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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affair Part 19
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 7:56 PM, September 8th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

...and they're unremorseful if they don't do EVERYTHING to help you heal and regain your trust. They better stand on their head and sing the ABC's backwards every AM if that's what you want!

Not even close in my case! WH came home today and we had the dreaded talk. I was dreading it because I was so afraid that he was still in the fog. Sure enough...the only things he brought up about my e-mail were the things that he felt were unjustified. In other words...he still feels picked on. Oh well. I guess it was too much to hope for. We each has IC appts. tomorrow and I'll see what impression the counselor as of her visit with him. Although I half-expected it, I am disappointed tonight. And the nightmare continues....


Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 9:51 PM, September 8th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nofun: I'm glad I made you laugh, that was my intention.

Update on I4 story. This morning, WH sheepishly gives me the phone he bought and says it's for me. <sigh>

I just said thank you and asked how it worked.

I'm trying not to engage with him in any real conversation. Just keeping it superficial, just the way he likes it.

It's just so sad. Throughout our marriage, we always got along. Never argued. Of course, this is because I usually gave in.

When we are not talking about "our problems", we get along fine.

I'm just trying to be civil and friendly in the way you would be with a house guest, just for peace.

This is not a life.

But, it is nice to have someone here.

It is nice for the kids to have their father here and sit with him and hug them.

Sunday, WH, DS12 and I took a walk along the beach. DS12 kept walking between us, putting his arms around the both of us, kept asking are we having a good time.

I wanted to cry for him. I know what he was doing....I felt the same as a child too. Trying to make sure Mommy and Daddy are happy, keeping them together.

I have no choice. There is absolutely no hope for R EVER.

I was hoping I could go on for a few years to get everything settled....but it will have to be quicker.

I need to protect my mental health.

The day after WH came, there was a disagreement we had right before we were going to take the kids to the beach. They were so happy that Daddy was going with them.

As usual, I gave in (I was well aware of what I was doing) because I didn't want to have a big blow out while the kids were waiting.

When I did as WH asked, he comes up to me and then hugs me.

OMG, I felt it as abuse for the first time!!!! I was intimidated to do it his way, and then patted on the head for "obeying". I have lived like this for 18 years.

I guess being seperated for 3 months and a week has helped.

Hugs to all.

{{{{tribe}}}}


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 5:47 AM, September 9th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Strongish: I'm sorry you didn't get the result you wanted. Sometimes it just takes a lot more time before it sinks in, and even then, some of our WS are just not capable (or willing) to give what we want - so we have to decide what we need.

Keep trying, you never know. I can't tell you how many of "those" talks I had with my H. He didn't defend himself, but I wasn't getting the response I needed either. It took me awhile to realize how hard it is for him to really think about his feelings (frightening) and discuss them. He's a little better now, but at least doing tangible things that I can say he's trying/committed. Still not enough in my estimation, mind you, but for whatever reason, I seem to have turned a corner and have felt "normal" for almost a week now. Plenty of triggers, but none that disabled me or caused me to discuss the A with my H.
Keep trying and take care of yourself in the meantime.

Honest: that's heartbreaking - your son's efforts to keep you guys happy.... I think it's a good strategy to keep things superficial for your kids - BUT - I think you need to put some limits on this time with WH - even if you need to feign illness, etc to do it.
And - as far as finances go - if you believe he is going to claim he has no money - keep very good records of the money he sends to you & how much all of your bills cost on a monthly basis this way you can PROVE how much it costs to run your house (in addition to his living accommodations over there) and as you are not working - then PROVE what he earns.
Also - do you have photos or anything of the houses, etc. overseas?
Just an idea.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 6:32 AM, September 9th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

honest:

i know that feeling well, the one where you want your parents to be happy and together...i lived it, but boy am i happy that it never worked out, my dad was useless as a father and i dont know that i would have turned out the way i did and if nothing else i really do like myself......which imo is important, it helps draw lines when needed kwim

so i was wrong thinking that if they got together that my life would better...i was wrong in thinking that i would have my fairytell family....i really believe that is the biggest reason i stayed in my sham of a marriage...so my kids could have what i did not....and still stay....i have given them so much of what i wanted as a kid, siblings, the sense of belonging, and 2 parents in the same house....not to mention that pfm was at least good for making money, so we have a nice house with lots stuff for them....and they are spoiled, but not by wealth but by loving intentions...

so as much as it breaks your heart honest, know in the heart that you are doing what is best for your kids...


my sil reminded me of something that oprah said a long time ago.....

the best gift you could ever give your children is to honor their mother.....

honest, your ws as well as mine are an EPIC FAIL on this one....

i am only honored (sort of) now because he is afraid of being out....i also think he is afraid of being completely alone...


strong: tell us about your ws...is he really like honest's ws...i don't mean the bigamy part but the callous part.....cause i have to be honest, if after being caught at something like this, and no remorse is there, well its just not a good sign of what is to come....and to me that is more then fog, it complete disrespect for you and quite another matter.....


fun: it is good to see you posting more, and sounding better...i know the rollercoaster sucks, but the only way off is through...

allgood: you sound so so good....more sure of your path at the very least...it is freeing when you have this plan and some of it works out, it helps keep things in perspective which helps you keep your balance...and i am so proud of you, you are handling this entire mess so well, with much commonsense and enough love to go against it when necessary....


dip: its been awhile...how are those alligators...i hope you didn't get bit..


ats: things have been somewhat calm for you in the last couple of days...i hope it remains so...when do you both go to c again...


(((tribe)))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 6:48 AM, September 9th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

i am only honored (sort of) now because he is afraid of being out....i also think he is afraid of being completely alone...

Miracle - I honestly believe this in my case also.

I think my FWH was "Scared Straight." That's what I told the MC and he actually agreed. MC also told me that I should have filed for D 10 years ago because of his verbally abusive and controlling behavior. He said the same thing that a lot of SI'ers say...you can always stop the D but sometimes it's the filing that wakes them up and makes them realize that you are serious and what they have to lose.

I had a talk with FWH last night and I told him that it was only fair to be honest with him. I wanted him to know that I will never ever go through this again and if I ever find out he has any contact with OW, has another affair, or even inappropriate dealings with another woman, I'M GONE...even if I don't have clear proof but only suspicions. H said he understands and he will never do anything to hurt me again. It was just something I needed to say to him. So now if it happens, I need to follow through with it.

Peace to all the tribe today!


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:40 AM, September 9th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well… 2 years ago on this day, I got a letter in the mail from a “Christian”. This letter was the day I woke up to the most frightening, shocking, and began the most sickening days of my life to come.

What I have now become since that day is a man that has a very good and complete understanding about life’s abuse, cruelty, fear and I can cry again…I know more about life’s relationships, marriage, family, love, mental illness, compassion, sacrifice and faith. But the greatest thing I learned was to know how to forgive.

On that day 2 years ago, when the horrible secret was exposed, my wife repeated over and over phrase that is now permanently etched in my mind, yet a question that is asked in every crisis… What do I do… What do I do… What do I do… What do I do… What do I do???

Well, what you do is…. pick yourself up, stand up, dust yourself off and forge ahead to make a good day of it….

Peace be with you all!


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 8:19 AM, September 9th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

fun: i think your stance is a good one...the only thing i would ask that you might reconsider is what you might percieve as a suspicion.....i understand we do not always have proof, and there are instances where everything points that way....there are also the times when what it looks like may not be what it is...

tryn: all i could say is


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 8:25 AM, September 9th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi trynhard, you can be proud of the progress and success that you and your wife have had working through this.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3968 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 8:26 AM, September 9th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ATS --

I like to think I am not settling, but working through a process with FWW, but... ouch

You are. My WH isn't remorseful yet either. I truly believe they have to get reasonably healthy before they can feel true remorse.

I can honestly say this is probably the ONLY time in my life when I would even have bothered to try to R. It's just so hard to go it alone with 4 kids -- 3 of them under 4 -- 2 of them under 2! It could be done; and it will be done if it's needed, but unless there is some major crisis, he's got the gift of time in that it's more convenient for me not to get a D right now. It buys him time to regain my trust, if that's what he truly wants to do.

I am, however, steadily arranging my reality, and keeping mental notes, so that going back to running it all by myself (which is what I pretty much was always forced to do before Dday) isn't too onerous.

Anyway, enough about me. Keep us updated Honest.

Nofun -- how are you going to work on your mindset so that you're 100% ready to back up that ultimatum? He was looking for her just weeks ago -- you might really have to pull the plug. How are you going to get yourself ready for that?

We're a funny bunch. What I see here is a group of people who are so committed to M that they are trying to forgive a most heinous betrayal, an LTA, a double life, and yet, we must all accept and prepare for the possibility that we will need to leave. It's hard to build a decent M with that specter hanging overhead. A challenge I keep butting my head against.

ETA -- it is my hope that I am in such good shape on my second antiversary.

I admire your progress and I just want to hug you on this difficult day. ((tryn))

Also, interesting article:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/print/2010/07/the-end-of-men/8135/

This is the society that we women working to forgive a WH are operating in. I must say, I do struggle with the whole, "Why bother, when he's going to have to shell out big $ for child support if we D?"

[This message edited by m334455 at 8:33 AM, September 9th (Thursday)]


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 9:32 AM, September 9th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What I see here is a group of people who are so committed to M that they are trying to forgive a most heinous betrayal, an LTA, a double life, and yet, we must all accept and prepare for the possibility that we will need to leave

Oofa.
Well said, sad, but true.

Tryn: not sure what the appropriate response is. (Tribe we really need to get this infidlity cards for all occasions thing off the ground...) - I guess I'll go with.... I wish you peace?


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 9:44 AM, September 9th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

More long discussions this morning. WH's time clock is all messed up from international travel so he was up at 3:30 am and then I couldn't go back to sleep. After our conversation last night I was still pretty angry so I slept on the couch upstairs. I thought WH was already asleep, turns out he wasn't and although he didn't say anything at the time it upset him that I did that. I knew it would but I was still angry and didn't want to pretend that everything was okay. But it is very difficult for me to do something that I know will hurt him, even though I feel like it's what I need. Crazy, huh? WH is scheduled to leave again this afternoon and he asked if it would be better for me if he left or if he canceled this trip. Although I knew that his feelings would be hurt I told him it was easier for me if he was gone. This is a huge step for me...putting my needs ahead of his. This is my version of the 180.

It took me awhile to realize how hard it is for him to really think about his feelings (frightening) and discuss them.

We talked in the wee hours of the morning and WH has FINALLY admitted that he did in fact lie about the A. This was a huge sticking point for me. He let down some of his defenses and we were able to have what I consider a meaningful conversation. But...I've been down this road before and I'm trying to protect myself from a potential return to his fog state. I've had days like this where is seems like he "gets it" and the next day he's blame-shifting again, so I'm wary. I told him exactly that and that's why I was not going to be able to trust that this was a true change of heart.

We have back-to-back IC sessions today. I'm anxious to see if he/we make any progress. Our counselor still doesn't want to see us together (we did two joint sessions to start with and now we are seeing her separately for IC). She told me that I still have a lot of anger and she wants to keep working with me on that. And WH has to find his emotions. He is still very cut off from any sort of feelings, but it seems like some things are starting to get through.

Keep me in your thoughts tribe. This is so hard, so very hard.


Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 12:06 PM, September 9th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What does she mean when she says she'd like to work on your anger?

Your anger is MORE than appropriate. JMHO.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 2:28 PM, September 9th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So.... the roller coaster continues.

I am starting to feel a bit more anxious due to certain issues inherent in my H's career. At least I can identify it. And, at least the lows are not as low anymore, that's for damn sure.
Tried to reach out to my H - he tried - I guess - but he just so sucks at comforting me that I almost get madder at his feeble attempts than anything else.

I'm trying to focus on the positive tho - I didn't spiral out of control and he didn't get frustrated, and he tried...

Just a mini-update. I'm actually ok now - my kids were singing a song on the ride home today - something like "I throw my hands up in the air sometimes, saying...." (idk what they were saying, lol). That's how I feel sometimes. Like - enough is enough - I'm sick of feeling like crap & I'm just gonna go along for the ride.
Gots to go...

[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 2:30 PM, September 9th (Thursday)]


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 3:41 PM, September 9th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats: things have been somewhat calm for you in the last couple of days...i hope it remains so...when do you both go to c again...

Xanax

We go tomorrow morning. FWW has been trying to keep connected after withdrawing last weekend in a depression about discussing/thinking about being bpd or having bpd traits. She says she is not sure if she will flat out ask our C his diagnosis tomorrow or not.

Last night she was 1+ hours late getting home due to an issue at work running long. I told her it made me anxious, no good reason, just did. She told me once she was approaching an hour late she started watching for me to drive by to see if her car was there.

She said she was unable to get word to me that she was running late. Now I would just say "excuse me gentlemen, this is running longer than I expected and I do not want my wife to worry", and made the call.

Allgoodnamesgone, glad you survived the mini-trigger. Were the kids singing: throw your hands in the air and wave them like you just don't care? Because I think you were warned about keeping your arms and legs in the cart until the rollercoaster ride is over.

honesttoafault, I feel the conflict in your posts. You want to be free of the disrespect, the fear, the humiliation, but you enjoy having an adult companion, someone to talk to about things, someone you hope will comfort you. I do not think you can make this man(?) happy even if you try to meet his every desire and need. It is not you he is upset with, it is himself and his life. You are just the vessel he vents all of this to, and I see it frustrates him when you put you lid on and he has to deal with his crap himself. BTW, FWW has figured out her iphone, so you do not need his help. Just ask any child

stongish, a small step is still a step. I know about a WS seeming constantly to be a day late and a dollar short. I hope the C goes well for you both today, and that your C is going to help you feel and express your anger, not suppress it.



LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3968 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 4:02 PM, September 9th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What does she mean when she says she'd like to work on your anger?
Your anger is MORE than appropriate. JMHO

Believe me, she knows that my anger is justified but also knows that letting me blow up at my WH all the time is unproductive. It's her job to keep us moving forward and her time with us is limited so instead of us spending our time and money on her being a glorified referee she sees us separately and tries to help us see each other's perspective. She did that today and it was helpful. However, she also acknowledged that infidelity is always unfair to the BS. We get all the pain, none of the gain. I'm struggling mightily with the injustice of it and she gently told me that at some point I'm going to have to come to terms with that or walk away. She recognizes that a part of me wants my WH to suffer as I have, but doesn't think that that will ever happen. So...how much do I love this guy? Enough to bury those feelings? Is that forgiveness?


Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 4:07 PM, September 9th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

at some point I'm going to have to come to terms with that or walk away

I hear you strongish. Further, we have to come to terms with it on our WS's terms (degree of honesty, transparency, TT, etc) or walk away. Which straw is the straw? Do we walk around with a load that almost but not quite breaks our back.

must be time for another Xanax , better yet I think I will take DS fishing tonight.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3968 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 4:27 PM, September 9th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

allgood: i am both happy and sad for your rollercoaster dip....happy for your progress on dealing with those lovely triggers and sad that you had another, happy that he is trying and sad that he is still wanting....time allgood, time


strong: i actually think your c sounds like she is on track....you do need to deal with your anger, we all do...we need to get to the bottom of it or it will consume us...all anger is based on hurt...we need to face it, deal with it and then hopefully put it away

strong...how is your ws dealing with you?..is he showing proper remorse, he is working towards forgiveness....before you even consider forgivenss there are a few steps to take first...the first one is acceptance....and all steps feel impossible if the ws is not doing their part in working for it..kwim


ats: xanax can be a little bit of majic, however for you i think fishing with ds is way way more then majic, its healing...and i think her asking the c tomorrow may be agood thing...i hope the counseler is on board with an extensive evaluation for her...


(((tribe)))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 4:35 PM, September 9th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

They have to put a camera up his penis every three months and if they find nothing they will taper off and hopefully it will end up being once a year. I am feeling guilty right now because I'm laughing after reading this. God forgive me!!!

Fun: Forgive me too!L0L! I couldn't help myself! that's the 1st good laugh I've had in ages!

I am here... trying to keep up when I can 'borrow' internet from someone in the area with unsecured linksys. For the past week I'm been at sis-i-l's... cleaning and packing... then more of the same. And that's before having a team come in for a one-time cleaning before the tenant takes possession. I am T-I-R-E-D. FWH thanks me each night for this and friends are proud of me for 'doing the right thing' where s-i-l is concerned but this taking the high road is not easy. Tomorrow I go home for the day to look after our grandson. I can't wait... like the song says, 'he is my sunshine'... even gives me the biggest smile when I sing it to him <VBG>

Glad the vacationers made out ok. I'm ready for a Calgon day - can't type worth a d*mn today; more backspacing than typing so will go back to working and lurking.
Too much wisdom to comment on... so glad for you guys and gals sharing. Hugs to, & prayers for, all of the tribe. {{{LTA}}}


Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 4:55 PM, September 9th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

just read about tryn's antiversary as I hadn't read the last page before replying in case FWH gets here unexpectedly with m-i-l.

I admire and respect you Tryn. I'd like to be where you are relationship-wise some day... just keep having trouble accomplishing that forgiveness for my sake and his. I thought I had during the 1st year but life showed me I was premature in my thinking.

gotta go... could hear a key in the lock any minute. (yes, I keep the door locked when here or at home alone).


Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 5:46 PM, September 9th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

strong...how is your ws dealing with you?..is he showing proper remorse, he is working towards forgiveness....before you even consider forgivenss there are a few steps to take first...the first one is acceptance....and all steps feel impossible if the ws is not doing their part in working for it..kwim

Most of the time WH doesn't know what to do with me! Today was the first time since DDay (just over 2 mos. ago) that he admitted that he lied about the A. This was a huge step and was a sticking point with me. He would admit to "deceiving" me, "lying by omission", etc. but kept just short of admitting that he out and out lied to me for 5 years. His explanation was that if I had asked he would have told me that he was having an A! Yes, clearly ridiculous but in his fog he thought that this meant that he was still a man of integrity. He finally dropped that facade this morning. I know that he now takes that seriously and I'm starting to think that he may be starting to take me seriously. He has heard me talk about how my former boss has assured me of a full-time job if I need it and has been told by a good friend of HIS that if he has to choose between us. the friend will choose me because of WH's behavior. Some of this is starting to sink in. I was beginning to think that the only way to get through to him was to separate. That's still on the table but I'm committed to waiting 6 mos. from DDay until I make any serious decisions. WH reiterated to me and the IC that his goal is R. He is giving serious consideration to quitting one of his two full-time jobs or give up the masters program he has just started in order to show me that our M is a priority for him. He asked me what I thought he should do and I told him that I would not make that decision for him. The IC supported that. WH wants me to give him a "list" of things he needs to do in order to make this right. He's frustrated that the things he has done are not enough for me. He is seeing IC/MC, he has set up Skype to keep in contact when he is out of the country, he is as transparent as he can be given that he is out of town 5-6 days/week and he has NC with OW. In fact he broke off with her 16 mos. ago before I ever found out about the A. Here's the thing though....I don't have a list of what he needs to do! I told him that this is uncharted territory for me too. I never expected to be in this position and frankly my needs change from one day to the next. One day I need a shoulder to cry on and the next I'm pushing him away. He says, "Well, I'm trying." I said, "Well, try harder." I want him to do some of the heavy lifting, let him come up with some ideas of how to "fix" this. I told him I need for him to win me back and to fight for me. So, who/what does he fight?

My goal for the next 4 mos. is to get stronger and stronger. I want WH to see what he will be missing if he doesn't completely clear the fog.


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