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User Topic: Long Term Affair... Part 18
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 7:57 AM, July 29th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Paper Roses and NoFun - I agree 100 % with both of you. I am 57 and feel like my H stole my best years from me too. I honestly cannot say that I would have left back then had I found out, but I feel I was in a better place to start over than I am in now. I was in a wonderful research internship at a large hospital that I absolutely loved and would have pursued this as a career if I had known. Instead, I let this chance slip by me thinking I owed my family my total devotion. This is the one big resentment that I still feel toward my H. Even if I hadn't D'ed him then, I think I would have realized that I needed to take advantage of this opportunity as a means of insurance and security for myself if I had known about his A.
NoFun - I am so sorry to hear about your H's CA. I know how you feel though. I am sending you a PM. ((NoFun))

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 7:57 AM, July 29th (Thursday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
let it be me
♀ Member
Member # 29103
Default  Posted: 8:01 AM, July 29th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((ats)))
(((tryn)))
(((honest)))
(((miracle)))
(((((tribe)))))

Thanks to y'all for your responses... i have reached out to my church family for some 'accountability partners' for my WH and received some very gracious offers of 'distraction' from them as well. we are starting a weekly 'girls night out'... not necessarily drinking and stupid stuff... just some hang time with other wives/mothers with NO TALK ABOUT THE MENFOLK! ... I am seriously looking forward to that... have signed up to volunteer as many hours as possible at our local child advocacy center, as well....

my IC gave me some great advice on how to get this situation out of a "his issues/my issues" thing and into a larger perspective...

All I am asking WH to do is what God expects WH to do in a marriage... So it is not ME that the WH can blame, but God.... takes it out of my hands and places it in God's in whom I have faith, trust and hope....


Me/BS/40~Him/fWH/42 Both in IC
MC put 'on hold' till my IC agrees
DD~07/19/10 R on hold till my IC agrees
BP1 DX 10/2011&Complex PTSD 7/1998
"There are no mistakes in tomorrow"

Posts: 337 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Eastern NC
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 8:13 AM, July 29th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

G'morning Tribe,

Trust was a topic at the Atsenaotie house last night. For me, restoring trust in FWW is a bit like the leap of faith people describe in their religious beliefs. There is no evidence of any current involvement with an OM, she is remorseful, honest (?), and I see changes in her thinking and behavior, so I trust her.

I also trust me. In the past, I saw all of the signs of her A’s, but I willingly allowed her to explain everything away. I am now skeptical of explanations, and she is aware of this. There are situations, perfectly normal and reasonable, that would have been acceptable pre-dday, but that she now avoids to prevent any possibility of suspicion.

As for the “?” behind honesty above, I trust her when she says I know everything of significance now, but, I also trusted her when she would say the same thing prior to April 27. This leaves me with a fear. If I do not know everything of significance, and I find out through some means (OM, family member, recovered document) it is over. I will not do this again. I know it frustrates FWW that I remind her of this often, but I really do not want to go through more months (years?) of R only to have it all torn apart because she is still hiding something. That sounds like I do not trust her, but I do. It is just now I know that people, including FWW, can betray a trust.

In fact, maybe knowing that she can betray me is what makes it trust. I trust my employer to pay me every month; I expect the sun to rise every morning. Prior to dday it was an expectation that she would never betray me, now I trust that she won’t.

--Ats (I better start working on that paycheck)


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Paper Roses
♀ Member
Member # 19336
Default  Posted: 8:19 AM, July 29th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

letitbeme,
I went back to see what is going on with you but could find only this one post. I just want to say it sounds as if you are trying to let go of taking responsibility for your H and others...and i applaud you.


Me-50-FBW-
He-45-FWh- sober 4 years

Self-deception- is literally a matter of deceiving oneself- and thus raises unique questions.
How can one deceive himself-unless he already knows-what it is that he is deceiving himself about?


Posts: 623 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: Los Angeles
Paper Roses
♀ Member
Member # 19336
Default  Posted: 8:24 AM, July 29th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No fun,
I wish I had known...10-12 years ago! I would absolutely have left!

I would not have stayed with him knowing he was cheating on me...back then. I was much younger then and yes, so many different decisions would have been made.

Had he been honest.


Me-50-FBW-
He-45-FWh- sober 4 years

Self-deception- is literally a matter of deceiving oneself- and thus raises unique questions.
How can one deceive himself-unless he already knows-what it is that he is deceiving himself about?


Posts: 623 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: Los Angeles
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 8:32 AM, July 29th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow, while I was slow typing and fixing coffee, it got busy.

nofun, sorry you and your H have the added stress of surgery and possible Cx. hugs to you. I think I read somewhere it is important to probe at the stitched up surgery site periodically with a finger to ensure it is healing well

Interesting discussion about had we known about the LTA's sooner. For us, if she had ‘fessed up in 2007, or I had grown a pair and gone with my gut, I could have prevented the 2+ years with OM#2 and the involvement with BIL. We also could have sold the house for little or no loss at that time and managed the finances of a D much easier. Oh well, that is all water over the dam and just a part of my "New Reality"

Let it be me, happy to read you are getting great support irl. I started volunteering too after dday. It helped rebuild my self-image, and was a great distraction.

fnf, your talk of work possibilities missed triggers for me a bit. There have been three times that I have passed on a great opportunity because she did not want to make the move. Later, it ends up that except for one, she would have loved the area and wishes we had gone. Oh well, just more water…

NJGal480, if you are luring, the book came in yesterday and I have started reading.

UKgirl, how are you doing? You never did say how your H’s all day golf outing turned out.

Speaking of books. We have been reading and doing some tantric exercises to help FWW develop intimacy, and link it with sex. One of the books is Soul Sex, and it has been very powerful in speaking to FWW and helping her on her journey. It has a lot of advice and activities for increasing intimacy between a couple, and building a life-long loving relationship.

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 9:27 AM, July 29th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nofun: I am so sorry to hear about your H's tumor. You will be in my prayers. I can imagine the myriad of emotions you are going through right now!! The karma bus hit HIM, not you.
Perhaps this is the impetus that will help him really "get it".

Ats, that was very well put: Trust vs expectations is the key issue I think. I think prior Dday we had BOTH about WS. Now the expectation is gone. Maybe that's what hurts too. We EXPECTED that WS would take our feelings into account. We expected that they loved us enough to set up barriers to OP. I know I did. I think we all could have had "opportunities" if we were open to it.
The trust came from the expectation...we gave of ourselves freely and wholely our heart and soul. We truly believed when we trusted then we expected that this person we loved so much to do this would be careful with our hearts. To me, I felt that enough RESPECT for me, as the mother of WH's children not to do something so horrendous to me.
Of course, these are all FEELINGS that we have intellectualized, but deep seated feelings that we based our trust and expectations.

Ats put it very well. After a LTA, the expectation is gone, but perhaps the trust can be there. For example, I trust that my DS 15 will do the right thing, I trust he will make his curfew, BUT I also realize that he may mess up, he may come in late. I trust he will TRY to do his best, and I have to impose consequences if he messes up.
Maybe this is why Trust is a gift. You are saying to WS: "I'm letting you know that I'm letting my guard down. I'm becoming vulnerable to you. I am allowing you the chance that you might mess up again. But the consequences of you betraying this trust or not only for you, but for ME. You betraying my trust will hurt me very deeply and I will not allow that to ever happen again. Take this gift and use it wisely. "

As to whether or not I would have left years ago, Hell YES!! I was in a better place and stronger and younger to rebuild. Years have gone by that I invested all of myself into this relationship and because of the LTA and the behavior that accompanied it, I was sucked dry. I feel like I was used up, and my expiration date is past.

I know we can start all over again if need be, but it is more difficult now than when one is younger.

{{{tribe}}}}}


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
njgal480
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Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 10:09 AM, July 29th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all...

Ats... I hope you find the book helpful...

Nofun..so sorry to hear about your H diagnosis...my prayers are with you!

Now..about the trust discussion...

I am definitely of the mind that my H will never have another affair....ever...he saw the destruction it caused, in my case...I told everyone...so our children, family , friends know... if he were to go there again he knows that he would be letting everyone down not just me! (IMHO that is one of the benefits of exposing the affair...much more accountability).

Now..if I had to go through what Forgive...did ..with my H away for a week (that hasn't happened since d-day)...I think that eventhough on a logical level I do not believe he would cheat while I was away...on a subconscious level there could be some triggering...
I think it's our PISD (post infidelity stress disorder)..we are still experiencing PTSD symptoms!

Like someone who almost drowned in a pool as a child... some people can never go back in the water again...others learn to manage the fear and go swimming again...but have momentary triggers to overcome...

And finally, about the discussion: 'If I had found out about the affair sooner would I have left.....'

well... I think that thinking is just counterproductive...
we can do that about our entire lives!
If only we knew then what we know now! Boy, would we have made a ton of different decisions!
We would have never married our spouses if we could have forseen the future with them!

But, seriously, when it comes to when is a good age to divorce a spouse after infidelity....
we see it all on SI.....

should the young 20 something woman with a baby at home divorce the cheating spouse because she is young enough to meet someone new? or should she stay because she has a new baby that needs a dad and...because the couple is so young they have the opportunity to really learn from this experience early on in their marriage and create a truly authentic marriage out of the wreckage!

Or...if you ask the middle aged mom of 3..age 40 or so... she will say that she decided to stay because of her children, because of finances, and the house and the family....and she wishes that she were older...maybe in her late 50's when this happened because by then she would have the empty nest...no kids to worry about...her finances would be better as she could go back to work full time and the college tuition would no longer be an issue.....
so she believes that if she were older...then she would have left the marriage....

and all of us of a certain age??? well we believe that we need to stay because we are too old to start over....and if we were younger when this happened well then we would have DEFINITELY left...kids or no kids...
hmmmm...

I think that when it comes to infidelity I no longer judge anyone's decison to stay...especially my own!

I know that in my innocent pre D-day life I had VERY strong opinions about infidelity! I was certain that it would be a deal breaker for me! Especially after all the crap I had already dealt with in terms of alcohol addiction, etc.
For example...I did not approve of Hillary Clinton's decision to stay with Bill!
I was very balck and white in my thinking then..

Not any more...I realize that everything is actually one big gray area...

and now.. I totally understand why Hillary stayed and you know what? I think her decision was so much better for her and her family....
as opposed to say Ivana Trump who divorced...and is living a very different life... much less classy, much more desperate and erratic behavior..

and me... I never would have guessed that I would be the woman to reconcile after any kind of affair let alone an LTA!! and meanwhile..here I am...

so...I think that there is no right age to reconcile after infidelity.

I think the main ingredient is a truly remorseful spouse that is dedicated to saving the marriage.
If that is in place then the couple stands a good chance of reconciling...but, as we all know it is a long and winding road ....



Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
trynhard
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Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 10:12 AM, July 29th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Forgivenotforget… How did you do that? Is it really possible? Trust is a great topic. Trust is not a feeling. Trust is a choice. What we decide to do and not to do is the real question to ask.
When we make a decision to trust.. this is what we do.
- We decided not to place a GPS in the car or on the cell phone
- We don’t follow them around to checking up
- We don’t place a VAR in the car or around them
- We allow them to go golfing, go out for a drink with a friend, spends some alone time.
- Open up to tell them your inner most personal things.
- Sharing one checking accout.


Some might question my boundary of me not allowing my W a personal close male friend as not being “trusting”. This might be true. That is my choice I have made that protects my own happiness. I think choices to trust seem to come and go… It’s not that I don’t think she can have a healthy friendship with a man. The problem is me. I have feelings I don’t like when I see this, I get nervous feelings, uneasiness, fear that hurt will come again, my stomach can feel queasy, it is uncomfortable for me because my mind reminds me of bad feelings. I cannot help those feelings… they are what they are. So, I choose not to have those feelings and made a boundary.
If my W chooses to start a male relationship again, if I get a “gut” feeling by boundary is being crossed, I will make it know those feelings I mentioned above. If my W continues and still chooses to develop that male relationship… I am going to say, “Since you continue to not to help me feel safe, Not feel good, I will not live life like that. I will visit a attorney so we can resolve our M. I am ready too with solid conviction this time.

BTW… I have another boundary. I will not be cussed nor belittled in any way. If I am treated that way, I am going to address it. EVERYTIME! I am not going to be treated like that. My own boundary is not to cuss my W or cut her in any way and I expect the same treatment.

And Ladies.. When my W started her LTA, I was 40. Now I am 49… I’ve accepted the fact that I can find a sweet lady in the 40’s or 50’s if needed… I think physical attraction is important but for me inner beauty is what I would be seeking. No fear ladies…. Statistics have many good men thrown away by a spouse over lust… the “hopeless romantic”


Anyway… have a great day.

[This message edited by trynhard at 10:20 AM, July 29th (Thursday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
njgal480
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Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 10:33 AM, July 29th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tryin...
I do agree with you.
Eventhough on one level I trust my husband...
I also have rules....
absolutely no Facebook or classmates.com for him...he has 'networked' enough for two lifetimes!
no more drinking ever!
he has promised lifetime attendance at AA... it is possible...his AA sponsor has been attending meetings for 25 yrs.
another demand of mine... no porn ..ever...
I used to be somewhat lax about it...in the old days of Penthouse magazine etc...
but, thats how I found out about the LTA... I found some rather tame porn on the computer but it started my monitoring his computer usage and the rest of the story unraveled...
so, thats another promise he has made to me...no porn...
and... the friends of the opposite sex?
well.. that would be a big NO....
he also has cut ties with all of his former toxic drinking buddies and all of the toxic co-workers that hung with him and the MOW....

so... LOL...after my big speech about trust...
I guess I have trust because of all of these new 'rules' that we now have in place.......


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
Allgoodnamesgone
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Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 11:33 AM, July 29th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry guys - I only have time for a "quickie", here goes;

Fun: so sorry to hear about your h - hope everything turns up good.

He was and is still a coward in my eyes. He wasn't "that into me then" but after realizing he was going to lose me "he's into me now?" Hmmmmm He says he never realized how much he really loved me until he was about to lose me

My H said the same thing.
I also wonder how someone this selfish is now suddenly ok with being faithful to someone who he now knows is disgusted by him and cannot love him the way I used to...


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 5:09 PM, July 29th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nofun. Sorry to hear the news about your H. I will be thinking of both of you and I hope this goes in a positive way.

Forgive. I don't know if a person can ever completly trust after a LTA. Look at your own name for a clue. If you do not forget, can you totally trust again? I have my boundaries. My W has said that she wishes she could get back into a job like she had before. I am sure she says this more because she was good at the job and it is better paying situation. I have told her that she could go back on the road but she would have to do it after we got a D. Her off by herself in motels with the freedom to do whatever she wants! That did not work out the last time, why would I think it would now?

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 7:49 PM, July 29th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the quickie Allgoodnamesgone
I also wonder how someone this selfish is now suddenly ok with being faithful to someone ...

FWW and I have had this discussion, a lot. What she tells me is that she thought I did not love her and did not care. In the days after dday she was shocked by the level of my hurt and emotion. With IC she has come to understand her mis-perceptions about many things, including me. She loved me, became angry with me when she was not "happy" in the M, resentment built over my not "making" her happy, attention from OM "made" her happy. She is now ashamed for all the years of our M and her life wasted blaming others for her anger.

Hi olddipstick. Did you see the video of the 300 alligator feeding frenzy manking the rounds? I thought of you

If you do not forget, can you totally trust again?

Yes at least I hope so. Knowing everything I know now about FWW, her issues, the signs, my issues, I should NOT have trusted FWW before dday. She is actually much more worthy of trust now, and I also will trust my gut from now on.

It is interesting that in this thread and others BS state there is a good chance they would have left the M had the WS told everything at the beginning years earlier. Yet WS say they are afraid to say it all at once, so they TT, to keep us from leaving. Maybe what they are doing, as much as I hate what the TT did to me, makes some sense. I tell FWW I wish she had told me everything the first month after dday when I was already numb and had not begun recovery. Maybe if she had it would have been so over-whelming I would have left. Don't know the answer to that.

iwam and UKGirl, I hope you ladies are having a good life just now and too busy to spend time here kvetching with the rest of us.

NJGal, FWW is beating me through the book. She is half way through and it is depressing her, the reality of what she did to herself, her kids, and our M.

Somebody in another thread in another forum used me as an example.

atsenaotie just posted about how his WW participated in PA's for 4 years with 3 OM and they are reconciling! Stories like that tell me one thing...R can happen in ANY circumstance...

I know it was meant to support the concept of R for a poster who was questioning, but I am not sure how I feel about being a worse case. I know many have much more involved issues they are delaing with, but to be the if he can do it anyone can guy, is a little unsettling. I am fortunate that while often slower than I want, FWW is doing that hard work we all talk about.

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 9:26 PM, July 29th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ats....
That's great that your wife is interested in reading the book. It will give her some insight as to the depth of the pain that infidelity causes....

Allgood...
you are about 2 yrs post d-day... that was actually my worst year... when I was the most down on my husband and was the most ambivalent about reconciling...
hang in there...
and about the how they can suddenly make such a big change in thinking? well..think of it like you would with alcoholics...
it can be their way of life for years...they will wreck their marriages, lose jobs and worse and still defend their right to drink...and then this same person becomes sober...goes to AA etc. and given some time in sobriety...they will look back and not even recognize the other person they were. They now hate drinking and everything connected with it..etc. etc.
and...they also love and value all of the things they took for granted in the past...
I think waking up from the 'fog' of infidelity is a similar phenomenon...
while they're in the middle of it ..it seems to make sense...once they step away from it they see the affair and affair partner in a completely different light and see their spouses and their marriages in a completely different way...


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 10:21 PM, July 29th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hi all, have been busy and the few times i had a few minutes the site and the pc went to war....i hate when that happens, i never know if it is my computer or the site is having some issues, or both....anyways...

interesting discussion of trust, and if you knew way back when....well first off, since i don't have a before, i can safely say i would never have gone through with the relationship from the getgo.....do i regret the relationship...no, not really....i have my 3 kids, i dont regret any of the decisions and choices i have made and can safely live with all of them....pfm cannot say that, pfm made his choices that have certainly affected me and my kids....and as that old saying goes,he made his bed and now he's gotta lie in it...with whom, well i guess that would be his choice, but it won't be me...

trust....i think if he had done what he was supposed to do i would have started to trust again, not 100 % blind trust, that was destroyed, but a trust that someone earns...that someone works for, that someone proves that (s)he is worthy of it....and like tryn says, trust with new boundaries....boundaries have always been in place, just some new ones added because of the breaking of the trust...but sadly for me i will not get the opportunity to prove that...


all of you have been given the gift of having a before...this is something i dont have....and when reading about your marriages before, how if you knew then what you know now.....hell everyone wished they had a miracle ball that could tell them all they need to know about the people in their lives, but that is not going to happen.....and no matter how much you go back in time you cannot change any of it, so instead of wishing what may be or could have been, (a small trigger for me, this was something pfm did with ow#1) how about dealing with what was and what is.....no one wins at the game of "what if"...woulda ..coulda ...shoulda.....all of it is garbage...useless garbage...and needs to be dealt with accordingly...throw it away...

o.k. now for some other stuff that i wrote before i had pc/site issues.....

paper roses:

I am just giving him some space from my stuff.


isn't your stuff his doing?...shouldn't he help you with your stuff from his doing?

i get the feeling that you are almost protecting him, and i am not quite sure from what.....i could be really off base, i sometimes am


fnf: maybe a change of perspective might be in order here....but first a few questions...

has he given you any reason since way back when to distrust him?

has he said or done anything to put up the antennae?

has anyone else said or done anything to make you question his trustworthiness?

this is your final hurdle, and its a biggie....but is it more about trusting him or letting yourself go?....letting yourself basically relax within your sich......he is not cheating now....and yes i know he lied so well, but now you are different then you were then, you have changed as well as he has....should it happen again the odds of him being able to pull it off are slim....


ats i saw that video too of the many alligators, and i too thought of you dip..

let it be: its is wonderful that you have so much to distract you...do you have any support that can help you through your issues that will arise when dealing with this whole mess...it is really important to have both...unfortunately we cannot be distracted permamently and dealing with the hurt has to happen in order for us to heal and truly move on and forward in our lives....


fun: keep us posted on your husband...i am still praying for you both...and that karma bus may just be giving you both something to bring you closer, something to help you realize what is really important, especially since your ws is remorseful, and is trying...you both have a wonderful a family together, you loved each other and hopefully still do, you have a before, a solid before....maybe this is a message, maybe this is a wake up call for you both to realize what you could have together and do have together...perspective can change anything and everything....((((fun)))))


ats: i love that your wife is reading the book at such a speed, it shows so much to the fact that she is facing herself, her shit and is trying to do whatever she can to repair the damage and help you heal, and help herself heal....


honest: did you register for that test?


njgal: i loved your post, especially when i read your pov before and what they are now...of course it is because i can so relate... ...i too was black and white, and for the most part i still am....i too thought any cheating would be an immediate deal-breaker...and then i found out he cheated and the depths of his cheating, not to mention the other betrayals with his foo and with money....and still i would have stayed and tried...so either i am still black and white and just stupid, or i have more grey then i ever thought...but then again, i am still black and white...i just think that when an entire family is involved you try everything you can before you destroy the family unit, because its no longer just "me"....if it were just me i think i would have ended it immediately without blinking an eye...

like you said there are so so many factors in deciding what to do...

((((tribe))))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
Paper Roses
♀ Member
Member # 19336
Default  Posted: 3:19 AM, July 30th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I want a miracle, "isnt my stuff his doing"..Yes it is and he should be dealing with it and you know what..you're right1 (BTW am trying to figure out how to use the quote thing but don't think I did it right)!

Last night I woke him to tell him I was hurting and he was very supportive although he did not completely awaken..BUT.. in the morning the first thing he said was that he was so sorry for hurting me and that he understood what I was feeling last night and he would give anything to take the feelings away. So, he is getting it. I wish his saying that COULD make everything better..it helps as much as anything can help but what is left is the hole that will always be there I suppose...

I believe the questions that followed...were for me?

Has he cheated since d-day? No, he has not. I have no reason at all to believe he is currently. He is a recovering alcoholic, sober for almost five years now and is in IC and is working on his FOO issues and I am fairly confident that he is NOT being unfaithful and has not intention of being unfaithful.

Why do I not trust him? Because he has the capacity to lie to himself and to convince himself that it is OK to do what he did. He lied to himself and to me 6 years! To me that is so astonishing that it seems only someone quite deranged would be capable of such a thing! He has made a lot of progress and I think he has changed dramatically but still...

I just think anyone capable of that level of ..disengagement from their conscience...is not someone to be trusted. I might be wrong but if I am he would be the exception not the rule. I will just watch very carefully...as we all will no doubt.

My emptiness of late is that I have been dreaming of how it felt to feel safe and loved ...as I did before I knew..before d-day. It is cruel to remember. I really had forgotten. So long ago..almost five years now...coming up on August 31st. I was absolutely convinced that he loved and adored me and I would never have believed that he would cheat on me in a million years. Until he told me himself that he was in love with another woman. I wake up feeling such loss.


Me-50-FBW-
He-45-FWh- sober 4 years

Self-deception- is literally a matter of deceiving oneself- and thus raises unique questions.
How can one deceive himself-unless he already knows-what it is that he is deceiving himself about?


Posts: 623 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: Los Angeles
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 6:07 AM, July 30th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NJGirl: thank you for your encouragement. Actually, the 1st anniversary of DDay is coming up in a few weeks. And, it really is amazing, this roller coaster ride.
I spent the last week or so essentially avoiding my H, busying myself with other things, focusing on the kids, not calling him, etc.
I know he noticed & asked me what was wrong a few times and (Tryn cover your ears) I told him everything was fine because honestly, it's the same old shit what's wrong and talking to my H only pisses me off more. At one point I did tell him that I appreciated his concern, etc. and I was aware that I was distancing myself from him, but I just have some stuff to work on my own. Yesterday he followed me around like a puppy and he finally told me to come over to him & he hugged me, asked me what was wrong, things followed from there & today I feel better.
Don't get me wrong, it's not like a cloud lifted & I'm waltzing around like Snow White with all the little forest animals engaging in song or anything, but I'm not worrying about how to best avoid my H. So, that is good.
I am extremely comfortable with distancing myself when I feel vulnerable - it's a lifelong pattern I really just discovered recently. A work in progress.

Anyhoo...

Paperroses:

Why do I not trust him? Because he has the capacity to lie to himself and to convince himself that it is OK to do what he did. He lied to himself and to me 6 years! To me that is so astonishing that it seems only someone quite deranged would be capable of such a thing!

Yes. This is a problem for me as well. Short of a lobotomy, I don't know what to do about that. Again, it's the struggle between heart & head that torments me.

O well - that's it for now -boss lady says its time for Dora the explorer.
Peace all.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 6:32 AM, July 30th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What she tells me is that she thought I did not love her and did not care...... OM "made" her happy. She is now ashamed for all the years of our M and her life wasted blaming others for her anger.

ats - this is what FWH told me also. Too bad he didn't tell me how he felt before he decided to have his A. I think it was a way to justify what he was doing because if and when I wasn't happy, I used to speak up. Granted it, it went on deaf ears, but I put it out there.

Ats...what is the book your W is reading?

Well, we are off to the doctors today for a consultation. I am scared. I had a total meltdown Tuesday night like I've never had before. I think it was everything from the past year, this with H, and then Tuesday morning one of my contractors tried to hang himself. That was the straw that sent me over the edge.

thank you tribe for being here.

((((Tribe))))


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 8:30 AM, July 30th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

oh fun to say that your plate is full would be an understatement....life if like that though, everything seemingly happening at once....keep the faith though, we are here for you, you are not alone in your quest or in your life....you have an amazing family that i am sure will come through for both of you right now and always.....


paper roses: those questions were actually for fnf (forgivenotforget) but they are valid questions for anyone long enough in their journey to reconcilliation....

and before i forget paper roses, the threads in the i can relate forum only go to 50 pages, after that a mod has to open a new one for us, so don't panic when we hit that mark, just look for part 19 and that will be the new home...

and for the quotey thingys...highlight the text you want to put into the quote box then click on the right on "quote" then walla, you should have a box, you won't see it though til you post it....you will see the word quote in parantheses...(i don't think i spelled that right) but i think or rather i hope you get the drift...


allgood:

Don't get me wrong, it's not like a cloud lifted & I'm waltzing around like Snow White with all the little forest animals engaging in song or anything,

you crack me up....i love your humor

i can understand the distancing thing, it serves 2 purposes....1st for a bit of protection (at least in your mind) and 2nd it helps you regroup...at least that what it does for me...and sometimes giving yourself that little bit of distance helps clear your sight so to speak....

allgood, instead of telling him your fine, i like what you did end up telling him,

At one point I did tell him that I appreciated his concern, etc. and I was aware that I was distancing myself from him, but I just have some stuff to work on my own

this is really good, its not telling him an untruth, which btw if we expect it from them we need to give it to them as well...and it takes the pressure off of him in a way, yet he still knows he is the cause....i like it very much..

and i think i love your daughter, she sounds like she has your spunk and a huge personality..


(((tribe)))


eta: ok so much for understanding the quotey thingy...the quotey gods have sent my post into quotey chaos!!!

[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 10:41 AM, July 30th (Friday)]


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 8:38 AM, July 30th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi nofun, sorry to read so many things are just piling up for you.

The book we are reading is Transcending Post-infidelity Stress Disorder (PISD): The Six Stages of Healing by Dennis C. Ortman. NJGal480 recommended it to me. It is for the BS to understand our feelings, why WS would do what they did, the impacts of the A, and how to heal. I think FWW worries that I will find a book that will fill me with nutty ideas like SI does and so she reads in self defense. Really though, she does seem to be taking these things to heart. She confirmed to me that my actions, questions, etc. are all in line with what she is reading in the books. She wants to forget and move on; it is a painful period for her to remember. I think she wants a book to say we should both just look forward and move on. I am pretty much doing what it says, sometimes better than others. I still think about them, what was done, what was said, what was felt. The rational I know none of those matters, because that was then. There is still a part of me though that wants to know, wants to poke at the sore tooth to see if it still hurts.

Too bad he didn't tell me how he felt before he decided to have his A.

We have talked about this a lot. FWW said she did not want to tell me how she felt, how angry she was because she wanted my approval and did not want to hurt me. So instead, she had an affair She admits it does not make any sense, but she has been consistent in this explanation. When she would tell me how she felt, it was after the pressure blew up and she would just explode. I would be trying to make sense of what she was saying (yelling) relative to the issue at hand. I realize now I was getting 3 - 4 months of built up resentment being unleashed on the kitchen cabinet doors being left open. From my side, I did tell her what I wanted; shared information on introverts and her response was "it's always about you and what you want".

allgoodnamesaregone, I saw FWW and I in your post.

I spent the last week or so essentially avoiding my H, ... not calling him, etc.
I know he noticed & asked me what was wrong a few times ... I told him everything was fine because honestly, it's the same old shit ... he finally told me to come over to him & he hugged me, asked me what was wrong, things followed from there & today I feel better.

We do this pattern. One is feeling off (honestly, this is me this morning) and rather than say something and ruin her day, or bring up the same old crap, we will just wait for it to pass and be OK. It almost never does, and we are always better after we talk, even if there is some tension.

Paper Roses,

Because he has the capacity to lie to himself and to convince himself that it is OK to do what he did.

That is my FWW too. I really am counting on the IC and MC and other work she is doing is removing this capacity, or at least her instinct to turn to it. She is showing signs of movement that direction. If I did not have hope that I would be able to trust her in the future, I would not have hope for R.

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

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