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Has anyone ever reconciled with a WS who proclaims no love? I do not mean after dday fog I do not love you. Apparently the only adult FWW ever felt "true love" for was an AP during her first M, and looking back she now sees that he used her. She says, and MC supports, that she has never had an emotionally intimate relationship with an adult. This is deeply rooted in FOO issues. She does not even think of me as a friend.

She says she wants a relationship with me. I can see her trying, but...

How long do you wait for someone to fall back in love with you? It only took a few months with the OM, why so long with me? Am I being a fool? with no love, if I am not even considered a friend, then what am I besides a "nice guy"? What is sex, but an obligation (she as little to no sex drive) if there is no love?

IC/MC says she is changing, and it is my decision if it is fast enough. Has anyone gone through this? Advice?

I don't believe it was love with the AP. That relationship was all about the WS "feeling good". A drug, if you will. Special, magic connection--whatever. That ain't love. Love is something you do, something you share, something the evolves and grows and tests you.

Affection, sexual attraction, respect, humor--imo these are the building blocks of love. Do you see any of these in your relationship?

My fWH still says he's confused about "love". We've been in R for almost a year. He won't say "I love you" to me anymore - and he says he doesn't know what "love" is. I think he's trying to say is that he "thought" or "felt" like he was "in love with the second OW" - though he knows (but doesn't feel like it) now - through IC and MC - that it wasn't "real".

And he knows "love" is supposed to be a "choice" and the building blocks stated...

Affection, sexual attraction, respect, humor--imo these are the building blocks of love.

are building blocks..

and my FWH is trying.. but I too wonder how long do I wait for my FWH to really "love" me again OR do I accept how far he's come and tried and HOPE that it will continue to get better and he will "love" me again they way I want and I think I deserve.

But my FWH seems to still "hold on" to that

"feeling good". A drug, if you will. Special, magic connection--whatever.

OF course that isn't "love". But there is a part of him that still believes it (or wants to believe it) - while he too "fell in love" in just 5 months and compares it to "our 25 years of love" being married.

I don't stand a chance to that "new love feeling" if he believes that is "LOVE".

I don't know how long I can take it... but he's trying.

Your W doesn't know what love is. That is what the IC/MC are trying to help her discover for herself.

I would agree with this statement.

Affection, sexual attraction, respect, humor--imo these are the building blocks of love. Do you see any of these in your relationship?

Ats, you run the risk of doing everything right, both of you, and it not end up in love.

Do you love her? If the answer is yes, then that should play a part in whatever decision you make.

I will say this, in my own journey, my W has had a hard time coming to grips with her FOO/Codependcey/etc. that lead to her part in the failed marriage, that led to the A. She contended that she never loved me, but has come to realize that that simply was/isn't true.

Your Wife has a lot of baggage to sort through to heal herself and truly know if she loves you or not. Some of her statements are rooted in guilt, shame, over the life she lived- Anger at what was handed down to her from FOO.

Your work that you demanded and made in both of you has opened her up to the fact that 'she says she wants a relationship'. A couple of weeks ago she wanted a Divorce, but you worked through it.

You keep asking about a timeframe only you can set that one. There is no magic dust/potion for this/ what was torn, maybe from the beginning, will take continued effort and work to fix. (i am speaking about my own situation too). Your fidelity earned you the right to pull the plug on this anytime you want and do so with a clean conscience. However, I sense that there would be regret, on your part, if you pulled it right now. That could be a guide for you as you move forward. Pull the plug when/if you feel you won't regret it.

[This message edited by getting by at 8:46 AM, September 7th (Tuesday)]

I'll also say that my WS valued/revered that "magic connection with the OW" thing for 18 months past the beginning of R. He loved me, he knew and I knew it. But he still thought what they had was "special" for a long time.

IC helped him with that.

When WW said she didnt think she ever loved me my response was "why did we have children?". That stopped her dead in her tracks.

My WW has suppressed her feelings for me so that the feelings for OM give her the validation she needs. Although she is ambivalent towards me its the little things she does that tell me the feelings are there she just wont let them out. I dont know how some people can compartmentalise there emotions so well.

I work on me thats all I can do & hope that she opens that door to my emotions one day.

I guess everyone has his/her own definition of R. Personally, I won't consider FWW and I to be reconciled until we're in love again, if that ever happens. Until then, we're just "trying to reconcile".

If we didn't have children, I would have been gone long ago. When I can honestly believe that I would stay if we didn't have children, I'll consider us reconciled.

JMHO.

Apparently the only adult FWW ever felt "true love" for was an AP during her first M

'True love' ? What does she mean by that? Is 'love' not sufficient? Why does it need the tautology of the adjective? Am very confused by your wife's definitions here, and given it's application to an OM, it seems highly romanticised, and about what she may have loved about herself rather than him. So this 'true love' never matured into a longlasting sustainable relationship? Safe enough to idealise it...but the words seem imprecise, without analysis or clarity. Are you in danger of allowing you both to pejoratively compare the presumably heady

conditions of that A to the routine of an everyday where there is not the attraction of forbidden fruit? And herself as Madame Bovary or some other heroine?

It seems from your posts that your relationship with your wife is the only one she has had in which there has been a real intimacy, with the REAL person, not the person she hoped he thought she was. I guess she was also a much younger self too (it seems?) and wonder what part age played in both her feelings about that AP then and now.

How can you know she loved the OM? If she doesn't know what love is and hasn't loved another adult then it sounds like she's not allowed herself to experience love in the way you are thinking.

How can you know she loved the OM?

OM from A during her 1st M she told me was "true love" for the first couple of months after our dday. After we ran through the reality of that relationship a few times she now realizes how very wrong she was about him.

The OM in her A in our M, she clearly did not love them, not them her. Still, she felt something for them within months. She was fond of them, they were good friends. She recants this now in hindsight, but still there were affectionate feelings.

I just wonder after 20+ years of M, raising 4 kids (2 hers, 2 ours), taking care of each other...how long does "love" take. Maybe even friends if it is FWB Will my love for her dissipate before her love for me coalesces?

IF what your WW and her IC have determined is true, then it sounds like she has a *severe* personality disorder, akin to BPD or NPD. Reconciling someone who has no fundamental foundations of love... that is a frightening journey on which to embark.

Reconciling someone who has no fundamental foundations of love...

hutbs, it would seem that is my dilemma. She has questions if she is BPD or Histrionic. I do not believe she is either, but she does have traits, although many people have some of the traits.

So long as she “acts” loving, is this enough? Has anyone successfully R’d with a spouse who struggled with intimacy?

Forget about love. Invest in yourself. Once again and boy was I guilty of trying to earn her love. My WW needs to earn mine or she can leave.

This is bad in many ways. Who is the cheater here?