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User Topic: Npd Thread Part 8
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 5:38 PM, May 2nd (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Frank,
The fact that YOU are the one who is desperately trying to clean up the mess that SHE made speaks volumes.

We can't offer you a diagnosis, but we can share our personal experiences. We have found that these personality types are so very similar.

NPD's are notorious for saying one thing and doing another. (saying she wants to save the marriage, but doing nothing to make it happen.) Another common characteristic is that NPD's rarely, mostly never take responsibility for their actions and always blame others. They are pathological liars. They will quote authority figures like judges and doctors and claim having personal conversations that never happened. i.e. the conversation she claims to have had with the psychiatrist about you having NPD most likely didn't happen.

As I said earlier, most NPD's act out during stressful times. And the acting out is very common. The acting out can be a wild variety of things from sexual to drinking and drugs, passive aggressive type behaviors and even more violent behaviors like stalking and physical violence.

NPD's are control freaks. Life for an NPD is all about controlling the people in their lives. Most of the time this is done through a variety of threats...either the threat of acting out or losing their temper or whatever. If you are the typical NPD victim, you are probably conditioned to give in to these "threats" My NPD was a screamer and a fit thrower. I would do almost ANYTHING to avoid his temper tantrums. I got to the point where I just wanted him to SHUT-UP. Now looking back, I am shocked at some of the things I went along with or gave in to just to have peace in my life.

Has anyone successfuly R with a NPD? Or P/A? Or Both?

Successfully is the key word here. I'm sure it can be done, but will be at your expense. You can reconcile with an NPD, but you will have to apologize to HER for her affair because I'm sure you forced her into the arms of the OM(s) and also were a terrible husband and father. You will also have to go forward in your life putting her and her needs FIRST and never consider your own again.

In my opinion, this is no way to live.

Right now you are reeling from the pain and shock of realization from your situation. It is shocking when they shed the mask and act so completely so callous and hateful.

In my opinion, the best thing you can do for yourself is to go complete NC and follow through with the divorce. Get yourself a good IC and go. If your IC suggest taking anti depressants, take them. They will help you get through some of the more difficult times....and they will come. When you go NC, she will most likely flip out even more because of more loss of control.

Work through the difficult times. but also try to remember that you cannot make sense out of nonsense. The crazy making of the NPD is so over the top, nothing compares.

Come here, keep posting and as someone else said, lean on us. You will find that your friends in real life simply don't get it or don't understand.


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7926 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
Frank2010
♂ Member
Member # 29438
Default  Posted: 6:33 PM, May 2nd (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OK, everything you have said rings true for the most part. The one thing that is different is that when I asked her (many times) if she was done (ready to end the marriage) she was always the one that said yes....every time. It was me that came whimpering back and wanted to try to work it out because I could see a happier, better, marriage if we worked through our issues. I would always be the one trying to find a way around the road blocks. Then I would ask her if she was willing to try this or that. She would reluctantly say yes or "I guess". Then she would never give 100%. It always had to be what little she was willing to give. She is the one who wants NC and this time I am giving it to her. I had asked her to sign uncontested divorce petition several times and she would alway say yes but then would come up with delays or decide she wanted things added to the petition. First she wanted Spousal Support or she wouldn't sign. I told her I would never agree to that since I was working my ass off and she was meeting men while I worked,etc. Told her I would go to jail before I paid her a dime. Then the next time she said yes but I had to corner her verbally and by the time we went to get the signature notarized they were closed. She said she would do it in the morning. When morning came she said she wouldn't sign unless I added that I would absorb the IRS lien. I refused and told her to get an attorney because the judge will say she benefited from the IRS Money TRee and she would be equally responsible. (Got that from an attorney consult). So this last time she said yes but wanted me to absorb half the vet bill (where she used to work). When she bailed out on me she stuck me with 26 dogs. So I agreed and she signed. So divorce is going to go through.

The dogs are part of the NPD issue as well.

When the attending psychiatrist told me she was narcissistic, I asked what that was. He said she doesn't care about anyone or anything but herself. I agreed she has been selfish but he was mistaked. She lived for her dogs and would die before she would give one up. He said that was true until they no longer served a purpose for her. He was right. She walked off with out a second glance.

Does this still sound like NPD since she is the one that wants NC or is she just saying that she wants NC so I will be the one groveling if there is to be any contact??? Which I will not grovel anymore. Is this going to make her do the crazy bit?

The family is split right down the middle on support. The two girls support Mom. The two boys support Dad. Her parents pay her bills and are doing a little trash talking about me too. While we were together I could always tell I was never good enough for their daughter and I did not let them bully me.(More so the last 6 or 7 years) so I always knew they resented me. But now they told her if she even talks to me about R, they will withhold the financial support.

I will say this also, throughout the whole M all 4 of the kids used to tell me that I needed to leave her. My SIL just told me that he always felt sorry for me because she treated me like shit. They all have always talked about how selfish she is. Now the camp is split. So she has her supporters. If she gets "crazy", wouldn't that blow her cover to the daughters? She could be a serial killer and her parents would still make her out to be a princess, so she will always have support, at least until they die. And they are very old. Early and mid 80s.

What kind of crazy stuff should I be looking for?


Me 56 BS
Her 59 WS NPD(She is Empty)
D-day#1 05-01-10
Dday#2 06-04-10 previous ONS 9-24-09 AFF hookups

Status: S & D'ing


Posts: 1195 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: North Texas
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 10:47 PM, May 2nd (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A true NPD will insist on the divorce being on THEIR terms. Typically they will fight and fight to the bitter end. They will spend $50,000 to get $5. If she has signed and there is no room for her to contest anything, count your blessings and consider yourself lucky.

Who know why she is requesting NC? It could be that she really wants NC or it could be a game to get you to grovel. Who knows. Does it really matter? You are going NC to save yourself, not to get her back, right? And if she does go crazy, let her go crazy. You continue NC. She is NOT your problem any longer.

NPD's typically do one of two things. They either become obsessed with their partner and harass and stalk them relentlessly. Or they delete them without as much as a thought. Based on what you said about her supposed beloved dogs, I suspect this is how she will be with you. She will likely delete you without as much as a thought. Both are very painful but trust me, you can do without the stalking and harassment.

As far as her family goes, blood is thicker than water. She has probably been a problem for her family most of her life. At one time you were probably somewhat of a relief for her family because you took some of the pressure and burden off them. But now she is back in their lap with her hand out. Plus you can be sure that she is bad-mouthing you. Let it go and take the high road.

As far as your children go. As hard as it may be to do never, never, ever speak ill of their mother. No matter what. She will not return the favor but the damage she does will not be to you, it will be to herself and to her relationship she has with her children. I know right now it may not feel like that, but in the end you will see that I am right about this.

As far as what crazy stuff to look for....I guess my advice would be not to borrow trouble. Don't anticipate anything and like the old saying goes hope for the best, but expect the worst. Take care of yourself and work on your own healing.


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7926 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
Frank2010
♂ Member
Member # 29438
Default  Posted: 12:03 AM, May 3rd (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you, Thank You. I think she will delete me without a thought...She says she feels nothing and I looked in her eyes and could tell she was telling the truth. I walked out of her apartment and have not seen or spoken with her since. I plan to keep it that way. Wish me strength. I just really needed to understand and believe it is NPD P/A, so I could give myself the strength. We are going to have to see eachother at grandkids sporting events and our son is getting married June 11th. How should I handle that? Just be cordial or avoid all together? I do not want to ruin my son's special day, so I want to act normal, but not sure what normal would be. What about other events? Kill her with kindness and indifference or avoid at all costs?

Somebody is going to have to walk me through this. I feel like, when left to my own devices, I screw everything up. If you guys could coach me it would be appreciated.

I am not worried about weakening, I am past that. Time to get back to being a man. Just not sure what is healthy as I have no model to go by. If it was just ordinary D, I would be amicable. But I do not want to empower her by being too "friendly" (as best I can), and I don't want to be an ass unnecessarily either. But I can be if that is what is required. Just don't know how to act.


Me 56 BS
Her 59 WS NPD(She is Empty)
D-day#1 05-01-10
Dday#2 06-04-10 previous ONS 9-24-09 AFF hookups

Status: S & D'ing


Posts: 1195 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: North Texas
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 11:38 AM, May 3rd (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would avoid her if at all possible, but I wouldn't go out of my way either. KWIM? Say hello, don't roll your eyes or get huffy if she doesn't reply. If she sits by you, don't get up and stomp off to another seat. In other words, don't act like an ass. And remember (ALWAYS REMEMBER) that your children and your grand children will be watching you.

We are going to have to see eachother at grandkids sporting events and our son is getting married June 11th. How should I handle that? Just be cordial or avoid all together? I do not want to ruin my son's special day, so I want to act normal, but not sure what normal would be. What about other events? Kill her with kindness and indifference or avoid at all costs?

Act NORMAL and treat her as if she is the neighbor down the street you see on occasion. Be POLITE.

If she acts like a jerk, that's on her. The most important thing is that you DO NOT react to her being a jerk.

It will take practice, but you can do it.


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7926 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
Frank2010
♂ Member
Member # 29438
Default  Posted: 12:04 PM, May 3rd (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was kinda hopin you would suggest that. I really don't want to spend the rest of my life hiding and avoiding her. I think I am strong enough now, to behave appropriately. I just don't think I can hurt anymore. I feel sad but not hurt. I hope it stays that way or gets better. I really really am tired of the hurting. I have no expectations of her now, so should not be disappointed and hurt anymore. She may surprise me and come up with another form of torture but I think that would just piss me off and not really hurt.

I am over her.

Thanks for the sage advice that only someone who has lived this hell can give.


Me 56 BS
Her 59 WS NPD(She is Empty)
D-day#1 05-01-10
Dday#2 06-04-10 previous ONS 9-24-09 AFF hookups

Status: S & D'ing


Posts: 1195 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: North Texas
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 8:20 PM, May 3rd (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Frank))) you're getting excellent advice from some of the finest ppl here, and you are so welcome to it. These folks helped me immeasurably!
(((TRIBE))) We got yer back man.
I often point out that the number of knowledgeable counselors with real, direct experience with NPD is necessarily limited because the NPD is unwilling...unable to admit that they have a problem.
It's you, and me, and everyone else doncha know!
In fact, most of what is known about them, in the counseling world, comes from the lips of their victims.
(Here, in this thread, on this forum, I prefer to think of 'them' as survivors)
- the 180 is valuable, because by getting into yourself and your healing, you'll know 'how to act'. Seeing that your self has been subsumed and buried for so long managing the drama the NPD creates, the 180's like a "welcome to yourself" present.
You get to a point where you just know, and you become the authority.

Teacher, in latin is 'docere', doctor. We heal ourselves ...recognizing that the blank space is their dissociative fugue, their discard of dogs and us is par for their course, and we know now. We'll deal.
Hang in there tough!


Posts: 6003 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
toughgirl8
♀ Member
Member # 29812
Default  Posted: 9:47 AM, May 4th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"You get to a point where you just know, and you become the authority. "

Very true. Being away from my H is like being able to breathe again. Esp around my fam and friends. I'm accepted, respected, and loved for who I am. My M has been like a prison, controlling me, not overtly, but in such a quiet, unseen, manipulative way, it's obscene.

The 180 was like starting to wake up from a bad dream. I like being able to be the authority for me without worrying about what he'll say or the fight we'll get into.


Me-37
WH-41
M-12 yrs
D Day-3/2010
4 kiddoes
Some may say I have a short temper, I say I have a swift and assertive reaction to bull sh't. ;)

Posts: 327 | Registered: Oct 2010
Frank2010
♂ Member
Member # 29438
Default  Posted: 10:43 PM, May 4th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the support. I am a little concerned that I may have picked up some narcissistic tendencies and maybe some P/A tendencies too. I don't know. Since NPD do not know that they are NPD....is it possible that I am or have become NPD as a coping mechanism. I feel like throughout the M I became more selfish too and I just got to the point that I was looking out for me. Outside the M I am very generous of myself.....I think.....

Just thinking out loud but her accusing me of being NPD and P/A has me wondering if I am but just don't see it.....I can see some narcissistic behavior in myself....but if I was NPD then I would not be able to see that.....right????


Me 56 BS
Her 59 WS NPD(She is Empty)
D-day#1 05-01-10
Dday#2 06-04-10 previous ONS 9-24-09 AFF hookups

Status: S & D'ing


Posts: 1195 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: North Texas
woundedby2
♀ Member
Member # 18522
Default  Posted: 11:01 PM, May 4th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Being away from my H is like being able to breathe again...My M has been like a prison, controlling me, not overtly, but in such a quiet, unseen, manipulative way, it's obscene.

Yes. This. Oppressive. Like a prison...

I wanted to share a self portrait I took last week for my photography class:

Hugs to all my friends here who are trying to escape their own prison.


Me: BS
2 kids: DD15 and DS18
Him: The Assclown NPD
OW: "friend" of 15 years
Divorced! Feb. 2010

Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 7625 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: SoCal
woundedby2
♀ Member
Member # 18522
Default  Posted: 11:25 PM, May 4th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am a little concerned that I may have picked up some narcissistic tendencies and maybe some P/A tendencies too

Sorry, Frank. I missed this.

I think it's normal for victims of the NPDs to feel that they are crazy, they are the ones with the problem, or they are the ones who are selfish. You are definitely not NPD.


Me: BS
2 kids: DD15 and DS18
Him: The Assclown NPD
OW: "friend" of 15 years
Divorced! Feb. 2010

Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 7625 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: SoCal
Frank2010
♂ Member
Member # 29438
Default  Posted: 11:49 PM, May 4th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanx Wounded.....when i can afford it I am going to get a psych. evaluation just to be sure.....my luck I will come up negative on NPD but find out I have some other sociopathic disorder.

Nice Pic....great subject matter


Me 56 BS
Her 59 WS NPD(She is Empty)
D-day#1 05-01-10
Dday#2 06-04-10 previous ONS 9-24-09 AFF hookups

Status: S & D'ing


Posts: 1195 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: North Texas
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 12:50 PM, May 5th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wounded,
That is an AWESOME picture!! I LOVE it! And isn't it the truth? After I got past the initial shock and pain, I almost wanted to send the OM a "thank-you" card.

Frank,
You do not have NPD. The fact that you have the introspective to ask or wonder is the answer. A true NPD would never say, "I wonder if it's me? Maybe I should get some help."
The NPD would be standing there pointing their finger saying, "YOU, YOU, YOU, YOU!!!!"

I think we all felt like this in the beginning. I think what you are experiencing and feeling is completely normal.


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7926 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
Frank2010
♂ Member
Member # 29438
Default  Posted: 12:07 AM, May 6th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanx SadToo, I still want to do the psych evaluation just for me. So I know for sure. There has been enough doubt and second guessing for me this past year to last a lifetime. I don't even trust myself anymore. My favorit saying is "Nobody can lie to me like I can lie to me." I made that up in 1975 when I caught my fiance in bed with another guy. Within an hour I had convinced myself that I didn't see what I saw. Took me eight months to face the truth. I lied to myself. She didn't have to lie to me. So I never have been able to trust anyone....including myself. I did not start 99% trusting STBXWW till about 10 years ago.....that's what I get for trusting again. I promise that will never happen again. 90%....Maybe. I will always have one eye open....even for myself


Me 56 BS
Her 59 WS NPD(She is Empty)
D-day#1 05-01-10
Dday#2 06-04-10 previous ONS 9-24-09 AFF hookups

Status: S & D'ing


Posts: 1195 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: North Texas
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 6:35 PM, May 6th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hey Frank! I've learned to turn stuff around. Instead of living with one eye open, which loses me sleep - I've translated that to 'trust your gut'. With the help of these fine ppl, I sleep very well at night, thank you!
If you're afraid you're NPD, you'd be the first NPD on the planet to look forward to a psych eval.
Welcome to seeing your name in the history books brother! Congratulations!

Anyone else notice the movement in w2's pic? The out-of-focus? The reason that photo is so good to me is that the talk-to-the-hand is so focused,
but the eyes to the sky and the moving arm beckon to a new. Moving new. She even got leaves for healing in there. Shirley, you didn't exactly plan that did you? (I skeered if u did!)

Hang on to your peace alone.


Posts: 6003 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
rainagain
♀ Member
Member # 14917
Default  Posted: 7:42 PM, May 6th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I love the picture!

Frank, we have to learn how to manage the NPD partner/x and that feels like manipulation which feels like lies which is what they do. If you read around on the internet about people who have to or want to live with these people, you'll see info on how to manage or manipulate back or re-manipulate or whatever. It's not a good feeling and that to me is a trap or cage itself.

Being free of it all is the best feeling and you'll feel like wounded2's picture. (But you won't be totally free if you share children together, although it's possible to preserve some boundaries.)


Now, faith is being sure of what you hope for and certain of what you cannot see. Heb 11:1
I done been through the pain and the sorrow the struggle is nothing but love. Maino
Me: Divorced BS 49
DS22, DD19, DS17

Posts: 1277 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Massachusetts
phoenix_vs
♀ Member
Member # 29193
Default  Posted: 8:06 PM, May 6th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NPD's are control freaks. Life for an NPD is all about controlling the people in their lives. Most of the time this is done through a variety of threats...either the threat of acting out or losing their temper or whatever. If you are the typical NPD victim, you are probably conditioned to give in to these "threats" My NPD was a screamer and a fit thrower. I would do almost ANYTHING to avoid his temper tantrums. I got to the point where I just wanted him to SHUT-UP. Now looking back, I am shocked at some of the things I went along with or gave in to just to have peace in my life.

An accurate description of my life for years in a previous relationship.

NPD's typically do one of two things. They either become obsessed with their partner and harass and stalk them relentlessly. Or they delete them without as much as a thought.

Hope you are deleted. I am eleven years out of hell and I still check my tires, and look over my shoulder. And with good reason. The anger over losing control has grown with time.

Frank, remember, often the children stick up for the dysfunctional parent because they are afraid of them and also fear losing their love. Just hold steady and love them, even though it hurts.

All the best to you. My WBF's ex is NPD. Thank goodness she lives in the state where it's legal to be what she is.


I'm not sad that you lied to me. I'm sad that I can never believe you again.

Well, I'm sad that you lied to me, too.


Posts: 371 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Great Falls Montana
Frank2010
♂ Member
Member # 29438
Default  Posted: 2:58 AM, May 7th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NPD's are control freaks. Life for an NPD is all about controlling the people in their lives. Most of the time this is done through a variety of threats...either the threat of acting out or losing their temper or whatever. If you are the typical NPD victim, you are probably conditioned to give in to these "threats" My NPD was a screamer and a fit thrower. I would do almost ANYTHING to avoid his temper tantrums. I got to the point where I just wanted him to SHUT-UP. Now looking back, I am shocked at some of the things I went along with or gave in to just to have peace in my life.

This is what scares me....I know I have done these things. Threats to leave, threats to have A, lose my temper, but I never tried to control her. She says I did. I did take charge of our household and spending. AS far as her little wants and desires, I usually just gave in and did or bought what she wanted if we could afford it. It times were tight it was up to me to control the spending.....she couldn't. But am I just projecting onto her.

The fact that I worry that I am but also feel like i am not.....isn't tht a symptom in itself?

NPD's typically do one of two things. They either become obsessed with their partner and harass and stalk them relentlessly. Or they delete them without as much as a thought.

I have been thinking about this too. AS I have tried to save the M, I have to admit that I always checked up on her....almost to the point of stalking. Drive by her apartment to see if her car was there. Check the paring lot to see if any OM cars there. See if her lights were on or off. Call her just to see where she was. If she was at home I could always tell on the phone from background noise. I was almost obssessed!!!!

I don't know anymore. Maybe I am....Maybe I am not. I plan to find out. Until then I am just going to go on faith that I am not.....I just want to know for sure and without a doubt....one way or the other.


Me 56 BS
Her 59 WS NPD(She is Empty)
D-day#1 05-01-10
Dday#2 06-04-10 previous ONS 9-24-09 AFF hookups

Status: S & D'ing


Posts: 1195 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: North Texas
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 10:23 AM, May 7th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Frank: A lot of those obsessing behaviors can be attributed to the fall out of being a BS.

It will be a good idea for you to see an IC to help you through this truama it is trauma for everyone.


Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jan 2010
Frank2010
♂ Member
Member # 29438
Default  Posted: 1:17 AM, May 8th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

htaf, no insurance, no income, no IC....someday....till then....SI and you guys are it. I am just on a journey back to me but I need to know who me is. A lot of self discecting in my future. I may be the first person in history to surgically remove my own brain and heart and try to figure out what makes them tic.


Me 56 BS
Her 59 WS NPD(She is Empty)
D-day#1 05-01-10
Dday#2 06-04-10 previous ONS 9-24-09 AFF hookups

Status: S & D'ing


Posts: 1195 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: North Texas
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