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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affair Part 20
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 9:50 AM, September 26th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

oh ats...i am so sorry...

she sounds quite manic...i seriously believe that these people influence her in ways we cannot even imagine...she sounds like she is lost....and has not a clue how to find her way back....

she has some serious serious issues....its a shame you couldn't have her committed for some intense therapy and find some meds that will actually do what they need to do so she can.....

you need to remember your ds14....his age is a definite factor...teenage hormones....so tread lightly with him...i do not know how much he knows about his mom....

is there anyway for you to stay on the boat...the boat gives you such a sense of peace....and lord knows you need some of that now...

we are here for you ats...

(((ats)))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 11:02 AM, September 26th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((ats))))

I am so sorry that this weekend has been so horrible for you. All of us here know how you must be feeling right now and we will be worried about you. Please continue to post and let us know how you are doing.


Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 11:29 AM, September 26th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ats...
one thing to remember is that BPD and NPD tends to run in families. That could explain all of the craziness.
Youw wife could be BPD and maybe her mother and DD are also.
BPDs tend to love drama and often say and do things to create trouble..they like to stir the pot and make people feel miserable.
They also love to make mountains out of molehills...
sounds like that's what happened here...
There was absolutely no reason why your wife had to be anywhere near these toxic relatives. Do I remember correctly that the uncle sexually abused her years ago and the BIL sexted her last year? and your wife decides to stay in the same hotel with them (when I'm sure there were a ton of other options out there for her)....
and then, she keeps this info from you and when you call her out on it she gets upset and then proceeds to tell all of her toxic family members that you are a villain and you are upsetting her etc. etc.
She probably cried and carried on and told everyone that you ruined her good time at this cuckoo family party... and so, now they all had someone to focus on-you. You became the target of all of their toxicity. That explains the step daughter's phone call to you.
Oh, Ats... you have my sympathy.
I have a BPD/NPD mother and one of my sister's is also BPD and NPD... I know the kind of craziness that they can stir up. And guess what? out of 4 daughters... who is my mother's favorite? the cuckoo NPD BPD daughter... who is mean and cruel and selfish to all ...including my mother...
it is a toxic stew..and they keep stirring the pot.....
I think it's time for you to get your own IC...
if I remember you share an IC with your wife and also use the IC for MC?
I don't agree with that set up..you need to talk to someone that is purely in your corner...
My thoughts and prayers are with you and your son...
I'm glad that you have your parents there as support.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 12:27 PM, September 26th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wonder when the insanity of this weekend ends and she recants, apologizes, etc. what your response will be.

What do you think?

I texted her asking that we talk before she gets on the plane. This is our chance for her to pick up the straw. If she does not, this is the one that broke may back. I needed to see progress, but she put her family ahead of me to go on this trip, and while on the trip. At some point this needs to quit being MY problem and become ours with her doing more than saying the right things.

There are no friends of the M in her circle of family and "friends". I do not see this getting better unless I change a border, accept the treatment this last weekend, and apologize for ruining her event. I am not willing anymore to do this unilaterally.

eta, 3 calls within an hour of her flight taking off to tell me she is busy. I asked how she was getting home, she said walking I agreed to pick her up with DS in car with me as witness. I will drop them off and then leaving, I am packing the truck now.

She can fix this or not. I will meet with her in public places to talk. I am calling to schedule attorney tomorrow. There is no "legal separation" in FL, you just go for the D. If it appears safe in a week or two I will move back in for an in house separation until I can move to more permanent housing in a couple of more weeks.

I do not know what is scarier. Last night, or that today she acts as though nothing happened.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 2:55 PM, September 26th (Sunday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 3:59 PM, September 26th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats: as i was reading your last post a strange thought popped into my head...

these people are like a drug to her, when she under their influence she is not strong enough to be herself and needs to go back to being who they expect her to be...so powerful the hold that knowing how dangerous emotionally this trip was to be she is powerless to refuse, lest she disappoint them....

her abusers still hold the power...its not that she is choosing them over you ats, its that she is powerless to fight it...she is not strong enough emotionally to that...kind of why she needs intense therapy...and i am thinkin that your therapist is not good enough to help empower her....

it is such a shame because you truly do love her with all of your being...that much is so so evident...


(((ats)))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 4:34 PM, September 26th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

iwam, that may be the case. It is certainly why I did not want her to go, and wanted safety precautions (for me AND her to feel safe). She made travel plans unilaterally without regard for my feelings. She disregarded everything she had told me she would do to make this as painless as possible.

I've told DS14 I am leaving for a few days after Mom gets home.

I do not know what she can do to fix this (if she wants to), I have started making a list of ideas. Part of it centers around a sort of public declaration to "her" family, that DS's and I are now her family. The other part is actions speak louder than her words.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 5:21 PM, September 26th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ATS - what time are you supposed to pick her up tonight? I'm glad you are protecting yourself by having witnesses. I hope it isn't really necessary by better to be safe.
Is your DS 14 the one who overheard you fighting with your W a few weeks back?
What was his reaction when you told him you'd be going away for a few days?
It's a shame you can't ask your W to be the one to leave. It seems only fair. Personally, I think I'd drop her off at the hotel and stay at the home if I were you but I guess it's a lot easier to just pack up and go yourself.
((((((((ATS))))))))


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 6:00 PM, September 26th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FWW is home, we picked her up a little after 6. I am in a dumpy but moderately priced hotel room. I offered last night when she said she was scared to get a room (a better room) for FWW she said she would sleep in spare room or I could go to some crappy hotel, so here I am

Yes, DS14 who came along is one who heard the fight. FWW and I haved both talked to him about what is going on, he does not say much. I have a name for an IC for him to see eventually.

Fww chatted about her flight, and talked to her DD on the phone most of the short ride home. When we arrived I said I will be in touch and she said OK and walked into the house. I hate where I am emotionally and physically. I hate it more that she seems fine with it all.

I was supposed to go to Dr with her tomorrow am, I will call attorney instead I guess.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 6:29 PM, September 26th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ATS - Have you ever gone 180 on your W? It seems that your W refuses to accept the depth of her crimes against your M. She seems to easily try to put you on the defensive when in fact she is the guilty party. I wish you could have dropped her off at the hotel. It just doesn't seem right that she stays in the home while you get to stay in some "dumpy" hotel room. It's like you are paying the price for her sins.
I do think it is good for the two of you to be separated tonight though. The emotions and tension might be too high so if it was easier for you to leave then I guess that is for the best.
Do your parents live far away? Is there some reason you can't stay with them temporarily until you figure out what to do? They sound so supportive and you need them now.
I do think it is imperative that you go to an attorney tomorrow just to see what legal advice he/she can give. Your W needs a real wake-up call. I think she has gotten away with so much and doesn't really believe there are going to be long-term consequences. But she is so wrong. One day, maybe sooner than she is prepared for, she will find out this to be true.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 7:55 PM, September 26th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats: this is her pattern though...she will come back and tell you that she didn't want you to stay at a hotel, that she believed that was what you wanted...

her pattern that once she is away from all the negative influences she "comes down" from the "drug".....and sees the error of her ways, while still blaming you to some extent...which means she cannot handle the full depth of her own behavior...and when she is under the influence she talks out of her ass (sorry)

can't you stay on the boat...??


ds14 needs ic asap, and you need to be careful with how much you put on his poor shoulders, he is just a kid, and this is his mother...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 8:47 PM, September 26th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

unfortunately my boat is not a live aboard. I spend some nights offshore, but just sleeping on the deck.

DS14's brother will be home the next weekend, I hope that will help get him out of the house some.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 10:14 PM, September 26th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

that sucks if you can't stay on the boat....

i am glad that your other son is coming home next weekend....it will be good for all of you...

(((ats)))

try to get some sleep...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
brooke4
♀ Member
Member # 13581
Default  Posted: 3:57 AM, September 27th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Ats,

I hope this isn't taken the wrong way as I'm a very infrequent contributor to the LTA forum these days. I've read a lot of your posts but not all--part of the reason I'm so infrequent is that I can't keep up with you all. I'm sorry you are going through such a horrible time with such an incredibly dysfunctional spouse (and her wacked FOO).

I really think you need to step back, see a lawyer, see how things go. In other words, be sort of passive for a while. BUT--and I apologize in advance if this sounds 2x4ish--you need to stop being so passive about your DS right now.

I get the feeling that he's being forgotten in all this drama swirling around him. His mother is clearly unstable at the very least, he knows what's going on, he's essentially an only child at the moment (and regardless of what he thinks and might look like, that's exactly what he still is--a child). And I keep wondering who's putting him first in all this?

Please put aside as much of your own anguish and drama as possible and make him your priority.

OK. lecture over.


Me: BS, 40, Him: WS 41
Married: 15 years
3 children
D-Day: 10/2005

Posts: 1483 | Registered: Feb 2007
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 6:30 AM, September 27th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi brooke, welcome to LTA.

I do not know your story, but I am sorry you are here with the rest of us. Do you have children? What ages? Are you a BS or WS?

I can assure that I hang on to neither anguish nor drama for their own sake. I have shed much, and continue to work to have comments about not being family, never loved by my spouse, being a hated piece of shit from step daughter I helped to raise, and my FWW's involvement with 4 om over 3+ years just roll off of my back. You just may not see this in my posts.

The fact is when you look at my DS and adult stepdaughters, the more time I have been in their lives the better they are doing in their lives.


--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 6:54 AM, September 27th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Um..... Ats..... no contact from your wife last night?


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
brooke4
♀ Member
Member # 13581
Default  Posted: 7:16 AM, September 27th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Hi Ats,

I'm a BS. My H had a 2.5 year affair and I have three children (one very close to your son's age).

I wasn't for a second implying that you are holding onto anything and hope it didn't come off that way. I was trying to say that you are in the midst of some pretty awful stuff. Your wife seems to be drowning and her entire family seems toxic beyond belief.

My point was that there isn't much you can do to save your wife from herself unless and until she's ready to make the commitment to heal. But that you can save your son. It sounds like you are the only sane one in your son's life at this point, but from some of your posts, it sounds like he has been back-burnered a bit in the midst of this storm.

Brooke


Me: BS, 40, Him: WS 41
Married: 15 years
3 children
D-Day: 10/2005

Posts: 1483 | Registered: Feb 2007
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 7:35 AM, September 27th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

brooke4

DS14 is doing as well as can be expected. While is Mother does not do well with adults, she is great with kids. My posts do not contain a lot of his life, it did not seem relevant.

He is attending the same HS school his older brother graduated from last year. He is hanging with the same group of kids his older brother did, all "band geeks", no smokers, no drinkers. Parents of all the kids in this group check up on them, and half their activities are a movie night at someone’s house.

He has band practice 2 nights a week, I pick him up. He also has marching in football games on Fridays, FWW and I go (went?), I provide the snack money. He is in a rigorous (IB) program, and I monitor much of the homework/school work. He does chores for me (mowing, laundry, dishes). We do volunteer work together (coastal habitat restoration), he goes out on the boat with me to fish and to help pull stonecrab traps in season.

All in all I think he is doing OK. Much like me before dday, he does not do feelings. I do not think that is bad, but I have a name of a recommended IC for him.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 8:15 AM, September 27th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There are so many sad stories recently in our forum of FWSs who are either unwilling or unable to do the work that is necessary to save their M. They have been given the precious gift of a second chance and treat it as if it has little or no value. It makes me both sad and furious for the BS's who want so much for the M to survive, who want the family to stay intact and who truly want to learn from this and create a more loving, intimate relationship with a spouse who has betrayed them in the worst way possible.
I just cannot for the life of me understand how they could treat such a gift so carelessly.
For those who don't know me, I have been around for a while. My d-day was almost 5 years ago. My H had an 8 year LTA. Our R has been rocky and uncertain but we have made progress and yet?

I might ramble a bit so let me apologize in advance as I struggle with what I've been wanting to say for some time now.

As all of us on this site, but particulary in this LTA forum, understand completely that learning of a S's infidelity is the most heart wrenching, devastating thing a BS has to deal with but when that infidelity lasts for years, when our S has led a double life, perhaps with someone you considered a friend, or has had multiple partners, or in Honest's case, has actually married the OW in another country, the pain we suffer is no less than if we had learned of their death. In fact, we experience this pain as the death of our marriage, of a love we thought we had and now wonder if it has ever existed at all, or was gone long before we realized it. No matter how many times a spouse tells us that they never stopped loving us during their years of betrayal, there is no way I will ever accept that. This is not my definition of love. And so we grieve what we lost or never really had. The destruction that occurs takes us down to the very foundation of our M and it is a pile of debris that we hope somehow, with enough commitment from both, we can start to rebuild. We want this, we long for this, we may even pray for this and we in this LTA forum support one another in this struggle. And where is the FWS? Too many are so busy feeling sorry for themselves, being defensive, trying to get their BS to move on and not working in C'ing to show the BS how truly sorry they are and how much they understand and deeply regret the pain they have caused us.
And so we are here, in the midst of this marital rubble, looking for some sign from them.
I'm not saying that there isn't some effort on their part but from my own personal experience and from many on here, the effort is inconsistent. They do the work to get past an unpleasant episode but fall right back into patterns that bring whatever progress has been made, right back to ground zero.
Now I will tell you what I have come to realize after years of working on my M with a spouse who yes, has tried, but has been inconsistent in his efforts.
I am telling you this not to discourage anyone from trying. This is not my intent. I believe in M and I believe in keeping the family together and giving the M every possible opportunity to survive for this purpose. But there is a price and for me the price has been indifference. I just don't feel "it" anymore. I am in my M for the sole purpose of keeping my family intact (even though they are grown). Any hope that I had to bring my M out of the rubble and into a place of true love, appreciation and connection has been slowly diminishing with each and every insult that followed after d-day.
This is my concern for those of you whose S's continue to add injury to insult. I wish I could make each and every one of them understand what the price will be if they continue down a self-indulgent path.
I get the feeling that some of our FWS's actually believe that if they just discontinue the A they have "reconciled" themselves and therefore the M. They are so wrong to believe this.
I have envied and been so happy for those M's that have gone on to renew their vows and made full and complete commitment to one another to have a healthy loving M after an A. I often wonder what makes the difference in a S who wants this too - who isn't just giving lip service to R but who wants this as deeply as a BS who has offered a second chance.
I read a line in a book recently that really struck me. It said, Rage is like a candle. It will extinguish itself over time. My recovery has been like this. The rage and pain and hurt have slowly gone away but unfortunately have been replaced with indifference.
I guess I am posting this as a warning to FWS' who take our gift so lightly. Their will be a price even if that price is not D. D is not the worst thing that can happen to a M. Indifference is a painful outcome too.

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 1:08 PM, September 27th (Monday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 8:17 AM, September 27th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

brooke welcome to the lta corner again...

--part of the reason I'm so infrequent is that I can't keep up with you all.

do not ever let this deter you, we are quite chatty...and there are a few of us who need to go back time and time again to keep up...but the gist is always the same....we get on a topic and we all put in our 2 cents, some of us ramble on... ....other then that we are here for each other in times of crisis...the acute kind...so feel free to join in as you did today...

now ats: how are you this am....one thing you posted that kind of jumped a bit..

he does not do feelings. I do not think that is bad

it isn't good ats, he needs to be in touch with his feelings, or he will carry them over to future relationships..now i realize that men are a different entity then women...but they hurt the just the same my friend...you are a testament to that one yourself...and he may not do feelings because he doesn't know how....so i would use that name now while you can still control his going, not like me with my dd18, i wish i could make her go but she refuses and at 18 there is nothing i can do about it...so don't wait til you are in the same boat...


have you spoken to mrs ats today?


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 8:20 AM, September 27th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

fnf: from your lips to the ears that can make the difference...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
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