to be fine if I can just get through WH's thick skull about, well, boundaries basically.
Oh, and the other thing he said right at the elevators after IC was M3, I love you, but you've got to stop being so mean to me. Fogtastic.
Oh, he also says I'm passive aggressive. Maybe I am a little. You know, he sets up these little tests that are impossible to pass. So, I hate to give my opinion because its phrased as a choice but there is a wrong answer. So, I think I'll just start saying "what is the right answer?" when I get one of those.
Ok. Sorry I'm all about me today.
He stood there so angry and so well, almost self-righteous, and told me that she had actually criticized him and there was no need for him to continue in his relationship with her
Wow! My H said something similar. Shortly after Dday he said he was going to break it off with OW3. Then he said it again a couple of weeks ago. I then asked him why and he said "I knew it was wrong and besides she was getting a bit bitchy". So I said "What do you mean" and he said "I don't know - she just was"
After reading your post I'm now starting to wonder if she was no longer feeding his ego. They had been together for over a year. I suupose the shine was starting to wear off and I know she was putting more pressure on him to leave me.
Now I guess I have to be careful not to "feed his ego" myself as a means of keeping him. I am a very honest person - I believe in saying what I think but I also understand the necessity for kindness, compassion and just being thoughtful of the other in a relationship. Unfortunately I don't think he does.
Sometimes I think his little acts of generosity or words that please me are more about him getting what he wants (me to stop complaining, getting upset, asking about the As) than genuine love for me.
He told OW3 repeatedly that he "Loved her" and yet he now really does seem to have cut all ties with her. He has also told me several times that he doesn't think he really DID love her - he was just lonely. (This may be true or may just be a way of placating me). It may also be that she was being more forthright and had eased up on "feeding his ego".
imagine then if you will dear ws how i feel that our marriage lost for years while you decided for your dick to take up residence in someone elses pussy
I love this!!!! I will definately use it next time H complains about some little disappointment. Will just have to substituye another phrase where you say lost. eg if he burns the toast imagine then if you will dear ws how i feel that our marriage was going up in smoke for years while you decided for your dick to take up residence in someone elses pussy
HUGS to all
life is sometimes what you make of it,...like that old saying that i am sure you may not want to hear..when life hands you lemons, make lemonade.....
i too have been dealt some pretty rotten lemons, i too am living in a "in-house" separation....i do what i need to for my kids, and when we do things as a family i try to see things from their point of view....there are so many things that would be lost if i were to d now....i would have peace on one level and i would have war on another, and yet on another i would have to live with my choices that will now affect my kids....
if my kids were little, my choice would be much easier, i would "d" in a heartbeat.....but at this late stage of the game...i could not live with the choices my kids would or might make, one in particular......the other 2 i know will be ok.....
anyways i digress...make the most of what you have....not easy when you see what you could have had, but possible if you make it so....so we need to stop living with the "what ifs"...my ws did that and look at where he is....he will be a lonely man....we need to stop living with the who we thought they were....they are not those people.....we need to stop living in the pain, we need to use that pain instead to motivate us to move ahead.....we need to be proactive in our own healing, we have ws's who are not only incapable of helping on this but will not.....
we must first decide that we want to be free of the pain, that we want to move on, then we must make choices that reflect that decision and then we need to commit to those choices....
the first one being physical health,
the second being mental health,
the final one being emotional health......
do what needs to be to feed a healthy person..
go for check ups, be mindful of how you treat your body...
be mindful of how you react, act with full knowledge that every action will have a reaction....
be mindful of your inner voice, it tells us what we need all the time, but we must quiet the mind so that we can hear that voice....
be mindful that all of our choices are made from a base of love of self first and foremost, then love of others...especially our kids...
it always sounds so damned easy in black and white but the practice...the practice is where we all get hung up....and this is where "time" helps the most...it does get easier, everything gets easier with practice and time...
fnf: good pick up on the anger portion of grief....and honest she is so correct...you need to tap into it, and like the mourning bits at a time....
when i read what you wrote about the crying....i cry whenever i am super fustrated, i can't seem to not cry...i get so angry over my fustrations that the tears flow on full....which makes it worse, because i am not crying for sadness but for fustration...so i understand this completely...
NEVER thinks of it unless someone brings it up.
i see a man who doesn't want to deal, a man who doesn't want to face it....i am married to one of those, and it is quite maddening....to hear them spew the shit...."well i don't think about her anymore, at all"...meanwhile she is all you could think about for ___years"..for me its 30+......
m3, please be guarded with this man, as much as you can.... i worry about you...
feeding the ego: we all do this from time to time...it is part of being human, we do it for ourselves as well as others...and sometimes its not so much ego as it is self esteem....even though they go hand in hand at times...a good self esteem is necessary in loving oneself...and loving oneself is necessary to be able to love another....that is pure love.....love that is untainted, as much as all of us at si have experienced the biggest kind of tainting does not mean that it cannot be not exactly found but earned.....
gott go, scrawny boy needs the pc for h.w....thank god i dont have h.w......see i found something to be happy about...
She supported the things I was telling my WH but I expect that he'll put a different spin on things when he sees her next week. Whatever.
For tonight I feel better and that is good enough for now. I don't have to share the remote with WH or DS tonight and that's my happy thought for the evening.
It is a brisk morning here in Paradise.
Today is my 1st antiversary, I am doing OK.
I have learned that the secret of our own happiness lies within each of us. To expect our WS to make us happy, restore our trust, or blame them for our hurt and anger is to think like a WS. True, by being honest, transparent, remorseful, and identifying and correcting the problem within themselves that enabled the WS to participate in their affair he or she can make it easier for us to believe that he or she is not likely to hurt us again, and help us to understand ourselves and the relationship we were in, but the healing is still all ours to accomplish. I can be disappointed for FWW’s behavior that brought harm to her and others, but that should not drive how I feel about me and life.
The Universe attacks us at our weakest points, because that is where we need to strengthen ourselves and grow. I swore I would never say I am happy FWW had her affairs, but I am a better person because of my response to them.
I have survived my wife’s infidelity. It remains to see if my marriage does. I do not like being hurt, and it is normal to avoid pain. I am now trying to determine which path into my future with FWW will ultimately hurt the least. This path will be my path of least regret moving forward.
I can tell you that separating from FWW was initially very painful, but that pain has faded. It has helped dissolve the enmeshment of my emotions into hers. I believe that this is a good and healthy thing. It was nice to think of marriage as a melting pot where the two become one, but that is neither healthy nor accurate. I now see a strong and healthy marriage as a paring of a good wine with a good entrée. Both are good and enjoyable on their own, but if the paring is right, they complement each other and the entire meal is better for the paring. If the paring is not right, no matter how excellent the wine and wonderful the entrée or dessert, they decrease the enjoyment of the dining experienced when consumed together. Some wines are from poor grapes, bad fermentation, or have oxidized. These wines will never be enjoyable. Life is too short to drink bad wine, and there are always pleanty of other good wines to substitute.
The thing you anguish over has happened. It is and will always be a part of who you are. The event has released great emotional energy within you. Use this energy to create the best you that you can. Your WS must heal him or herself. There is nothing that you can do to control him or her. Trying to control or "fix" your WS only supresses the good in you.
I have been caught up working through my own things and not able to spare the energy and thought to reach out to help the others who are hurting now ((tribe)). I do think of you all, and wish for you that you find acceptance, radical acceptance.
I also cannot adequately thank those who have stood by me in crisis, offered advice, provided comfort, and lent me a hand back onto my feet when I was writhing on the ground in pain. I appreciate you help, and would not be here ready to select my new path without you.
[This message edited by atsenaotie at 9:05 AM, October 5th (Tuesday)]