Violence and abuse doesn't have to include hitting. And usually with NPD's it does not.
Remember when you fill out your order to include three or four most current and most threatening episodes. Include as much factual detail as possible. Do not include emotional statements, etc. Just stick to the facts. You will come across much more credible.
Also, make sure you are journaling or keeping a log right now. It will help you kee your thoughts straight, but will also be a valable asset in keeng track of important events, times, dates and details.
As far as the chldren. You can say that he has never phyically harmed the children but that you are extremely concerned about his beavior s of late and how it might effect the children.
As far as his reference to you being a "crack addict". Don't put anything past him. No matter how perposterous, these people simply have no bottom. During my divorce my XNPDH kept referring to my cocaine addiction. I blew it off thinking he'd lost his mind. He actually made that part of our divorce petition. Claiming the "real" reason for our divorce was my secret cocaine addiction.
Don't put anything past him.
Also, try not to be scarred. Stick to the facts. Speak only when spoken to, try to remain strong and hope he runs his mouth to the judge and shows his ass. They always do.
You're going to be just fine.
When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
OC born 2001 (I didn't know)
Remarried 2008 (Happy!)
What I said to him was, you need IC. You say that you can't talk to me and that you have victimized me. You need to get IC so that you can discuss with them what you cant with me, otherwise MC won't work, you will be deflecting and hiding.... he agreed
Oh I forgot to mention two things from my post
1. He has never been physically abusive to me. He has yelled (to make a point that he believes is right). but there has never been a shove, push, or even chest puffing in my face to make me back away...
2. Upon discovering the traits and ways of an N.. I now firmly believe my mom was one ... example.. I am nine... in the car with mom... she pulls on to a busy street going the wrong way... I yell MOM-YOU'RE GOING THE WRONG WAY. Her reply, in a calm cool voice, "darling what do you care if i kill myself" **uhhh hello.. i am in the car!!!*** 29 years later and I still have that fear when I drive on that road.. i flash back to it on a weekly basis
---looking for that book now on my kindle, thank you!!
Confronting the drug addict is easy... his eyes are big as pies, he can't hide his drug abuse from me if he tried.. there is NO way he can have a line or two and come home .. it has to be no less then sit down for 8 hours straight and arrive home completely strung out... kinda hard to hide it that
I think we would all be better off, truly best case scenario if this man were not a part of our lives at all. But I don't think I can get that for the kids. I believe there are grounds for enforced boundaries with regards to coming onto property and calls. I believe I can show he has the potential for violence. Does this mean he shouldn't come to eat lunch with them at school? Or see their soccer games? I am asking because I don't know. I don't know.
There are no overnight visits already. I have full custody and determinative decision making. I get to set the "rules." But as my L defined it: with that much power comes increased responsibility and I have to be careful not to appear to be abusing the power. I have to "foster" a relationship with Dad unless I can prove a fear for their safety. With his online porn and real life acting out I feel strongly about overnights. But at the moment, afternoon visitation has been ok. The kids seem ok, mostly. And if we are in public, he of course maintains his normal face.
another hour. then I will know I guess. and then starts the fear of what happens when he gets served..... I think I may be here a lot.
need strength. although my L said to let the emotions out at court. Not to appear to "together." Ha Ha, I don't think that will be an issue. Anyone ever thrown up in court?
Trying to get him to book IC.. now not sure he will when before he was willing and thought it was a good idea... i know he is dealing with more then being a WS, but also an addict and going to family doc (also family friend of his parents) to get checked for std's and aids...
I wish I had words to help you. I read your posts, and I don't have enough experience or energy to give right now. I know that there will be others who can and will give you the words you need.
I am relieved, for the moment on my own front. Court was awful but also not so bad. How's that for a contradiction? the judge was nice and "grandfatherly." soft spoken and kind. I can't even imagine sitting and listening to the stories of abuse day in and day out.
I had to go first. Which I hated! But after I decided that I am glad I didn't have to listen to the other ladies in there seeking protection.
I was concerned it wouldn't be "enough." what I had to say or offer as proof. I know this is just the initial stage but the judge found that domestic abuse has occurred, not the other "likely to occur" choice. And until the hearing the no contact, stay away from me and the children until the hearing. Which is next week. So, an accomplishment, I have a protection order and I am to "carry it on my person" at all times. What a way to live.
But I do feel good for having taken back some control.
Interesting side note. I carried the order to the sheriff's office for Stretch to be served. A little anxiety over what will happen on that front. But after the voicemail left by the deputy, I got a quite polite email from Stretch stating he will mail child support on Friday. Obviously he doesn't know why the sheriff's office left a message or he wouldn't have emailed (against the court order). I am guessing he is trying to "appear" appropriate and supportive in anticipation of what ever he thinks the sheriff is contacting him for. Going to take the relief I feel now and enjoy it. I am sure I will find things to worry about later.
Thanks for the support and backbone encouragement from you all.
caregiver: Mine was physically violent after 2 years together, subverted it to where it would come out in subtle emotional abuse, then outright emotional abuse, culminating in physical violence on many occasions, one of which sent me to the doctor (although there was at least one other incident when I should have gone). Unfortunately, there's no recourse until they actually threaten to do or do something. I feel for your struggle, wish you luck, and am sorry that I don't have more to offer you.
Your attorney is right. There is nothing wrong with appearing frightened in court. And yes, I have thrown-up in court. Not literally in the courtroom, but right before walking in, I lost in but thankfully made it to the bathroom. I must have looked agast because my face was all blotchy and my eyes were watery. He was his usual self.
I find it interesting that he went so psycho about the OW coming to the door. If I were you, I'd be careful about feeling flattered about that. I don't take it as he was sending her away or anything like that. To me it seems more like a man who was on the brink of being exposed...BIG TIME. There is way more to the story.
I don't know if he's NPD or not. I do agree with V. The drug proplem is the first thing you must deal with. Until he gets that under control you have nothing.
He can say all he wants to about having NC with OW, changing his cell phone number, staying at a hotel, blah, blah blah...but as far as you know...none of this is true. It's all just words and probably lies.
Weather these are the lies of the pathalogical narcissist or the drug addict, who knows? You'll never know until he kicks the drugs.
If I were you, I would go complete and hard NC until he complets a 90 day IN HOUSE treatment program. Tell him that and mean it.
If you don't do this, you are going to have a life of misery.
But I know I feel better because I ate food today. Hard to imagine that that becomes a marker for improvement.
And I didn't throw up in court. Or even really cry. Shaky voice and raw. I have always used physical pain to control emotional pain. Nothing crazy like cutting, but biting my lip, or twisting my finger or digging a finger nail into my hand. So I had a lot of fidgeting. But I held it together... right up until I got outside the courtroom. In the hallway I bawled for about 3 minutes, leaned on the wall and then pulled it together to go finish the paperwork.
It will be ok. I will be ok. This was a hurdle for me because I put it out there and I wasn't scorned or turned away. What he is doing is wrong. It is scary and he should be stopped. I am not crazy. Not yet. :)
care, I'm glad you got your order of no contact. You sound very strong right now. I came into this forum to post something I copied out of a post I was composing in D/S because it seemed to much for everyone and that it couldn't pertain to most there. At this point I'm not posting it (urgency lost) but I understand what you mean about needing to be here and not feeling like you can relate elsewhere.
Thing is, it takes so much energy to post here or anywhere that I find I'm trying to look to you all to do it for me!
So....in the effort to put myself out there, I'll say that my biggest and post, the issue right now is that npd xwh is lately constantly manipulating and hurting our children as a means to either get me or because that's just what he does. I don't need to know which but I do know that this taxes beyond my limit my ability to stay in control. See my post to notgonnabreak's recent post about ws's idea of children as possessions.
I need help here. I am doing all I humanly know possible and my kids need more (counseling, parenting coordinator, guidance counselors, positive friend parent role models and family members are not enough - we're using them).
Any ideas, thoughts or 2x4's welcome.
I don't know the answer. I think just being honest and available to the kids. Giving them the skills through all those means to make decisions, to see what is truth, to understand what they feel. It is a hard road.
I feel strong. Except when I don't. I found out that the deputy responsible for serving the protection order and the summons on Stretch- he called him. Told him what he was calling about. Accepted Stretch's word that he was out of state and wouldn't be "available" to be served until after the first of October. After the hearing date. I have two major problems with this. 1. This deputy is very "good ole boy" attitude with me. Public record and standard procedure were his excuses when I flipped over the fact that Stretch now has information that will surely make him angry at me. But I don't have protection until he is SERVED. UGH. How stupid, stupid.
2. I get to show up for the hearing and get a continuance, not because I can't be there, but because Stretch can't be there. This feels too much like an old song. I take care of things, do what is right, be where I am supposed to be, and Stretch expects the world to wait on him, revolve around his schedule..... AND it fucking well does. We'll continue the hearing until he can be served, until it is convenient for him to show up.
And, tonight, Stretch tells the boys. "I miss you so badly it hurts me." I am in PAIN he tells them. He has been physically and emotionally absent for a year. A solid year. They have adjusted to missing him. But now they are expected to listen to him complain about how he HURTS. It is unreal to me. And now, Stretch is applying for jobs locally. He tells the boys, he needs to be closer to them. NOW it is all about HIS needs, HIS pain and he is sharing it with two children. I hate him. Selfish prick.
Stretch also tells them he will be home this weekend. Great, so I guess he can be served. But he tells the kids and now they expect to SEE him. Which they can't do because the judge included them in the order!!! Is Stretch just going to ignore this small fact? OR does he expect me to handle this fact for the kids and deal with the disappointment he created for them? SELFISH prick. Of course Mommy gets to be the one to tell the boys they aren't going to see Daddy this weekend. Mommy gets to deal with the disappointment. But it wasn't that much disappointment. Better to have dealt with it now, instead of five days from now after building up the anticipation of seeing Daddy. I have assured them time and again that I will not lie to them. That I will always tell them what I can and what to expect. No surprises if I can help it. But I am scared to mess up with them. It is so daunting. The responsibility, the expectation, the need from two little boys...
A real kicker? My youngest (6 years old) came at me hard tonight. But you're the one who wanted to break up, not Daddy. Why can't Daddy see us? He isn't the one who wanted to break up. YOU are. I hate this man.
I remained calm. I said that isn't true. The storm passed quickly. Deep down they trust me. I am grateful for that. But there are so many days when I think how much easier it would be to give up.
rain, no matter what we do, it doesn't feel like enough. I get to a place where I feel good about me, and the kids are ok, and we are busy and doing well for the whole day... and then he spends 3 minutes on the phone and it is like a tornado blew through. It is exhausting!
All we can do is what we do. And rinse and repeat. Because it is a daily battle to get back to normal. Complete removal of his influence is the only cure I can imagine. I don't see that happening. Unfortunately, it seems that parents have the right to screw with their kids. And my saying what he is doing and my desire to "protect" my kids from him is a crime. What a backwards world that is.
I typed a post earlier in D/S and deleted without posting. I can't do it. I want to share, to get it out, to get feedback, but it is hard, tiring and scary to put it out there. I don't know how to get what I need so I can give my boys what they need. I am tired. I am tired of fear. I am tired of the cycle of fear and acceptance. Tired of wondering if the fear has become too familiar and now I am too complacent. Or if the fear has made me crazy and I am over reacting.
We walk not alone. That is the biggest thing. this forum, these people, I get a lot of strength in knowing it isn't me, it isn't the first time someone has felt this, said this, or been in this place. I cherish the advice the support the wisdom.
I'm so sorry you're dealing with the crap of the system. It really sucks. The best advice I can give you hear is to stay the course and remain on these people. The squeeky wheel gets the grease.
Back when I went through this, I was SHOCKED at how many women abuse the system. (not giving the system any excuses) By the time I had reached the end of my rope and literally had no other option but to get a protection order to have my XNPDH lunatic removed from my house, I was a wreck. I did not come to that decision lightly. I probably waited WAY too long. But anyway, when I got down to the courthouse there were several other women there filling out the paperwork. They were there with their friends and talking. I overheard their conversations as we were sitting fairly close together. Their reasons for obtaining their orders were rediculous. "He didn't get me what I wanted for my birthday...I'll show him." "He didn't call me when he said he said he would...." Then to make it worse, when they would take the paperwork up to the clerk prior to seeing the judge, it was clear that this was not the first order of protection this person had requested or received. They did this, only to take the guy back in the next week or two.
It's this kind of crap that bogs down the system and causes the callousness that we see when those of us who really need the help ask for us. And unless we ask, beg and go back again and again, nothing gets done. It's so frustrating.
I can't tell you how many telephone calls I made. Finally, the server, the clerks and even the judge started to see what was really going on, but it took a LONG TIME.
My heart breaks for the kids. The only thing you can do for your kiddo's is to provide them with consistant and loving support. As hard as it is, do NOT bad mouth their father. He will be doing enough of that about you and that will backfire on him in the long run. You be the bigger person. Provide your children with the tools to cope with his lying, his disappointments and his letdowns. You be their rock. Even when it hurts.
Same for you. Provide your children a solid, consistant, loving enviornment. Arm them with the tools that help them to cope with their father's cruelty.
You're not going to change him and hopefully when he sees that he's not getting a reaction out of you, he will stop.
Hugs to all
Knowing this has made it easier for me to deal with the way he is, and do what I need to do to survive. It has never been easy, but knowing why he acts the way he does, and being able to come here and see so many other people dealing with the same manipulative behaviours, and getting such tremendous support is really encouraging.
I can relate to so much of what is being said here, and have lived/dealt with so many of the same situations it is scary. When all is said and done, it gives me some comfort knowing that I am not alone.
[This message edited by lykkeme at 8:41 AM, October 26th (Tuesday)]
1. When the NPDís lashes out *covertly*, what did that look like? Or what can it look like?
2. Has anyone determined that they were chosen by their NPD because you had characteristics of someone they wanted to be like?
3. Has anyone with children noticed their NPD has a fondness for one child in particular because they either see their own *specialness* in that child or special characteristics that they themselves donít have?
4. Talking about adult NPD specifically and not narcissistic tendencies, is there a spectrum of degree in which a person with NPD can be affected by the disorder? Is there a scale of mild to severe for NPD or is the disorder more black and white in terms of it's affect on a person?
5. Despite the unique characteristics of the NP disorder that often prevents a NPD from receiving help, is help possible?
Thanks in advance.
Has anyone with children noticed their NPD has a fondness for one child in particular because they either see their own *specialness* in that child or special characteristics that they themselves donít have?
Yes, yes, yes. We were in MC when the A was going on but surprisingly said with sarcasm he lied.
Anyway, we have three children between us and his daughter was the oldest, my son was next and he has a younger daughter. The oldest daughter is 10 years older than the youngest. Anyway, during counseling I was informed that I was to treat all the children the same. My FWH did not do that. He put the oldest daughter on a pedastal and was incredibly protective of her, but he was fine with the way I treated my son and the youngest daughter.
FWH was bullied and I would watch the older daugther physically hurt the younger daughter, now remember, they are 10 years apart. So, here is this 15 yo girl pushing around a 5 yo girl. That was many of our fights and now since we are now back in counseling I have tried to explain that he protected the abuser. It was such a confusing time.
As you can see, this is a pretty touchy for me and is going to be addressed at MC.
[This message edited by Tryingtoheal61 at 11:48 AM, October 27th (Wednesday)]
He put the oldest daughter on a pedastal and was incredibly protective of her
You think that this is in direct relationship to your WH's NPD? If so, how?
I mean, have you ruled out his favoritism for the oldest as a result of the specialness of her being his first born or any negative life experiences she may have had that makes him protective of her? You've ruled out that the way he treats your son is a result of him not being your WH's natural born child?
he all but ignored my 5 year old until 11 year old started blowing him off.
11 year old has become very assertive with him, and routinely criticizes him when he starts pulling his shit with her. (she has started saying "I can't wait for you. you're always late. I have a life.") she has started to refer to him as a "douchebag"......(I try to deflect this......)
there have been a few times recently where I swear he's trying to pit the 5 year old against the 11 year old.
Him: X, 51 PA SA NPD?
2 kids; DD14, DD8 divorced