you are afraid, afraid to trust him, afraid to be hurt again.....afraid to trust yourself to know if he is being sincere,
Okay, forget the mudslides, I've had a couple of glasses of wine......trust...maybe that's it...or used...
I was the youngest of 4. Older brother of 8 years talked about girls. There were 2 kinds..ones you took to the beer parties and ones you took home. I swore I'd never be the one that was at the beer parties. The only thing on guys mind was sex....when they got what they wanted you were history.
Maybe I feel used. How do I get past this? After 25 years of marriage, I feel my H dumped me for another woman and now I've lost his respect.
After 25 years of marriage, I feel my H dumped me for another woman and now I've lost his respect.
After 15 years of M she dumped me for OM, and respect was lost, but it was mine for her. I have nothing to be ashamed of here, and neither do you.
Did your WS come to you and communicate in a way you understood what his unmet need was? That he was feeling like he needed to go outside the M to feel compplete? If not, then you did not loose his repsect. He had too little selfrespect to do the right thing.
Welcome newcomers, Can't believe and Anna Maria, sorry to see you here but happy you found S.I, Read from the Healing Library it is truly healing and will forever stay with me.
First I want to say I got in touch with how I could have been so decieved for so many years and Allgood mentioned it. What you said about your H loving you like a mother or sister. I absolutely hate to admit it, I do not know why, but I realized that is the way that my H loved me as well, for most of our marriage..familiarly. This must have felt like enough for me as I did not feel disconnected as many of you did. Our sex life did not suffer as is often the case either..somehow..in spite of his affairs..which were primarily emotional in nature. So, I really did not think we had any marital problems at all.
My realization is that I was satisfied with the familial love simply because I did not know any better. I had never seen a healthy marriage and did not know what a cherished wife looked or felt like!
Of course I do not know now either and frankly although he insists that he loves me more now, I do not see much difference in how he feels now as opposed to then. I am still well cared for and still he desires me but the need he had ..for the thrill of the chase...I do not know..what has happened to that? He insists it is gone.
As can;t believe has said, it is hard to understand how they simply turn it off. That is one of the strangest things about them.
Retro sounds wonderful but is only for people on the verge of divorce..you say? I think we may be past that stage but were there a few months ago..perhaps we would qualify? How does one contact them? I know we could use some more work to solidify the work we have done on our own. I feel I am doing all of this by the seat of my pants.
Self-deception- is literally a matter of deceiving oneself- and thus raises unique questions.
How can one deceive himself-unless he already knows-what it is that he is deceiving himself about?
I do know quite a few of my married female friends who do. In one case in particular, she often has an object of affection in her life, either a fireman or clerk in the neighborhood to fantasize about.
I hate to think that my H is always imagining that he is with other women when his is with me? I mean what is the point of being with a flesh and blood real person..why not just be alone?
Anyway, I did do that tho when I was single and had a crush or interest in someone...ummm it is fun and in my experience it motivated me to make a move toward that person.
I do believe that all men do it...at least that seems to be a commonly held belief.
I do however enjoy it when I know that a man or men are ogling me or find me attractive as I find it reassuring, so that is hypocritical of me I know.
We went to Retro 5 months after dday2. As Tryn said, it is amazing. We were not on the verge of divorce, but I felt we needed to repair our marriage before we could start marriage counseling trying to improve. We were broken and needed a fix. Basically, they teach you to communicate. It's a very hard, demanding weekend, but for us I think it was a lifesaver. I learned things about my H that I never knew. (My H doesn't know how to show feelings, he's a black/white, mind over matter). That weekend he opened up and it was amazing. Now, you wonder if it was so good, why am I still here wondering if we will make it. I do not want divorce and we are both really trying to make things good (they are better than they have been), but retro was a jumpstart for us. It allowed me to realize that I do love him, I'm just still pissed off and I need to learn and figure out how to be happy with him again.
[This message edited by cantbelieve at 9:23 AM, August 14th (Saturday)]
Do all of you have better success in stopping yourself from rehashing the sordid details of the A?
PaperRoses made me think this morning - about what was really going on during the A in my marriage. I wound up looking at photos during that period of time. Wound up getting pretty pissed off (apparently my favorite or at the very least most frequent emotion). While I was looking at pics my H took when he just took the "big" kids away (and I stayed home with our newborn) - I wondered how much contact he had with OW since their was no cell reception at the place where they stayed. So, unable to stop myself (ok - I didn't even try to stop myself), I checked the phone records - only to discover he left our kids sleeping - I must say another adult was there with his child - but he left them at 5am to go up to the mountain to call ow!
It just really, really pissed me off!
Like - I know the A is not a "real" relationship, but with a LTA, certainly the novelty of it wears off after a while & so he couldn't stand the thought of waiting til he got back to call her - he got out of bed & drove to call her? Pretty devoted guy.
Anyhoo -like I said - got pissed off - tried to control it by texting him that I would appreciate it if he could pay more attention to me when he is at work. He texted back "OK", which is not exactly what I was looking for, but I realize now he had now way of knowing how worked up I was. He did call a 1/2 hour later & I refused to pick up and quite frankly by that point - I was losin it rapidly.
So - what is the coping mechanism I'm forgetting? Just accept that it was horrific? Ok. But how do I shake the feeling that he loved her better or more intensely (in some ways at least)?
H's response was the standard "It's over, I only think of her when you bring it up & you are just as guilty of not calling/texting as me". Then he got REALLY REALLLY busy at work & couldn't call/text anymore.
(He should've seen the texts I wrote & DID have the strength not to send... lol.)
O - I really need some kind of epi-pen like anti-rage serum...
in one respect he is right, it is over, he can't undo it, i am sure as shit he would if he could...but for you i am sure it still feels like its just beginning....youre looking at it all, studying it and pulling it all apart...
bottom line, he fucked up...royally....he bahaved in a manner that was not who is to you then and now...he bahaved like a teenager...
i wrestled with this and still do, the fact that he loved her better...but you know what, i cannot change that, i cannot fix it...so i need to accept it as it is and move on...rehashing it again and again is not going to help me in any way shape or form...so i keep catching myself and changing my thoughts...and its hard, really hard, but its possible...and on the days i cannot change my thoughts i ususally take a xanax, maybe cry a bit, but never once stopping trying...until i succeed....
and this is where for you its different...you have a husband who is trying to comply with all you request...but when you request something that is unclear to him, he cannot fulfill that request....the next time, or even now if this trigger is still happening...tell him what you found and why you are triggering..give him the information which is the tools to help you....and tell him with the love and hurt you have and not the anger over it...which will allow him to help if he can...and then tell him what you "need" from him on this...he is not going to do know what you need without you spelling it out...he doesn't possess the tools yet....talk to him instead of yelling...and yes i know really really well just how hard it is...btdt way more times then i could have ever imagined...
[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 2:08 PM, August 14th (Saturday)]
most of us were not "dumped" or "left"....we were definitely cast aside though...but there is a difference in the mindset...one mindset is alot harder to get over, and there are quite a few bs's who have been dumped and left, and for those of you in reconcilliation this is not a mindset that will help in that endeavor.....
every ws definitely made a choice, and we were not the choice obviously when they chose to cheat....and for us on the lta end, this is most definitely more hurtful in that this choice was made again and again and again to the tune of years with an op....but when that bubble burst, and it is a bubble, the choice changed....and the choice became to reconcile...
now not to say that they don't deserve it but think about it....most if not all of our ws's could really leave for the op...most of our op's were available for the taking...but instead the ws chose the bs...and in choosing the bs has chosen to put him/herself through daily torture for infinite number of days, months and even years....yes for most of us we do torture them, and we do it because we are tortured by it....but still they choose to endure it all....they choose to, or most of them choose to comply with whatever the bs wants...some of us, not...but to those that do...think about it....here is this ws, complying with every or most requests, and putting themselves in the position of being our verbal punching bags, daily....not easy to live like that...
and for those ws's who aren't getting it daily, they are probably giving it to themselves for their own stupidity....but still they choose the hard road and they choose reconcilliation...not the easy road for any of us....
so rethink it when you say your ws "dumped" or "left" you....there are plenty of bs's who really were....
just my 2 cents worth...and in this economy i could say its not really much or i could say that every penny counts...
most if not all of our ws's could really leave for the op...most of our op's were available for the taking...but instead the ws chose the bs.
That's true, but part of me thinks he chose me because it was safe. His world didn't get turned upside down. If he had chosen her, then his kids would have been told, his family, his boss, he would have lost everything. So, stay with the BS and settle for a safe life, or stay and carry it underground (I don't think he is doing this), but I sometimes think he chose the "safe" life.
and believe i think his world did very much turn upside down....just not the same way ours did....our hearts were crushed, the ws is resonsible for that crush....not an easy thing to face and live with...if the ws is truly remorseful that is....
none of them went into these affairs ever believing that they would get caught, none of them set out to hurt us, none of them gave us a thought that mattered, none of them feels the same pain we do.....
for every thought process the ws had was a consequence we now suffer through....and still do for some of us...if not most of us......
i would think for those in reconcilliation the focus needs to be on the what is good and what is true, and to build upon that....taking each day one at a time, continuing to help each other through the pain....and everytime the focus turns to the hurt and pain, both the bs and the ws need to work it through together...helping each other to solidify the marriage once again, or even for the first time....
and yes this is SOOO much easier said then done....the triggers are going to happen...the pain is there, the anger is going to surface...learning to communicate and work through it all together needs to be the goal....
o.k. i will shut up now....
I feel the same. FWW didn't leave the M, but she did leave me. She stayed for the kids, so she would not have to divorce again, for the security. I was not a part of that equation beyond I was not as bad as her first H. She could tolerate me.
Now, I wonder how much of R is just weighing dealing with me vs the alternative. Yes she is doing introspective work in IC, but even that is not so much about being with me.
settle for a safe life
That may be a good summary, time will tell? I was not bad enough to leave; this is where we start building our new foundation.
[This message edited by atsenaotie at 2:05 AM, August 15th (Sunday)]
If, for example, someone brings up a topic I have no unresoved issues around, I might feel empathy but it would not arouse me. If her sitch arouses me, then I need to look at that as unfinished business in my life anyway.
That is my take on it but not everyone's, so I will take my leave if I am disrupting what is a calm and smooth running thread.
In the meantime, I wanted to say, I agree with I Can't', in that I am not so certain that my H did not return after discovery because all of his stuff was at our house! Certainly he is not the type to run off with some silly little twit! That was an "I" .
It helps me to examine and keep in mind these things because I feel that it is far too easy to become complascent in a marriage. I learned the hard way that to trust too much is not a very good idea. Now, my trust is limited as it should be.
It also helps me to know that other's feel as I do,,,which is of course what a support group is all about. I did not know that other's felt that perhaps their husband's came home because it was the path of least resistance... Easy?..No..you are correct...Miracle nothing about this is easy for anyone of course.
Yet, it is in some ways, for some peopleit is easier to come back to the home and the wife/husband/kids with whom they feel secure, in spite of the anger.. rather than the alternative.
One does not really know or understand the mind of the cheater.
I do know that my H would hate to feel that he failed as a husband and to face a divorce, He does not feel he failed..now..only if I divorce him. He also, as I have said, he loves me, even actually believes that he loved me when he was lying to my face every day and humiliating me, showing no respect for me as an equal person in his life, not even as much respect as he was showing her. He would feel very sad to lose me. I am worth the time and effort to keep.
Perhaps in his mind, I don't know, he does not think he is losing his other life? Maybe he thinks..in the back if his mind that in 5 years or 8 or 10 .. he can pick up where he left off? This is just something I do not know.
May the love, compassion and gentleness you show to others be returned to you - multiplied.
Lots of love and hugs, my dear Friend.
Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.
I will say, however, Miracle, that my H is definitely not doing everything he can - and I totally understand what you mean about things beingunclear to him or not having the tools to do what I want, etc.
I get that.
Not to re-hash the incident -but I did tell him what set me off and he responded pretty defensively & it spiraled from there. We had a number of social functions yesterday & I was busy with the kids - we really didn't talk all day. I explained to him this morning, however, that no matter how long ago it was, it's still very painful and a source of serious worry for me, and I was just looking for some reassurance and comfort. I also acknowledged the things that I did wrong. (And btw - I was very calm - there was no yelling or screaming.) He addressed 1 specific concern & basically told me he was sorry. It really wasn't enough - but he had to go to work - so I left it at that.
Truth be told - I'm still pissed.
And, I do not believe my H is beating himself up about this on a daily basis AT ALL. Otherwise, his feelings would be a little easier to access, in my opinion.
Anyhoo - gonna try to stay positive today & will check in later.
Allgood.. "H is definitely not doing everything he can"... nope he is not. Or if he would go with you to Retro.. he would want to change. Your H is a greedy selfish self absorbed man not willing to change who he isÖ I've wanted to beat up on your H. I think he and OW should be "fired", "terminated", and expelled for his job as a public servant in the police department. Doing things like what he has done open the department up to bribery. He is a proven liar in a job that is very important to the safety of others. We had a cop here in Indy just shot his revolver in a patrol car after a fight with his GF. This is what happens when you commit adultery. Most murders suicides are due to infidelity. IT should be communicated in advance to all cops. You cheat, your fired. If I were king of a day, he would be arrested for committing adultery because the importance in his role in our society. Allgood Iíve wondered in your case if you should not really shock you H. In your situation.. it might be the wrong thing to do.. but I feel like you should tell him, I need a change, I need you to change, you wonít try and be more intimate with me on a feelings level and I need that. Iím thinking about going and try and develop a relationship with another man, a kind emotional man, a man that want to really be with me, willing to change, It will help me be a better woman and change too. I find it hard to change with you because I do not feel you are doing enough given the serious of what you did. Something you do not understand is the visions I get of you having sex. I want you to relate to what I am going through but I donít want a divorce until I know the new man is what I truly want. You are going to have to make time to watch the kids more while I am developing this new relationship. Think he would be shocked? Heck, I'm mad at your h..
The infidelity in the police dept is off the charts - there are so many similarly situated people it's not even shocking. Everyone in his precinct already knows about the A at this point - and there was plenty of speculation about the 2 of them before I found out. There's nothing prohibited about what they did - this did not happen during work hours and they are the same rank (there are a few jokes there I'm sure...) so there's no impropriety in their eyes.
I understand your take on the sitch tho.
I can't say that my H is confident that we will be together for long. He's definitely not, but at the same time it doesn't seem to eat him up or motivate him to improve the relationship more than he is doing so already. He's not a worrier tho. Even as so the A - he really wasn't hiding certain aspects of it at all. I asked him didn't he ever worry that he would get caught & he said "no".
Does sound a bit pompous in black & white.
But, back to your question - My H has asked me how often I think about divorce & whether I would go straight for a divorce or if we would physically separate first - we then talked about me dating, etc. He is more confident than me that I could find someone right away, but thinks I'm scared to actually date again. (And, he's right, but that isn't guiding my decision to R.)
I'm pretty sure if I found someone else, my H would move on. And, quite frankly, no offense to the male LTA , members, but I think I would be more inclinded to just swear off men for quite awhile.
I don't pretend to know my H very well anymore, but my feeling is that he just takes his lumps. He knows he F'd up, he knows & maybe even expects me to leave (even on DDay he told me he didn't think R was going to work) and doesn't see any way out of it. (Now, it's that last part that gets me, because this is his own free will. There are things he could be doing, he's just too lazy, selfish etc to do so.)
Anyway - interesting idea, this shock therapy, but I'm not up for it.
If Tribe prefers, I will withdraw. I do not think to bring up issues that are thought provoking is a bad idea.
i am confused about this....did i miss something...
FWW didn't leave the M, but she did leave me
did she really leave you or did she completely disconnect....imo i think there is a difference in the mindset....leaving you means to me that she has and had already envisioned a life without you and took steps to make that happen...having an affair, unless its an exit affair, is not taking steps to leave..it is disconnecting...with you and also a disconnect with self ....
allgood: i also agree with tryn only to a point...he is not doing everything he can, you and i know that, hell everyone here knows that...but his perception is that he is....his perception is what needs to change...change his perception and you change the man....
and tryn cops have a totally different mindset...it comes with the job and it comes from foo.......and unfortunately we cannot impose our thoughts of what is right and wrong upon another...if the job is being done and being done correctly...no employer should tell another how to live their personal life....this is something that should have been instilled when they were children, the differences between right and wrong, moral and immoral.....then throw in a bit of peer pressure with improper rearing...there are countless reasons why affairs happen...the breakdown within the ws that leads them astray....to hold an employer responsible for others personal lives is not in itself moral and just...
of course if we lived in a perfect world where we could control these things, i would love to see each and every ws get zapped by some kind of zapper everytime they do the wrong thing, and the more morally wrong or hurtful the stronger the zap... ...i want to be able to push that button.. bwahahaha....
it gives new meaning to zapping the bugs out of your life...
eta: allgood i must have been typing when you posted...shock therapy...that is what i was missing.... ...i wonder if it were born out of a bug zapper..
[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 10:08 AM, August 15th (Sunday)]