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User Topic: Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts 5
too trusting BW
♀ Member
Member # 15459
Default  Posted: 10:34 AM, July 29th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TenaciousBW,
I wanted you to know that you were heard.

I will respond this afternoon, and hopefully someone else can give you some ideas on boundaries for day to day life with your SAH.


Me 39
SA-FWH 44
11yrs M
In R-maybe
3 DC from Marriage #1
1 DS together
at least 4 d-days

Posts: 1300 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Kansas
IRN2006
♀ Member
Member # 23717
Default  Posted: 11:12 AM, July 29th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi-
My husband is a rSA. He acted out with porn and masturbation. He's been sober for 3.5 years now, with no slips and relapses. Our marriage is fairly recovered. I still have work to do..

I'm going to pipe in about boundaries.

First off, the first thing to be read is "Boundaries" by Cloud and Townsend. It's a must.

In a nutshell, boundaries are not meant to be punishment for anyone. Boundaries are simply a way to communicate what behaviors you will and will not tolerate in your relationship. Boundaries are meant to keep you physically, emotionally, and mentally safe.

Boundaries are not threats. I hate when they are referred to as threats.

All of our actions have consequences, either good or bad. (We work hard, maybe we get a promotion. Good consequence. An addict husband continues in addictive behavior, we'll there's likely consequences with that.)

You must set boundaries based on what you can follow through with. Just as with raising children, once you set a boundary, you MUST follow through. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. If you only follow through on boundaries with children, the "rules" get confusing, and they don't believe your word. Same thing happens with an addict.

So, if you are a SAHM who hasn't had a job in 5 years and no personal savings, perhaps a boundary of divorce doesn't make sense. You'll have no way to support yourself in the kids if your SA breaks a boundary. You also won't be able to retain a lawyer.

Now, I only have one boundary with my husband. Relapse=divorce. It isn't a threat. I'm not trying to motivate my husband into recovery behavior. I simply won't live with dysfunction. I grew up in a dysfunctional family with untreated mental illness. The last three years of my life have been my first healthy years in life. I'm in my 30's. I don't ever want to live steeped in dysfunction again, nor do I want to raise my children with a dysfunctional person.

See, my boundary is based on my feelings and my needs. Nothing more, nothing less.

I also do have a personal savings account, that my husband knows about but does not have access to, incase one of us needs to move out of the home and I need to lawyer up. I've already spoken to a lawyer and I know what to expect from the divorce process. I'm obviously going to hope for the best, but should the worst happen, I'm prepared.

Now, my husband hasn't slipped. So I don't really have any hard boundaries about that. I would likely ask my husband to visit his CSAT for a tune up and then I'd want to know what happened and how to prevent it in the future. I'd also probably want some just compensation as well.

Besides divorce, there can be a ton of other boundaries: legal separation, in house separation, asking for extra recovery efforts, not sharing physical intimacy, maybe not sharing emotional intimacy.

We can't tell you what your boundaries must be. Every partner here must do that work for themselves. That's why taking care of yourself and doing your own recovery work is more important than getting caught up in the addicts behavior.


Posts: 1295 | Registered: Apr 2009
IRN2006
♀ Member
Member # 23717
Default  Posted: 11:28 AM, July 29th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Anyways....regarding the facebook thing I can not have this conversation with my husband on my own. Every simple conversation turns into a horrible fight with the end result being I get verbally abused and he wants a divorce. But if he is going to do facebook against his CSAT advice and mine I would like that out of respect for my pain, his addiciton and acting out history, that he would consider before 'friending" females that he at least discuss it with me. I dont think that he will respect that request but I would at least like to have the conversation with his CSAT present amongst a few other questions I have like will terms of sobriety ever be established with this man, and when would he ever start working the steps....topics that CAN NOT be discussed just the two of us. I would at least like to know the answers to those questions.

Or is this just me trying to CONTROL him again and I need to do none of those things and just let him act out if he is going to act out? This all seems crazy to me. If you are going to say you have to let him do what he is going to do and you have to set your own boundries, well what I dont get is what would be an example of a boundry in this situation? Threaten divorce? This is what I am having a hard time understanding. I feel so stupid and like a big giant door mat.

With the verbal abuse. You can say "I will not allow you to abuse me. I'm going to leave the room. When you can talk to me respectfully, I'll restart this conversation."

Honestly, though, if your husband chooses addiction, no matter what, there's nothing you can do. You aren't his parent, so you really can't "let" him do anything. Your husband alone is responsible for his recovery or lack there of. Your husband will not recover until he is willing to do the work. It's as simple as that. It's hard to accept that. But, it is what it is.

You never trust what an addict says. Addicts lie. It's part of their behavior. You trust the behaviors that you can see with your own eyes. That's when I knew my husband was in recovery. I saw new behaviors that were sustained over a period of a few months..

You do your work so that you can trust your gut.

So, the question becomes do you want to live with an addict? If you choose to, for what ever reason, then the question becomes "What do you need to do to keep yourself emotionally, mentally, and physically healthy while dealing with crazy?"

And, maybe boundaries aren't the whole answer. Maybe now's the time to work on your support network. Get out of the house more, get invovled in hobbies, volunteer work, what have you. Maybe you make sure you eat well and exercise. Maybe you go back to school.

But, right now, it seems silly to focus on your husband. He's giving you all the info you need through his behavior. He's an addict not interested in recovery. And there's not a damn thing you can do about it. He's an adult, making his choices. Not saying they are great ones, but they are his and his alone to make. Just like your choices are yours and yours alone to make.


Posts: 1295 | Registered: Apr 2009
IRN2006
♀ Member
Member # 23717
Default  Posted: 12:25 PM, July 29th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Here's another thought on boundaries..

I have boundaries with my FOO. They aren't stated.

But, in order to keep myself emotionally/mentally safe I only discuss "safe" topics with them like work, the weather, new items. No emotional intimacy. I don't advertise this because doing so would be like stepping on landmines. It's my own personal boundary.

I've never disclosed what my therapists have said about my family life to my FOO.

I also won't engage my FOO when they are verbally abusive. I don't say "I'm not engaging you because that is abusive" because again, it wouldn't do any good. (I'm always the culpable party, never the foo.) So, I just go about interacting with them within boundaries that keep me safe.


Posts: 1295 | Registered: Apr 2009
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Exclaimation  Posted: 6:57 PM, July 29th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

List of resources for Spouses/Partners of SA
This is the advice and list of resources I give to all members newly dealing with a possible or confirmed SA partner. This is all good advice even if you don't stay together. If you don't educate yourself about SA and codependency you're very likely to end up with another addict partner.

~~
Educate yourself about sexual addiction.
First and foremost you should read these books:

"Mending a Shattered Heart: A Guide for Partners of Sex Addicts" by Stefanie Carnes.

"Deceived: Facing Sexual Betrayal, Lies and Secrets" by Claudia Black PhD

and

"Your Sexually Addicted Spouse: How Partners Can Cope and Heal" by Barbara Steffens and Marsha Means
~~~~
His best hope for recovery is for him to seek treatment with a CSAT (Certified Sex Addiction Therapist) Here is a resource to find CSATs by zip code:
http://www.iitap.com/find_csat.cfm

You might also want to start on that website to find a good therapist for yourself. He has to work his recovery on his own and even if he doesn't get help you'll need counseling to recover from the trauma of being married to a sex addict. And believe me, it IS a trauma. You need to find counselors who are experts on SA otherwise you're in for a world of confusion and pain. (This is my opinion based on experience)
~~~~
Online resources:
http://www.sexhelp.com
This is Dr Patrick Carnes' website. He is *the* expert on SA.

http://www.sa.org
Sexaholics Anonymous
If your husband faces his sex addiction and seeks treatment he'll most likely be directed to a 12-Step group. This is the one I recommend. If you look at their site you'll also find information for yourself that may be helpful. (I personally recommend SA not SAA because SAA is too lax in their definition of healthy sexual behavior. This is my opinion.)

http://www.recoverynation.com is an excellent online community with online recovery workshops for both the SA and the spouse. (This should not replace seeing a CSAT (see below) and going to SA meetings (see above) for the sex addict but is a great addition to those things.)

http://www.candeocan.com This is an excellent source of information. They focus on what they call "porn addiction" however, there is no such thing, it is ALL sex addiction. The info on their site is so good that I still recommend it with the explanation that "porn" addiction is in fact "sex" addiction.
~~~~
To fully understand SA you both need to do some reading. If he doesn't face his addiction you should still do the reading to help yourself and decide what you want. I don't advise women to stay with SAs who are not in recovery and who are not sober.

I recommend for the partner (in addition to the 3 above):

"Don't Call It Love: Recovery From Sexual Addiction" by Patrick Carnes (I recommend you read this after you've read "Mending a Shattered Heart" and the others, but not before.)

For the SA:
"Out of the Shadows: Understanding Sexual Addiction" by Patrick Carnes
(I don't recommend you read this book, but it would be an excellent read for your husband to start if he's willing to face his addiction, while you read "Mending a Shattered Heart")

Most SAs have a serious porn habit, this book "Porn Nation" by Michael Leahy, would be a good book for the SA. Mr. Leahy is a recovering sex addict who had a serious porn addiction that cost him pretty much everything before he finally hit bottom. (I don't recommend that wives read this book at first. It's too triggery for "just found outs")
~~~~
Sadly, a really helpful post regarding boundaries and consequences has long since been lost. Here is a link to a website with good info on it:
http://joy2meu.com/Personal_Boundaries.htm

This is going to be vital for you going forward. You cannot force him to seek treatment and you cannot control him but you do have a right to set boundaries to keep yourself safe.

7

[This message edited by 7yrsbetrayed at 9:06 PM, September 15th (Wednesday)]


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
mitehvblonitpa
♂ Member
Member # 23291
Default  Posted: 9:02 AM, July 30th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi All,
7 is giving a great list here and I highly recommend that you get the books she recommends. I do have one small thing I would like to say. This strictly comes from my experience and talking to my CSAt and a few others local here the statement that most SAs ahve a porn addicition can be dangerous for teh spouse as they might try to justify tha their spose is not SA as he does not use porn. I have not looked at porn since I was 22 which is over 35 years. I needed/wanted human contact. So yes many SA use porn but please do not let that be a defining characteristic. You can be an SA with or without the porn and you be SA with porn alone. Great points and links 7. You are the best
Thanks,
G


FWH SA-me (61)
BW-her (48)
Married 18 years
Together 17 years
4 wonderful kids-21, 15, 12, 9
D-day after D-day after D-day seriously I can not count them .....I feel like OJ heck what's one more stab wound

Posts: 184 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: PA
TenaciousBW
♀ New Member
Member # 29058
Default  Posted: 10:58 AM, July 30th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What would you suggest I do in this situation?

My husband is not looking at porn, not masturbating, not having affairs, not doing any acting out behaviors that I know of.

He is going to his weekly CSAT meetings and his weekly 12 step meetings but once a week.

He is not working the steps, he has not gotten a sponsor. He has read half of the books he was assigned to read then stopped reading.

He did open up a facebook account 2 months ago and probably spends an hour a day on it. His friend list is growing steadily. Lately there has been a surge of women added to his list. None are acting out partners.

He is admittedly depressed and is willing to go on meds again. He is willing to do baby steps on our relationship.

He thinks he is ok because he goes to his meetings and isnt acting out. But his behvior is angry, bitter, bizarre.

He wont let me in on his meetings and gets very angry if I ask if he is going to his appointments.

He is still blameshifting as to why he cheated.

It makes it difficult to say to him "You are not working on recovery!" Because he will look at me and get pissed and point out that he is not acting out and going to all his meetings etc and what else do I want?"

But he is just going through the motions. He isnt actually doing the work. He isnt doing the stepss, he isnt off the internet, he got on a social networking site. he gets angry if I ask him any question about his addiction or meetings.

I feel so stuck as to what to do. Im in a rut. I am trying to take care of myself and detach but it is so damn hard. Why is it so hard? Why cant I stop trying to help him? Why cant I move on?

I almost wish he would just cheat again and make up my mind for me. Or maybe he has and I dont know about it yet.

What do you do when you are in limbo like this? When your husband is doing what he is supposed to be doing and yet isnt doing what he is supposed to be doing. Does that make any sense?

Is this typical for SA to do the half ass? To do the "for show"? And why would they? If they dont believe in recovery then why not just end it? My husband keeps saying how miserabe he is, wants to divorce me most of the time, cant stand living in a world of keyloggers and the like, then if he doesnt believe in his addiction or isnt interested in recovery then why isnt he out of here so he can go enjoy his addiction? Thats what I dont get! If he left then he could go and whoop it up! He tells me all the time he doesnt love me anymore when we fight so whats keeping him here? I DONT GET HIM!!!! I wish somebody could help me understand this man I am married to.


Posts: 25 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: United States
IRN2006
♀ Member
Member # 23717
Default  Posted: 1:20 PM, July 30th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To me, it sounds like your husband is a dry drunk. In AA, that's when alcoholics no longer drink, but they talk, act and think like an addict.

It likely means that your husband is sober but is not recovering. Other's call it "white knuckling" it.

It makes it difficult to say to him "You are not working on recovery!" Because he will look at me and get pissed and point out that he is not acting out and going to all his meetings etc and what else do I want?"

See, but you already know that your husband is not working on recovery. That's your truth. No matter what your husband may say.

My husband worked his recovery hard for 18 months, He didn't fight it. But, he knew he had a problem long before I discovered, and he wanted to stop long before I discovered his addiction.

I also believe that there is no one-size-fits all recovery for addicts. My husband didn't get much out of the 12-step group. For him, having the CSAT was the answer. Some SA's will use the internet as a primary tool for recovery (like Recovery Nation.)

For me, it's not really alarming that my husband didn't work the steps or get a sponsor. So, I didn't care what my husband did to recover, just as long as he worked his recovery.

Now, I also knew that I wouldn't live with an addict. So after d-day, I told my husband that he could make a choice, me or addiction. But he couldn't have both.

I'm not trying to be an ass..but the ball is in your court. We can't tell you what to do. You have to do your work to figure it out. Do you want to live with a dry drunk? If so, then you need to figure out how, using boundaries. Is addiction a deal breaker in your life? Do you want to divorce? Can you? If not, can you start working on the steps.

I won't tolerate anything but recovery with regards to addiction. It's the ultimate of deal breakers for me. (And, actually, had my husband cheated as part of the addiction, I would have divorced as well.) So, if I were you, I'd set a timeline. (Sorry, I don't know how long your husband has been sober.) I'd probably say, if I haven't seen any recovery behaviors in 18 months of sobriety, then I'm leaving. Then I would get myself ready. I'd save up money, find a lawyer, get working on a new budget for myself, and what ever else I had to do, so that when my deadline came, I was ready to do what I needed to, if it came down to it.

That said, some people DO have reasons for staying in dysfunctional marriages. I've seen it with my FOO, and I've read about other stories in forums....

You can't make this decision based on love for your spouse. Love counts for nothing when addiction is present.

You can make this decision based on love for yourself, though. That's what matters.

[This message edited by IRN2006 at 1:23 PM, July 30th (Friday)]


Posts: 1295 | Registered: Apr 2009
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 1:30 PM, July 30th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My husband is not looking at porn, not masturbating, not having affairs, not doing any acting out behaviors that I know of.

Exactly, "that you know of" is the key here. If he doesn't want you to know, you probably won't and you're turning yourself inside out obsessing about it.

He is not working the steps, he has not gotten a sponsor. He has read half of the books he was assigned to read then stopped reading.

And this is not your problem, it's his. You do have a right to set boundaries and consequences if you don't feel safe because of this behavior but you can't control his behavior. It's HIS stuff.

He did open up a facebook account 2 months ago and probably spends an hour a day on it. His friend list is growing steadily. Lately there has been a surge of women added to his list. None are acting out partners.

You have every right to express your feelings about this and tell him how it makes you FEEL. For example you can and should tell him it makes you feel insecure or scared or sad or hurt, whatever you are FEELING. "I" statements. "I feel..." not "You" statements "You are hurting me..." There is a huge difference. Demanding he close the account will get you exactly nowhere. Ultimatums are worthless. Threats are worthless. If you want to set a boundary about this you should but it has to be realistic. I'll give an example but obviously YOU need to figure out what works for YOU and YOUR situation. "If you continue to have a Facebook account, which makes me feel scared and hurt, I will no longer be doing your laundry." (Boundary: you are not ok with him having a FB account. Consequence: he needs to do his own laundry.) If you threaten divorce and you have no intention of following through, it's useless. Please read the page I linked about about boundaries and consequences.

He is admittedly depressed and is willing to go on meds again.

And this is completely and totally his responsibility.

He is willing to do baby steps on our relationship.

What does that mean? Are you seeing a MC?

He thinks he is ok because he goes to his meetings and isnt acting out. But his behvior is angry, bitter, bizarre.

Boundaries and consequences. When he is being angry, bitter and bizarre you need boundaries and consequences in place to keep yourself safe.

He wont let me in on his meetings and gets very angry if I ask if he is going to his appointments.

His SA meetings? Spouses are not allowed at SA meetings. If you're talking about seeing his CSAT, stop asking him and call the CSAT and ask for a couples session. If the CSAT says no, find a different CSAT. Stop asking him if he's going to his meetings. You can't control whether or not he goes so why bother. If he's not willing to be open about his recovery and tell you that he's going, he's telling you exactly what you need to know. You are very much still in the co-dep mode of trying to control everything. (Which I totally understand, we've all done it, me included. I'm giving advice based on my experience but you're not going to be able to change these co-dep behaviors until you're ready and/or you get some really good IC for yourself.)

He is still blameshifting as to why he cheated.

Then he is not in recovery.

It makes it difficult to say to him "You are not working on recovery!" Because he will look at me and get pissed and point out that he is not acting out and going to all his meetings etc and what else do I want?"

But he is just going through the motions. He isnt actually doing the work. He isnt doing the stepss, he isnt off the internet, he got on a social networking site. he gets angry if I ask him any question about his addiction or meetings.


These conversations shouldn't be happening at all. By saying "You are not working on recovery!" and pestering him constantly you are just trying to control him. You can't. If you see that he is not working on his recovery and that is a boundary for you, SET A CONSEQUENCE and follow through. Doing the 180 is good in this situation.

I feel so stuck as to what to do. Im in a rut. I am trying to take care of myself and detach but it is so damn hard. Why is it so hard? Why cant I stop trying to help him? Why cant I move on?

Because you are focusing on HIM instead of yourself. You have to shift the focus to YOU and what you need and want. Maybe it will include him, maybe it won't but you need to find out for yourself.

I almost wish he would just cheat again and make up my mind for me. Or maybe he has and I dont know about it yet.

So it's all up to him? You don't want to do any work and figure anything out you want him to do something that will force you to do something. This is very unhealthy. I apologize, I can't recall if you're going to IC. If you are you need to address this very seriously with your IC. If you're not, you need IC, RIGHT NOW and it needs to be with a CSAT or someone with experience treating spouses of addicts (sex addicts would be best but any kind of addiction would be fine if you can't find someone who works with spouses of SA. But that is why I always suggest the spouse see a CSAT)

What do you do when you are in limbo like this? When your husband is doing what he is supposed to be doing and yet isnt doing what he is supposed to be doing. Does that make any sense?
Makes complete sense. We've all been there. You detach. You seek your own recovery with counseling. You learn to set healthy boundaries and consequences. You focus on YOU and your recovery.

You didn't cause it. You can't CONTROL it. You can't cure it.

Is this typical for SA to do the half ass? To do the "for show"? And why would they? If they dont believe in recovery then why not just end it? My husband keeps saying how miserabe he is, wants to divorce me most of the time, cant stand living in a world of keyloggers and the like, then if he doesnt believe in his addiction or isnt interested in recovery then why isnt he out of here so he can go enjoy his addiction? Thats what I dont get! If he left then he could go and whoop it up! He tells me all the time he doesnt love me anymore when we fight so whats keeping him here? I DONT GET HIM!!!! I wish somebody could help me understand this man I am married to.

Yes it is typical for the SA to behave this way. And you are in a place every spouse of SA has been. YOU have to take action for yourself. Read the books I've recommended. Educate yourself about SA. See a CSAT for you. Find a group. He will do whatever he's going to do and you have zero control over it. Focus on your recovery.

7



Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
knutz
♀ Member
Member # 28877
Default  Posted: 4:23 PM, July 30th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello All,

I really need some help today. My husband has been in recovery for 7 months; he is doing everything right -- 12-step, sponor, IC, MC, not acting out, apologizing daily, etc.

My problem is with sex -- we have not had it in 7 months (except for a "touch of HB" after discovery day).

He is addicted to porn and frequented massage parlors for a seven year period and has been with over FORTY women. UGH.

Whenever we come close to being intimate I start playing those mind movies and I just want to at the thought of him with these woman.

I know that with sexual addiction it is really not about "me", but damn!! I am sick of these skanks invading my brain everytime I think about being intimate with my husband.

Everytime it happens I feel like SCREAMING at him -- How could you do this to me? To us? How could you be with these skanks and come home and look me and our children in the eye?

How long did it take most of you to get those mind movies out of your head, and do you have any suggestions for me? Do they ever really go away? Am I destined to be a prisoner of these thoughts?

HELP!!

Also, just a couple of great books to recommend: The Porn Trap by Wendy Maltz and Erotic Intelligence by Alexandra Katehakis. Really Helpful. I have read most of the books 7yrs recommended and they are great.

Thank you all for your guidance. I am sorry that we are all here, but at least we are together. It is nice not to feel so alone.


Together 23 years
Married 20 Years
BW (me) 48
FWH: 49 (rSA)
2 children, 9 & 12
DDay: December 27, 2009
"Life is not what it is supposed to be. It is what it is. The way we cope with it is what makes the difference". Virginia Satir

Posts: 188 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: New England
TenaciousBW
♀ New Member
Member # 29058
Default  Posted: 9:20 PM, July 30th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just want to thank everyone for all of the advice I have been getting. I so very much appreciate it. 7 years, yes I am seeing a CSAT, but I have to say she is not very good. She uses words like "jerk" and the like when she is talking about my SA husband. And she just tells me to leave him because "she would have been long gone". Shes been doing therapy for over 10 years but it doesnt appear that she has ever worked with an addict like my husband who is "white knuckling it" I guess. My problem is there are no CSAT's around here. There are only 3 listed and my husband saw the other two and she is the last one left. I am tempted to see if the first one my husband saw will see me. She gives me NO advice on co dependency. She just shakes her head and says theres nothing you can do.

I find it interesting that all this time my husband has been telling me that I have been trying to control him and I thought that was total bullshit and now everyone here is telling me the same thing!!! Wow! that is an eye opener!

Tho I still dont totally get it...I think I will need a few more 2x4s before I get this stuff.

My husband and I had another conversation tonight about his recovery -that I guess we shouldnt have had- but I got to tell him that I wanted a couples session with his CSAT and why and I did tell him he was being stubborn about working recovery and was resisting it. Surprisingly he was open to working harder. But I guess I will just back off. Man! Thats going to be so hard to do!!!! I feel like I am going to be abandoning him. Letting him drown. Especially when he is down. Thats what scares me I think. He is so depressed. He even talks about killing himself. Do I really leave him to himself in his time of need? Or dont you sometimes have to save the people you love from themselves when they something like deep depression has their brain warped? I am bipolar. I too wanted to die before I was treated. I know the darkness that he is lost in right now so I dont think its the best idea to just leave him completely alone.

Ill back off, but with one eye open.


Posts: 25 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: United States
IRN2006
♀ Member
Member # 23717
Default  Posted: 9:34 PM, July 30th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I feel like I am going to be abandoning him. Letting him drown. Especially when he is down. Thats what scares me I think. He is so depressed. He even talks about killing himself. Do I really leave him to himself in his time of need? Or dont you sometimes have to save the people you love from themselves when they something like deep depression has their brain warped? I am bipolar. I too wanted to die before I was treated. I know the darkness that he is lost in right now so I dont think its the best idea to just leave him completely alone.

If your husband is suicidal call 911 and get him monitored.


Posts: 1295 | Registered: Apr 2009
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 11:44 PM, July 30th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

knutz
Read my profile our situations are similar. My advice is that you start working to build emotional intimacy rather than physical intimacy. You're still hurt. You still don't trust him. His recovery is still very new. Is he sober? Has he received any chips yet?

Are you in IC? You both need to do a lot of individual work before you can do couples work. If you've both been in IC for 7 months it sounds like it's time for couples counseling to learn to rebuild trust and emotional intimacy in the marriage. Once you've rebuilt your foundation the physical intimacy will be better, I can attest to that.

TenaciousBW

7 years, yes I am seeing a CSAT, but I have to say she is not very good. She uses words like "jerk" and the like when she is talking about my SA husband. And she just tells me to leave him because "she would have been long gone". Shes been doing therapy for over 10 years but it doesnt appear that she has ever worked with an addict like my husband who is "white knuckling it" I guess. My problem is there are no CSAT's around here. There are only 3 listed and my husband saw the other two and she is the last one left. I am tempted to see if the first one my husband saw will see me. She gives me NO advice on co dependency. She just shakes her head and says theres nothing you can do.

I seriously, seriously doubt this woman's credentials! Did you find her through IITAP??
http://www.iitap.com/find_csat.cfm

Drop her like a hot rock. Call someone else. ANYONE else. She is TOXIC and frankly dangerous. She is completely undermining your recovery. I'm not kidding around here, this is serious.

Your husband is not seeing her is he??? That would be catastrophic.

If he's not seeing her, call his CSAT and ask for a referral from him. Tell him what this woman has said to you. He should be able to recommend someone for you to see.

I feel like I am going to be abandoning him. Letting him drown. Especially when he is down. Thats what scares me I think. He is so depressed. He even talks about killing himself. Do I really leave him to himself in his time of need? Or dont you sometimes have to save the people you love from themselves when they something like deep depression has their brain warped? I am bipolar. I too wanted to die before I was treated. I know the darkness that he is lost in right now so I dont think its the best idea to just leave him completely alone.
Of course you shouldn't abandon him. Be supportive of him when he is sharing with you, just don't push for info. I'm not at all saying you should abandon him you just need to learn how to be supportive without being co-dependent. That is why it is so imperative for you to find a GOOD counselor who can help you with this.

If he mentions suicide you should call 911 immediately.

7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
TenaciousBW
♀ New Member
Member # 29058
Default  Posted: 9:38 AM, July 31st (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for all the great advice and resource information. My husbands CSAT is the one that gave me her name but NOT because he could recommend her, because when he researched CSAT's she was the ONLY name that came up.

I had said I had a conversation with my husband and I wanted to say something that really is bothering me about it. I am having a delayed reaction about it because it took awhile to sink in and its probably traumatic as well.

When we were discussing acting out and that he wasnt right now he said "It wasnt worth it". Well eight years ago when he had his first acting out spree, after it was done and we went to marriage counseling and our marriage was on the mend and I would get nervous that he might be acting out again he would respond "theres no need". That would trouble me deeply and I would say "there never should have been a NEED!!" to cheat on me!!! But he would always give the same reply. That response always felt to me like a ticking time bomb that the cheating would happen again. And it did-even worse 5 years later.

So last night when his response about not acting out right now "its not worth it". Well its not worth it right now becuase he is getting monitored, there is fighting and accountability because I am hyper vigilant, he is getting flak, and Im not making it easy for him TO act out with the keyloggers and the like.

His response implies that he is not acting out only because of the aggravation from me he would get -NOT because he doesnt WANT to be acting out and not because that he has realized the destruction of it.

It felt like with his comment he was saying "I want to be acting out but you wont let me." Do you think that is an accurate assumption?

[This message edited by TenaciousBW at 9:43 AM, July 31st (Saturday)]


Posts: 25 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: United States
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 10:43 AM, July 31st (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It felt like with his comment he was saying "I want to be acting out but you wont let me." Do you think that is an accurate assumption?

No, I don't think so. Saying "there's no need" would fit that, but "it's not worth it" sounds like he's starting to get it. He's seeing that acting out is damaging his life and it's not worth it. I think that's a more positive statement. Just my opinion of course.

7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
Tal
♀ Member
Member # 3300
Default  Posted: 12:54 PM, July 31st (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OK, here's one thing that really concerns me. My SA-WS is in very early recovery. He seems to be past any point of being in denial about being an SA.

He shared with me that he is struggling with wondering if he is capable of being in a monogamous relationship, considering that he may not be "built that way". He says he has been wondering if it would be more responsible to just separate so that he can be the way his is without hurting people he cares about. He also struggles with wondering if he is "worthy" of a monogamous relationship. He also talked about how, in our culture & on media, there are hundreds of triggers everyday. It kind of sounds like he's feeling overwhelmed by the possibility of recovery if that is what is faced everyday.

Here is where I am reacting to what he said.

1. It sounds to me as if the "capable" question leads to rationalization and justification for further acting out. To me it sounds like an alcoholic saying, "Maybe I should just leave my wife & family so I can drink without hurting them".

2. I now have to wonder the same thing...what if the pull of being single & acting out if he wants to is much stronger than wanting to recover and stay together?

3. This all brings up a lot of really basic stuff about being afraid that I will always be unloved and abandoned.


Posts: 2145 | Registered: Jan 2004
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 4:53 PM, July 31st (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

1. It sounds to me as if the "capable" question leads to rationalization and justification for further acting out. To me it sounds like an alcoholic saying, "Maybe I should just leave my wife & family so I can drink without hurting them".

You are absolutely right that is exactly it. It's very, very overwhelming in the beginning. It's normal for him to feel that way. He'll either "get it" and work hard at being sober or he won't. Sadly, you have zero control over this. He will or he won't. You have to work YOUR recovery and see where things go. Eventually, if you're working your recovery you'll know what to do for you.

2. I now have to wonder the same thing...what if the pull of being single & acting out if he wants to is much stronger than wanting to recover and stay together?
We all wonder that. Again, you have zero control over it so worrying about it won't help much. Focus on YOU. Go to IC. Work YOUR recovery and it may come down to YOU making a choice about whether to stay or go. Worrying what he's going to do is giving him WAY too much power over your life.
3. This all brings up a lot of really basic stuff about being afraid that I will always be unloved and abandoned.
IC, IC and more IC. Reading, reading and more reading. Find support for YOU and work your recovery.

ETA:
In case you missed this before. Everyone spouse needs to remember this:

The 4 Core Beliefs of a Sex Addict

An addict's belief system contains certain core beliefs that are faulty or inaccurate and, consequently, provide a fundamental momentum of problematic behavior and addiction. Simply put, these are the four core beliefs:
1. I am basically a bad unworthy person.
2. No one would love me as I am. ("If you knew me, really knew me. You would leave me.")
3. My needs are never going to be met if I depend on others.
4. Sex is my most important need. (or Sex is the most important sign of love.)

This is why he is struggling. It's HIS stuff and he needs to work through it was a CSAT.

7

[This message edited by 7yrsbetrayed at 5:01 PM, July 31st (Saturday)]


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
Tal
♀ Member
Member # 3300
Default  Posted: 5:21 PM, July 31st (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

7Years: I hear you. Unfortunately, we're one of those families that has been hit hard by the economy. We can't even afford to pay the deductables to get one counselor, much less one for each of us.

We've got 12-Step meetings and reading things that are recommended...period. And, well, I've got you guys.

That's it.

I know I am going to have to make some amends at some point. In order to try to break through his denial, I got brutal. My pride and ego fueled my fury. I was pretty cruel with my words, which I can only imagine led to even more guilt & shame. On just about every other issue, we are kind and respectful of each other.

We ended up talking about how being in the program means trying to live by spiritual principals. I told him that I don't know any people who are strongly spiritual that don't have at least ONE major weakness to work on. It keeps us from developing false pride and arrogance, I think.

[This message edited by Tal at 5:34 PM, July 31st (Saturday)]


Posts: 2145 | Registered: Jan 2004
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 11:30 PM, July 31st (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My rSA and I are self employed. We have no insurance at all. We barely scrape by. We're going to have to file bankruptcy soon. We decided that a CSAT for him, IC for me and some MC needed to be a priority if we were going to survive. It's not cheap and it hasn't been easy. We gave up a lot to pay for it and it was worth every penny. Once he'd been sober about 3 years and we really turned a corner we cut way back. Right now I'm not going to IC, he's no longer seeing his CSAT for IC weekly but he still attends group run by his CSAT weekly.

We chose to make recovery the #1 priority right behind paying our mortgage. Best decision we ever made. And I say that while we're facing bankruptcy.

May not be the right choice for everyone but we saved not only our marriage but I think, quite possibly, our lives.

We all have to set our priorities.

ETA: Just realized this makes it sound like paying for counseling is what put us in this financial situation. It's not. We were screwed financially then. We're equally screwed financially now. The difference is if we hadn't chosen to make counseling and recovery a major priority we'd be divorced and even worse off than we are now and we'd be alone, instead of a team. As bad as we have it now, it'd be worse if we hadn't invested in getting professional help.

7

[This message edited by 7yrsbetrayed at 2:22 AM, August 1st (Sunday)]


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
Tal
♀ Member
Member # 3300
Default  Posted: 9:38 AM, August 1st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

7Years, no offense intended, but the choices you make for yourself don't mean that you have the right to judge or shame anyone else who doesn't have the exact same priorities. Is IC & a CSAT among our priorities: yes. Our highest priorities are to keep our house from going into foreclosure so that the 4 year old granddaughter we are raising has a roof over her head.

We have both been in IC and MC before. Honestly, I think it's hit & miss to find a good one and you can waste a lot of time and money trying to weed out the ones who aren't so great. I am still willing to go--dispite the fact that 3 IC's in the past dismissed my concerns about porn addiction 6 years ago when we were trying to R.

My husband has been hearing about CSAT counselors from others in his SAA meeting and he is willing to go. We just want to get stabalized in basic, fundimental needs before that occurs.

I honestly don't think that we are facing divorce right now if we only go to 12-Step meetings for now. Even if we weren't doing ANYTHING for ourselves, we would probably stay together as room-mates to hold the family together. Would we be happy as a married couple? No, probably not. "Happy" seems like a luxury right now in the scope of things.

I am actually seeing progress right now. I never thought I would see him admit to an addiction, much less go to meetings & start wanting recovery for himself. Even after only going to 5 meetings, our ability to discuss the addiction and our relationship is improving. His ability to provide honest disclosure is improving.

To me it feels like the ice is breaking up in a river that has been frozen for a long time. It does concern me that now that I am seeing investment in recovery and improvement in our communication, he is doubting his ability to be worthy at the same time that I am now having hope.


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