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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts 5
Tal
♀ Member
Member # 3300
Default  Posted: 10:44 PM, February 18th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't know the answer Nouveau, but I do know it sounds very, very familiar.

Often when empathy for me would be an appropriate response--he is just---blank. I can only think it has to do with SA being an intimacy disorder. It's like a part of him as a whole human being is flat out missing.

Something has been getting through to him recently though. He may very well be clueing in to the fact that I'm near my tolerance breaking point. Maybe it's just fear for himself that I'll kick him out--I don't know. I know he feels guilty that he has hurt me deeply, but that doesn't translate into being able to tap into showing remorse enough to help heal anything. Seriously--this guy is an emotional bonehead & needs an instruction manual.

Just to see what would happen, I printed out "What every WS should know" post from the Wayward Forum. That's an instruction manual basically. I don't have high hopes of anything--it's more of an experiment.

I have noticed that he's started reading his SA basic text book again and bought an SA daily reader book the other day. It could be pure manipulation on his part (as I said, he seems to be sensing that I'm disgusted). Still--I'm not going to discourage it. I'm just watching what he does in a very detached sort of way.


Posts: 2145 | Registered: Jan 2004
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 10:58 PM, February 18th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is he something even worse than a NPD... like a sociopath?

No, probably not. Probably not even NPD.

He's a SA. It's an intimacy disorder. His emotions are completely compartmented.

Being empathetic to you opens him up to true intimacy with you and that scares the shit out of him.

My rSA was this way too until he got sober and worked his recovery and learned how to be present in the relationship.

7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
Nouveau
Member
Member # 1731
Default  Posted: 6:38 AM, February 19th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, Tal, when empathy should be the appropriate response from him, he blanks out too. Good way to put it, that a "Part of him as a whole human being is flat out missing."

7, I hope you are right. I hope he is not a sociopath or at the very least a NPD. Not that it matters much for me anymore.

I will never understand if I live to be 100 how a grown man who can fly down the highway on a chopper at 120 mph, can climb to the top of ski lifts and repair them, but then be so deathly afraid of intimacy. What do they think is going to happen? That the world is going to explode if they let someone know what is in their heart? Do they even HAVE a heart?

I've been reading on sociopaths. And it's starting to scare me how many parallels he has. I am beginning to doubt if this man even has a soul. If so, I have never seen it.


I sing the songs of a woman who has passed through anger and outrage to a kind of stunned resignation in the face of overwhelming human folly.....

Posts: 4895 | Registered: Jul 2003 | From: The great frozen tundra
Tal
♀ Member
Member # 3300
Default  Posted: 10:35 AM, February 19th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nouveau, the thing about addiction is that it can MIMIC the appearance of different mental illnesses and personality disorders. Addiction can also be used to self-medicate emotional illnesses.

People need to be clean & sober for over a year before they can be properly diagnosed just for this reason.

I think that the intimacy disorder involved in SA does have some aspects that could easily mimic NPD or Sociopathy, but that's misleading.

One of my family members was addicted to meth. (keeping in mind here that SA involves addiction to various brain chemicals rather than outside substances) You could have sworn he was a sociopath, bi-polar, paranoid schizophrenic, with episodes of psychosis. After being clean for two years, it turns out that with active addiction out of the mix--he actually suffers from depression and ADHD.

ETA: P.S. my SAWS is an adrenaline junkie too.
That's probably pretty common.

[This message edited by Tal at 10:40 AM, February 19th (Saturday)]


Posts: 2145 | Registered: Jan 2004
anotherOctober
♀ Member
Member # 29794
Default  Posted: 10:59 AM, February 19th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Support needed please. I am going to meet with WS at treatment center next week and I am anxious not knowing what to expect. I do know i need to keep my boundaries and see what happens but any thoughts you all have would be appreciated :)
AO

Posts: 125 | Registered: Oct 2010
mitehvblonitpa
♂ Member
Member # 23291
Default  Posted: 1:05 PM, February 19th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

spouses and partners of SAs only

[This message edited by drowninginsorrow at 3:25 PM, February 22nd (Tuesday)]


FWH SA-me (61)
BW-her (48)
Married 18 years
Together 17 years
4 wonderful kids-21, 15, 12, 9
D-day after D-day after D-day seriously I can not count them .....I feel like OJ heck what's one more stab wound

Posts: 184 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: PA
mitehvblonitpa
♂ Member
Member # 23291
Default  Posted: 1:11 PM, February 19th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

spouses and partners of SAs only

[This message edited by drowninginsorrow at 3:25 PM, February 22nd (Tuesday)]


FWH SA-me (61)
BW-her (48)
Married 18 years
Together 17 years
4 wonderful kids-21, 15, 12, 9
D-day after D-day after D-day seriously I can not count them .....I feel like OJ heck what's one more stab wound

Posts: 184 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: PA
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 3:16 PM, February 19th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

mitehvblonitpa
Is she in therapy? Is she working a recovery of her own? It's all very individual but it is important that she be working her own recovery since the addict and the spouse are never in the same place during the first few years.

Have you guys learned FANOS?

7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 3:23 PM, February 19th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I mentioned FANOS to mite and realized I haven't talked about it since the 2nd SA thread!

According to Google FANOS was developed specifically for couples in Sex Addiction recovery.

Couples in recovery need to stay connected emotionally, and addicts' spouses need to get consistent updates about sobriety. Most couples find that in the busyness of a typical week, this connection gets easily lost.

Over time, Mark and Debbie Laaser have developed an acronym for couples to use as a guide for regular "check in" conversations. These conversations can be long or short, it's up to you. They use the acronym FANOS - from the Greek word phainos which means "to bring to light" - to guide the conversation:

Feelings – describe what / how you're feeling

Affirmations – find one or two things you want to affirm (they should be about your spouse)

Needs – something you need today (it does not necessarily need to be something you need from your spouse but it can be)

Ownership – something you’ve done or said that you take responsibility / apologize for

Sobriety or Self-Care – The SA will report on his sobriety. The spouse will report on the status of your self care attempts (or sobriety if appropriate. You may do sobriety if you're working a 12-step recovery and have a sobriety date for stopping co-dependent behaviors etc. Or obviously if you have your own addiction problems you'd do sobriety for that.)

For those in R with a rSA try using this acronym as a guide for a conversation with your spouse every day or every few days. You will be amazed at the sense of ongoing intimacy you experience.

7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
FmrLIer
♀ Member
Member # 29784
Default  Posted: 4:50 PM, February 19th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

7,

Thank you for introducing FANOS to this thread! I emailed it to myself and SAWH. It feels like we're already losing the connection we made after DDay.


Me (BS)
Him (fSAH)
OA/PA

Ignorance was bliss but it wasn't the reality of my marriage...


Posts: 427 | Registered: Oct 2010
FmrLIer
♀ Member
Member # 29784
Default  Posted: 4:57 PM, February 19th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Any advice on how I can keep myself "in the moment" while we're being intimate? I've been able to do so well, but the last two times mind movies popped in out of nowhere and we had to stop.

I think it relates to us not really connecting during the day. Does anyone else go through this?


Me (BS)
Him (fSAH)
OA/PA

Ignorance was bliss but it wasn't the reality of my marriage...


Posts: 427 | Registered: Oct 2010
dazdandconfuzed
Member
Member # 11692
Default  Posted: 8:24 AM, February 20th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

mitehvblonitpa - When did the ddays start, before or after your sobriety date? I'm just wondering how many years she has been dealing with this in general. I don't think I would necessarily say that certain stages are tied to sobriety dates, but our emotions do tend to cycle a bit as time passes. You just never know what might act as a trigger. As long as you do talk it out, and continue to be supportive, it will hopefully just be a little blip.


Me - BW
Him - WH

Posts: 6618 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: Massachusetts
lost_in_space
♀ Member
Member # 24302
Default  Posted: 8:51 AM, February 21st (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi All.

I know I don't hang out in here much. I think I figured something out and wanted to run it by you to get your opinion.

So WH started his usual coming onto me game this last Friday. He claimed that it was because he had just gotten his 90 sobriety. It didn't seem right and I'm not willing to have sex with him so it was a no go.

So my wheels have been turning about it since his approach was the same. IDK if that makes sense. Anyway. His boss is younger then we are, really attractive, her and her H are highly succesful enginerds who makes tons of money. She just had their first baby and has been out on maternity leave. This last Friday she came in. Now WH has already crossed lines at this job. He had given me his word that he wouldn't be going to lunch with any females, the first time he was asked to lunch by his boss and another higher up, he went. He gave his word he wouldn't go into the field with a female. First time asked he went. (Most his A stuff happened at lunches with coworkers and in the field.) He already started this new job out badly. Both times it has been with his female boss.

So he interacts with his boss who will be coming back part-time soon. She asks him to lunch again. He claims to have not gone. Then comes home with a case of the hornies.

So I asked yesterday if his boss has good boundaries. Says she keeps her conversations to work stuff only. I asked because he pointed out the type of car she drives while we were walking in a parking lot. We were walking and he literally said 'Boss has that car.' Then he goes on to tell me that his boss has a maid that comes in twice a week and that she's a career oriented mom who will be putting her new daughter in daycare all the time and that it's good that his boss will be coming back just part-time so that the baby can readjust.

Am I just really starting to see things clearer and see red flags all over this as a result of the clarity? Or have I become paranoid?


Me: BW 38

Last DDay: 7/15/09
TT: 2/28/11
TT: 3/5/11
Dday again: 3/10/2011
All Done: Better late then never.


Posts: 3513 | Registered: Jun 2009
dazdandconfuzed
Member
Member # 11692
Default  Posted: 9:06 AM, February 21st (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LIS -

It sounds to me like your H still has bad boundaries - but I think it's still too early to say whether or not it's a straight up red flag. Did you have a consequence for going out to lunch or into the field with women? If so, did you follow through with it? Is it possible for him to turn down lunch with his boss? In other words - is it socialization or work meeting?

I'm sorry you are hurting.


Me - BW
Him - WH

Posts: 6618 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: Massachusetts
lost_in_space
♀ Member
Member # 24302
Default  Posted: 10:03 AM, February 21st (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Going out with the boss is social. He can tell her no. I don't necessarily think he's having another A just that he is cycling through his same old routine and has found another someone to pursue. That's how it works for him. He finds someone he thinks might be interested or is a challenge, then he starts feeling out their boundaries, then moves onto the pursuit. If it's a challenge, he'll just try and break them down over time or until there's a new one to pursue or he gets bored. If it's not a challenge he has some fun and moves on when he's bored.

The only consequences are that he cannot move back into the bedroom and I will not have sex with him. Of course and that I will get to the point that I leave or kick him out. It's been over 1 1/2 years and no sex and we are both well established in our separate rooms. He still complains about wanting to be back in the master bedroom but he hasn't done the work so it's a no go. He hates the stigma of living in the office.

I've been working on me and my independence. I'm going through the process of getting back into school, and I work now. I told him that I would be taking measures to become completely independent again, heal myself, and if he didn't do the work and we still weren't in R because of his lack of healthy action, then I would be moving on without him literally. It looks like I will be moving on at some point.

So it's not the red flag of cheating but the red flag of 'home skillet' is still cycling through his SA moves and attention seeking ways. Breaking boundaries and such. There is no reason for him to know how much money his boss makes, her having a maid, and her childcare plan. That's just the stuff he let slip. What else is there?


Me: BW 38

Last DDay: 7/15/09
TT: 2/28/11
TT: 3/5/11
Dday again: 3/10/2011
All Done: Better late then never.


Posts: 3513 | Registered: Jun 2009
lost_in_space
♀ Member
Member # 24302
Default  Posted: 10:25 AM, February 21st (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wanted to add that the thing that makes me think it's his SA cycle is that he came home with a case of the hornies that night. It wasn't a I want my woman come on, it was a needy gotta get a fix come on. Like he needed to finish out the cycle and be recharged to go at it again.


Me: BW 38

Last DDay: 7/15/09
TT: 2/28/11
TT: 3/5/11
Dday again: 3/10/2011
All Done: Better late then never.


Posts: 3513 | Registered: Jun 2009
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 12:06 PM, February 21st (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lost,
So it's not the red flag of cheating but the red flag of 'home skillet' is still cycling through his SA moves and attention seeking ways. Breaking boundaries and such.

Yes, exactly. He's NOT sober. He's acting out. He's doing all his rituals and then trying to get sex from you. As I told you, there is a huge difference between abstinence and sobriety. Sobriety would mean he's learned NOT to do ANY of his rituals. He's still doing it. And to be quite honest, I truly doubt that he's abstained from masturbation for 90 days when he's still doing all his rituals which wind him all up sexually.

Bottom line, he's not sober, he's NOT doing the work and you KNOW it. The ball is firmly in your court. You have to decide what you want. It's not about him anymore (he's shown you he's not interested in seeking recovery) it's about you and what you're going to do.

7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
IRN2006
♀ Member
Member # 23717
Default  Posted: 12:12 PM, February 21st (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LIS-
FWIW, it sounds like your husband might be engaging in "middle circle" behavior, especially after you explained things in your posts.

So, for me personally, yes, that would send up red flags.


Posts: 1295 | Registered: Apr 2009
lost_in_space
♀ Member
Member # 24302
Default  Posted: 12:56 PM, February 21st (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for your help.

I know he's not changing and is not 'sober' whether he professes to be or not.

I got confirmation when I asked about how he came across all this info he had about his boss. He literally told me that she was coming to his desk to discuss these things with him and that he felt obligated to listen and he didn't think it was crossing any boundaries and if there was crossing it wasn't him and it was minimal.

Then he told me he wished had hadn't been honest with me, (not that he had. It was just stuff that slipped out.) and he wished he had lied.

Same old crap. I got word I passed the CBEST today so one more step for me towards complete independence from him. I'll keep on my path that is centered around me and my kids. Nothing's going to change there.

I guess I've never really paid attention to his patterns am have been annoyed by him. He's been making snide comments about how I'm not giving him kudos for his 90 so I was taking the time to see if I thought he was doing anything positive in real action I could see. I'm not seeing it now that I've looked.

I looked up 'middle circling.' Definitely looks like that.

Thank goodness I'm not getting wrapped up in his manipulations anymore. This is much more peaceful for me. That is stepping back and looking at it objectively instead of so much emotion being involved.


Me: BW 38

Last DDay: 7/15/09
TT: 2/28/11
TT: 3/5/11
Dday again: 3/10/2011
All Done: Better late then never.


Posts: 3513 | Registered: Jun 2009
lost_in_space
♀ Member
Member # 24302
Default  Posted: 2:20 PM, February 21st (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok now he's done his raging bit, has rested and is taking a shower to go somewhere or just as part of his cycle bit.

Definitely not sober.

I don't know where the shame is coming from that is bringing about the rage but I'm not asking.


Me: BW 38

Last DDay: 7/15/09
TT: 2/28/11
TT: 3/5/11
Dday again: 3/10/2011
All Done: Better late then never.


Posts: 3513 | Registered: Jun 2009
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