Seriously, if I never hear the word, "Really? Really, caregiver?" again in the patronizing "you have to crazy to think such a thing, and even crazier to say it out loud" it will be too soon. And hate this, my nine year old said it last week, "Really, mommy? Really?" Ugh.
I am NOT crazy... I don't think? At least not all the time, not yet.
I was reading here and one of the earliest "creep factors" for me in our marriage was that when my H would fight with me and even then it was manipulative and hurtful and without empathy, I would get very upset, often to the point of vomiting. At this point my H would come into the bathroom and hug me, forcing my face, snot and tears into his shoulder to "comfort" me. No words, no apology. And, here is where it always made my skin crawl, he would have a raging hard on. I am broken, sobbing, covered in tears, snot, a broken mess smelling of puke and he is AROUSED? I asked him about it because it bothered me so deeply. How could he at a time like this. His answer: I can't help it. Any time I am near you, I am turned on. Sounds good, flattering even right? It never sat well with me. Now I think it should have made me RUN way back when.
I fantasize about another country, a secret identity. I even wished to witness a terrible crime so I could be put in witness protection. I want to walk away, hell sprint in any direction! I am willing to do it too, even with the kids. Anyone know of a particularly healing location with a low cost of living?
I have full custody. I don't know whether he would pursue a relationship with them or not. They are a major source of pride for him. And he can use them to hurt me, so probably. But I would run anyway. He travels so a location change doesn't really impact him, and gives me a fresh start. This is a relatively new fantasy/thought for me. I don't know if it is healthy or not.
So my heart breaks for all of you that have to continue contact because of the children, and they do use them to maintain control and continue the abuse.
In some cases, it takes awhile, but NPD's 'typically' move on to other sources of supply eventually, and in time, it's appalling how very little they stay in contact with their children - but anything you can reasonably do to limit contact, and minimize their effect on your children is good.
I have not seen any situation in my entire time on these threads where contact with the NPD is good.
If NC is the best, then when the children display NPD-learned behaviors, you can purposefully not respond. A sort of modified NC with the NPD growing inside them.
So, when "really, mommy?" happens, you don't respond. Act as if you didn't hear, or it wasn't said...
worth a try?
No doubt that dealing with the special skewing stretch left behind is a gargantuan task, and my heart breaks so often for your struggles!
I carry around a link to the older stories - the oldest I could find here. I know it's alot of reading, but the wisdom and insight is immense. May it help us all on our paths!
My boys were horribly affected by their NDP father. He still has a great deal of control over them. The best advice I can give is limit the time your kids spend with him. The popular divorce trend is now for parents to "co-parent" and judges lean toward generous visitaton for the non-custodial parent. We proved in court that time with NPD was not safe, or in the best interest of the child. He has minimal time with the youngest, but the oldest live with him and has begun to act like him. Heart breaking. I had to limit the time the brothers are together which caused a lot of anger, but was the right choice.
Be strong. The kids are trophies for him, not people. They will be used like chess pieces - forever.
Learn all you can about this behavior and teach yourself new ways of responding -- and not responding.
The kids are trophies for him, not people. They will be used like chess pieces - forever.
This is it exactly! From the minute they were born he couldn't wait, literally couldn't wait for them to be "old enough." This meant all the gifts he gave were not age appropriate. They got bikes too early, baseball gloves, karate lessons, and all of it was geared at how Dad felt about it. The kids' needs obviously didn't figure into it at all.
*sigh* all of this makes me tired. I am HIGHLY concerned at the signs of entitlement in the 9 year old. I have always thought it was a certain level of selfishness that comes with childhood. Are there books on this, raising a child with NPD tendencies? I am not sure that he is. He certainly has empathy. I think. Ah, now I am all a mess in my head.
I don't have any issues with limiting time with Stretch. He works out of town. He is a full blown SA and I have full physical and legal custody with determinative decision making rights. And I believe with an expensive fight I cannot afford right now, I could have court supervised visitation required if he doesn't get treatment for the sex addiction and continues with his current behaviors.
Would now be the time to admit I am non confrontational by nature and hate that my life has become a battle field? Let's just add to the mix that my mother has also proven herself to be toxic and self centered and I have found it necessary to eliminate contact with her because I don't have the energy to take hurt from her or the energy to protect the kids from her bitterness. Thankfully there is full blown support here and I have a few steadfast fabulous girlfriends in real life.
Have a look at this for you 9YO:
It's not too late for the kids.
You are not crazy. You are a smart, capable woman and you will work your way through this.
Actually lots of child development and child psychology classes and 8 years teaching adolescents and working in a group home with troubled adolescents and leading small groups for troubled children and COA, before deciding to have children helped me to make some really fortunate decisions along the way with my own.
Perspective is what I need. They are troubled. They are acting out in very normal ways. I am seeing it because I am observant and concerned. And because they trust me enough to give me their fear and let me see the anger. Deep breath. Just breathe is advice you might think you wouldn't need repeated... I do.
I also don't want to fall into my own form of justification by labeling H. But understanding him and what he does and the possible "why" helps me to adjust. And I am a learner and a teacher by nature. It is why this kind of thing works for me.
I am rambling now, so I will stop with another thank you for the responses.
eta to add: And I will definitely look for the book. Thanks for the recommendation.
[This message edited by caregiver9000 at 4:56 PM, August 15th (Sunday)]
WOW!! This had a profound affect on me.
I used to think WH's actions were because he really cared for them, and in his crazy way, perhaps he does to an extent.
They haven't seen WH in 3 months because he is overseas "because of business" and is busy with OW and OC's over there. But, they miss him, as I miss the persona he portrayed so well for 22 years.
I saw the "real" WH is his interaction with other people, but it was never with me. Now, it is.
I think this is what is so hard for me. I really, really believed in the persona he portrayed. I would see glimpses of the real monster inside, but always attributed it to stress, anger, etc.
I am still so confused as to who the real person is.
Perhaps, too, that I don't want to admit that I was so blind to believe the good part was really him. Maybe, I don't WANT to or am able to see the reality.
WH has hurt me too much. That I MUST face. I really think I am co-dependent and an abuse victim (not physical, but mentally and emotionally)
I really think I am co-dependent and an abuse victim (not physical, but mentally and emotionally)
Yes. If you were with one of these NPD disordered-types, then yes, I'm sure you are. The realization of what you've endured and tolerated will wash over you in waves.
We are here to help and listen. Throw it all out there. Probably more than one of us has experienced the same or similar. sigh.
[This message edited by woundedby2 at 12:46 AM, August 17th (Tuesday)]
Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson
HOW did you divorce them IF you were financially dependent on them? Did you have to bide time while you went back to school/got training, etc? HOW did you DO IT?I've been separated for over 1 year...but home school my special needs kid & have been a SAHM for 24 years...
I'm feeling sooooo hopeless... Thank you for this forum...there are MANY of us in this situation...glad for the experience/support.
I know in my state long term marriages get different treatment during divorce. I was awarded spousal support as well as child support. It totals up to quite a bit and that is what allowed me to get out.
Donít get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well.†
We don't have the $ for a divorce lawyer either! I'm wondering if i should just bide my time while separated/in limbo, be civil, & go back to school part time while he's still putting some money in the bank (work is slow).
No easy answer...
[This message edited by ScribblingMum at 11:36 PM, August 17th (Tuesday)]
I am opting right now to being civil and going back to school. It's taking its toll on my emotionally, though. I don't know if there is any easy way out of this.
It's not that I have trust issues, it's that you shouldn't trust some people!
i am finding it very necessary for myself...to do this...i think i will go crazy having stupid conversations with him...(which is always explaining myself and he questioning.blaming)
i think even IC will get annoyed..like this guys is an idiot...u will have better conversation with a dog..than him :P but anyway...i am just thinking at one point even IC will be like...its an everyday issue...just deal with it...
In my opinion IC, anti-depressant meds and anti-anxiety meds saved my life.
When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
OC born 2001 (I didn't know)
Remarried 2008 (Happy!)
i am gonna look into it...
Cogal: I'm so sorry to hear your news. It is too much to deal with! At least you will feel secure in your decision that you D NPDH.
I understand your concern for your children.
See the evidence that this BH will send. He is extremely emotional himself now. He says that his wife "kidnapped" the kids, but who knows the real story.
You might want to contact your lawyer and discuss this issue and see if NPD H can have supervised visits or something.