miracle. The sex thing is a on and off deal. Of course during the past few weeks I would not have done anything with her had she asked me to. A lot of the problem is the fact that we both have certain phyical problems with all this. Mostly due to age I guess.
Thanks for the fantasy advice. I have decided the boob size will be between mediun and large. I have put her age at 43 1/2. Now I am stuck on her hair color. Blond, brunette, or redhead? See, I really do suck at fantasy. BTW. According to the info you published about your fantasy, size does matter. Many of those regular size guys are not happy to hear this info. I do feel a little sorry for those poor guys.
tryn. I did not know you were so witty.
Hugs to the tribe.
Singles tour to europe? That sounds like fun. I would probably mess up and book the 18 to 25 age group tour. They would be fun to watch, but would not want much to do with gramps.
One of the problems with leaving to avoid the arguments is the fact that she will follow me. Even in her car. Her car will out run my truck! Yes she is so pissed at me that she wants to be with me. It is like I said before, it is the "I hate you/don't leave me." thing.
I am glad to hear that you are doing better today.
Tribe Now about all of us crashing at once. Hear this tribe. Since I am just a crazy old fart, my needs can just be put on the back burner. If everyone here crashes at once, I promise to uncrash and try to help everyone else get better. Boy that is a recipe for disaster. We may need to have a council with the tribal elders and appoint the job of savior to someone who actually makes sense when they post, and can spell.
We should put it together & send it to the mods to post with instructions to declare a state of emergency and post it if this thread goes more than 24 hours without someone posting.
Whew. I feel a lot better now that we have a back up plan.
And thanks to the recent rekindling of an argument my friend of 30 years and I had a few months ago that left our friendship by the roadside, I'm not even thinking about my H's A at all.
Dip: I know what you mean about your wife following you!! My mother should have been a detective. She would call me 5-6 times a day (before caller ID and answering machines), call all my friends (this is when I am married with 2 kids!!!), have the operator break into phone conversations to say it was an emergency, and when I didn't answer the phone, she'd show up on my doorstep to continue the argument.
It is next to impossible to deal with and very wearing.
I just realized today that not only did I marry a man like my charming alcoholic father (who was passive agressive, thanks for the link NJgal!), WH is also like my mother in many BPD traits plus NPD. No wonder he felt "at home" to me!! I didn't know any different.
One poster said in another thread that his wife had traits of NPD, BPD, ADD, etc, but all he knew was that she was messed up!!!
There is a "quote thread" in Fun and Games that is quite good. Some of ours should be put there for emergencies!!
But there is a balance. And see, Dip, you volunteered to hold the fort even if you were down!! This is what we all seem to do! We put others' needs before ours. But this is what I was taught was the right thing to do!
There must be a balance and I haven't found it and that's the problem. I either escape and don't tell people where I'm going or forget my cell phone (just to the store for example) or I give up myself completely and then get resentful and stew. A happy medium is what I must find!
July is a pretty shitty month for me. I canít seem to claim things back at the moment, itís too much effort. I had my birthday and the cards just lay in a pile on the mantelpiece. Theyíre still there, untouched. And next month is the time of their ďsummer sojournĒ when they would spend several days together. Now I know why we never went ďawayĒ away, just down to visit family for a few days. I would go at the beginning of the week, WH would join us for the weekend or so and then Iíd come home a few days after he did. He said he couldnít get the time off because the other directors with young children should have the August dates. What a load of shit. Still, this year weíre going to New Zealand but I canít get up any enthusiasm even though I donít suppose for a second they talked about holidaying there.
She also said that she wanted to end her life. I have heard this before and it is a hard thing to hear. It is such a mean and shitty thing to say to someone. I think it is one of the worst things you can do to someone who loves you.
Anyone seen ďThe Other ManĒ with Liam Neeson, Antonio Banderas and Laura Linney? Should be compulsory viewing for all WSís, esp WWís. Portrait of an incredibly selfish woman, although I donít think that is the way the viewer is supposed to see it.
Better go. Nearly lunchtime and Iím still in my dressing gown. FWH went off at 6am for golf. Another trigger. It was so easy and he was so casual about it. The lies just slid out from his mouth as easily as truth. Sorry folks Ė still overly self absorbed and introspective.
FWW sat next to me after I typed the above and we began over an hour of talking and reprocessing. We are both struggling and both progressing. She mentioned something and I triggered the first real hatred and loathing I have ever felt for OM#2. I wanted to kill him, to wipe the f*cking smile off his face he has in the pictures with my wife. I wanted direct physical contact. The reaction unnerved me some. I wonder what other deep emotions I still have buried?
We talked about our W anniversary on Tuesday. It was good for both of us to explain how we felt. We are not sure what it will represent; inertia, a new start, 2 decades of a M with good and awful?, but we will acknowledge the day and our R.
FWW worries that after we work through all of this I will wake-up one day and realize I never loved her I pointed out the irony that the reality is I woke up on day to realize she had never loved me, at least not for a long, long time.
This never got posted last night. I am finishing it this morning. Everyone is still sleeping, I have been to the grocery and I am preparing waffles with fresh fruit for breakfast. I have been ready to cry all morning after the emotions of last night. I love my wife so much, and I hate that I did not save her from this, and was not a better husband for her.
I do feel a little sorry for those poor guys.
Allgoodnamesgone, are you suggesting picking a fight with an old friend as a therapy and recovery technique?
Hi honesttoafault, your posts are sounding a bit better. Hope you are finding some things to enjoy.
nofun, I am glad you had the opportunity to see your H in a positive role. I think these sorts of things help to humanize our spouses after the demonizing from the A behavior.
trynhard, I just want to let you know how much I have appreciated your advice. Just last night I described to FWW about boundaries and needs, and how they are what holds a healthy M together.
Hi njgal480, iwam, lost heart2, forgivenotforget nothing to comment on, just didnít want to leave you out. I hope m334455ís vacation and draft revisions are going well.
Zone out, UKg, zone out. He says what he says and who fucking cares if he's lying or not. Fuckwit hasn't even phoned or sent a text. Twat.
eta - bashed the keyboard too hard so it sent before I was ready.
I will catch up. But I'm like a cat on a hot tin roof. Can't really concentrate.
[This message edited by UKgirl at 12:03 PM, July 24th (Saturday)]
Then WH has the gall to say that I'll be like this for 20 years that I will never let it drop that I will always be making him pay for it!!!!
My head is spinning. I can't think straight. Why do I feel like I'm wrong? I told him it hurt. He said he's been so good and being careful about what he says and does!!!!!
I was just trying to be civil about this. Yes, I triggered badly, I should have kept it to myself. I've been crying on and off all day.
Not only is he taking our house, giving some of MY stuff away, he took everything!!! and then tells me it's all about me and how good he is!!
I'm so sorry for the vent. I just felt I hit rock bottom today, and I know it's only the beginning of more and more stuff like this and it will never end. I wish there could be NC completely, but never to happen because of the kids. On top of all this, DS 15 is telling me "only 3 more years and I'm 18 and I can move out!!" It just hurts. It just makes me feel it's me.
WH told me his relationship with OW is "shabby" but he will NEVER divorce her after everything. What does that make me?????? If he will stay with her after all she's done, and ready to lose me....
It's not fantasy like everyone says with him, he lives with her and OC"s it's real life.
I'm so sorry.
UK girl and Ats you were talking about ending it. I know what you mean. Not to actually commit the deed, per se, but just not wanting to go on.
Damn damn damn.
Don't worry, I'm going to be ok, just venting and mourning and in sooooo much pain!!!
I love my kids too much.
[This message edited by honesttoafault at 9:05 PM, July 24th (Saturday)]
Hugs for you UKgirl...sorry that you are so sad and depressed...
Do you want to spend more time with your husband?
Would you prefer he not play golf?
If so, why not tell him. Would he change his plans for you?
and UKgirl, at some point it is reasonable to expect you spouse to get a clue. espessially a fws.
My fws has some wierdness going on today, and I am tired of being the emotional score keeper. If she has an issue she needs to raise it. I am no longer going through life monitoring my feelings and her's. I love her, out I need a spouse, not a frightened child.
it is a beautiful night after the storm, I am about ready to just run off shore fore the rest of the night.
btw, it is worth the extra $$ for 3D when watching Dispicable Me. I saw it with DS18 tonight.FWW slept all day with a headache. I am shocked that smokes are at $7 a pack
FWW is telling me everything is OK, so I am taking her at her word. After sleepinjg all day she is cleaning and changing bed sheets, that is typical behavior whe she is upset, but she tells me all is fine. I have no idea why I am wide awake at 0200. Coolers, bait, ice and rods are packed, it may be time to head out.
honesttoafault, it sounds like DS 15 has a fantasy that life with WS Dad would be "fun", compare to you and reality. At some time he needs to experience the reality, when will the least damage occur? When we moved to FL in 1994, both FWW DD stayed with her x. They all learned reality, and younger stepdaughter ended up with us to finish HS and then nursing school. She is much better off than older step daughter who stayed with x and is in debt with no good degree. Best thing we did was letting those girls experience the reality of their Father.
If I end my life the kids are old enough, insurance will pay off the house, DS18's college, and a year of rent for FWW. This is before the social security. Selling the house after it is paid off provides a down payment for FWW for a new house, and college for DS14. Everyone can be happy. I lived my life and had my shot. I do not see a great deal of happiness in the next 10 years. Inheritence from my folks will roll to the DS's and provide both enough for a modest house in the next 10 - 15 years. Selling or insurance on the boat will buy a couple of new vehicles to drive.
I should reallocate my retirement to SI.
What is it we are all tryig to hold on to? I took the M test and I failed, miserably. Time to set up the next generation.
Thisjust jumped out at me tho and I had to laugh:
iwam is not around, so I made another rum and coke
(She's going to get you eventually tho....)
I am not accepting the sitch. I thought I could maybe hang on for a year or so , her there, me here just until I get myself on my feet financially.
I am trying to act civil and ok, but WH keeps throwing these curveballs at me and then wonders why I get upset and then turns it around on me.
Ats: Is it the weather? I've been thinking along the same lines.....have been all day yesterday and this morning. Just to give up. Not be bothered. Just for the pain to stop.
Funny thing though, as I was lying in bed, and started thinking about things more and more, I started to get angry. I am so afraid of letting that anger go....so I end up turning it in.
I know you think that everyone will be ok financialy, but you still have young kids. They need you. And You deserve some happiness. If you feel in any way that you contributed to the marriage problems, so what? Address that to WH. Tell her you are sorry for any of the marriage problems, BUT YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR HER ACTIONS TO HAVE AN A!!!!!!
WW has issues and I know you love her. She loves you from what I've been reading. You are in for a hard ride. It's hard to change the "dance" you have been doing all these years.
Are you seeing an IC, Ats? Just going through this pain is very very hard.
I do want to thank you for your support. I used to be so strong, and I guess I still am in a way. I feel like I've wasted a year wallowing in depression, just barely surviving.
The argument and the way WH reacted probably was for the best so I can detach more. I'm just so hurt and devastated and it keeps coming. I feel I keep getting sucker punched, and it's not that WH is doing it purposely, he is NOT thinking at all, and that is what hurts the most. Especially the comment he made that I was telling DS's bad things about him, "His children and his other wife" quote. He hurts me, and when I tell him, he blames me for something I didn't do and hurts me more. This is not love. This is not even decent. Who is this man?
Damn, I didn't want to vent again. The weather here must be melting my brain.
If I end my life
this is not talk that should be coming from you...but you want to play this game, i'll play and lets take your following paragraph and pull it apart...
warning: i am very sensitive to this issue of suicide...with good reason btw...i am a survivor of a family member who took this route...so warning!!!
the kids are old enough,
old enough for what pray tell, i was 22 when it happened, he was an uncle not a dad, and i can tell you first hand that the after affects are life long...there is no such thing as old enough for this..
insurance will pay off the house, DS18's college, and a year of rent for FWW.
insurance will not pay a penny on suicide, not a penny...and the cost in the minds and hearts of your family is priceless...the damage will be forever and you cannot buy it back, even if you manage to find an ins co that will pay out after suicide...the price of the human mind and human heart far outweighs any amount of money
This is before the social security. Selling the house after it is paid off provides a down payment for FWW for a new house, and college for DS14.
have you checked the social security payments, and i got news for you, once your son turns 18, social security is done...and that check every month is a pittance..
Everyone can be happy.
this is pure unadulterated BULLSHIT...no one will be happy...actually they will all be miserable, and if this is what you want then i guess your plan will succeed then...
I lived my life and had my shot. I do not see a great deal of happiness in the next 10 years.
correction...you are living your life, and you know what we all have moments, some a hell of alot longer then others, and sometimes the unhappiness seems like it will take over the rest of your life...but that is also bullshit, life really is what you make of it...even in our sorry ass circumstances, we all can changes our lives if that is what we want....we are all choosing our paths to follow....and we all possess the power to change direction any time we wish.....but we are choosing some of us to put up with what we have to put up with because we do see something for the future, whether its a happy marriage or a happy family....whatever the state of being of the marriages we all want the same thing...to be happy and at peace with our lives...and i believe it is totally atainable for all of us....and being with our spouses...well they are not necessary if being with them means we feel suicidal...then i would think the choice would be easy...get out..
Inheritence from my folks will roll to the DS's and provide both enough for a modest house in the next 10 - 15 years. Selling or insurance on the boat will buy a couple of new vehicles to drive.
who really gives a flying fuck if they can get some of this money....the money won't last forever and if your family continues the way they do now, that money will fly out faster then is will come in....
now if youre talking like this because of drinking...well then why are still drinking....ats, drinking and you seem to be a bad combo when you are feeling somewhat down...it seems to make you feel worse, to the point where you are talking suicide...that is scary and sad..so
S T O P
o.k. mild rant is over...and this is a mild rant...so if you talk like this again, i cannot promise you mild again, i am sure it will escalate...
honest: things will get better for you, however for now, until this whole mess is sorted your ups and downs will probably be huge...but once all is settled with you, when you are working, and not dependent upon him, or married to him anymore i feel that you will have a settled heart, i really believe you will find that peace you seek, it will take time and it will take work on your part...you deserve that peace....
as for your boys, listen all kids have these fantasies that they play out in their minds, i know as a kid i did too...and mine were really out there for my parents considering that my dad married my aunt and had a baby with her...would have been a totally head turning scenario if my fantasies came true....the point i am making very badly is that all kids want to see their parents get back together or stay together, and if one parent needs work on their "minds" so to speak, the fantasy includes a cleaned up version of who they see as their parent....
the kids who want their parents apart are usually living in such horrible abusive circumstances, and not necessarily physical abuse, that emotinal abuse when the kids are privvy to too much info is sometimes worse...the point is, all kids have these fantasies that are way out there concerning their parents, and most kids don't see the parents for who they really are, or they do see them but the glasses they use to view them have subjectivity...pulling out the parts they cannot handle...and kids do not have the power to forsee to far into the future to predict all the consequences that go with all actions....
On top of all this, DS 15 is telling me "only 3 more years and I'm 18 and I can move out!!" It just hurts. It just makes me feel it's me.
2 of my kids say this too!!! dd and manchild...and concerning manchild, he has done nothing but complain about everything and when we were in the airport a couple of weeks ago i actually told him that since all he does is complain, treat me badly and if he really feels the way he keeps claiming i will be "happy" to see him go, i am tired of hearing how much he doesn't wnat to be "here"...and if he really feels that way that as disappointed as i will be in his choices of leaving rather then making it better then i will be "happy" to see him off...and i meant it...well the look on his face i have to tell you was priceless, i was still upset but i was happy to see how my response really hurt him...he had to hold back the tears as he continued his verbal assault on me...
ukgirl: just one question..why do you still not tell him how you really feel and what you need from him?
okay that was 2 questions within one question....
i really believe your husband needs to be told everything...i get the sense that he hasn't a clue, and i don't think he can figure it out....i think he needs to be spoon fed a bit...or at the very least you letting him know about each event that comes up how you feel about it and what you would like to see from him...are you afraid that if you tell him, he won't come through??
o.k. that was another question...
dip: so you will help us all when we all crash...ver admirable...so basically you will go back to putting you on hold again...and how will that help YOU, remember you are crashing too, will you be able to do this...i am imagining that you will have had it up to here (holding my hand up to the top of my head) with putting YOU on hold...
allgood: i think i would love your daughter...she sounds like another little girl i used to babysit, i call her my little whirlwind...and your daughter sounds so much like that...i like kids with spunk, not spoiled ones, but spunky ones...there is a difference...
o.k. pfm is really an idiot btw..yesterday we had kid day at my house, in the pool, an inground pool...basically my dd17 invited all the kids she babysits for, 2 of the kids were droppped off without a parent...one was the whirlwind (my dd babysits for them at night) and her baby brother who is 2...so anyways pfm said he watch after the little one, who didn't want to be in the pool...so i was in the pool with the rest of them, eyes constantly counting heads, making rounds making sure all are accounted for, ( i am a neurotic mom also, so this is a big deal for me on the safety spectrum)...anyways i look up and there is the 2 year old standing on the diving board, no life vest on, no watre wings on..just this little 2 year old...PFM IS NO WHERE TO BE FOUND... so i jump out, run to the kid ...pfm comes out of the house...he actually left the kid and went into the house...needless to say fuming...hold your ears for this part:
HOW COULD HE JUST LEAVE THIS BABY ALONE TO GO DO WHATEVER THE FUCK HE WAS DOING WITHOUT TELLING ME, MAKING SURE THERE WAS ANOTHER RESPONSIBLE ADULT WATCHING HIM....THEN HE HAS THE FUCKING NERVE TO TELL ME IT WAS JUST A ...FUCKING MISTAKE...ARE YOU KKIDDING ME...A MISTAKE THAT COULD HAVE ENDED UP WITH THIS KID DEAD OR HURT VERY BADLY, A MISTAKE...THIS IS NOT A MISTAKE THAT EVER SHOULD HAPPEN...I CANNOT TRUST THIS MAN WITH ANYTHING...NOTHING...DAMN THESE CAPS ARE NOT BIG ENOUGH TO SCREAM AS LOUD AS I NEED TO SCREAM...HE IS A FUCKING ASSHOLE...A HUGE FUCKING ASSHOLE....
o.k.. this rant is over for now....
Honest: I am sorry you are having such a hard time. Your H is an ass, make no mistakes, however, some of the stupidity that comes out of his mouth is probably the product of the fact that you haven't made it clear that there will be no R.
I really, really, think you are doing yourself a dis-service in this regard & as I have told you - you are not the only woman to be financially dependant on her spouse. That is what our legal system is for. You do not need to put up with this bullshit!
Miracle: yes PFM is an idiot. Acutally my H did something like that about 7 years ago when we were away with friends in the Hamptons and there was that massive blackout. When phone service was finally restored, I went in to call my family (still so close to 9/11 that everyone here in NY still had the jitters as to a possible terrorist link to the black-out)and left H with our kids out in the pool. While I'm on the phone, I see him walking buy looking for a lantern or something! And, of course, with that, 1 kid pushed my 3 y.o. in the pool and another adult had to jump in to get him.
And, as to the general talk of suicide. It definitely crossed my mind - if I didn't have kids it might have been a more serious consideration, but I think if I had no kids, I would just move away.
Right after DDay, my H also said he wished he had died before I found out. (Which - my immediate response - which I kept to myself - was as long as we are wishing for something impossible - why not wish you nev er had the A?)
But, anyway, just thought you could add me to the list of getting so low that checking out seems like a viable option. (I am TOTALLY fine btw - so no pep talks needed).
Aight - now kids are crying - g2g.
We were so sure that our life was one thing... and then we found out that we actually knew nothing about what was happening in our marriages....
we found out that the person we married was a stranger with a secret life....and...
all of these realizations hit us at once..
I for one had a complete emotional breakdown after d-day...
so, Honest...Ats...Allgood...Ukgirl..everyone here on LTA I totally understand the level of sadness and grief that you are experiencing....
what I try to do when I get to that 'low' point (besides taking a Xanax LOL! and making another IC appt.) is to remind myself of all that I do have in my life to be grateful for....
and , I also try to remind myself that I did nothing wrong... that I was trying my best to live a good, decent, life...
my husband and the MOW decided that their stupid, selfish, needs for fun and excitement... were worth hurting so many people that they loved...
and for me ...personally.. I tend to give the MOW a lot of power and allow her to take up way too much space in my head....
gotta stop doing that...
I think I've said it before.. but a book that was and continues to be very helpful for me is Transcending Post Infidelity Stress Disorder by Dr. Ortman.
It really helped me to recognize that I am struggling with PTSD type symptoms.
I think that is true for all of the LTA survivors... whether we have remorseful spouses or not... it was/is an extremely traumatic experience...and our reactions are pretty much textbook...very similar to PTSD... the triggers, the anger, sadness, panic attacks, etc.
Recivering from LTAs is a slow process...
hugs to all....
Still not sure what is up with FWW. She says fine, just hangover from her all day headache yesterday. I guess I just take her at her word, I have asked if there is anything I can do and she says no.
And since there is not, I went to the boat and got the greasy parts of the boat and trailer all greasy, and the parts that are supposed to be bright and shiny all bright and shiny again.
honesttoafault, am I correct that you have a special situation financially in that court ordered spousal or child support could not actually be enforced so long as he is out of the country?
UKgirl, so what is the rest of the story on the all day golf game?