read the first chapter or the introduction of the PISD book.
I happened to start reading it again last night.. and the first few paragraphs describe how people's attitudes about marriage have changed... how today they are looking for this 'excitement' in their marriages...
as opposed to valuing what people did in the past- loyalty, devotion.
and Dr. Ortman attributes this unrealistic search for excitement to the growing divorce rate...
We had fallen into the typical marriage doldrums, we were taking each other for granted etc., we did stop havinf 'fun' together.
The marriage represents work,responsibility, problems,reality etc.
The affair is...fun.. a chance to escape from reality..to have someone lie to you and flatter you..a chance to drink and party...
But things were not good at work – there was a nasty time when H was trying to find a way out of his contract of employment which had a covenant saying he couldn’t work in the industry for a year if he left. And he was being poached by a competitor with a very attractive offer. I think he felt trapped and we (the boys and me) represented responsibility. MOW offered escape and (although he would never admit it) an alternative if his employers hit him hard and we lost everything. And I mean the house, the car,savings - the lot. He went to the competitor and his employers took him to court. I did as much as I could to support him, even going through all the paper blitz of receipts showing his hotel and entertaining bills!!! We never engaged a lawyer and did it all ourselves. It was a real possibility that things could go very sour. He could have gone to MOW, leaving us with nothing, picked up and started again with her. The case went on for two years. It drove him near to the edge, although appearances suggested he was determined and strong.
I was part of the problem, even though I was his support. She was a solution of sorts. And an escape from reality.
I find it hard to think about forgiveness when I analyse what he did and why. Sometimes it seems so cold and calculating. But am I trying to put it down to one “reason” or is it a myriad of circumstances that led to the affair? Or is it just that he was plain arrogant and selfish? IDK.
how people's attitudes about marriage have changed...
[This message edited by UKgirl at 11:50 AM, September 11th (Saturday)]
Thank you for your words NJGal - it's comforting to see someone move on from similar circumstances.
Gotta run... at some point these kids are going to want to eat or drink something, so off I go...
Peace to the tribe!
I really wish it was clear that it was NPD, but sometimes he seems so normal and generous and nice.
NJgal: I don't have a niece or a daughter, but I know what you mean. The first reaction to my sitch is to RUN!!! But there are other things I have in consideration that I don't want to mention on an open forum, and also the finances.
It's about time to really get that moving.
It's so hard to do things in a month's time.
DS15 is upset and angry and resentful. Both DS's keep talking about visiting overseas. DS 15 tells me I'm keeping him from going, I'm keeping him in prison (sounds like WH), and it's a knife in the heart.
I am really working at detaching. I am doing my own 180 in a weird way. I am trying to ACT for WH's NPD fuel. It's a conscious thing for me to feel in control.
I HATE PLAYING GAMES. I never have. But, I'm acting as nice as I can, but putting up boundaries in my mind as much as I can. Maybe I'm not playing, I am surviving and fighting for my life and sanity.
I'm trying to formulate plans to carry through. Form my own relationships without WH.
One thing that helped today was that we went to WH's cousin's house for a family party. WH's cousin was giving him some digs about how WH acts like he's God's gift to creation and it went right over WH's head. It made me feel good that at least there is someone who actually SEES WH for what he is!!!
I guess I need that validation, because everyone thinks WH is SOOOOOO wonderful.
I hope everyone had a good day. We were in Manhattan today, quiet there today. Passed by the Empire State Building and I thought of my grandfather who was an electician working on it when it was being built.
God bless America.
I basically allowed my husband to act as if he were still single.
I allowed him to go out and 'party' with friends after work....
I did this too and never thought anything of it. I TRUSTED HIM! H met OW in a bar, she was in a "bad marriage" and he was her KISA. I think she divorced hoping that my H would leave his M.
Things have changed drastically here also, no more going out, no more seeing drinking buddies (most of his friends were single). We have "new friends", we are trying to do "new activities".
njgal is correct...those that are younger have more years to build a new marriage, a better marriage. Sometimes I day dream and try to picture what my M will be in 5 years or 10 years and if the pain will subside and I will be happy in my M. If I can respect and trust H again, if I can love H again without the A always getting in the way?
DS 15 tells me I'm keeping him from going,
I basically allowed my husband to act as if he were still single.
I did this too and never thought anything of it. I TRUSTED HIM!
The affair (the main one, anyway) will always be there. It has served to separate us. The only way I will be rid of MOW is if she dies. I do wonder if it’s really over. I can see her coming back for another try. At least I know how I’d deal with it.
Today, he’s golfing and I’m painting DS3’s room. In my old clobber. Which I hate him seeing me in.
And he’s acting a little strange. Not sure if it’s to do with me being hyper alert after yesterday, or if something is going on. A bit too attentive, kwim?
Since FWW is reading “my book” Walking on Eggshells, I have moved on to another on entitled how to improve your marriage without talking about it by Love and Stosny. I am only partially through this book, but I can recommend it for understanding why your husbands react as they do in some situations. Some of the anecdotes they use in the book could be word for word experiences I have had. While I am getting better at talking and doing feelings, this book is dead on for much of how I was/am. I suspect that it is true for many other men. I am not saying this book is an excuse for behavior that does not work for you, but it does put it in context of what comes natural as opposed to him just being an insensitive jerk. I still need to work to communicate with FWW in a manner that she accepts and understands, but this book does a good job of explaining the baseline male internal thoughts and feelings.
UKgirl, I gave/accepted FWW having a great deal of freedom too. I was proud that I was comfortable and confident enough to let her live her life. She says she thought that meant I did not care about her
Honesttoafault, I would be inclined to escalate with my DS if he started ranting about prison, and show him what real prison and restriction is like. Not a healthy response, but my initial reaction. For better or worse, you are the only parent he has. A biological father, who spends much of his time away, is married to another woman, and blames is wife for his issues is not a parent. Your DS I presume is welcome to visit with his father whenever his father is around. Just a question, does your WS stay at your house when he visits? If so, maybe as a part of the 180 he should stay at a hotel when he visits so long as he is married to OW? It is inappropriate for a married man to stay in the same house/bedroom as another woman. I know you are worried about the finances, but that is his control over you. He is not going to allow you to have financial independence. I presume his assets are primarily out of this country, and that the OW would have more success forcing him to share “joint property” than you would. If you take action sooner rather than later you could at least have CS has a condition of visitation.
Conventional wisdom is that the A damage must be repaired or on the way to healing in order to then address the underlying M problems. I am in an interesting situation where FWW really cannot deal with the A issues to the degree I would like until she is in a better place emotionally. In fact, if she does not love me or see me as a friend, I understand there is little incentive for her to be open and truthful about the past As. I am confident that I am safe for the time being as we go forward. Beyond that, I am really getting a sense of resignation to the fact I will just have to accept what did, or did not, or might have happened. I guess I will see over time if that is OK with me or not.
i must be pms'ing or something, the tears seem to flow so easy these days...making the getting through them a bit tougher, but not impossible...i am learning to look forward to things...trying really hard to live in the present and leaving the past in the past..the triggers make it a bit more challenging though...
i went walking in the mall again today, only got to seem some of my peeps there, i was late...and it was so so nice to hear the "hey, where have you been"'s...it really is awesome to be missed, even by these people who are virtual strangers...
and to add to the current conversation about giving all the freedom...pfm had all the freedom he could ever want, i too never wanted him to resent me from keeping him from doing what he wanted...the irony in that one...
but honestly i don't think freedom has anything to do with it, ow #1, the one who was in his life forever was on a tight leash with her own bh...so it really means nothing...where there is a will there will always be a way....kind of why i trust nothing at all anymore...when he says where he is, means nothing...who's to say he is alone, or that he doesn't then leave and then come back....phone records mean nothing, we are in the age where there are throw away phones, we live in a time where infidelity is easy...and in my case the infidelity started before all the ease of technology and still it was pulled off in epic proportions....
freedom has nothing to do with it....the sense of entitlement that comes with a lta...well i think that is it in a nutshell....
and mostly because they can....
honest: before you do anything, line up your ducks and make sure you are covered for several months to a year...i believe he will screw you over, and use money to try and control you, so make sure you have some thing to fall back on...so don't do anything til you do....and remember, you can "get sick" to get out of anything...
Miracle: sorry you are down. Is this something PFM is doing or just something else that came up? You are just in such a terrible sitch - I'm glad you got to meet up with people this weekend at least. (And if you are ready for that walk in the park - next Mon is good for me.)
As for me: I'm getting happier with my life - tho those loving feelings are still evading me. We did a lot with the kids - all of us together - I think this is really the only way I am going to be able to let my H back in my heart - by showing me how loving he is with the kids & how we can be just 1 big, happy family. I have to admit, it was exhausting tho. And, I hope he can remember to continue to do thiw kind of stuff - show me he is family first, without me making an issue of it.
Talk to y'all tomorrow.
All goods...glad to hear that you had some nice family time together...that always helps me also..when we spend time together with our children..it reminds me of what we are.. a family...so eventhough my kids are grown and on their own it does help me also...
miracle..so sorry that you were struggling this weekend...
sending you hugs from NJ!
do you walk for exercise in the mall? I do that also.. when the weather is bad and I can't walk outdoors...and yes, there are some regulars...
hope you are OK.
no pfm is not up to anything...just lots of triggers, everyday stuff that if things were normal would be nothing because they are supposed to be nothing...they aren't nothing anymore is all...from the cellphone ringing (which is nonstop), all cellphone activity, to going to pick up something at a store....normal crap that isn't normal anymore...intellectually i know that these are normal activities...but then again there is no normal anymore is there...
emotions...can't control them sometimes, wish i could...
njgal: yes when the weather sucks i walk at the mall, daily....there are regulars in both places i walk...and its nice to see them...there is something comforting about being part of a group....kind of like this group....even though they serve quite different purposes....yet the same ...both groups give me a sense of belonging, and not being alone in whatever it is i am doing....walking or posting..
allgood you have apm
iwam, I am so sorry that you are having a rough day. ((iwam))
I understand those triggers. Almost all the time, everywhere you go. It pervades one's life.
Keep posting Miracle, let us help you. You have helped all of us so very much.
Miracle - I know what you mean about the tears. Some days I'm good and others it's water-works all day. The sadness can be overwhelming at times. Hang in there!
A step in the right direction.