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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affair... Part 18
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 10:08 PM, July 21st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all,

FWW had IC tonight, complained it was a waste of time and not productive. We then spent 2.5 hours processing all the things they covered. She decided maybe it was a useful session.

I am constantly amazed at the things she tells me, and that it is really how she does/did think. Tribe, I am telling you, some of these WS with FOO issues results in aliens that just do not think like we do. Fortunately, he calls her out on this stuff and walks her through it.

Today was mostly on guilt. FWW feels guilt about everything. She felt guilty for having needs, so rather than tell me and have me know, she had an A. A was less guilt than talking to me , but she felt guilt about A too, He gave her homework on learning about good and bad guilt. We are really fortunate to have an excellant C.

I told FWW about my recent revisits to the phone records and disclosures. She told me she does not know why I want to hold on to that, she is done with it, but she did not get mad, She says if I have questions to ask, but I don't know what puprpose is served by asking. A part of me wishes she would volunteer.

Dip, like the others I was suprised by the sudden talk of D, but I suspect that was your frustration poking through.

m224455, I am more and more convinced there is nothign I could have done to prevent the A's. I suspect the same is true in your case. As FWW works through her IC, my share of the M problems drops from 100% to 50% to 25%...

HAve a good night all. UKgirl, are you lurking? I have peanuts.

ETA, edits are not the alcohol, just typing in the dark.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 10:11 PM, July 21st (Wednesday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 8:28 AM, July 22nd (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm making up my list of what WH needs to do. And a written NC agreement since he keeps claiming he didn't know each breach of NC counted...


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 8:29 AM, July 22nd (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tribe. Thanks to all for the suport. It is really nice and a big help.

The big question on everyones mind is why the talk of D now? I think I am just fed up. I just went through 2 plus weeks of constant critisim from my W. Almost every moment we spoke was her complaining. Mean and hateful the whole time. It wears on a person. I think most people would classify this as mental abuse. She even admited during this time that she had been horrible. The bad treatment did not stop though. She has done this before, but not on this level for a while. My talk of D was not because of one night of arguing, but a result of many actions and non-actions by her. When she told me the past was a closed issue, I asked her if she thought all of her A activities were none of my business, she said that is correct. None of my business how my house was used, but she wants to tell me who I can or can't even talk to? Now that is crazy. Since she is not going to get help, she is not going to get better. She does not seem to be interested in me in a sexual way anymore, so that is one more reason to think about the D.

She has tried the past few days to be nicer but is not doing a very good job of that. If I D it will have to be in the future as it would be a very bad money decision right now. Perhaps I can talk her into getting IC but i really do not have much hope for that.

I would like to address everyone's thoughts and concerns about this matter but I am short of time. Hopefully I can get to this later. I will need to take notes.

I am kind of pissed that my W did not point out that I was mean and stupid before I picked my SI name. I might have gone with mean&stupid.

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 8:37 AM, July 22nd (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((dip))

Since she is not going to get help, she is not going to get better.

I think that is the key right there. That is the exact reason my XH is my XH.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 8:57 AM, July 22nd (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm making up my list of what WH needs to do. And a written NC agreement ...

m334455, I think this is a good step. As I mentioned in my earlier post, WSs seem to think about things differently than we do. We need to help them see and learn what is needed, where boundaries are, etc.

FWW mentioed last night that for most of our M she thought I should instinctively know what she needed and wanted. She realizes now that was folish, but for 2 decades she resented me ignoring her needs that she had never shared with me.

dip, I would guess dispite the bitching, your W is "comfortable" with how things are compared to facing some difficult internal work. You taking steps to end the status quo may push her off the fence, or not. do you have any concerns that the recent change is due to another A?

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 9:16 AM, July 22nd (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ats: It really sounds like you guys are making great progress. It seems like such a hard, tiring, grueling process, and I really commend you for sticking it out. It does seem like your wife has a lot of FOO issues. I can empathize with the always feeling guilty syndrome.

Dip: It seems you are now on the demon list of the BPD cycle. Soon, you will be the hero again. Black and white thinking. Are you seeing an IC yourself? BPDs do a lot of damage with thier loved ones. They don't do it intentionally, but it happens. Perhaps seeing a councellor for yourself can help you work out if you want to stay or go. I totally agree that unless your WW gets some help, it will only get worse as time goes on.
Please keep posting here, Dip. I know for me, reality checks always helped because I would start buying into all my mother's accusations and BS and start believing the things she said. One thing she is great about doing is "rewriting" history. It can drive one crazy!!


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 9:20 AM, July 22nd (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So. Last night my night was all about love.

My sister is a director and her new play opened recently. It's 4 monologues with the "actors" telling personal stories about love. It's GREAT. Sold out. Awesome reviews.

It was also girls night, we were taking out a friend whose marriage ended last year when she found out her XWH had a 10 year LTA. I went home on the subway with her and we spent the ride with her telling me about the A and how he keeps taking her back to court for custody and having to drop her kids off with OW for 3 weeks ... ugh.

But it was still just the BEST night. Because of SI I could be really, really supportive for her. Even though most people IRL don't know, including her. It's hard not to tell her how VERY much I understand. But that's not what R is about. Or forgiveness. If I ever tell anyone else it will be OW's BH (well, and my new IC.) That's it.

As for the love stories -- there was so much to relate to, but the story this lesbian woman told of how she met and married her wife and what their relationship was and is like was weirdly the most similar to me and my husband. I loved it. And it also amazed me at the universality of love. And that lesbians can be MAJOR players, LOL.

Since my sister is the director, I also learned that the actor/storyteller said that her relationship with her wife has been SO much more romantic lately since she's been spending so much time thinking and talking about how they got together. Her wife is 10 years younger and totally gorgeous and her wife was the pursuer. At first, the actor said it was hard to tell the story because she just lucked into the marriage and it was SO easy at first and now it's like all marriages and it takes REAL work somtimes, but once my sister helped her find that nostalgia it not only enrichened her performance -- it has actually enriched her ENTIRE LIFE. Amazing.

Just some food for thought.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 9:31 AM, July 22nd (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NJgal: Wow, your Mom has NPD too? My IC tells me that is how I was "trained" to put up with all the crap from WH. She thinks WH has a lot of NPD, but also a lot of BPD traits. No wonder it felt so familiar!! My problem as an only child is that I didn't have others for "reality checks", as I said to Dip, so I would believe the crap Mom would dish out. and feeling guilty all the time, if I was having fun I would be thinking about how my mother is by herself so I don't deserve to have a good time!!
Years of training!!!

ETA: WH calls yesterday and tells me how much he loves me and how much of an angel I am and that I am in the wrong place, I should be in heavenn.
This sudden turn around, when I was so scared! I just told him that I married the devil to make him better and didn't succeed.

He just laughed. Oh well, just wanted to share the craziness. Detaching, M3? Now, I'm just laughing at this. He would have sucked me right in again, but I'm pulling back from the nonsense and decided that instead of getting angry about this "blarney/bologna" I would just make a joke about it.

I told WH that there is a difference between "blarney" and "bologna". Bishop Fulton Sheen said blarney is a compliment spread on so thin, you love it. He said, " Bologna is when a man comes up to a 50 year old woman and tells her she looks like she's 20. Blarney is when a man approaches a 50 year old woman and says, "you must tell me how old you are so I know at what age a woman is at her most beautiful!" The woman will know the second line is BS, but it's done in such a way that she understands the intention is to be nice and make her feel good, so she accepts it and laughs.

WH does both blarney and bologna very well.

But I am going to try my best not to fall for it anymore. I'm too gullible!!


{{{{tribe}}}}}


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 9:37 AM, July 22nd (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

M3: I'm so glad that you got a good "girl's night out". Your sister must be a wonderful director!!

I know what you mean about R, but when you were talking to this other woman, I don't think it's "anit-R" to reveal that you understand because you went/going through a similar situation without going into details. Sometimes just knowing that you are not the only one who has gone through this hell and can make it through the other side can be helpful. In general, I agree, that if you are in R, you keep it to yourself. The best thing, I guess, is go by your gut about telling.

{{{{tribe}}}}


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 10:11 AM, July 22nd (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

m3 i am constantly amazed at your diverse life...as sister who puts on plays..very cool...plays and subways..makes me think of ny...i guess because i live in ny too...


it is amazing that so many different opportunities do exist to learn from...it really is cool....

ats: your wife is at least learning, albeit the hard way, she is learning and she is applying what she is learning....and i do believe you have the patience of a saint...

dip: please make sure of what you truly want before you make any decisions...and for the sex part, is this recent, like since you both started arguing, or maybe i should say since she's decided that you are not doing what she wants you to do...


honest: you are making stride dear heart, definite strides in your baby steps...so take heart in knowing that...


(((lostsoul))): i know you lurk all the time, i am hoping you are now, and just remember to find the joy where you can, especially with your grandkids...

ukgirl: did you tell us you were going away, i cannot remember..

and fnf: check in, i know this is a really hard time for you...we are here when you are ready, oh and i sent you a pm

and all other of this wonderful tribe, remember all things do come to pass...maybe not the way we'd like them to or at the speed we'd like them to, but they do pass...especially if we work at it...and reward yourself too for it, and its a hot one here in ny...i think ice cream or cold watermelon sometime today would be really nice...

((((tribe))))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 6:37 PM, July 22nd (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey dip.. Sorry you are not getting the support from your W on the new biz... It is hard enough without dealing with other things. I wish you peace brother...

Progress made this week. I woke up.. not that thought about infidelity... all the way to 11:35am... nothing! Then wham.. saw an old remodeled car and OM pop in my mind.. then songs on the sat radio.. lol.. then... oh well maybe one day I will make it. Maybe on the 3 year plan..

I must say this. When I first found this site, I saw many people saying it will take 2 - 5 years. It was very discouraging to read about that time. But I now realize, it just does. It also takes your wayward to change along with that in a Transparent, loving, remorse... Then, I suppose there is no guarantees. So I'm just living life. Another good weekend planned at a State Park. I hope you all do something special too..

[This message edited by trynhard at 6:43 PM, July 22nd (Thursday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 10:42 PM, July 22nd (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

everyone is nice and quiet..

tryn: you keep it up and in no time you will get through an entire day, and then some..i have faith in you and in your wife, cause you really cannot get there alone..


had a small trigger moment tonite..watching a movie with the kids...something was said, and bamm...it didn't take long though, a minute or 2 later the moment was gone, into the recesses of my mind...not gone gone, just in the back somewhere lurking...but strangely, good strangely it didn't hurt big time...so yay for me...i think..


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 5:11 AM, July 23rd (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My rant/NC agreement/list of things he can do for R/questions for him was 27 handwritten pages long.

miracle -- I've never been to NY, but I can see how it would make you think of NY.

So, revise the first draft. That's the new project. I'll be on vacation and I am vowing not to look at SI the entire time.


Tryn -- 11:35, huh? Not bad. I know what you mean about the car thing. My DS1 and WH keep asking for a mustang. I want to hit WH as OW drives a mustang. Ugh. I told them maybe a camaro.

honest -- I can't tell her. Everyone knows I wasn't married to my XH long. It would let the cat out of the bag in a bad, bad way. Maybe I'll tell her about my IRL friend who supports me instead and give her the SI web address telling her it was suggested by my friend.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 6:49 AM, July 23rd (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have to put this affair thing in perspective, at least for me. As bad and as painful as it is and has been, there are people so much worse off than me.

Yesterday I saw a side of my H that I have never seen in the 35 years I have been with him.

My neighbor came over early yesterday morning crying that her husband was laying on the floor and she couldn't get him up. They are 50 years old....not old

The both of us ran over there and the poor man was lying there unable to get up. He was in excrutiating pain (I've never seen anyone in that much pain). He was scheduled for a bone biopsy that morning as they think he may have cancer. And his wife was trying to get him in the car.

My H and I and his wife got him in a chair and then got him to the car so he could get to the hospital. My H was so compassionate towards this man, totally compassionate, and kind and very serious about what he was doing. He kept telling him it was going to be ok, he was doing good, asking each step if he was alright and if at any time he felt he could not go on we would rest. I couldn't stop starring at my H...this is what my H does and I never had an opportunity to see him in action.

He did his job and we left. I cried going home to think of what this family must be going through and how my pain compared to that. I have much to be thankful for.

My pain has the capacity to lesson and hopefully one day cease. But what this family was and has been going through really got to me.

So I pray for them and will try not to think of myself today or the A.


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:52 AM, July 23rd (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

m334455... I have triggers like all of us here...

Back during W's A, the OM would sometimes come over the my house to show us his classic cars. He was alway drunk too. He would try hard to make my son and daughter like him.. showing off.. writing them notes, giving them things... So now, everytime I see an old classic car of any type, I think of that ass hole coming over our house. Any infidelity on the news is a trigger too. Other things too.

But it is getting easier to deal with them.

Have a good day all.

[This message edited by trynhard at 7:54 AM, July 23rd (Friday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 8:26 AM, July 23rd (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tribe. I will try to answer some of your questions.

ats. I have had limited grilling time. Except for the evil grilling I have been getting. She has not complained about my cooking. At least I am capable of doing one thing right. I do not think she is in another A.

m3. I wish i was your FIL. That way I would get to see Baby Paddy in person.

honest. I have read some of the eggshell book. Thanks for the encouragement. She is changing back to the bright side. Three weeks of dark is way too much. When she said she wanted to D and I agreed by offering her the generous D terms she started the change. It is the classic "I hate you/don't leave me" action that BPD spouses are famous for.

nofun. Thank ypou very much. Your kind words mean a lot. Yes I do want out. The A is only a part of the reason though.

Allgood Yes I have struggled with all of this for several years.I just feel that it is time to end the struggle. I was having a sort of PTSD issue before I found SI. You are correct. I never did get a significant understanding of the situation. I always had some hope that someday I might get that understanding. I can see that this is probably not going to happen. I am coming to terms with that issue. It is kind of hard though.

I have noticed that we do seem to rotate our up and down times here at the LTA house. I hope we all do not hit rock bottom at the same time. What would we do? I guess we would have to call in the mods and adms.

miracle and tryin. I am out of time, so thanks to you for your thoughts and advice.

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 9:11 AM, July 23rd (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have noticed that we do seem to rotate our up and down times here at the LTA house. I hope we all do not hit rock bottom at the same time. What would we do? I guess we would have to call in the mods and adms.


Yeah.... this can't happen.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 9:15 AM, July 23rd (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have noticed that we do seem to rotate our up and down times here at the LTA house. I hope we all do not
hit rock bottom at the same time. What would we do? I guess we would have to call in the mods and adms.

Yeah.... this can't happen.



i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 2:24 PM, July 23rd (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nofun... Not many people make it through life without some sort of shit thrown at them. Well, this is our shit.

LTA's are pretty shitty, not itty bitty,
we must be gritty, and not a kitty,
It is a pity, much like Clytie,
Hey I'm pretty witty


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 4:32 PM, July 23rd (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dip....
glad things are looking up a bit!
Remember...stand your ground...IMHO..she isn't going anywhere...she knows what a 'catch' you are!
All that BPD anger and negativity.... you just need to stand strong and not get sucked in...(I know...easier said than done!)...but, maybe if you react by not reacting it could help diffuse the situation and maybe get things back on track quicker.
Just walk away from the argument...go out for a walk... leave for the afternoon, go to a movie by yourself... or really shock her.. go away some where for a few days by yourself...
go visit a far away friend!
Or...even better... take a singles tour to Europe! tuscany...
LOL...now, there's a plan for escaping BPD ranting....

and..about what would happen if all the LTAs crashed at the same time...
that would be something...
right now there seems to always be some kind of balance...when some of us are triggered and feel really down there are others out there to lift us up!
I am feeling better about things...today...
so, I guess I'll take that.
Just like Tryin'....even a few hours without any negative triggers is a small victory...


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
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