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User Topic: Npd Thread Part 8
caregiver9000
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Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 7:54 AM, November 16th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So many things resonate here! Sex as a performance, love the term "goal oriented." If it ever felt my needs were important it was only as an outlet to feed his ego- I pleased you so well ergo I am so wonderful. But it was never "connected" and the performance left me cold. This eventually led to his declaration that there was something deeply wrong with me sexually and I was abnormal, frigid, incapable of enjoying sex.

I also have been reflecting back, way back to the early days 17 years ago. I was not interested. I did not fall for Stretch. He pursued me RELENTLESSLY. I was of an age to be married. Wanted kids and the timing for marriage and then family was right. And he pursued me RELENTLESSLY. that was flattering. And I was living at home with mom and dad who were arguing and bringing me into it. So moving out and getting married was appealing.

Early on there were many things that were disturbing, but they were so disturbing, so "OUT THERE" that I didn't take them all that seriously. Because really- no one really thinks like that right? I mean, stuff like certain groups of people were not worthy of air to breathe. If certain types of people walked in front of his car he would be within his right to run over them, no remorse. Jokes that weren't funny. Very redneck, and I thought "unenlightened." Not really serious, because that is CRAZY. I should have listened. Because when he "changed" I thought he had "grown up" and I actually believed I had been a good influence on him. I was proud to have brought him some compassion and some patience. Because the redneck angry right wing nutjob who as a white male was automatically some how more deserving than everyone else? He disappeared. Completely gone. So I thought.

I think I represented respectability to him. And I was of the mindset to be the "perfect wife." By that I mean, I was willing to follow the lead of my husband. I wanted to stay home and raise children. I was a teacher which is a perfectly acceptable job..."FOR A GIRL." I was his physical type. I engaged enough to feed his need for drama. I would cry if he hurt my feelings and I would graciously accept his apology. It was a familiar cycle. But after one year of marriage I was ready to walk without counseling. We went to counseling 2X, just two visits and he stopped all the things that were bothering me. Just stopped. I thought counseling was magic. And that we were such an enlightened couple willing to work at staying married and we were going to be fine. I can't believe how naive I was! I am looking back and thinking it was there for me to see. I saw what I wanted to see, partly because that's what I wanted to see, but also because I think he was vested in portraying a believable version of what I wanted.

I am having the hardest time with the number of years that he kept up a believable act. I can't imagine acting a part for over 15 years. There really weren't that many slips either. I find myself thinking that he had to have been finding other sources of "supply" after we had kids. It was important to him to be the perfect family. And he left me alone for the most part to be the perfect mother. He called me that all the time. The perfect wife and mother.

Just rambling. Understanding it is important to me and understanding him is sooooooooo hard to come by.

But here is where I am most comfortable and here is where I feel able to say and write what I think. So thanks. Thanks for letting me spill it and process it and for sharing your own thoughts and experiences. It is very helpful.

cg


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5308 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
anotherstatistic
♀ Member
Member # 26184
Default  Posted: 10:49 AM, November 16th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I need help. In at work and don't have enough time right now to read through.

I have looked into this but not too indepthly. I kept putting it out of my head not wanting to believe he could have such a disorder and also because he doesn't seem to fit some of the symptoms/characteristics I've seen.

Something is terribly off though and now that my cloudiness to the reality of it all has cleared some, I feel like I need to look into some of the more serious implications of his behavior for they really could be. I need to have a better understanding since regardless of the outcome, he will always be in my life due to our children.

Can someone please send me to the best sites or threads for someone in my position (needing to find out if he has NPD or something similar)?

I have a hard time describing his behavior so if anyone would like to help me sort it out by asking questions, I would appreciate it and answer them as best I can.

Thank you all so much!


Me-BS 36 Him-WS 41 (just plain wrong)
hisD-17, myS-13, ourD-3, ourD-born 3/17/10
D-day- 7/29/09

Posts: 397 | Registered: Nov 2009
anotherstatistic
♀ Member
Member # 26184
Default  Posted: 12:09 PM, November 16th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok. I went to site I found randomly here and took the quizzes. He has some characteristics but is not N. I looked further and found the PA thread! HITS THE NAIL ON THE HEAD!

I'm going to read here and there in the PA thread. Thank GOD for you guys and this place.


Me-BS 36 Him-WS 41 (just plain wrong)
hisD-17, myS-13, ourD-3, ourD-born 3/17/10
D-day- 7/29/09

Posts: 397 | Registered: Nov 2009
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 1:13 PM, November 16th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What is PA?


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7927 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
anotherstatistic
♀ Member
Member # 26184
Default  Posted: 1:24 PM, November 16th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry, passive-aggressive.


Me-BS 36 Him-WS 41 (just plain wrong)
hisD-17, myS-13, ourD-3, ourD-born 3/17/10
D-day- 7/29/09

Posts: 397 | Registered: Nov 2009
anotherstatistic
♀ Member
Member # 26184
Default  Posted: 1:28 PM, November 16th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry, passive-aggressive.


Me-BS 36 Him-WS 41 (just plain wrong)
hisD-17, myS-13, ourD-3, ourD-born 3/17/10
D-day- 7/29/09

Posts: 397 | Registered: Nov 2009
veritas
♀ Member
Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 1:31 PM, November 16th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm assuming that means PA. A lot of NPD's look like PA and vice versa, and some are both, because PA's have that self-image issue, too.

caregiver: The statement about him "acting a part" really resonated with me. That was my stumbling block a few years ago. It was only then that I realized that the reason why I saw it as acting was because I got to see the nasty NPD side once he got comfortable, but seeing as how he could rage like a 3-year-old then turn into honeypie-sweetie-darling, it wasn't really acting to him. It was more like he was just taking a stroll through the funhouse. Whatever distortion he wanted to display is whatever mirror he stood in front of. The rage seems so alien to us, which is why we tend to think of it as an out of control monster, but in truth, the out of control rage and irrationality served a purpose. It kept us second-guessing ourselves and too scared to rock the boat. I found that out one night when I let my rage out. He was still living in the house, pretending like I was being irrational and this would just blow over when I found an e-mail from The Troll, talking about how crazy I was. I must have screamed at him for hours, until I got exhausted. The last time I had that kind of confrontation with him, I ended up with bruises and a broken nose. This time, he said Not. A. Word. Why? Because I had already filed for divorce due to a recent physical confrontation with him, and he was trying to convince me that he had changed. He must have left the house 2 or 3 times. That's whan I realized that the rage was a definite weapon, probably the most real thing about him, but he could control it when he wanted to. He fully believed that it was justified, but he was willing to not act on it if he thought it could get him what he wanted. When people talk about the emptiness of the NPD, that's what they're talking about. They're crazy, and sociopathic, but they're not psychotic in the psychiatric sense of the word in that they are fully aware of everything they do, they believe it's right, and they act with specific purpose, just as purposefully as they can behave normally and with decency.


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10164 | Registered: Feb 2004
caregiver9000
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Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 6:55 PM, November 16th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When people talk about the emptiness of the NPD, that's what they're talking about. They're crazy, and sociopathic, but they're not psychotic in the psychiatric sense of the word in that they are fully aware of everything they do, they believe it's right, and they act with specific purpose, just as purposefully as they can behave normally and with decency.

I went cold and numb when I read this. This is where I have failed to understand. There is no "real" him. It is as you say


It was more like he was just taking a stroll through the funhouse. Whatever distortion he wanted to display is whatever mirror he stood in front of. The rage seems so alien to us, which is why we tend to think of it as an out of control monster, but in truth, the out of control rage and irrationality served a purpose.

I keep wanting to figure out what is the real person and every persona is an act. There is nothing inside. The church going father is an act. The great dad is an act. The redneck was an act that worked for him as a dirtball carpenter on the construction site but was quickly replaced for the act that best suited me, the woman he had "decided" on. And decided is what happened. He didn't fall in love. He chose me. And then he made sue I was on board by doing WHATEVER it took to get me to the alter. But it was all but mathematical in the precision. A then B then C. But the goal was won and then there was a sudden, very sudden shift in behavior. I was dumbfounded and oh so hurt at the absent uncaring husband who came home, sat on the toilet and then left again. I was alone. He was living the same life he did when he lived with his mother. And he expected me to be like his mother and do his laundry, cook his meals, clean up after him and keep his house. Plus, be sexually available, and excited at all times. It was NOTHING like I imagined marriage.

But until I was ready to leave, on the first anniversary, I was prepared to be divorced. It was the worst imaginable outcome in my eyes but I was resigned. I had said and done everything I could to make changes. I begged, cried, raged, made changes, talked, wrote letters, threatened. But until he believed I was leaving he ignored everything.

something else I don't understand. The rage. It is there. I have seen it. But it is a cold rage. Very cold. Not a flaring temper out of control. The rage is calculated. Usually I would yell and cry and argue and he would go to sleep. Literally. I was beneath him. Not worthy or engaging in that way. It was far more satisfying for him to cause my emotional upheavable and watch me spin my emotional wheels and then try to get make up sex. I used to think he enjoyed my tears and snot. He would force my face to his shoulder to "comfort" me. But no words. Never any remorse. I would give him the words. I would tell him what I needed to hear from him and he would mumble "I'm sorry" and try to have sex or go to sleep and start snoring.

But I have seen him strike the kids in anger. I have seen him attack a puppy for nipping. I have seen him yell at the kids. But I was exempt for the most part from this type of attack. It has been one of the things I have felt held me back from believing he was like the others I read about on here. I think the fun house mirror thing helps me to understand. The rage isn't out of control. It is a calculated response, just like everything else. He knew that to truly cross that type of line with me would have immediate consequences. He could control me so much easier emotionally and physically was a risk he wouldn't take. But the kids will flinch. The dog will flinch. I would leave and I would press charges.

He believes he is soooo smart. Smarter than everyone else. In his field, in his friendships, in his family. He is not like anyone else in his mind because he is so much smarter. I think he is not like anyone else because he is so f'd up.

The rules have never applied to him. Not seat belt laws or car registration or taxes or paying bills or writing checks that would bounce, or being late, or finishing a job. He did not do the homework assignment for our lamaze class. Give your very pregnant wife a foot or back rub. He did not, and did not care if he was the only one who did not and he did not care enough to lie and claim he had done it when I offered that as an option to avoid being the only wife with a lousy husband. I was hurt that he didn't care enough to cherish me and my pregnant body by doing something that made me feel better, made me feel loved. And he didn't care enough to even pretend so that I wasn't publicly shamed in this fact.

One more thing. Anybody else get inappropriate laughing? Laughing at people getting hurt. At other's humiliation, or at the kids when they are upset. Not America's funniest videos people getting hurt, although that was definitely his thing, but stuff that really wasn't funny. DS sharing an embarrassing moment at school, or someone getting a speeding ticket, someone complaining about work or pain, or complaining about his snoring (family trips where we shared a hotel room.) Do NPD's have a sense of humor? Is laughter real or an affect?


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5308 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 12:30 AM, November 17th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Caregiver, thank you for your posts. A lot of what you wrote, I could have, especially about the cold rages. WH never raised a hand to me either, because, like you, he knew that I would call the police immediately and press charges. But he admitted to hitting OW. (never found out the story why)
Wh usually gave me the "silent treatment" with monosyllabic answers and I had to figure out why he was mad. His response was that I should know. It was usually because he did something hurtful to me and I called him on it or yelled in response, so I would end up apologizing just to make peace.

Just had an AHA moment. My IC suggested that not only is my mother BPD (borderline personality disorder), but also has many narcissitic traits. Mom would push my buttons until I would react and then berate me for being "disrespectful" to her. I was trained well.

WH could control me very easily with his charm and the withdrawl of love when he was upset or angry. No need to yell or argue.

Caregiver, WH always said to everyone how wonderful I was, that I was an angel, etc. His family tells me that he acted better when he was with me. Seemed to care more, was more generous. They say he needs me.
Maybe he was "mirroring" my good qualities? Even though my self esteem is almost non existant right now, I do know I have some good qualities, and am a moral person.

Trying to understand all this does help a bit with my healing. It takes away from the obsessive thoughts that OW is so much better than me, or what could I have done to prevent this.

I have come to the conclusion that I probably would not have been able to prevent this. If I gave up myself completely and was only there for him and only him and his needs, maybe....but then I would have not been me at all. Just a robot for WH's needs to be at his beck and call, and to wait patiently for whenever he wanted or needed me.

Ironically, I was close to doing that anyway, and almost lost myself, but there is still some of my own soul left, I think.


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
caregiver9000
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Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 7:33 AM, November 17th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have come to the conclusion that I probably would not have been able to prevent this. If I gave up myself completely and was only there for him and only him and his needs, maybe....but then I would have not been me at all. Just a robot for WH's needs to be at his beck and call, and to wait patiently for whenever he wanted or needed me.

You are trying to make his behavior be about you. If yours is anything like Stretch it has nothing to do with you. The cheating doesn't have anything to do with you, his moods don't have anything to do with you, getting fired doesn't have anything to do with you, him getting sick, or the roof leaking or the car breaking down or the kids crying or any of the other things that piss him off don't have anything to do with you. But we hear it all the time- "If you had.... then....." That is an awful lot of responsibility and if you think about it, complete horseshit.

If you had existed only for him, he would have cheated because you were so boring. If you had been perfect- in appearance and attitude and cook and cleaned, and the most awesome sexual partner who was never sick or tired, like a favorite toy that was never broken and had no needs of your own... HE STILL WOULD HAVE CHEATED. And still tried to make it your fault.

Does he have favorite toys? A boat or ATV, or guns or video game or something that was a prized toy and a favorite object? Mine did. And they were never what he wanted for very long. The jet ski needed fixing and care and it pissed him off that it wouldn't work when he wanted it to. It sat in storage for more than five years before he sold it at my insistence. He wanted to own it even if he never used it! Does that sound familiar? Kinda like the wife that he cheated on and devastated but never really wanted to leave. Mine wanted me to accept that he needed me AND the freedom to express himself outside the marriage. He wanted to keep me, even if he wasn't interested in being married. And the latest way of "keeping" me? He refuses to set visitation. He is out of state, so regular visitation is impossible. But he will not ask in advance or tell me what days. He will not keep them for long stretches of time. I believe this is a purposeful calculated way to keep me from being able to make plans with someone else. I am NOT dating, don't have any interest in dating (maybe ever!) and wouldn't do more than go to a movie with a friend or something. He will not give this courtesy. I am at his beck and call, the keeper of the kids, and if he has them, I am to wait on the shelf until he returns them. And he has the kids call in while he has them. To tell me something or ask me for more time. I know this is at his prodding. To keep tabs on me. Once I was at Target and he had my youngest call me to ask if he could go to his Aunt's house with dad. He is with dad, I don't expect them back for several hours, I am not clearing all activities ?!? and the whole call was just weird. I was nice to DS (not his fault we are having a weird phone conversation) but it is odd. I couldn't hear well inside the store, and I couldn't tell if he was asking to come home for some reason. So I told him I wasn't home. Obviously since I was on the cell and not the home phone.

htf, thanks for chiming in with the similar situation about the rage. It has been something that bothered me, in that I didn't understand how to reconcile Stretch with what I understood to be a "classic" symptom of NPD. The NPD diagnosis came about from a therapist who (as far as I know) suggested it to Stretch. He shared her diagnosis with me, almost proudly. But I don't think she was truly qualified to make a diagnosis as she was a family Christian therapist and she only saw Stretch once that I KNOW of. He claimed to continue to see her while we were in "R" but I cannot confirm that and no longer believe anything he says without secondary confirmation. He would tell me he saw her because I wanted to hear that. Doesn't make it true.

And how about that. A narcissist who thinks NPD is cool because it makes him special. He wouldn't actually read or understand the diagnosis because no one would know anything better than himself. Stretch never read self help books suggested to us in MC. It wasn't "his thing." I never understood that. But it was because of course he already knew everything he needed to know and it was the rest of us who had so much to learn.


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5308 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
realitybites
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Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 9:45 AM, November 17th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So I don't know what cycle we are in right now...but I did want to give props when they might be deserved...but living with a P/A with some NPD traits has you never knowing what is up or down.

Usually my B-day or XMas are nightmares, as all of you with NPD's can attest to. Could never arrange anything on time or get the right gifts or any gifts and you can just FEEL the resentment when they do anything at all for you.

But I do have to say that my H has a new job this year (thank God as I know many out there are struggling) that he loves which has really changed his whole demeanor, for the first 6 mos we were not sure if it was going to last or not, but it is all going well. I just had a B-day and he went out of his way to go and get something I asked for, picked it up, put it all together and actually followed thru on something! So I am crossing my fingers that maybe at age 56 that he might be thru the worse of this and a new job has given him a new lease on life.

But like a trauma victim you never know which way this will go with this, and also he may revert back and want a bigger better gift by his Bday or Xmas so don't know.... but I know I can complain with the best of them, but did want to give kudos when deserved and needed. And I have also told him these things, not just you guys.


Posts: 5524 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
honesttoafault
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Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 7:34 PM, November 17th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

reality bites, I'm glad to hear that WH did something right by your birthday. You can never know what they will decide to do!

Caregiver: I have the same problem with WH's "diagnose". My IC met him once and has just heard my side of the story, but there are so many traits there. I don' know if WH is "full fledged" NPD, but he also has BPD traits too. One poster on another thread said something to the effect that he didn't know what his WW had, but she was messed up!!

Everyone is an individual, and I don't think even so called "classic" cases are all the same either. I do know that my WH is very focused on "appearances" and always wants to buy designer clothes to "show off" for "business" purposes.

New toys? WH always has to have the newest gadgets, the newest phone. He can't wait to get it, and then when he has something for a while, there is a new toy he wants. He is never satisfied. Probably the same with women too.......

WH "always knows best" and is so quick to point out to me that "people don't feel or act that way", perhaps HE doesn't have those feelings and cannot fathom that others might have feelings?

I guess sometimes I just want to make some sense out of all this chaos.


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
sadtoo
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Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 8:25 PM, November 17th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He didn't fall in love. He chose me. And then he made sue I was on board by doing WHATEVER it took to get me to the alter. But it was all but mathematical in the precision. A then B then C. But the goal was won and then there was a sudden, very sudden shift in behavior.

I need that shuddering icon again. Wow. That is EXACTLY how it was for me too.

There were times when he would tell me and others what a perfect wife I was. How perfect in every way I was. And I remember that making me feel VERY uncomfortable, because nobody is perfect.

And when I fell from "grace" nobody fell any further or any harder than I did, in his eyes.

I too was ready to leave by our first anniversary. And I too begged, cried, raged, made changes, talked, wrote letters, threatened, went to MC, IC, etc. and NOTHING changed. If anything, it got worse.

One of the reasons why I stayed as long as I did was because of his family.

His family tells me that he acted better when he was with me. Seemed to care more, was more generous. They say he needs me.

Same here. His mother would tell me over and over again, "You two are meant to be together. I knew it from the moment I met you. You are so good for him. He loves you so much..."

I must have been a complete sucker for flattery.

And all of it was a bunch of horse shit because by the time he got done filling them with all of his lies, they didn't even ask me my side of anything. They just tossed me out of their life like last week's trash and welcomed OW#1, OC and OW#2 and bought into the crap that I had abused him and drove him to the cheating and the lying and having a secret OC.

And it wasn't until he believed I was leaving that anything changed, it was when I filed a protection order and had his ASS THROWN OUT that things changed. He went C-R-A-Z-Y. But by then, I was so far beyond done.

Now the rage. Mine had very calculated rage too, but most of the time when his rage would come out he was drunk....very drunk so it WAS more out of control. But when he was not drunk, I would describe his "controled rage" as more of a sneaky snake. (like hiding in my bushes or spying on my house from the street, after he was thrown out)

He would also do things to push my buttons (prior to the throw out) to the point where I would completely flip out. I would be on NO SLEEP and had been out of town working my ass off and he would start in. Pretty soon I would just lose it and start screaming at him. He would have this calm, creepy voice saying crap like, "Have you taken your medicine today? You need to see your psychiatrist..." It was at that point when I was ready to go for the throat when I would realize that he had a tape recorder going.

OMG. Just thinking back on those days makes my skin crawl.

Anybody else get inappropriate laughing?

Like an insane hyena.

Cackle away at the wrong times, inappropriate times, overly laugh when it wasn't really that funny, laugh at other people's expense. I think they LOVE laughing at other people...especially if other people are hurting because of them.

And it wasn't just the laughing. Other emotional gestures that he would use during inappropriate times. It was weird. The guy could cry on cue, I swear. He was a drama queen. Worse than any woman I know. And the crying would come at the TOTALLY WRONG time. I can't count the times when I would say, "Are you crying??

The one thing we all have to realize is that we were ALL chosen/targeted because of our WONDERFUL QUALITIES and the NPD's wishes to be LIKE US. This was NOT a normal relationship where we fell in love, and the love died and the relationship ended. It was for US, but most definately NOT for them. There was NO love that they felt for us. They might have loved what we did for them / offered them, but they didn't love us in the traditional sense. We had something to offer them and they took that until we either had no more to give or refused to give anymore.

If you had existed only for him, he would have cheated because you were so boring. If you had been perfect- in appearance and attitude and cook and cleaned, and the most awesome sexual partner who was never sick or tired, like a favorite toy that was never broken and had no needs of your own... HE STILL WOULD HAVE CHEATED. And still tried to make it your fault.

This is so dead-on. You could dedicate your whole life to an NPD, and they will still cheat.

And the OW? For me she/they really became non-issues. In the beginning I wrestled with the regular things like, "what does she have that I don't have, what makes her better than me? blah, blah, blah...." But in the end she/they are just another unsuspecting idiot in his life who will eventually end up in the trash heap wondering what the hell just happened.

[This message edited by sadtoo at 8:32 PM, November 17th (Wednesday)]


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7927 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 8:26 PM, November 17th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

the need to make sense of it. It is a drive and a compulsion almost. It makes me want to talk it out all the time and my friends are awesome but they don't seem to need to understand it or understand why I do. I am not like this in all aspects of life. My faith is enough for religion. My kids act that way because they are kids. When they are sick, I can treat symptoms without having to know exactly what they have. But in this? Because it has had the farthest reaching effect and complete and utter devastation, maybe? Or because the behavior is soooo unlike anything I understand or could do?

I guess I am back to

can't make sense out of nonsense


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5308 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 8:33 PM, November 17th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You'll probably be obsessed for a long time. I know I was.


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7927 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 8:40 PM, November 17th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Pretty soon I would just lose it and start screaming at him. He would have this calm, creepy voice saying crap like, "Have you taken your medicine today? You need to see your psychiatrist..."

I got a very similar version of this. And the look in his eyes and the tone of voice was _________!?! I have no word. It was pure evil pleasure. He had created a crazy woman and the glee with which he would poke me and the condescension and the boredom and the pity and the final resigned apology once the game was over. Yes, shuddering icon needed here.

I find it easy to hate and pity the OW. I hope she is as broken as I suspect so I can let go of most of the pity because he will destroy her too. I have no doubt. Even if he gives her 17 years like he did me, which I highly doubt. She has no hope of being perfect after all. How can he present her as the perfect woman? She is a homewrecking whore and everyone knows it. At best he can keep her in her world, but he can't trot her out here. And really who has time to make her perfect while exerting so much energy making me crazy.

Ya'll are saving me, truly. So someone give me the story behind the "TRIBE." Anyone know who coined it and if it has a special meaning?


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5308 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
sadtoo
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Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 8:59 PM, November 17th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It was pure evil pleasure.

That's exactly it. Mine too was such a condesending ASS!! He could speak with such authority. (former police officer) It was just sickening.

Yes. I hate and pity the OW(s) in my XNPD's life too. Especially OW#2. She is considered by his family to be the "savior". She "saved" him from his "crazy wife" (me).

But her life with him is based on LIES just like mine was with him.

I remember the stories he told me about the horrible ex-fiance before me. She was crazy, had abused him and interestingly enough, all of the things he now says about me. All lies. After I threw him out, I jumped on the phone and tracked this woman down and compared stories. Talk about the hair raising on the back of your neck.

C-R-E-E-P-Y

She had actually left town and CHANGED HER NAME to get away from the guy!!!

I had a HUGE "aha" moment and realized that the story lines stays the same in this guys life, just the characters change. So now I was the terrible villian and OW#2 was the "perfect savior." Where as before it was the fiance who was the villian and I was the perfect savior.

It's the same story, different day. He just has differnt characters playing the roles.

[This message edited by sadtoo at 9:04 PM, November 17th (Wednesday)]


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7927 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
sadtoo
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Default  Posted: 9:01 PM, November 17th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, the "tribe"

I really don't remember who coined that phrase.

Maybe it was JJct, but I'm not sure. There have been lots of nick-names for us all here.


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7927 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
realitybites
♀ Member
Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 7:43 AM, November 18th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WOW! sadtoo....your post was very spooky to me. *we do need a shuddering icon* Mods?

The way they call you "perfect" but it never really felt like a compliment. I hate that word now. Also, how people would say I was too good for him or how did he get so lucky? And I would take this as a compliment. It fed my need somewhere I guess to hear this or feel like I was better then someone? Yikes.

The weird way they laugh at everything? Wow. Mine too. I pointed it out to the therapist when we went to MC as he would not do it there, the MC took my word and started to sorta prompt him on things and my H would start doing it and the MC would point blank ask him why he was laughing at this or or at that? Would point it out to him and my H did not like that.

Also the CRYING. I have always felt maybe I have no feelings or not emotional because my H will cry at the drop of a hat and I will also look at him and say "are you crying?"

I do not see as much of it in the last few years but my god how I saw it ALL THE TIME before the A came out.

That was a spooky post.


Posts: 5524 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
veritas
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Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 9:16 AM, November 18th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WRT the baiting, I got this all the time. I'd say something and he'd start an argument for no reason. He'd be nasty as hell, and eventually the personal attacks would come. That's when I would shut down. Then would come the complaints, "I have a wife who's supposed to be my best friend -- and she doesn't talk to me! Why won't she talk to me?" Then the banging of things around the house would start and he would escalate his behavior. In the early days, he would leave, which was a relief. In later days, he decided that "we" needed to act more like a couple, so he would hang around and torture me. "I" was actually supposed to "act more like a couple," take the insults, and suck up to him.

He did the inappropriate laughing as well, but what was even more chilling was the disproportionate pleasure he took when someone he disliked would have something bad happen to them. He looked almost feral then, as he sat there cackling and smug. He would obsess over their misfortune for hours.

I tried to make sense out of nonsense for a very long time, and that kept me stuck. Even after I "knew better," it wasn't until after he had been gone for several months that I realized that the cage door was unlocked and I could walk out of it completely.

and Tribe, I think, was Bob.

[This message edited by veritas at 2:59 PM, November 18th (Thursday)]


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

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