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User Topic: Long Term Affair Part 19
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 11:12 PM, August 18th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We've had that talk, with the MC. She is to tell me she can't talk, but can XX hours later. If she still cannot at XX hours, she let's me know she needs more time. 24 Hours is to be the max.

What is not supposed to happen is she just withdrawls without saying anything.

She has never, NEVER gotten this right.

I am to trust her to tell her when I hurt, to ask for what I want, but she gets away doing nothing.

She would rather be with the alcoholic mother that abused her, the uncle that abused her, her sister and her bil she had an A with, than to say no and be with me on the week before the dday anniversary. Just like last year, she will be away traveling alone the week before she confessed.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 11:23 PM, August 18th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

i think being with those people for her is safe...and i don't mean safe safe...she knows what to expect, what is expected and she doesn't have to step up, she could keep replaying the old tapes of who she was, and struggling not to be...

it is a struggle for them, those ws's who want change but cannot put 2 and 2 together for it either...its like watching a 5 year old learning to tie shoes...no matter how many times you explain he still ties it wrong so that it doesn't tie....

she has issues, plain a simple...you know this...

she is working on said issues...you know this

what you do not know is if she is being "genuine" while working on these issues, if she is ever going to "get it", and finally love you the way you deserve to be loved....

well there is nothing but time to answer those questions...but i do know that for you you will need to exhaust all the possibilities til either she "gets it" or the love dies from all the abuse along the way...

of course the love may not die and you may have just reached your limit, and she
s crossed enough boundaries so that they become the dealbreakers you need to make a break...

but i don't think you are quite there yet ats...but something tells me that if your wife doesn't do some straightening up soon in between these bouts, it aint gonna end too pretty...there comes a point in time that is just beating a dead horse...but like i said i don't believe that horse is dead yet...


(((ats)))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 11:30 PM, August 18th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thanks iwam,

time for me to curl up with my Ambien, you with your Xanax. Maybe we will have reall people to curl up with and soothe us someday.

night,


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 11:33 PM, August 18th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nite ats....


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 6:12 AM, August 19th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok - so everyone is having a crappy week.

I've cried every day this week -which hasn't happened in a long time.

It all started with my little walk down memory lane while looking for ancient financial documents (for a legit non-A related reason) and continued as I watched CougarTown last night. (I'm new to the show, love it btw, but apparently "Jules" gets cheated on all the time.)

H was not home last night & that was fine by me.

I started writing him many drafts of a letter & threw them all away. I think what I want to say would be forever damaging & not conducive to anything really.

My DDay anniversary is next week. We are leaving in a few days to return to the exact same place that we stayed lastyear when I found out, with the same exact people. Lots of family will be around. I've already told my H to be aware that this will be difficult for me and that his usual style of comfort (Asking how I'm doing or just letting me vent) is not going to cut it. Especially as I'm going to have to keepup appearances with his family.
(I am bringing my Ipod - I imagine there's going to be a lot of running on the beach next week.)

Miracle - sorry to hear you are struggling.
Ats - sorry your wife is not paying attention.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:04 AM, August 19th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats... Just a guess, but maybe she doesn't want to talk to you about her visit because she understands she is overstepping your boundary... and IC also says she's wrong for making that choice too. Your family is your blanket. With all the bad decisions she’s made, she’s failed to understand the healthy blanket you both have knitted. That old blanket is soiled... but the strong lure of holding on to something you were born with is strong within... See D with a H in today’s society seems to be acceptable, yet your Mom and Dad somehow give you this… Unconditional??? Do you understand what I am saying?

You cannot control the unhealthy choices she makes... you've done your part and made you boundary and she crosses it. So what are the consequences? For me, let me tell you what I would do. I would write her a letter. Dear W, I pray you get what you need while visiting your mom and dad. God knows today, I can certainly appreciate a Celebration of such an accomplishment. (TELL HER HOW YOU FEEL ONLY…) I feel afraid because you will be close to BIL. I feel… (tell only HOW you feel..) NOT a single line about what you THINK she will feel by going…. End with.. I will be here waiting when you come home with all that I can give to love you….I would give her a free “yard pass” on this.. Go have a fun great weekend… Start working on you, change your mind and loving her.. Keep your boundaries going… yet at the same time give her a break on this… she’s mixed up and it is going to take a while for her to understand who’s blanket to cling to… understand it and stand tall... You still have time to make a solid decision if she continues to cross boundaries you set.. She is working on herself as Iwant says... She is the mother of you children… a bond that is strong too.. just be kind right now… Of course, that is just me and what I would do.

Iwant.. I've always thought this about you... "Strength is a matter of a made up mind"

Allgoodnamesgone..write Feelings only... they are what they are... It works.. I'm telling ya...

M3.. what a great Monument.. You see that often huh? Neat... I love Washington.. OK my next art is for Paper...A vision I had last week it is beautiful.. not ugly.. I'll post it shortly.. lol

Anyway.. off to take my daughter to college.. I pray all to have think positive today that our troubled past will go away with todays winds...

[This message edited by trynhard at 7:32 AM, August 19th (Thursday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 7:29 AM, August 19th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

While I was in the movie she texted that she had a bad IC session, could not talk to me and did not want to be comforted. Hmmm

ATS - first, let me say how sorry I am that this is happening. You deserve so much more but unfortunately, because of your W's FOO issues, I don't think she is able to give you want you need and deserve at this time.
I find it interesting that she had a bad IC session. Oh but to be a fly on the wall in that session!
I wonder since you said her IC is also your MC (is this correct or am I wrong about this) if he/she would meet with you. I know it is not possible for them to discuss your W's session but possibly your C could help you to come up with a plan on how to deal with your feelings or even suggest an appropriate response to your W's decision to go to this party. If your C is the one who your W saw yesterday I would strongly suggest making an appointment asap.
((((((((ATS)))))))))
Miracle & Allgood - Just wanted to send you both some hugs. This journey can be so tough and the urge to just quit and run as fast as you can in another direction can be so strong but I can tell you from my own experience, I am happy that I did hang in there and didn't give up on my M during those extremely painful periods.
Allgood - with your "antiversary" coming up, these can be the toughest times to deal with. Perhaps you can give your H a few suggestions on how he can help you get through this upcoming trip with his family. Apparently he needs some help in this area and it might help to avoid any unnecessary stress and pain if he knows in advance what it is he can do to help you.
For me the most important thing I needed during these times was for my H to just hold me, tell me repeatedly how sorry he was to have hurt me, to reassure me that he would never want to hurt me like this again and that I was safe. He could never tell me these things enough and even now, almost 5 years later, I still occasionally need him to do this for me.
Also, our MC told him on a number of occasions that the worst thing he could do would be to get defensive. It took my H some time to get there but eventually he did and this was also so helpful in believing in him. When my H got defensive, it always made me feel like he was hiding something, that he was still guilty of some new or undiscovered betrayal. Our S's need to get this message through their thick skulls - defensiveness is absolutely the wrong approach and will only create more problems for R.
Miracle - are you feeling any better this morning? Was PFM aware of what you were going through and if so, how did he respond??
I hope he was able to come through for you if even in a small way.
((((((((Miracle & Allgood))))))))


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 8:22 AM, August 19th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the support Tribe.

fnf, we each use our MC for IC, and I have a previously scheduled appointment for next week. Certainly, if this is not resolved by then, I will address it with him. In the past he has been open in talking about WW when I have asked specifics, after all the purpose of the IC is to supporting our R. Honesttoafault had commented on using one C for everything, and I understand that concern. I first found him when I was having panic attacks when WW gas lighted me in 2007. He was great helping me work through my crap, a very non-medication focused therapist. After dday, we needed to go to someone, so I suggested him for MC. WW has been very receptive to him, although she is sometimes angry when he calls her out on things.

Trynhard, good luck with the college drop-off. Within 12 hours of dropping DS18 off yesterday, the campus police stopped him for riding his bike at night with no lights. Just a warning, but so it begins… I agree that in her IC yesterday he probably called her out for putting her family ahead of our family, and for putting me in the position of having to trust her while she goes to a triggery event. I don't know how many more passes I want to write. It has been 6 months since we first talked in MC about WW not unilaterally withdrawing from communication, but instead telling me she needed to and providing a time for re-engagement. This has never happened.

As for the trip to her parent's anniversary, I have discovered other issues, but I do not want to go into them in this open forum. I know WW has visited SI to read (not sure she knows about LTA), and I am concerned about tipping my hand too much should our relationship become adversarial in the next few months. It is more than just her wanting to go fit in at the party. She has said and done other things that are creating suspicion of where she is headed, and there are some other details about this party. In the interest of full disclosure, I should mention that my paranoia and suspicion has spiked just about fully back to dday levels. Suffice to say, this trip for the party will occur almost exactly one year after her trip to visit a family member last September. During that trip is when I found the information that led to the outing of her As. BIL was deeply involved in this information. She will return from the trip, and the next week will be our dday A.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 8:57 AM, August 19th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats. Your paranoia is justified. There are just too many reasons for you to not feel comfortable with this trip. Don't blow your cover here or anywhere else.

miracle. Do you need a mudslide or two?

Allgood. Damn, that trip sounds like it will be hard. The running on the beach and the Ipod may be your salvation.

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 9:01 AM, August 19th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So, I just pm'd ats because WOW that is a lot and then there's the whole "open forum" thing ...

I did want to know, ATS, how do you like sharing IC for MC and her IC? I think that would make me feel weird. Our IC's won't even do that!

Allgood --

Take all the drafts of your letter and burn them. They are vile. I already know this because the 50 handwritten pages of mine are too, LOL. Verbal diarrhea. Probably just as bad as what you'd send OW! Maybe worse, since that biatch didn't actually betray you...

But before you do, read them over a few times first. In there, you will eventually find the ONE THING that is most important for you to start with. And then talk about that.

Tryn -- you're mostly right about consequences -- except I disagree with the free pass. I think there has to be SOMETHING. I would suggest double MC and IC sessions for a little while -- just because, you're right, her thinking is messed up. (Yes, I know we're not made of $, but IC is cheaper than D ...)

I love Washington too. I'm a native. We're unicorns around here.


Miracle ...

there comes a point in time that is just beating a dead horse

My father used to call this "sadistic equine necrophilia" when I got a little older, I pointed out that has some additional connotations that make it especially gross

So, I'm going to admit I lurk on the Betrayed Men board. I find something very comforting about those guys. Anyway, that's not the point. The point is, wincing_at_light was posting about what he did and where he was HIMSELF when his wife finally *got* it and it was very helpful to me. I think it's on page 23 or 24.

Do you ever feel like you're alone in the world? Because that's how I feel. I felt like I was part of something -- something really special. Sure, it was just my dumb little family, but it was precious and dear to me. I threw everything that was me into it. I worked from home so I could be there when my kids got cuts and scrapes ... I stayed in a job making half of what I can for the good hours and flexibility ... anyway I felt like I was part of something precious, like WH and I were a team and that what mattered to me mattered to him too, and, oh god, now I'm crying, but anyway now I just feel alone. And I guess what I'm trying to figure out is am I always going to feel alone now, no matter what? I mean, I'll feel alone if I AM alone but at least then I really WOULD be alone, so that makes sense. More later. I have to think about this.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 9:37 AM, August 19th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I did want to know, ATS, how do you like sharing IC for MC and her IC? I think that would make me feel weird. Our IC's won't even do that!

m334455, I like the idea that we are all supposedly on the same page. I like that I trust the opinions of her IC. If this becomes adversarial, then clearly we would need a different arrangement.

WW just emailed and said I am welcome to come to the anniversary party with her. BIL and her Uncle will be their and she does not want to confront anybody (except me apparently). Her words "get through it as best as possible and suck it up".

I told her I am not going, DS14 has a school event during the trip. I absolutely do not want to spend a weekend biting my tongue around her BIL and Uncle. They all deserve each other.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 9:39 AM, August 19th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

On the topic of separate C's for IC/MC - our MC was also our individual IC and it worked great for us. I think they have to be very good in their profession and from everything ATS has said, it sounds like he has a good one. I never felt the need to find an IC other than our MC and my H felt the same way.
Bottom line, you will get a sense of whether or not this works for you as an individual and/or couple and go with your gut.
anyway I felt like I was part of something precious, like WH and I were a team and that what mattered to me mattered to him too, and, oh god, now I'm crying, but anyway now I just feel alone. And I guess what I'm trying to figure out is am I always going to feel alone now

M3 - You are part of something precious - it is your H who is not (at least at this time). My children are all adults and so I was in a different situation but they all surrounded me with love and support and made it very clear to my H that if he continued to betray "us" they would have nothing to do with him. He knew he was the one who would be shut out of our "precious" family. The loss was his. It is your H who will be the loser in the end. Your children will always love and respect you for the devotion you have given them. No matter how young they are, they are fully aware of the love and care you are giving them, even through this difficult period. Even the youngest of children sense this. You will never be alone - you have your precious family with you now and the bonds you are forming with them now will be with you always.
I think I know what you are saying though, that as the parent of young children you feel alone. Is there any adult who you can go to for the support you need? Have you told any family members or a close friend or are you carrying this burden alone??? I would strongly urge you to have at least one person IRL that you can lean on now. I was lucky that I had my sister and my mother and 2 very close cousins who helped me through my darkest days. I don't think I could have survived without their support.
What is keeping you from sharing this with someone you can trust? I hope you will rethink this because not having the support of someone you can trust IRL does make this process so much harder to endure.
((((((((M3)))

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 9:41 AM, August 19th (Thursday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 9:50 AM, August 19th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WW just emailed and said I am welcome to come to the anniversary party with her.

Ok, so I read this and thought - this is great, this is the right thing to do. Then I read:
"get through it as best as possible and suck it up".

and
You know one thought that has crossed my mind is that it seems that ever since she heard of this party for her parents she has been "going downhill" in her attitude toward you. Is the timing right on this???
If it is, I think there is so much inner turmoil that she is experiencing and unfortunately that you are the brunt of (afterall we are their safety nets) and I'm betting that once this event is over you just might see a return of the remorseful, committed-to-R spouse that was so evident prior to the invitation to her parents' party.
Any thoughts???


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 9:52 AM, August 19th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good for you AST.. visiting those people are outside your boundaries.. Period. They are nasty people.. it’s too bad the whole family doesn’t know the secret.

M3… My thinking is this.. ast can’t control what she is going to do… so all he can do is control himself. The lure of your mother and father approval is overwhelmingly powerful. As I get to know ast as he describes his W in his post… Ast’s W need affirmation in a huge way… That is likely her language of love. If he is not giving her support, affirmation, over and over.. he is not loving her… You really think an IC or MC will ID that in a few hourly paid sessions? How to fix a M? My IC seemed to always be looking at his watch. It will take self education too.. you get it here at SI… and books.. and Retrou..

Ast can…
- verbally beat her up
- act “cold as ice”
- go silent
- stop loving her

or he can…
- Continue tell her how he feels
- Continue to keep loving her..
- Continue to try all the forgiving things
- Continue to keep positive about R

Or He can,,
- stay in limbo
- go back and forth between love and not loving…(I happen to think this is not good for happiness)

And you know what? ast’s W can go off and have sex with other men right now too…She can start a new relationship or continues other men… If so.. I know enough about ast to know he will have the strength to take care of himself. But I just don’t see her doing that right now based on what ast is telling us… I see her working on herself. All he can do is try hard to fight his feelings of reject, hurt, low self worth, and all those feelings we know… They seem to fade with time.. or a least they have with me.

ast’s W may be a “runner”.. she might need a fresh start… I read that LTA almost always end a D because of the seriousness of all the mental pain… only time will tell… ast doesn’t seem like a runner to me… In fact, all of us here on the LTA board are not runners. We are fighters.. It does not mean our M’s won’t end… it means we gave our spouses a chance to change, a chance to be with us. So once we decide to do it.. At some point in our R, we need to risk and have the confidence in our decision... no probation.. just pardon. It does not mean we accept any future abuse.. it just means we gave our spouses a second chance with us…and if they decide to move on and have relationships with others.. then we move on too… we find our happiness.. I’m sharing what you can do to change things and reach some happiness… to let go a bit..


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 9:55 AM, August 19th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

http://www.beyondintractability.org/essay/trust_building/

http://www.beyondintractability.org/essay/distrust/

This is what I took a break for.

The question is: is there any mechanism left for me to trust my WH again? I think my earlier idea about leveling the playing field would work. i.e.
Option (1) We D
Option (2) A post-nup that closely mimics D, MC, IC for you, and infidelity -- defined in writing -- is a dealbreaker.

See?

Anyway, I had a bit of a breakthrough with WH yesterday. I forgot to pay a bill and usually he's such a jerk about it that when I told him I preemptively told him off and he was really shocked. Didn't realize I don't like to talk to him. Claims he didn't know he's mean. Ugh. But good. Ruined half my day but at least we were talking.

But then I read that stuff from W_A_L and it started me thinking of how far I have to go. I'm sucking at detaching. Got to work on that more.

The only, only, only thing a BS can do is to move on. Maybe your WS will catch up to you, maybe not, but you have to move on. I'm sucking at that. How is walking to the Metro with WH in the morning moving on? How is telling him my feelings moving on? Heck, he kissed me, REALLY kissed me, for the first time in YEARS this morning -- THREE times and I'm really disturbed. I loved it. I hate that. He knows my weakness. He keeps luring me back in with the physical stuff, which is ironic . . .

You know, I am too old to be all wrapped up in a man. I wish my great-grandmother was still alive. She'd set me straight. Ugh.

ETA --

Thanks FNF. Especially for reminding me that I am part of something special.

Sadly, it ocurred to me that with as many kids as we have, we could actually both have kids with us most of the time, just trading around which ones are where. Like instead of him having visitation one night a week he could have one kid each night M-H and then have them all every other weekend.

There are quite a few people I talk to IRL but they're all at a loss. Let's face it: LTA is WEIRD. Even my old IC rand out of stuff for me. My new IC seems very competent though. I guess that's where he's going with the wanting to meet WH thing.

The questions at this point, to me at least are: is he doing enough (no) does he know he's not doing enough (we think so) is he willing to do what it really takes (?) and has this reached a point where even if he IS willing to do what is really takes and DOES it, is it too late (?)

tryn -- respectfully (and really, utmost respectfully) I think everthing you told ATS to SAY about feelings and affirming, etc. is spot-on -- but I STILL think there needs to be a consequence. That's why I say more MC (and maybe IC) because that's I *feel* you're putting X ahead of me and so I *need* to spend some extra time with you talking about how that makes me *feel* and MC is the best place for us to do this.

Little sneaky. Yeah. Like last night when I asked the 3 year old if he could please come show his little brother how to play with the bath toys -- because The Pasha has declared he's never bathing again -- but it turns out it was much easier to show Sunshine how to play with those toys when he got IN the tub and it was much comfier to BE in the tub with his clothes off ...

[This message edited by m334455 at 10:14 AM, August 19th (Thursday)]


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 10:17 AM, August 19th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

396 posts in 17 days. We are a busy little bunch.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 10:19 AM, August 19th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

or he can…
- Continue tell her how he feels
- Continue to keep loving her..
- Continue to try all the forgiving things
- Continue to keep positive about R

This was the positive one, the one's I supposed to pick, right?

I can love her as in "acting in a loving way", the key word here is acting. For now, it is gone. Dissolved, evaporated, disapated.

If 10 months of therapy, reading, and heart-wrenching discussion are not enough for her to not do something she says that she does not want to do, how will she ever get to where she will not do the bad behaviors she does want to do?

This unilaterial decision of hers to go on this trip breaks promises we established in the early days after ddays. It breaks a very clear boundary I established three days ago. It will sit as a festering infection between us until the trip is completed. She will come back emotionally depleted, to me emotionally depleted, and then we hit our dday anniversary. Two months after that we are into the holiday season, always stress-free

I have been up since 4am and I am just losing it.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 10:25 AM, August 19th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

or he can…
- Continue tell her how he feels
- Continue to keep loving her..
- Continue to try all the forgiving things
- Continue to keep positive about R

Tryn - ATS has told his wife how he feels about this party and she is going anyway. Now I am of the camp that this would be a boundary that my S was crossing because there are 2 very toxic individuals who will be there and because his in-laws sound like people who are not "friends of the M" but instead are critical of ATS (from what I've read anyway) that even though the occasion is one of great importance, ATS and his wife are trying to R and that must, IMHO, be a PRIORITY over all else, even a parents' 60th wedding A.
Which brings me to the "continue to try all forgiving things" - she is continuing to act in hurtful ways. Now I know we are taught to "turn the other cheek" but I've never been good at that one especially when that someone has hurt me very, very deeply and continues to do hurtful things.
And finally, I think it would be very hard to continue to stay positive about R while a FWS continues to make choices that are hurtful and cause increased suspicion and doubt.
Tryn - I am so sorry to disagree so strongly here but I think ATS is really trying here to give his wife a chance to prove that him and their M comes first and I think she is so consumed in her own issues that she is putting his needs and the needs of their M, in second place.
I have always been a firm believer that in order for any relationship to be successful the ideal would be 50/50 commitment from both parties. I have at times been willing to do 60/40 but I have never had a relationship work for me long-term where it was a 70/30 or worse yet an 80/20 arrangement.
In addition, and this is what my H knew upfront and in his face very clearly after d-day, he was the one who betrayed me and I told him in no uncertain terms that I now expected the 60/40 shift to be on him and that if at times I needed 70/30 or 80/20, he had better step up and assume that responsibility while I worked on healing myself.
Sorry, Tryn, I guess you hit a nerve with me and I can't apologize enough for my strong response but I wanted ATS to know that I completely understand his frustration and not to feel guiltly if "loving feelings" for his wife are not possible at this particular time.

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 11:20 AM, August 19th (Thursday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 11:30 AM, August 19th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would write her a letter. Dear W, I pray you get what you need while visiting your mom and dad. God knows today, I can certainly appreciate a Celebration of such an accomplishment. (TELL HER HOW YOU FEEL ONLY…) I feel afraid because you will be close to BIL. I feel… (tell only HOW you feel..) NOT a single line about what you THINK she will feel by going…. End with.. I will be here waiting when you come home with all that I can give to love you….

No, I'm thinking more like the letter. With feelings. And pull the punches a bit. And then make her do some more MC! A lot more! And ask your IC about her progres or lack thereof.

The letter might be something like:

I hope your trip goes as well as can be expected. I appreciate your desire to be with your parents on this occasion. I feel you've crossed my boundary by going and that makes me feel X I feel like I'm working hard for R and you are not. I understand that you're an adult and make your own choices but I also need you to understand that making a choice that makes me feel X is damaging our R/M. I can't continue to allow you to violate my boundaries because it makes me feel X and allowing someone to make me feel X is damaging to me. This event appears to be an emotionally charged situation for you and that is why I am willing to discuss with you why your need to go is so great when you know it makes me feel X and that making me feel X is damaging to our R/M when you return by having X many special MC sessions and I will wait until those MC sessions are over to decide whether or not your willingness to chose this event despite knowing it will make me feel X and be damaging to our R/M should be a dealbreaker at this point or if it is something I can forgive you for and continue on with the hard work of R.

So, no, I'm not feeling as soft as tryn. He needs to enforce that boundary. But he can enforce it kindly, but firmly and the consequence can be something that might effect positive change rather than something that is punitive.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 12:02 PM, August 19th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Tribe for all of the support. I am calming down some. My boss cancelled our meeting, so I cancelled the rest of my work day and took leave.

I have really paid attention to what Tryn posts, and I have worked hard to implement what he suggests, but it does not work for me, at least now. I am not willing to force myself to the extent he is.

The fact is, when WW has really been in the game with me, it came easy. When she goes back to the person it is now, it does not. Frankly, when she is like this there is no being loving, we are completely detached.

So I take what I can from Tryn's posts, the same as I do from everyone else. I think we are ultimately on different paths, while still headed to the same places.

Another thing I know is not apparent is how very far I had come towards working on my issues and meeting more of her needs prior to dday and since. I did not find SI until 5 months past dday. I have been working on being a more loving H and healthier person since my IC in May 2007.

((Tribe)), I really appreciate the support today. These last days have sucked. I hope that in a couple weeks this will just have been another rough patch, but I fear this may be a defining moment.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

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