Ats: I am so sorry for what you are going through. I actually hear relief in your post. You have done everything you can and more, you really have. I truly understand what you are saying about getting to know WW more, ever if you are going to D. If you both go in with mutual respect, which I feel you guys will, it will be better for everyone involved. All this work you have done will have the good benefits of mutual respect you and WW will continue to have for each other. You understand her better and understand and feel it was her and FOO issues and not you that led to her behavior, and SHE realizes that too. You both will co-parent better, and who knows, maybe someday WW will get better and you both may find each other again....if not, it'll be ok.
Keep posting Ats. Any change, even if it's for the better, is very stressful. Respect yourself and be kind to yourself and WW.
I know this is contrary to some of the advice here, but I am going with my gut on this. She is who she is. I suspect that an extended NC 180 might be useful if I was trying to get her to snap into a new behavior, but I have little hope for that. I also truly believe that she is not involved with any OM, and has no immediate intentions to do so, and really, what would it matter now if she were. I am out of the house to protect myself, not to try to initiate a change in her. I want to start making progress on an agreement so we can get the damned thing filed, approved, and begin moving on. The aftermath is going to be horrid; I just want to get there.
Why do I bother even trying to figure WH out? For example if someone is grouchy because they are sick and snap at you, you can be more understanding and take it less personally. It doesn't make it right, or that you even have to tolerate the behavior, but it hurts less.
For me, if some of the reasons that WH acts the way he does are due to some personality disorder, I can take it less personal, it hurts less. I'm not going to tolerate the behavior or excuse him, it will just help me detach.
IC says that I keep going in a circle; WH keeps with the intolerable behavior and I keep trying to see if I can tolerate it. The old frog in the pot analogy.
Issues of "safety", fear of abandonment, having an "anchor" emotionally have plagued me. IC pointed out that yes, I have been abandoned emotionally from so many significant people in one way or another: mother, father, xWH, WH, but my fear is unfounded because I have always took care of myself anyway. xWH was NEVER home. He was a controlled alcoholic who always played softball (he was on 9 leagues in one week.....) and went to the bar after the games. I did everything, but I felt he was my rock, foundation emotionally. I felt as long as he loved me, I was ok.
The same with current WH. He was not here for 2 or 3 months at a time and I handled everything.(not the grilling, Dip, although I tried)
I am very independent with doing THINGS, but always wanted to belong, to be loved. I have to find that within myself and it's so hard.
BTW, Miracle, I am ready to make that list. IC suggested I make a list of everything WH has done to keep me strong and not to fall back into his charming web of illusion and not to fantasize about what is really going on.
Thanks everyone for listening to my ramblings.
but always wanted to belong, to be loved.
I was a very independant young man, but in married life I learned to enjoy the belonging, the responsibility, and I thought, the love. It is scary thinking about breaking away from all of that. Even when things with FWW were not good, I could feel at least we were making it through together and things could get better and certainly could be worse. There were bad patches, many towards the end, but I was not always unhappy. Not like FWW who was miserable for most of the M.
I feel sorry for FWW and for us. I wish iwam had studied harder for her Fairy God Mother certification , so she could sprinkle some dust, wave the wand, and make it all better.
I learned a lot being married, and especially the last 3-4 years. Five years ago I could not have envisioned a collaborative D, now I think I can make it through. It is the unkown that is most fearful, I know that I can rely on me, and I do have a thin, but viable, support network.
I think everyone here has or is struggling with the feeling of "not letting their WS feel like they got away with it" It is a tough thing to overcome. You want to make them pay, to suffer like you do. I read a quote here at SI and even posted it in the LTA topic one time. It went something like this. "Unfortunately there are some things in life where there is no proper retribution." I know I have messed up that quote but the fact is a BS is really left with no good way to "get even." That fact is pretty hard to deal with. Hell, even if you ran off with some crazy old fart to a island, you are still not getting even.
Hugs to the tribe.
Dip, I don't know if we BS's really want revenge, per se, but for those WS's that don't get it, I think a BS wants the WS to be able to really understand or FEEL the pain to fully understand what they have done. I don't think they can face it, because then they wouldn't be able to face themselves. I know I wouldn't be able to face myself if I knew that I hurt someone the way I was hurt.
I still believe in the basic goodness of people. I also have to start believing in myself when it comes to emotional stability and not let someone else's opinion of me define my opinion of myself.
can you come....of course silly....most are welcome...you will all understand that there are a few i wouldn't not want there, especially since i want to lose myself to some cabana boys..
i have to say laura...i am glad that you got to hear that message...because it enabled you to set another boundary that is necessary...and i am so loving that your ws is very obliging to all your requests...its a great sign...
as for the hitting him...been there done that...sometimes we are just pushed beyond...his attitude towards this whole thing is quite hopeful...i am glad that you are not happy about hitting him, which means you haven't lost it all...
as for the checking on him, you check for as long as you feel the need...the need will lessen with good behavior on his part and that dreaded word = time...
The choice of the devil you know or alone is surely a valid choice. Some people can be happy and alone. Whenever I thought of the alone choice, it usually made me a bit sad. Being alone sounds so lonely
of course this would depend on the devil at hand...
ats: the 180 is for your benefit...and you could do a modified version...you two are stuck together in a sense as parents...that is never going to change...but as husband and wife...well that one is sketchy by her actions, her words and her continued deeds....
i still believe that if she really goes through some intensive therapy there can be something for both of you...but not until....and for all of that i am sorry...
a part of me feels so sorry for her, she is that lost little girl isn't she...she is going to have so so many regrets, and she cannot seem to help herself and unfortunately that is her only way out of her own hell is to help herself...
honest: i am glad you are ready to make that list...and whether or not you believe it i hear a definitive change in you where he is concerned this trup...you are getting stronger, you are becomming the woman you are meant to be...the woman i see already even if you do not...
and i hate it as much as love it that you are beginning to "see" all of who he is...it is so freeing for you and so so sad too...
and btw since you are on this little roll...how about that masters...
todays seeming topic:
retrobution....its impossible, you cannot take something from them that was never there...and the fact is not a single ws trusted in their mate, not a single ws has that innocence of being faithful or believing in the concept of being true and honest....
you cannot take away what was never there...
however...a little jab here and there about their shortcommings doesn't hurt and feels so good sometimes doesn't it...
as for my fairy godmother certification: i just don't get it, i spent so many years being the easter bunny, the tooth fairy and even the really big guy, you know the one, the guy who wears a red suit...eats all the cookies he desires...he gets to fly and everything, so i have some flying experience there....but i was turned down FLAT...as flat as flat stanley...
oh well, i could always go back to school as another dear friend suggested, i hear lorena bobbit is teaching a hands on workshop!!
i have to say laura...i am glad that you got to hear that message...because it enabled you to set another boundary that is necessary
Thanks for this and your other comments. I am feeling so hopeful... it's all that keeps me going. It's 10.30am and H has phoned me 3 times already today "to make sure I'm ok" after phoning at least a dozen times yesterday. Being at my kids place is an enormous trigger for me. During the Year May 09-10 when he was with OW3 he often encouraged me to go visit them - it made it possible for him to stay O/N with her!!! He knows this hurt me enormously and is very sympathetic.
i want to lose myself to some cabana boys..
i hear lorena bobbit is teaching a hands on workshop!!
MIRACLE: THANKS FOR BEING YOU!!!!
I'D SO LOVE TO LIVE IN YOUR HOUSE FOR A LITTLE WHILE!!!!!
I woke at 5.00 this morning (as usual-God I'd love to get more than 4 or 5 hrs sleep!) and have spent the time productively. I have updated my story on my profile and have copied my posts and those from many of you to my journal. In the coming months I'm going to transfer it all to a word doc.
Might even use it as the basis to write a novel!! I am a high school teacher (have been for 32 yrs) and have been thinking about what I'll do when I retire. Perhaps this is it! As I love murder mysteries I would incorporate lots of intrigue - just not sure yet who the victim will be
Any suggestions for a title??
How about "Ho's in the Hospital"
I've been thinking about trying to find an IC...those damn anxiety attacks seem to be returning.
Honest - You really do sound so much better than a few months ago. You are a good person and someone that deserves much better than what you have had to put up with. You'll get there, slowly but surely.
...I hear Lorena Bobbit is giving a hands on workshop..
I needed that laugh Miracle!!
Laura: The victim for your novel? Hmmmmm how about there's a series of murders and the victims are all unremorseful WS's?
I'm sorry, couldn't help it.
I will try and give you a condensed version of my story. I never really posted it because I believed the OW was here and would know for sure who I was. Now it doesn't matter.
My H had a 2-3yr. A. He is a cop and was gone alot. To be truthful, we had drifted apart and didn't really have much in common anymore. We would occasionally do things together, but not often. I think it's pretty easy to get caught up in the daily task of living and working and raising children, and in doing that, we often neglected each other. It doesn't mean that what he did was right, but it is what he did... found someone that was what he thought he wanted!
The OW decided to call my house and inform me that she and my H were together. She said that she could give him what I couldn't!! I was shocked and hurt, but I think I had an idea that something was going on. :sad
It tore our family apart and shook us to the very core. The OW would call, and call, and call... she wouldn't go away. Little did I know that they were still seeing each other and talking!
I am blessed to have a wonderful family and supportive friends. When I learned that he was still talking to her, I put him out! No discussion, I was done!!
He was gone for a couple of months and then called me to talk. Said he wanted to come home and said that he would set up counseling... I said I would think about it because I didn't believe that he would do any of the above. He did though--- started IC and asked me to go to MC. I have always loved him, our life, our family... so I went!
One promise turned into another that he followed through on, and it just continued. I eventually decided that if I wanted this then I had to own my own failings in our relationship. Once I did that it was time to move on. I made a promise to myself that I wasn't going to be angry anymore... it just exhausted me and took too much effort to be mad! When I decided to be "us" again I left the old hurts behind... wasn't easy, because I use to be argumentative just because I could. But I changed and so did he, and for the first time in a long time we really began to say and show our love for each other!
Letting go of anger and pain was the best thing I ever did. Acting loving actually made me care more. There is much I have left out and my H has also worked hard for us.
We try to spend alot of time together and with friends and family. I actually feel blessed to have been given this chance for us to grow old together. I now give my husband what he needs and he is there for me as well.
Hope that helps... it seems like a lifetime ago!
I am woman, hear me ROAR!!
What you accept, you teach!
Me 53, WS 54
Reconciled for life!
DD 24, DS 27
Yes, yes, yes!!!!!!
The hero could be a vigilante who seeks out and executes unremorseful WSs.
Or like the character in the Dickens novel who comes and shows them what life would really be like if they took off with AP and/or left their family.
.....or then again maybe he (she???) could just slice and dice 'em
Lovinlife - I have a question...how did you let go of the anger?
It was a conscious decision to just let it go and choose to be loving instead. I refused to be vindictive, or want to get even. trusting him was a monumental risk, but it was necessary for our future. I crossed the bridge to our new R and burned it behind me! It was hard but got easier every day.
I focused on the positive and trusted that even if he screwed up again I would be ok... together or alone, and as I became stronger , he wanted us even more...
Being sad and angry all the time is not good for anyone, least of all yourself! So give up the anger for you, for your own happiness and peace of mind. The anger you feel for your WS will slowly start to shift.
I love your humor.
I love your compassion and caring post.
I love your strength.
Thanks for sharing your story. Your story is different to mine in many ways but so similar in others.
was gone alot. To be truthful, we had drifted apart and didn't really have much in common anymore. We would occasionally do things together, but not often. I think it's pretty easy to get caught up in the daily task of living and working and raising children, and in doing that, we often neglected each other. It doesn't mean that what he did was right, but it is what he did... found someone that was what he thought he wanted!
All of the above could describe us perfectly. My H works shift work in a hospital (with nurses who were the OWs) and I am a teacher. He usually works evenings 2.30-11pm so we didn't see a lot of each other and I was left to deal with all the "kid stuff" at night. As well, when we were home together he was always too "busy" with stuff on the farm to find time for me and the children. He also became quite nasty at times so I guess I just stayed out of his way. I now believe the nastiness was the guilt coming out!!! Our son was diagnosed with a major genetic illness in 2004 after many years of searching. He then suffered major depression. This was the period when I believe my H was most 'absent'. He couldn't cope, ran off to OW2 and then OW3 and left me to deal.
He was 4yrs into a PA at the end of 2008 when our son left home. I have clear memories of thinking that now that we were empty nesters maybe we could get our relationship back on track. I even said something to that effect to him.
He hardly responded - I was hurt and angry so life went on as before. From time to time I'd make a real effort but then give up. Little did I know that by then, mid 2009, he was in a very intense EA/PA with OW3.
Anyway - the rest of it is in my profile......
I think that shift work is a major danger in a marriage. It had never occurred to me before Dday. Why didn't I see it?? Instead I was often relieved when he was at work in the evenings because it meant I didn't have to put up with his crankiness. OW3 also works lots of evenings so the mornings allowed them to get together. She even moved out of town to a farm so he could come and go more easily with less chance of discovery!!!
I've always been the strong one and I know that I'm the one who will have to get us through this. If the shoe had been on the other foot I have no doubt he'd have checked out! His weaknes is what led to the OWs!!!
Thanks again for your story. i guess I hoped to see similarities with mine so it could add to the hope I'm trying to build up.
Please God let him be genuine. As I get more hopeful I know it puts me higher and means that if he pushes me off the ledge I have so much further to fall!!!!
Letting go of anger and pain was the best thing I ever did. Acting loving actually made me care more.
How long was it after dday that you were able to do this???
i hear lorena bobbit is teaching a hands on workshop!!
Honest: You do sound good. Keep it up!
Fun: You sound better too.
Ats: My thoughts are with you. I have to say I'm worried about your meeting on Friday - I hope you don't spend all this anguish about moving to the next phase of this and she hits you with something out of left field on Friday morning.
As for me, I had a mini-moment yesterday, but I've rallied and I'm at the "I don't give a crap about anything" portion of the roller coaster. (I have to say, this is my favorite part of the ride so far.)
Dip: Good to hear from you.
M3: I know I owed you a response somewhere along the way - but I want to assure you that my H is getting laid and that he has received more than adequate notice as to the depth of this problem and my feelings. HOw are you doing?
And, to all the newbies - I wish you well and I hope to catch up at somepoint - there was just too many all at the same time & I got confused.
Laura - your situation sounds so similar to mine. He got so mean during the A that I actually looked forward to him either being at work or going out with the "guys". He wasn't going out with the guys, he was going with OW. I didn't know it at the time....12 years! How stupid am I? He left me to deal with the unruly teenagers, the house, the bills, the business I purchased, the whole damn thing. He was a horrible father during that time, and a horrible husband. He couldn't handle it. He's a loser in my eyes and always will be, I've lost so much respect for him.