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User Topic: Long Term Affair Part 19
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Default  Posted: 5:43 PM, August 2nd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

m3....missed seeing the baby! maybe later?

Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA

Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
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Member # 21980
Default  Posted: 6:13 PM, August 2nd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for welcoming me. I have read here off and on for 3 years and have posted very little. It helps so much to know I'm not alone. I have 4 kids of my own and somehow managed to invite 7 others over to sleep tonight so tomorrow (if I survive) I will post and ask advice on how I am going to survive this. Thanks!!

Posts: 70 | Registered: Dec 2008
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Default  Posted: 8:36 PM, August 2nd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WOW, I leave you guys alone for a few hours and it takes days to catch up!!

Ats: I love reading your posts. You are sharing your and your FWW's progress and PROCESS and it's wonderful. Thank you!!!
You mentioned in your post that to OM you were a non-factor. I agree, I feel the same way, but to both WH and OW, I was a non-factor, NOTHING, not even thought of, and that is another thing that hurts.

Allgood: Your post about the OW coming to you for help and wanting a discount!! What audacity. It really shows that there is absolutely no moral compass. I also understand when your WH has nothing negative to say about OW. I only hear good things about her.."she's young and pretty....she's a good mother...she was there just for me....." etc. It just hurts. It's like they are still in the fog.

Forgive: thank you so much for asking about me. I know what you mean about fear. I felt like that when I was dating WH and wanted to be with him all the time and he made a comment that I was being with him to make sure he wasn't seeing anyone else. Why didn't I see all the red flags even then??? I know, I didn't want to see what was right in front of my face!!

Let it be me: I liked the news that you shared with us. It really proves what kind of a person OW was!

NJgal: I reread your story and I really admire your strength to kick WH out!!!I'm happy things are working out for you.

Sad4Mom: I do the same thing and have all the kids over here all the time. It's like I'm a glutton for punishment. But it is a distraction!!

Miracle: I'm sorry to hear DD failed her road test! She'll do better the next time. I wanted to post this message from a sign I once read:" When I was 17, I thought my father was an idiot. When I was 21, I was amazed at how much he learned in 4 years!"

M3: I'm glad that you had a fairly decent time on your vacation, too bad for WH, but it sounds like it's all about him!!
Sunshine broke his nose!! OMG!! I hope he is all right. But, WH bundling your 3 year old child like a mummy and yelling at him right up in his face? And he PUSHED you??? This type of behavior is unacceptable. I'm sorry to be so blunt.
When he is sober, you must tell him as calmly as possible that that kind of behavior will NOT be tolerated. He must understand that although he has a right to his feelings, even anger, he doesn't have a right to act on it in that manner. Is WH usually like this when he is drinking? That is another problem, too.
Please forgive me if I am overstepping the line, but I am so upset for you.

I hope you are doing ok, nofun and UKgirl.
We miss you Dip and Tryn.

I will try to post later about my rough time if I can.


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
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Default  Posted: 10:18 PM, August 2nd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

cantbelieve: welcome back, and don't worry about reading everything...we all know each other (or some of us) and have trouble keeping up...there are times like today for instance and the posts are flying...come on in, stay a while if you desire, take what you need and give back when you are ready if you are....we have no expectation levels here...its kind of like go at your own pace....but welcome back to our corner of si...

she occupies my mind and I don't know why

there could be several reasons here...all of them normal and it could even be all of them from fear that he cared for her more, so what does she have that i do not to its easier to focus on her and send her all of it then it is to focus it all on the ws...focussing on him hurts too a few dozen more....when you think about her what exactly are you focussing on?

let it be: are you planning on sharing what you have learned?

mom4: thats alot of kids, you sound like my kind of mom...having an open house like that is keeps you in the loop...and starting when they are young is def the best way...i hope you get some sleep!!

honest its good to see you posting...and whenever youre ready to unload, we will be here...((honest))

ukgirl you are in our thoughts...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
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Default  Posted: 10:31 PM, August 2nd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I visited LTA part 18 one last time before it disappears. That part started just after FWW gave me the full details. Just after Trynhard gave me his talk. On average, by the time this part 19 finishes I will pass my antiversary on 10/5. It was a tense night tonight with DS18 screwing up and costing us a $50 fee at his college. I was on edge (did not throw anything even though I really, really wanted to). FWW invited me back into her, and asked if I wanted a shoulder rub I said no. Asked if I minded if she rubbed my shoulders because she wanted to feel connected. I let her enjoy herself.

I feel tonight for all of you who are struggling alone. It really takes two to R. Sometimes I carried the load; often FWW picked it up and dragged us forward. Even with her help it has been hard, and painful. Tonight she assured me my doubts and lacks of trust do not upset her. She says it motivates her to prove to me that she loves me, and it lets her know that I care.

I have jury duty tomorrow, yippee.

FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
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Default  Posted: 10:42 PM, August 2nd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

2 things ats

first part 18 will not disappear for quite a long time....there are 4 pages to the i can realte could go way back a couple of years actually and really get to know all who posted...that is if you have lots and lots of time...then have fun trying to keep it all straight...

second: wow its funny and ironic what you posted about going through this journey alone...i just posted over in ws to a ws who wanted to know about telling her husband about her triggers, i will post what i wrote there here:

i would think that for each bs it is different and depends on several factors:
how far along since d-day,

a raw bs may not be able to handle more then there own feelings

if the ws shows genuine remorse and not just lip service

if the bs feels that the ws is just talk then the ws sharing triggers may come off as more self serving behavior showing more selfishness

this should also be a personal choice of the bs

the bs should be asked how they feel about hearing about the ws triggers

what the trigger is

if the trigger involves something that the ws misses in the op, then hell no...if the trigger involves something to do with foo or a bad memory from childhood..then hell yes

with exceptions to triggers about ops or similar hurtful triggers i would thing that the ws in all circumstance needs to learn how to broach it as well...

the trigger i would think could be identified to the bs with calmness and complete clarity...and very direct...then its up to the bs if the bs wants to further reach out to the ws...this shows the bs that the ws is willing to put themselves out there, to trust the bs with their fears...but the bs still has to be ready to hear it...they both the ws and bs need to feel safe enough to do so...

so i say ask him how he really feels, then use your best judgement depending on where you are in your respective healing, then be direct and gentle with what you share and then let the bs determine what happens next...

and as a sidenote: as much as it is really helpful to have our so's help us, any of us, bs and ws alike on our healing journey...its important to realize that it is not only not necessary but probably beneficial to do some of it our own...learning how to depend on oneself to cope and deal with issues as opposed to another...your so cannot always be there for every trigger, and you really should learn how to do this for self-sooth so to learn to depend on healthy outlets and develop healthy coping skills....

and again the healing journey is where both bs and ws alike are helping each other along the way, that is the preferred way for "most" of the journey...some of the journey though needs to be by trust yourself, needing no one to heal some of what needs healing...and part of that self healing journey is learning to love yourself, and when you love yourself you learn different healthy ways to cope on your meditation, prayer, even dance...connecting with oneself and in doing so learning how to come down from the trigger...

oh my now my post is so damned long...i hope i don't scare away the lta newbies..

i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
Paper Roses
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Default  Posted: 12:24 AM, August 3rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh my..I cannot possibly keep up and comment on all of you tonight!

I do want to say to All Good that I am sorry that your FWH still seems to be in fog and I assume that is the reason you still suffer so. Do know that she has nothing on you my dear..nothing.

m3..I think? You are being abused as are your children... what he did to your 3 year old is wrong.

Not judging just telling you in case you are not seeing what is happening in front of you.

That said, do know..and I do not think that you do...that the big house and fancy job and cars..will provide you for you and your children if you leave him and I PROMISE you! I PROMISE will be a lot happier than you can imagine without him!

You really have no idea what peace you will experience when you no longer need to walk on eggshells or worry about the children upsetting him or whether or not he is cheating! You will be happier if you are away from him.

I do not know what you will decide and it is your decision and you may change your mind a hundred times...I have...but ..when someone is drinking and angry and not working with is just too damned hard.

I missed the picture of your baby but perhaps another time, she sounds lovely.

You take care of yourself, it is hard after having a baby. You are doing just great! I think you are a great mom and deserve to be here is some appreciation from me

Welcome to all the newcomers and I will comment on all the oldies next time.

I am ok, just really busy and well, ok.

Oh, I paint, nothing erotic, so far! I actually painted my H and his lover naked in a pool once! It is not erotic, it is disgusting! it captured the ugliness and they are laughing in sort of a sick is quite good and was very cathartic.

I paint to express my feelings. Thanks for asking ats.

He-45-FWh- sober 4 years

Self-deception- is literally a matter of deceiving oneself- and thus raises unique questions.
How can one deceive himself-unless he already knows-what it is that he is deceiving himself about?

Posts: 623 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: Los Angeles
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Default  Posted: 4:25 AM, August 3rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

M33 Gotta love that baby!! I sneaked a look yesterday. Yes, Iím sneaking around. But Iíve got to say your Hís behaviour is just unbelievable. How can you live with that? Heís acting like heís 13, not a grown man with responsibilities. How DARE he talk about you like that? In fact, how DARE he even THINK like that? What kind of sewer does he have for a brain? There is no way any decent person would act like that and as for yelling in the childís face, that is abuse and I for one would like to set a Rottweiler to snarl and snap in HIS face and see how he likes it. >>>>shaking head<<<<
Sorry hon. Hope it gets better. (((((m33)))))

Hi to sad4mum Ė how come so many of us have all these children??? Iíve got four too. I sometimes wonder if my WHís unreasonable and skewed complaints about the kids draining me emotionally so there was nothing left for him was his justification to run off into the affair. Whinging about how he was undervalued and unappreciated. Makes me mad to think about it Ė how about helping me out?? Sheesh. What a child.

my priest said I would NEVER get over it, only learn to live with it, like death. So, yes, you're normal.

True. I liken it to being in a motorway pile up and getting part of me amputated to get me out. Yes, they can do all the clever things with prosthetics, but you know that part of you isnít real and you know that the amputated limb still hurts like fuck. But you strap it on every day and live with it. It becomes your new normal.

This book focuses on your life using the sexual relationship as a point of contact.

We always had this. We have been a very physical couple, constantly touching, holding hands, holding looks, stroking in sexual and non-sexual ways, snuggling up at night and me giving him massages all the time. It didnít prevent him from seeking more from MOW. And when he did, our physical and emotional intimacy waned and died. He tried to force it on me. I said to him after d-day that we lost that because his guilty hands had no touch. He couldnít reach me Ė she was in the way. And now Iím the one who is pulling away. It must be two or three years since I last gave him a massage. It angers me to think I was trying to take away his stress while he was fucking her. He was getting his rocks off with her and then coming home for me to be all tender and loving and send him off to sleep with a massage! Canít do it. Just canít. He transferred the intimacy he had with me to her. That makes me sick. Actually, HE was the sick one, wasnít he?

eta: Get this - we don't have chairs in our lounge, only sofas. Only ever had sofas. We always sit together. I had hoped we would be like the folks who lived on the hill.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 4:28 AM, August 3rd (Tuesday)]

D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
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Default  Posted: 4:30 AM, August 3rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Again, from the last thread:
I continue to hate her because I remain threatened by her

And FNFís brilliant reply:
You know one of the things I said to my H on a number of occasions was there is no way this OW really loved you. If she did she would have told you from the getgo to go back to your wife and work on your M. She would have not wanted him to suffer the shame and disgrace of being found out. She would not have wanted to risk having his relationship with his children lost forever. She would not have wanted him to suffer the aftermath of the A. She would have thought what this would have done to him in the long run and out of love and concern for his future, immediately sent him back to the family he was committed to care for.
I believe this with all my heart. I also believe these OW/OM aren't thinking at all of the consequence of the A on these men/women they claim to love. They are thinking only of their own neediness, loneliness, pathetic self-esteem and trying to take what never will be theirs.
Threatened by the OW/OM - nope. To me, if our S's did leave us for the OW/OM they would have quickly come to regret their choice once they realized who it was these people actually were "at their core." (This was my sister's favorite expression.)

Reminded me of a post waaay back I copy and pasted because it was sooooo good:
If I loved someone, I would NEVER want to help them do something they regretted. If I loved someone, I wouldn't want to have them remember me with shame. If I loved someone, I would never want to be the reason their children needed counseling and medication. If I loved someone, I would not destroy his marriage and tell myself 'it was doomed anyways'. If I loved someone, I would never fool myself into thinking that if there is no Discovery Day, no one gets 'hurt'. If I loved someone, I would never put them in a position that forces them to lie about any of our activities together. If I loved someone, I would not want to be a part of anything that would later make them contemplate suicide to escape the guilt of what we had done. If I loved someone, I would not jeopardize their career. If I loved someone, I would not do things with them that are so bad, no one else can know about it. If I loved someone, I would not assist them into financial ruin. If I loved someone, I would not be so selfish that I fooled myself into thinking any of the above things are worth the risk for my own selfish needs.

If I loved myself, I would not enter a relationship with someone who is already committed (I don't share - it is degrading). If I loved myself, I wouldn't 'date' someone I couldn't call at home. If I loved myself, I wouldn't do things I had to lie about. If I loved myself, I wouldn't fool myself into thinking that a man that had to sneak around to see me really cared about me. If I loved myself, I wouldn't convince myself that a few weekly phone calls well after midnight and a few erotic emails during the day followed by sex in a 'pay by the hour' motel is a 'relationship'. If I loved myself, I wouldn't see someone who wasn't willing to take me out in public. If I loved myself, I wouldn't have sex with someone who can't sleep with me in his own bed. If I loved myself, I wouldn't behave in a way that would make me die of shame if my family knew. If I loved myself, I would end an unhappy relationship before beginning another one. If I loved myself, I wouldn't treat others in a way I wouldn't want to be treated. If I loved myself, I would know that anything that costs me my integrity just isn't worth it. If I loved myself, I would know that someone who helps to destroy my integrity does not love me.

Affairs may feel like love sometimes, but if they even come close to love - it isn't any kind of 'healthy love'. I don't believe affairs involve love at all. What affairs do is create an infatuation with 'the feeling' of being desired (lust) and the desperate need to escape something (addiction). While in the addiction, it still 'feels good'. That doesn't mean it is love. It means the addiction is still there (the need to escape). It only feels like love, because in the moment - you don't love yourself enough to 'see reality'.

Okay. Taking a back seat.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 4:32 AM, August 3rd (Tuesday)]

D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
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Default  Posted: 5:46 AM, August 3rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

M3: It appears that I missed something with your H's treatment of your kids. I'm going to go back & re-read. I hope everyone is ok.

Miracle: You too - I missed the part about your daughter failing her road test. I loved Honest's joke about parents not knowing anything. That is funny!

UKGirl: Thank you for your post. It does help.

Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
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Default  Posted: 8:22 AM, August 3rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ukgirl: talk about a brilliant post...that excerpt is spot on and so worth reading....for those of us who already love ourselves, it is a reminder of who we are as people....

m3: i finished that book you told us about...too good to leave, too bad to now i have a question for you...a question i will answer as well:

how many guidelines told you that he was too bad to stay?

for pfm i lost count at how many....maybe 2 of them for too good to leave....and the 2 that he "passed"....wouldn't matter because she said something to the effect of that if you havent' found the answer you seek yet, and then proceeded with more guidelines...i already had my answers....

that book takes out the emotion from making the decision...there are times that i feel we need to follow our heads and not our hearts...just as there are times we need to follow our hearts and not our heads...the key is finding a balance between them...

roses: yes when we get chatty it can be such a task to catch up....and somewhat time consuming..

allgood: yes she failed her test...and of course when i asked pfm about it, yet another slight war ensued....this man is the epitomy of stupid and more and more i am starting to see the old.....just traces of who he was, but traces nonetheless....i may have to vent it out in general....because the more i think about it the angrier i get...and i no longer withhold it, i need to get it out, and usually once i get it out i feel better...never 100%, but at least i am not harboring the toxic feelings...which in turn will end up compromising my health...of that much i have learned...purging is also good for the soul....


eta: i got distracted on my way to general and no longer have the need to vent...of course that could change later...but i feel at peace right now...a good distraction and a really good cup of tea...only if it all could be that easy!!

[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 9:41 AM, August 3rd (Tuesday)]

i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
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Default  Posted: 9:52 AM, August 3rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Paper roses, miracle, et al. I know you guys are right.

I was going to leave him right before Dday. I had been so unable to get through to him and he was getting worse and worse. I finally asked him to go to rehab. Then, he said he didn't have a problem and could stop on his own and he made it just fine -- until OW and her BH came over with their kids for dinner and THEN the lightbulb FINALLY went on. I realized he had a problem more than a drinking problem.

So, all this nastiness stopped after Dday cold until about May.

But the truth is, he's never gone NC with the unconfirmed OW. I keep finding things with her. And yesterday, after our huge fight last week about him still being in contact with her, I see that he is STILL friends with her on facebook. Jeesh.

BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
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Default  Posted: 10:09 AM, August 3rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm sorry M3.

Fun: I forgot when your H's md appt was - how is everything going?

Ats: I'm jealous.

As for me - I really think that there is just too much baggage for me to really enjoy my H. It's more of a hopeful tolerance, I guess. I just texted him that I want to talk tonight. He responds "About what?" I told him about "us". He replied "I cant wait."

Great attitude! And - he should know by now not to press my G'damn buttons, cuz now I'm all fired up!

Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
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Default  Posted: 10:30 AM, August 3rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

allgood: gently 2 x 4 here, but you had to know he would respond like that....his mindset is hell bent on how this is never going to work that you are going to throw his ass out.....he doesn't deal with you pushiing his buttons well at all either you know....he probably thinks he did something the child who gets lectured....when the parent tells him we need to have a chit chat, he doesn't want the lecture...he doesn't want to be in trouble...and me thinks that mr allgood feels like he is always in trouble so to speak.....

and apparantly he can be just as sarcastic as you!!!! unless he is being totally serious, and really is looking forward to it because he thinks its going to be a good convo...

kwim...i understand the anger all too well....but putting his gears in motion is not going to help either one of you.....

patience i understand is not one of your strong suits...but patience you must will serve you well, i matter how things work out!!!

m3: not having nc in definitive place is a dealbreaker...there is no way around that one...only 2 people belong in the marriage....there is no room for her or anyone else....and i am so so sorry hon....i really am..

i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
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Default  Posted: 10:38 AM, August 3rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UKgirl: That was a fantastic post. It really hits hard. But maybe that's what the draw is, that the OP is willing to do anything for them? It is not a real relationship? Just a way to fill the void in WS?
I don't remember where I read a BS saying that her WH loved her, came to her for like a mother to make him feel better and then like a child went out and fooled around. She was like "mother earth" that he satellited around to feel secure so he could go out in the world and do his thing.
I'm sure this is not for every WS, but I'll bet it is for many, probably my WH too. Just suck us dry and leave nothing for us.

Miracle: I'm glad you are venting. I could feel that it was building up for a long time!
That was a good post about triggers. There must be a balance between trying to deal with them ourselves and having WS help us. BUT, I believe that in the long run, we do have to fix it ourselves, but sharing our feelings with WS is a good thing to let them know what is happening. They cannot fix it for us, but they can be a support for us. I do know what you mean that not every single little trigger must be discussed and shared. Some of those we just need to recognize it for what it is and try to go beyond it.
Healing is so hard when someone keeps opening up the wounds and then blames you for bleeding. <sigh>

ETA: I was hesitant about posting this and wasn't sure if I should post it here or in general.
DS 30 and 34 (from first marriage with a WH) have always told me they were afraid to get married. Wanted to be sure it was right.
DS 34 got engaged to a wonderful girl about 3 years ago. He put off the wedding, because he was getting scared about getting married. Around DDay last year, he started dating another girl. She knew NOTHING about the fiancee. I yelled at DS that he had to break it off with the fiancee or the gf not have both.
Anyway, DS gave me the impression that he was breaking it off with the fiancee. I talked with him many times that he had to have one or the other. He saw how much pain I was going through with WH and I did end up telling him everything.
Fast forward a year. Last week the gf found out about the fiancee. It seems that DS was spending a few days with fiancee and a few days with gf. The gf came over here and was crying saying everything I've been feeling about WH (and they've only been seeing each other 1 1/2 years)
Now everything is coming out. He keeps apologizing to me. He is very remorseful and says he feels a weight is off his shoulders. He keeps telling me that he feels he doesn't deserve either of them. (both gf and fiancee knew NOTHING about the other and BOTH girls are "nice" girls, KWIM? Would both have made great wives and mothers) I told him he MUST go to counselling.

I can't tell you how upset I feel. He saw how much pain I was in. I feel somehow, how could I have raised a son that would do this? What is wrong with me?? I feel he betrayed me too, and I know intellectually, that is wrong, but I feel it none the less.

Yesterday, the fiancee's mother calls me and starts saying how upset she is. I started to say I do too, and I'm sorry and then she laced into me that I call myself a Christian and I let the OW in my house? and that what comes around goes around and that someday it will happen to DS or someone close to him or part of his family. How her daughter is such an innocent person and he took advantage of that. How bad he was, etc etc.
I couldn't get a word in edgewise, and she hung up.
God, I felt guilty and ashamed and angry. The mother doesn't know my story. It hurt like hell. I felt angry at her, although I understood her pain. I felt angry that why didn't anyone yell like that to either of my WH's! To have someone stick up for me like that!! Just a whirlwind of emotions.

I just feel ashamed and angry, and so scared for my DS. He has gone through a lot of shit in his life, but it doesn't excuse this behavior. I know I cannot control him. I feel so upset about the three of them, especially the fiancee, whom I've come to love. She really is the sweetest, nicest person I've ever met. I feel bad about the gf, she had no idea and she is a good person. I'm angry at my son, but what can I do? He is my son and I love him dearly.
He keeps apologizing to me, and he is answering the girls' questions.
In this case, I told him he must make a decision, one or the other, or neither. I showed him this site. I didn't tell him to throw one or the other under the bus immediately, (they were both betrayed) but he MUST decide. Probably the best is neither. He needs to fix himself and those poor girls need to heal. and they weren't married.

Thank you all for reading this long and complicated vent.

Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
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Default  Posted: 10:42 AM, August 3rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood and M3 I think I was writing when you guys posted.

Allgood, I agree with Miracle. He is like a trucelent (sp?) child and thinks he has to put up with a lecture.

M3: I am so very sorry to hear that. Hang in there. Tell WH you will NOT tolerate his yelling and abuse any more.
Take your time and get yourself together. {{{{m3}}}}

Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
old dipstick
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Default  Posted: 12:30 PM, August 3rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Damn. I missed the baby picture. A day late again. I am glad that some of you here got to see Baby Paddy.

m3. Your H's behavior is dangerous. Screaming and yelling at a three year old? He needs help, or a ass kicking.

Allgood. Hopeful tolerance. Well put. That sums up a lot in just two words.

miracle. Yes I did notice the compliment you received back in part 18. When I read that I knew you would want to say something. Thanks for thinking of me when the baby pic was on here. Maybe next time I will get to see her.

Gotta go, so.......

Hugs to the tribe.

Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A

Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
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Default  Posted: 12:34 PM, August 3rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow HOnest! Honestly, how much more can you take? This is craziness! I'm sorry you had to be on the receiving end of all that anger even though you did nothing wrong. (I'm sure the mother, deep down, feels bad about yelling at you like that too - it just might take a while for her to calm down before she sees it.)
I hope your son listens to you and finds himself.
And, of course, let me be the 1st of what is sure to be many posters to remind you that THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT!!!!

And, thank you to you & Miracle - yes you are both right - he knows it's going to be negative & doesn't want to talk. After I saw your posts, I texted him telling him it wasnt going to be a lecture, but that I wanted us both to be happier & I do not want to guess what that is for him anymore. I told him that I also feel closer to him when we talk.

And, Miracle - Hell no he wasnt serious that he "couldn't wait" to talk. We both have similar personalities as far as the sarcasm & humor go.

I feel like I am holding too much resentment & anger & I can't really be happy with him right now. I feel like our relationship is just superficial - it is for me at least. I'm not happy in this relationship. I'm happy he is still here - but he just comes with too much baggage and unknowns for me to be really happy. This is what I would like to talk to him about - I need a real solution to this problem - but I know I can't confront him like that with something of this magnitude. I'll have to think of another way to make some progress.

Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
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Default  Posted: 1:01 PM, August 3rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sunshine didn't break his nose. Sunshine broke WH's nose.

I'm sad to say I yelled at our 3 year old too. But not like THAT. I still suck.

Honest -- have you thought about being honest here? If your DS and his fiancee reconcile you'll be dealing with her mother at least occasionally.

I would consider, in your shoes, a heartfelt apology to both the mother and the fiancee. You can choose whether or not you want to reveal your own situation, but you might want to if you think it will make them see how it led you to realize why you were wrong.

I don't know about you guys, but I'll rat out anyone I know is cheating every time forever after this. I just will.

BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
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Default  Posted: 1:30 PM, August 3rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


honest: as allgood has said...THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT...she is a smart lady, and sometimes i think i am a smart BELIEVE US!!!

please do not take what that woman said personally, she is hurting for her you are so not happy about your son, she feels her dd pain, you feel your ds's mistake....that woman has no clue what you have been through, and right now i am sure she wouldn't care either...she only sees her dd's pain...and something tells me that she might have suffered infidelity on some level to be so so angry to call you.....

and as for your ds, i hope for his own sake he grows up and realized what he's done...and thank god they didn't get married and have kids...which means i hope they can both move on a little bit easier...

and one other note: you have nothing to be ashamed of, he is a grown man, and you cannot control his actions and what he chooses to do with his life and his free will....its called free will for a reason...its one of the reasons i don't believe a foo can be blamed for a ws becomming a ws....there are many of us who have shitty childhoods...what we do with our experiences is personal, what we do with our free will about our experiences is personal



part 1:

I feel like I am holding too much resentment & anger & I can't really be happy with him right now. I feel like our relationship is just superficial - it is for me at least. I'm not happy in this relationship. I'm happy he is still here - but he just comes with too much baggage and unknowns for me to be really happy

of course you are angry, of course right now you resent this man...that is normal, very normal considering what you have gone through...and no matter how much he does right those feelings are not going to dissapate over night, or over a few weeks or even over a few months...

you are just starting this process...and its a long fucking process...i will not kid you on this one...its long and its hard...AND ITS DOABLE...but you need to be in that mindset that it is doable, that it is possible and that you will do everything within your power to make it so, and that includes making your new boundaries quite clear and holding him to them....

it means that you will have lots more anger to process

it means you will have lots more hurt to process, when the anger does dissipate, hurt takes it place...

it means that you need to do the brunt of the work involved together...

and if its possible to work through it all, the reward of keeping your family together and staying with this man whom you happen to could you go wrong....yes yes yes i know he can go wrong...but right now he is not doing that....right now he is trying, he hasn't got the tools yet to do it all though and this is where you having some patience needs to be

2nd part:

This is what I would like to talk to him about - I need a real solution to this problem - but I know I can't confront him like that with something of this magnitude. I'll have to think of another way to make some progress.

yes you cannot confront him with all of what is in your head right now, he cannot hear it, he will not process it, he will only hear that he is not doing enough, he is not doing it right, he is not ____, he is not____, he is not_____...fill in the blanks...and no way no how will this produce what you really want from him..

bottom line: is he plugged in?

i think he is, everytime you ask him to do or not to do something he complies without giving you any ogida about it

bottom line: is he trying to the best of his abilities:

i think he is, he does not yet possess the tools needed to do more right now

bottom line: does he love you?

HELL YES, he wouldn't put himself into what he feels is a humiliating position time and time again if he didn't love you

bottom line: were you both too young to get married?

yes, but now is the opportunity to learn how to grow together...the 2 of you have been together forever, he never got to what most people in general really need to do before they settle experience life and to grow into do this as part of a couple is not takes so many turns and when you are teens the world looks quite differently then it does in your 20'a and 30's...and then it changes again in your 40
s and 50's...but by the time you reach those later ages you are settled into the human being that you are still experiencing life but your core in generally in place...

point of all this is that when you sit down and talk to him about everything you need...keep in mind that there is only so much he can do until he learns HOW

now he needs to be in ic acitively, as do you and you both need to be mc to learn how to cummunicate affectively....

o.k. done for now!!!

i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
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