he did 1 IC. It has been about a year and things are getting better I guess.
First of all, your husband is NOT in recovery. At best he's white knuckling it and it will NOT last. At worst he's still acting out but is hiding it better.
I personally think that all your problems stem from the fact that in your heart you know he's not in recovery and yes, I agree, you're codependent. Especially since you seem fine with him not being in recovery.
He needs to see a CSAT and you need IC for yourself, also with a CSAT (not the same one)
Have your read any of the books I recommend? Where are you exactly in your recovery?
don't think me banishing my husband to his office (aka the pornatorium)
I'm stealing this term. What a perfect word.
So, a year in &
-SA WH has gone to about 10 counseling sessions. (off and on-and def. off for the last few months)
-No porn (he doesn't have computer at work and I put ours in a very public place in our house)
-I don't *think* any acting out.
But I don't know-of course you never do.
I feel like he is faking it-and he's stopped going to counseling. But he's faking it so well that he's convinced himself that he has "recovered."And me?
Before SA dx-he was a work alcoholic, who drank too much with no friends who didn't want to have sex with me EVER.
Now-very attentive husband, who leaves work at work, awesome involved dad to our children, a few friends, doesn't drink, who doesn't want to have sex with me EVER.
We are generally happy-but I just don't trust it. Is that normal? And, I kind of feel like-if all he had to do to quit watching porn 20 hours/week and wanting to sleep with strangers-was to go to a SA counselor a few times-WHY DIDN'T HE DO IT BEFORE NOW????
I guess it just seems too easy. I dunno. And the no sex thing-he wants to more these days-but I just don't trust him-
I am so downtrodden and confused and worried sick.
Sorry this is so confusing-I don;t even know what I am looking for.
I hate SA. I hate WH for not getting help sooner. I hate WH for forever keeping me up at night with worry. I hate WH for bringing SA into my children's lives.
fWH had ONS with High School Principal he met on Ashley.com. 08/25/2009
If it was that damn easy, why didnt they do it before? Why did they bring this into our lives?
sorry im still very bitter about all of this. I just dont get it...
Just because they are not viewing "porn" on the computer, doesn't mean clean. You feel like he is faking it. Trust your instinct.
A sex addict can often times pull up scarily accurate recall of memories of acting out. For my SAH, just the thought of a woman at walmart with cleavage that he had convinced himself "wanted" him earlier in the day, was enough for his own private shower time. SOrry to be blunt, but I never realized how insidious it can be.
The computer and porn are only tools for the addict to get their fix. If those are gone, they can find replacements. Or not even need to; it's in their head and NO ONE can do anything with that porn but them.
I came to find out that my SAH never wanted sex because he spent time M'bating instead.
The long term very very complicated answer is that sex with a wife is intimate (or supposed to be) and that is the LAST thing a SA is into. INtimacy disorder is what some call Sex addiction.
But he's NOT a CSAT? He is very involved in the SA recovery community here. Has really helped WH and his advice seems in line with Carnes?
What do you guys think? Or should I even concern myself with this??
This is comical- I just realized yesterday that I am co- dependent! I am going to start going to COSA mtgs next week.
When has an SA 'recovered?"
Recovering or In Recovery refers to an addict seeking treatment and actively working a program to become and remain sober. White knuckling it doesn't count. Going through the motions but not doing any real recovery work, doesn't count. Finding a counselor that will let you get away without doing any real recovery work, doesn't count.
Sober means having no sexual behavior with anyone (even one's self) other than one's spouse or committed partner.
Ideally, an SA will be BOTH. But very early in recovery it's possible to be "in recovery" but not yet be sober. Many SAs "slip" and break sobriety and have to start over. Some never get sober.
I feel like he is faking it-and he's stopped going to counseling. But he's faking it so well that he's convinced himself that he has "recovered."
The positive changes he has made are wonderful and you shouldn't negate them, however, he's on thin ice and he will fall through eventually. He cannot "recover" from SA and he certainly cannot be in recovery if he's not seeking treatment and working a program.
who doesn't want to have sex with me EVER.
We are generally happy-but I just don't trust it. Is that normal?
And, I kind of feel like-if all he had to do to quit watching porn 20 hours/week and wanting to sleep with strangers-was to go to a SA counselor a few times-WHY DIDN'T HE DO IT BEFORE NOW????
They use SA as a get out of jail free card and then all is supposed to be magically better.
too trusting BW is right. An absence of evidence of looking at porn means nothing. The many, many, many ways that SAs act out is such a long and varied list that it would be ridiculous to even try to list them. He carries the chemical in his brain and all he needs is a mental image and he's set.
MoreThanMe, read the books I recommend if you haven't already and find an IC for yourself. I don't know what to tell you about the counselor your husband is seeing. You're right, he's not a CSAT but he seems to be able to "talk the talk" but I dunno... I just get a bad vibe. He's a really good salesman. His website and the way it's worded makes me uneasy. I don't know how to describe it other than that. It's a gut feeling. If your husband has or is quitting counseling anyway, perhaps it's time to set a boundary and ask that he see a CSAT.
Hope that helps.
ETA: I just stumbled onto this video on MSN quite by accident. I've seen this entire program and it's actually pretty good and not full of misinformation.
[This message edited by 7yrsbetrayed at 3:24 AM, October 16th (Saturday)]
[This message edited by mitehvblonitpa at 5:53 PM, October 16th (Saturday)]
1. While he's made great strides towards recovery--He is an active SA.
2. If he doesn't begin receovery in earnest-he willa ct out in a bigger and more reckless way.
3. I am hopelessly co-dependant.
1. COSA for me this week.
2. IC (i think i am going to find an IC who is fluent in co-d of SA??)
3. I need to establish boundaries. It's hard for me to tell the difference btwn boundaries and co-d behavior at this point. (I have threatened-cried-begged him to go to counseling-so, co-D-and it didn't work! )
THANKS! I love SI-it saved my sanity this weekend.
That as soon as I figured out the difference between co-d and boundaries-I would be laying down boundaries.
That I wasn't sure of what my boundaries were-but I knew that his entering active recovery would be what I needed to feel safe having him in my home was one.
That his not looking as porn was a step in the right direction-a huge step but that ANY sexual conduct that wasn't a part of an intimate relationship-i.e. our marriage-WAS ACTING OUT.
That it was just going to get worse until he dealt with it--that he would act out in an even worse way if he didn't get help.
That I was going to COSA.
I KNEW he was going to be defensive and try to tell me he was 'fine' that he was doing all the right things.....
He said "do they have childcare at the COSA/SA meetings?" (meaning can he go to the SA mtg)
THEN (THIS.this. is what freaked me out...)
I said that I know he liked his IC but that his IC wasn't a CSAT and that he didn't involve me in any part of it....
saWH said: "well, I'm not sure he was a good fit"
saWH: "I'm not sure he can see through bullshit"
[This message edited by MoreThanMe at 9:40 PM, October 18th (Monday)]
One question for the BS here...............what made you stay with the SA? I just don't see any good coming out of it.
[This message edited by mitehvblonitpa at 3:47 PM, October 22nd (Friday)]
what made you stay with the SA? I just don't see any good coming out of it.
At first I stayed because he gaslighted me. Then I stayed because I had no other choice (stay at home mom with no good prospects for supporting myself.) Then after he got into recovery I stayed because he was in recovery. Once he got sober, I stayed because I realized he was still the man I wanted.
If your SA will seek recovery and get sober and stay sober, there is hope. You both need a lot of therapy but there is hope if you both want it and work at it.
List of resources for Spouses/Partners of SA
This is the advice and list of resources I give to all members newly dealing with a possible or confirmed SA partner. This is all good advice even if you don't stay together. If you don't educate yourself about SA and codependency you're very likely to end up with another addict partner.
Educate yourself about sexual addiction.
First and foremost you should read these books:
"Mending a Shattered Heart: A Guide for Partners of Sex Addicts" by Stefanie Carnes.
"Deceived: Facing Sexual Betrayal, Lies and Secrets" by Claudia Black PhD
"Your Sexually Addicted Spouse: How Partners Can Cope and Heal" by Barbara Steffens and Marsha Means
His best hope for recovery is for him to seek treatment with a CSAT (Certified Sex Addiction Therapist) Here is a resource to find CSATs by zip code:
You might also want to start on that website to find a good therapist for yourself. He has to work his recovery on his own and even if he doesn't get help you'll need counseling to recover from the trauma of being married to a sex addict. And believe me, it IS a trauma. You need to find counselors who are experts on SA otherwise you're in for a world of confusion and pain. (This is my opinion based on experience)
This is Dr Patrick Carnes' website. He is *the* expert on SA.
If your husband faces his sex addiction and seeks treatment he'll most likely be directed to a 12-Step group. This is the one I recommend. If you look at their site you'll also find information for yourself that may be helpful. (I personally recommend SA not SAA because SAA is too lax in their definition of healthy sexual behavior. This is my opinion.)
http://www.recoverynation.com is an excellent online community with online recovery workshops for both the SA and the spouse. (This should not replace seeing a CSAT (see below) and going to SA meetings (see above) for the sex addict but is a great addition to those things.)
http://www.candeocan.com This is an excellent source of information. They focus on what they call "porn addiction" however, there is no such thing, it is ALL sex addiction. The info on their site is so good that I still recommend it with the explanation that "porn" addiction is in fact "sex" addiction.
To fully understand SA you both need to do some reading. If he doesn't face his addiction you should still do the reading to help yourself and decide what you want. I don't advise women to stay with SAs who are not in recovery and who are not sober.
I recommend for the partner (in addition to the 3 above):
"Don't Call It Love: Recovery From Sexual Addiction" by Patrick Carnes (I recommend you read this after you've read "Mending a Shattered Heart" and the others, but not before.)
For the SA:
"Out of the Shadows: Understanding Sexual Addiction" by Patrick Carnes
(I don't recommend you read this book, but it would be an excellent read for your husband to start if he's willing to face his addiction, while you read "Mending a Shattered Heart")
Many SAs have a serious porn habit, this book "Porn Nation" by Michael Leahy, would be a good book for the SA. Mr. Leahy is a recovering sex addict who had a serious porn addiction that cost him pretty much everything before he finally hit bottom. (I don't recommend that wives read this book at first. It's too triggery for "just found outs")
Sadly, a really helpful post regarding boundaries and consequences has long since been lost. Here is a link to a website with good info on it:
This is going to be vital for you going forward. You cannot force him to seek treatment and you cannot control him but you do have a right to set boundaries to keep yourself safe.
P.S. If you read through the thread from the start and look for my posts I've shared quite a lot about the turning point and why I stayed.
[This message edited by 7yrsbetrayed at 9:45 PM, October 22nd (Friday)]
Is it almost a given that someone that has multiple As is pretty much an addict?