I pray that someday pfm will do what he is supposed to do.
not something i can or will count on....i have to deal with what is...i spent so much, wrong, i spent all of my marriage waiting for him to step up to the plate, he always had tons of empty promises...i have learned to expect nothing, and that he delivers....i need to live with what is, because the rest may never be and i need to live in the present...
as for your bending, you should never bend for him again....your kids, but never him...and please take the time in the future when they overlap to make sure it is your kids and not him...and i am glad to hear that you are working on those boundaries, i think once you define them it will be easier...
fun: i am glad to hear that you and your ws had a good start on communication...i hope you do what you have to do to make sure those lines of communication stay open for both of you, i don't think he is quite there yet in knowing all that he has to do....and right now even though it really seems unfair that the brunt of this is on you, that is just the way it is, nothing more, nothing less...he just hasn't learned how yet..but hopefully with ic and with your patience he will....
I wish you peace miracle...you do deserve it. You are a wonderful mom and genuine warm hearted woman as is everyone in LTA...And the men here of LTA; if only our husbands had half of what you are made of.
It seems like such a struggle. I had a melt down last night after H again talked about OW. For some reason he is opening up and now he won't shut up. I didn't say anything, I just listened. He started to talk about the sex they had...I could feel myself tensing up. I never asked what they did and to hear him say they had oral did me in. I knew they did this but to hear it was something else. I started to cry and he apologized and said he was sorry. He was trying to tell me that the sex with me was a 10 and how comfortable and connected he felt when with me and that he never felt connected with her. It was just something different that meant nothing to him.
H told me he's afraid OW will contact him and he went over this with his IC. Why does he keep talking about OW? It makes me nervous that he gives her so much thought but then on the other hand I think because he would not open up before that maybe he just needs someone to listen to him? He does seem to be indifferent towards OW now where before she was a "good person".
Will OW always take up space in my brain? I hate her!!
I'm over it this morning, it's a new day.
My H is a horrible communicator and conflict avoider. I never could understand how I ask him questions and get no answers. Not one, he just wouldn't talk to me. Oh we talk about kids, work, what to do on the weekends, etc. Never ever could he talk about US. I got "when are you going to get over this"? I even got an ultimatum where he said he would leave by labor day if I didn't "snap out of it".
Fun -- just listen. He's giving you a huge gift, even though it does hurt. he's showing you who he was, who he is -- he's giving you what you need to be able to believe him when he says "it's safe to R with me because I am no longer the kind of person who could ever do this again."
ETA -- another good thing about that book too good to leave too bad to stay is that now that my WH has opened up the teeniest bit I see in there right away some things I was doing and didn't realize that means he should have walked away from me.
Poor man, he married a very childish woman. But I *finally* grew up, probably right around when DS3 (Sunshine) was born (can you say late bloomer?) and so now we fix all this BS.
[This message edited by m334455 at 8:03 AM, July 21st (Wednesday)]
I also understand how difficult is to listen and not react in a way that is angry or will scare him back to withdrawing. FWW is now usually the one to initiate discussion of the A’s. I often struggle not to make a sarcastic response and to control anger towards her and her OM. A common theme for her is going back to her A at the end of her first M and dissecting it. Up until a few months ago, she saw her OM in that relationship as being the one true love of her life. I get to help her process that. I try to just reflect back what she said or acknowledge it without any comments.
He does seem to be indifferent towards OW now where before she was a "good person".
They do seem fickle, don’t they? A year ago, she was “fond” of OM#2 and resented me for all that was wrong in her life. Now she is in love with me, hates, and wants to hurt OM #2. Four years ago, she was “giddy”, had a crush on OM #1, wanted to leave me, now she loves me, and is embarrassed to have been involved with OM #1.
allgoodnamesgone, as painful as it was to read, once FWW gave me details about her A including the meetings for sex, the mind movies and obsessing subsided for me. I hope you get what you need from your H. One thing I am just starting to understand is that I am often wrong in thinking they did things as “we” did. From what she has told me, this is not the case. I know there were times she really enjoyed the sex, but it was not as ours was years (decades?) ago when there was still some affection for me.
Fun: I TOTALLY forgot about his ultimatum! So this is really a big turnaround! I really am very very happy for you!
Fun & M3: I seriously doubt my H will ever open up - he was never that kind of person even when we were dating - which included us watching his father become very sick & die while my H was just 20 or so. And, M3 - yes - I get a lot of pretending it never happened. When I raise the issue he tells me he thinks about our relationship "all the time" and that when he thinks about the A all he thinks is that he ruined his life. I don't think he is open to finding deeper meaning to his A because it is too ugly. I think he likes his justification - he wasn't getting any love or sex at home & the opportunity presented itself & now that we are "good" there's no reason for anything like this to happen again.
And, M3: I keep forgetting to tell you how much I LOVE your tagline. (I'm also a frequent user of the phrase "craptastic".) Lol.
I don't think he is open to finding deeper meaning to his A because it is too ugly.
I don't think he is open to finding deeper meaning to his A because it is too ugly.
Look, you're not going to like this: but sometimes there really isn't a deeper meaning. Some people are just shallow, KWIM?
I would LOVE, LOVE, LOVE to think there is something I could have done to prevent this, but there probably isn't. Even recognizing my 50% (80%?) share of our marital problems, I seriously doubt that they have much of anything to do with it.
Bottom line: WH has always been a bit of a "bad boy". I don't know why I thought I was going to be immune from his general assholeness just because I married him and bore him 4 children.
His reason was (1) It made him feel young (2) It was exciting to take a risk and (3) It was easy. And that's it. And as much as I see things that need changing -- it's about him and opportunity more than me. He's got other problems with me, but those problems didn't really cause the A.
So what changes? Well, easy was a big thing. It's not easy anymore. AND it's a much higher risk than he realized. Add some boundaries (what are THOSE?) and some honesty (some honest-wha?) and ta da! Having another A is not as likely.
I'll tell you one thing. If I'd EVER known OW was an old f*buddy "easy" would not have been part of the equation. "Oh sure, I'll watch the kids while you go drinking with your old f*buddy!" I think not. Apparently, it is safe to assume my WH does not have female friends.
Tribe. My business venture is going pretty much as planed. My big problem is my W and her nonsupport. She has for the most part been against me on this. I was doubting myself on some issues, so I consulted with a man I know who has much knowledge about these matters. He seemed to think things were going o.k. However, when I told W about this she got very angry and berated me for sharing our private info and for having this outsider on our property. Of course I thought of her A activities, sharing herself and our life with others, and for having OM#1 and OM#2 at our house. This made me sad but I did not say anthing and just listened to her bitch for a hour or more about this subject. I hit my breaking point and said I guess I made a error in judgement, but I was not happy about her attacking me about this with such anger. She said I should not have been so stupid. That is right! Stupid! So I screwed up and told her that what I did was not as stupid as her having OM in our house in order to have sex with them. To say that the shit hit the fan is a huge understatement. She really went off on a rant, filled with many F words and other non flattering descriptions of me. Somewhere in all of this I was told that her past actions were a closed subject and I was to never mention any of this again. She could not handle anymore of that and really could not handle anything that was happening in our life. I suggested C might be helpful for her, but she laughed at that idea. She then said she wanted a D but I had put us in a position where that would be a bad money decision. It is true that to D right now would be very tough. I told her that she was not going to lose any money. I said I would figure our net worth, divide by two and when D time came any loss by the business would be deducted from my half, any gain would be split 50/50 between us. A win, win situation for her. I also added that I was moving to a extra bedroom. Her answer to that was, so you just wanted a D all along. No shit. I don't even know what to say about her reaction.
I know I should not laugh about all this but I just can not help myself. Honest and njgal will recognize the extreme BPD behavior in this story. Anyway, she changed her mind, did not want me to move to another bedroom and does not want a D. She did say that I had been mean to her for 30 years, (I wanted to ask what years I got credit for being nice, but thought I should hold off on that), and that all she had wanted was for someone to be nice to her. I guess this was in reference to her A activities. Since this is a closed subject I did not think I could ask her that question either. I'm sure as long as she was putting out, those guys were nice to her, not mean like I apparently was. BTW, this is the first time I have been told I was mean.
So now she is being a little more supportive and a bit nicer. My problem is the fact that I do not think I can view this as a lasting relationship. She seems to think that I do not need to discuss my thoughts and feelings and that our property is really just her property. I went into this business deal with everything out on the table and in front of her. Many honest and open conversations about how things were going to be. I did not sneak around, lie cheat and steal. She said to go for it more than once. I really feel that when I get all this money stuff in order that I am moving on. She needs help, but will not seek it. Maybe if she is on her own, she will figure out that she would improve her life by getting some C. I am just going to do the best I can at getting along and try not to express any of my feelings about anything. I actually feel better than I would have expected about my decision. I do not think I can ever make her happy. I really doubt that anyone can unless she gets help. Somewhere I have read that a person with BPD is at times a emotional blackhole that just sucks all of your emotional energy from you and is unable to give anything in return. Then just when you hit bottom they give enough back to give you hope that things will be normal. This is a very accurate description. I think I am done being on this yo-yo.
I have been trying to keep up with everyone's situation here. I wish I could be of some assistance to everyone, but if you have managed to read this far you can see that I have my plate full at this time. Besides all that who would want advice from someone who is mean and stupid?
forgive. Thanks. I tried stand up comedy. The problem was, I kept falling down. Sorry. That was lame.
This is such a great place to write out your thoughts. I feel better already.
Hugs to the tribe.
I'm sure as long as she was putting out, those guys were nice to her, not mean like I apparently was.
LOL, each of the 3 OM FWW had sex with told her that I didn't appreciate what a wonderful W I had.
And you are right, you cannot make her happy. Only she can do that.
Any time for grilling in all of this?
Are you my FIL? Seriously, sounds just like WH's mom.
So ... what are you going to do? The past is a sunk cost; you still have the whole rest of your life ahead of you. You're really out? I think this is a good thing. You can't have a normal relationship with her, you're right.
My normal reactions get treated like I'm BPD by my WH thanks to his Mom. It's frustrating.
It's extremely difficult and I really feel your pain. I know she loves you and you love her, but she can suck you dry unless she gets some help.
Have you read: "Stop Walking on Eggshells" by Mason and Kreger? It is an extremely helpful book about BPD.
Keep posting here, especially for "reality checks" which is what I usually needed when dealing with my mother.
The saddest thing that I KNOW if my mother fully realizes what she is doing to me with her behavior, she would be even more depressed, perhaps she does in a way, but can't help it.
Ironically, boundaries are the best thing for BPD. Oh Dip, I really, really feel for you!!! It will be too hard to stay and too difficult to leave!!
Keep posting and venting here!!!
Nofun: I'm glad that your WH is finally opening up. I understand that it must be very difficult to listen to him talk about OW, but he is sharing this pain and in the end it will bring you closer. Please, keep posting and not hold all of it in!!
I am glad your business venture is going well and I hope it continues. You are not stupid and mean. You are a smart intelligent man. Relationships suck. Are you really serious about leaving? I guess the coaster ride never ends!!
i will be back later, damn you are all so chatty today...i feel like i got lots to catch up and i didn't go anywhere...
[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 3:34 PM, July 21st (Wednesday)]
sidenote: how sick is it that we think our spouses telling us details about g=having sex with another is a gift..
o.k. end of side note....
anyways....he is trusting you with who he is, getting naked so to speak with you...letting go...not an easy thing to do for him...and it involves him allowing himself to be vulnerable to you, (yeah, i know that sounds off the wall too)..but its true...so not saying anything and just listening is perfect...
dip: your post troubles me, i like allgood, wonder why now?..has this been the final straw, or is it more along the lines of throwing it out there and seeing how it feels, or even still some empty threats to make you feel good in the moment so that you could do what you gotta do, especially with this deal of yours....????
inquiring minds want to know!!!
interesting topic: feelings towards the op's...
mine went from protecting all of them, to telling me all of them were the persuers, to telling me he no longer thinks about any of them...ever..not even the one he loved for 30 years...and then i just said "whatever"..i think he is full of shit and has yet to deal with her loss...the others, i really believe don't matter to him, even the other lta, but the #1...well that one i don't buy at all...
sidenote: how sick is it that we think our spouses telling us details about g=having sex with another is a gift
Lol. . Yes, this is not good.
Dip: I wonder if it is because you found SI that a lot of your unresolved issues have been rising to the surface, especially in the face of your stress from your business with the alligators and your wife's lack of support. (I remember you said that your wife's condition at the time you discovered the A, along with your lack of knowledge as to how to handle the situation, meant you probably never really got a significant understanding of the matter. And - I know her BPD in general has made revisiting the issue, as she says "a closed topic").
Just a thought...