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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affair... Part 18
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 12:28 PM, July 6th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She says she is different, feels awful for what she has done and never would again. When she said this a couple of nights ago I disagreed with her, and pointed out that her feeling awful about what she had done was actually a risk factor for another A, not a protection against.
She feels awful because she has finally faced herself and the consequences of her selfish behaviour. It’s natural to disbelieve everything she says when she was living a parallel life for so long. Once again, you cannot be responsible for her choices. What is there to stop her doing it again? Nothing. If she wants to, she will. Her choice. But, if she has recognised that she gambles something of immense value against something of NO value (other than short-term enjoyment) then she will choose to not take the risk.

We are all capable of committing adultery, but we make a choice NOT to. A friend quoted his grandmother to me and it’s a good line: all it takes is opportunity and inclination. That is what our WS chose over us. And they chose it because they could, they were incredibly selfish and thought we would never know. What you don’t know can’t harm you (except it does, of course).

It angered/frightened me that she was not sharing her feelings with me and hoping things would just be better the next day. This is the type of thinking she had all through our M that led to her being resentful and me being clueless. She says this time was different, but I do not see how.
Before she took not sharing as distance. The less she shared, the more distant she felt. The less you picked up intuitively (don’t ask!) the more resentful she felt and this justified her actions. Now, she doesn’t share (although she is sharing more?) because this is a new experience for both of you and perhaps your responses are not quite what she expected and so she shies away rather than deliberately draws away.

I think I got tangled up in my own words.

m33, Have you sorted this business of NC, FB, phone pics? (WHY do people take pics of their genitals???) And has your H had an IC session yet? Have you talked to your IC/MC about his possible (probable) SA? Sheesh. As if you don’t have enough on your plate.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 12:30 PM, July 6th (Tuesday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 6:18 PM, July 6th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

all it takes is opportunity and inclination

My weekend… I was at this pitch-in Sunday with about a dozen folks and this nice looking single woman maybe in her low 30's. She started drinking too much… must have been on some drugs too… She was flirting with every man (about 4 of us)... grabbed my ass... told me I was sexy... said, I was turning her on. Yes, at the time, it made me feel hot... and I admit I was very attracted... lol...

Then, as I was packing up to go watch the fireworks… The shit hit the fan… One of the guys at our party was caught by his fiancée in a locked room and this drunken woman had no top. He was able to talk his way out of it by saying “she just took it off” in front of him. My W says they were in the room for about 15 minutes. Damn, I was hurt… I’ve known this guy for about a year. What a f’ing pig.

I want to tell her to run away as she was saying, “I thought my life was about to change”, but couldn’t say it… The naked girl won’t even remember what happened she was so wasted.

And I wonder why I cannot get by just one day not thinking about infidelity...


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 8:44 PM, July 6th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Now, she doesn’t share (although she is sharing more?) because this is a new experience for both of you and perhaps your responses are not quite what she expected and so she shies away rather than deliberately draws away.

I think she is sharing more, this is the whole thing. I find out she has been witholding how seh feels. lying to me when I check, so how do I know. How do I know when she is being honest? When is she saying, or not saying, what she thinks will keep me happy? Why does she feel responsible for my happiness and me for hers? See, it is the same f'up thinking.

It really worries me that she is just trying to "manage" me, I don't know why. I think she wants this all to be finished and done and go back to the way things were, but that led to at least 4 OM. IDK, I am doing a little mini 180 to get setteled. She sees the IC tomorrow. Most times he ends up calling her out on stuff. We will see.

Tryn, I always thought your ass looked hot too, but I did not want to say anything. Nice job avoiding the party girl.

So this picture thing, the only time I know of FWW sending/sharing a naked cell phone pic was with OM#2. Told me the idea was gross when I suggesterd it

Had a good ride home the long route, yoga at the gym, a couple of tequila shooters, life is back to OK

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 8:44 PM, July 6th (Tuesday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3968 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 8:37 AM, July 7th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LOL... ast.. Yep, me hot??? That's me.. reality is that near 50, not too much looks so good.. lol.. but who cares, I have inner beauty...
anyways...This is what I’m thinking… I think you just stick to managing yourself... just keep your boundaries, share how you feel only, try hard to do all the desirables (that is love...) avoid the non-desirables… you feel good about yourself doing all the right things. I think 180 is for those going outside your boundaries. Is she stepping outside your boundaries? As far as “checking” goes.. Do It. If she does not like it.. then tough, you need to keep checking as long as you need because cheaters lie. I’ll still peak at phone records.

I’m not sure what you mean by her trying to “manage” you? Maybe because you still need to know stuff associated with how, what, why she made the choice to love some other men? It’s all the same for every cheater.. Greed, selfishness, the excitement of doing that …. Etc..
BTW… No need to congratulate me over not falling for lust, betrayal… That was always me. That is who I am. After this weekend, I can relate again to those feeling of lust hit me… But I have always had the ability to control myself. My new x-friend this past weekend fell into the trappings because he’s weak, selfish… probably ruined a good relationship over his stupidity.

Too me... I think you sound like you are doing very well in your R.

[This message edited by trynhard at 8:42 AM, July 7th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 9:24 AM, July 7th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

m33, Have you sorted this business of NC, FB, phone pics? (WHY do people take pics of their genitals???) And has your H had an IC session yet? Have you talked to your IC/MC about his possible (probable) SA? Sheesh. As if you don’t have enough on your plate.

I haven't done jack and I'm not really sure why.

My husband won't go to IC and his IC says there is no point in seeing my husband any more often than he needs to go in for his medication checks. He said WH is not "an introspective guy" and that it would be a waste of time and money. Seriously.

We don't have MC. Given his IC's lovely evaluation of him, and my personal hatred of MC in general, I've taken a pass thusfar.

I'm switching IC and will see the new guy in early August. My IC just can't help with this. Her sister had an LTA Dday the same week as me and somehow my IC is all mixed up in the head, personally involved, etc.

At the end of the day, the problem I think is this: I really do think this is a dealbreaker for me. I think that is where my reluctance to talk about it, etc. all comes from. I think that's why I was nearly hysterical and cried about 900 hours. I think that is why I accepted a few lame explanations for questionable behavior over the years -- essentially giving him a chance to quit before he was definitively
caught.

I can't figure out where forgiveness just becomes codependence.

But, mostly I just can't even look myself in the mirror. I think: have you no self respect?

And I don't want to talk to my WH because I don't trust him and my guess is that he'll use whatever I say to manipulate me. And even if that's not the case, talking to him might build trust, and why do I want to build trust with someone who has so brutally proven themselves to be untrustworthy and it might build intimacy and why do I want to be close to someone who enjoys harming and using me? I don't believe him when he says he loves me or cares about my feelings or that I'm the love of his life or that we need to share with each other and lean on each other, blah blah blah.

And I can't tell you anymore if he's a bad guy or a good guy who did some bad things and I don't really even want to try to figure it out. All I can really conclude is that he's better off without me. If he's a bad guy, he needs a new mark and if he's a good guy who did some bad things then he deserves to be with someone who is excited about him and isn't full of resentments and pain.

I really just want out. I wish I didn't feel that way. I want to NOT want out, but that's not how it is.

That's why I never insisted on proof of NC with OW#1. Weirdly, I felt that it was unfair. I'm pretty sure I just can't do this; why should I take his OP away from him too?

It's just too late. It's not even about the sex: it's about the everything else.

It's about gaslighting me being so important that he was willing to let my psychiatrist put me on antipsychotics for 6 months (6 months I now can't remember) because I'm having "paranoid delusions" that my husband is cheating on me.

It's about deliberately engaging in a deceptive pattern of conduct for over half a decade.

It's about impregnating me SEVEN times while having an affair with another woman, then complaining about my body, the number of kids we have, that my career is on hold and I should be making more money...

It's about all the OTHER selfish behaviors that went along with the A (s?) like never helping out at home, randomly coming home drunk and late because of "happy hour" refusing to share his whole salary, and chalking it all up to depression and stress from the new baby or miscarriage or baby or house renovation or job change.

It's about him being an agent of chaos and me just being TIRED.

It's about him not showing up when there is an emergency and we need him. Sadly, now that he's done that time and time again we don't need him at all.

And there you go. He has trained me not to need him in any way.

Tryn -- good for you on the boundaries. I can't say that the next time I find myself in such a situation I'd do as well as you did.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 1:08 PM, July 7th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((((m33))))) Wow, you sound at a very low point at the moment. Not surprising when you feel you are managing everything on your own and trying to deal with his problems too. I was lucky that we had a sympathetic MC, it would have been better if FWH hadn’t lied….. but I still think it was more beneficial than not. At least I got my say without H talking over me or turning things around and having me think it was somehow still all my fault. Changing your IC is a very good idea. Although isn’t she the one who is monitoring your bi-polar episodes? If so, will you still use her for that or transfer all to the new IC? Well, good luck anyway with finding the best one around. You need someone to help you get upright again.

I can't figure out where forgiveness just becomes codependence.
It doesn’t. Forgiveness is supposed to free you, not tie you into co-dependence. Forgiveness is not giving up or allowing one partner to take priority over the other, it allows you to move on in a positive way. Just for me though, I don’t think I will ever forgive my WH and actually, I’m okay about that.

Another saying I am reminded of: Never allow someone to be your priority while allowing yourself to be their option. Maybe you should have this taped over your mirror and repeat it out loud.


Please tell me if I have stepped over the line or I have read your situation wrong. Some of the things your H has said to you and the way he has treated you at times throughout your marriage makes me think he is an extremely selfish, vain and arrogant man who not only has no regard for your feelings but voices something he actually believes. It has me raging. How he has the audacity to behave like that is beyond the pale and I don’t think my H has ever, ever complained about my body post-pregnancy, so I am truly shocked. I really am. How shallow can you get? Well, I guess you can, seeing as this is the opinion of his IC:

He said WH is not "an introspective guy"
Wow. Maybe he wouldn’t like himself if he examined too closely. Do you think he also has NPD? Either that or some other undiagnosed condition that a)prevents him from empathising as in aspergers and b) makes him say offensive statements as in tourettes. Although I don’t think it’s your job to figure him out if he wont at least make an effort.

It's about him not showing up when there is an emergency and we need him. Sadly, now that he's done that time and time again we don't need him at all.
And there you go. He has trained me not to need him in any way.

Well (she said sadly), that happened here too. I think you’ll find most of us in this forum are “copers”. In one respect, it’s good because we know we would manage our lives without them and, IDK about your H, but mine can’t fix a toaster, iron a shirt, work out the clock/radio/alarm or the dvd, top up the radiator system, I could go on…. And he’s not that good in a medical emergency either. Good job we never had anything that was a real emergency requiring a 999 call. He used the car washing sponge when DS2 took all the skin off his knee.

Okay, back to you hon. Is Baby Paddy sleeping through most nights? In other words, are you getting enough quality sleep? Sleep depravation is the worst thing, I think, when the children are small. Does your H help in with them at all? And sometimes, you just have to either tell them straight what you need to keep this relationship together (and he is saying the right things – sometimes – but not following through), or structure your life without him. Whether or not he is living under the same roof. You take care of you if he’s not going to.

I’m sorry, this post is all over the place. I just wish I could be there to help you out. All I can do is send cyber hugs and buckets of white light (as Lost Heart would say). (((((m33)))))

eta - I knew I'd have to edit!!

[This message edited by UKgirl at 1:10 PM, July 7th (Wednesday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 1:15 PM, July 7th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((mm334455))

I hear and feel the resignation in your post. It seems there is simply not solid part to even begin to try and build a healthy relationship. I am so sorry that you find yourself here, and that your H is unable, or even willing, to try to be better for you.

It's about gaslighting me being so important that he was willing to let my psychiatrist put me on antipsychotics for 6 months (6 months I now can't remember) because I'm having "paranoid delusions" that my husband is cheating on me.

I can relate to you on this one mm334455, FWW did the same to me in 2007. She was done with OM#1, beginning with OM#2. I suspected A with OM#1, but she and a well-meaning friend talked me out of the A. She told me I was broken, and if I wanted the marriage to work, I needed to get myself fixed. I was having panic attacks, went on medication (Xanax and Lexapro), and did IC. I was an emotional wreck, and she stood by, watched, and never threw me a line. Getting past that treatment from her may ultimately be more difficult than accepting the A’s.

All I can really conclude is that he's better off without me.

I don’t know about that statement, but how are, or will, you be better off, or at least not worse off, with him?

On my end, FWW had her IC session today. I guess he pretty much called her out on her behavior, re: relinquishing control and responsibility for how she feels. She seems to accept his advice and rebukes pretty well, we will see. She did not want to describe much on the phone; we may talk about it some tonight.

Tryn,

I’m not sure what you mean by her trying to “manage” you?

What FWW did in the past, and I fear her doing again, is just tell me what she thinks I want to hear to keep me from being upset. This is even a bigger issue now that I actually get mad and express anger. In the past, I just swallowed it all. I worry that she only says and does what she does to placate me and waits for the whole A thing to blow over. She is doing the IC, I do see change, she does seem receptive to the change, and I just have this nagging fear. Just need more time I guess.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 1:25 PM, July 7th (Wednesday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3968 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 1:57 PM, July 7th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's the cognitive dissonance that just kills me.

The way I experience him as a person is so at odds with these facts.

And I will say that these facts are all the past -- and there have been improvements.

I think my medication is wrong. i'm taking generic; and I don't think it's working so well.

The new IC is a top expert in bipolar from Johns Hopkins. I'm sure he'll get me squared away.

Look, my WH was horrendously abused. Considering what I know, and what he'll just say in casual conversation, it's much worse than I can imagine. And it's not a story -- it fits with the personalities in his family and his aunt has said she wanted to take him away from his parents, etc. etc.

The thing is: I can't be his great white hope. I need a partner. He's taking steps to be that guy. I need him to take leaps. Everyone says baby steps, baby steps. With his raft of issues baby steps just aren't going to get us there.

It is a VERY VERY sad and scary situation for 4 small children when their STABLE parent is a person with a serious mental illness. It's so easy to see from my recent posts how precarious it can be to be "well" when you have a serious mental illness.

One thing I do know: I'm going to the pharmacy this afternoon and getting some NON-generic medication. Jeesh.

And one of the big reasons for the new IC is also that in a way she got me into this mess. I told her I thought WH was cheating and she didn't believe me and then every time he was a jerk it was all about how he didn't know how to be a good husband because of his FOO etc etc and there was so much effort going into do all these positive things to change the relationship when really I should have been snooping and calling a spade a spade. All that years of work that produced little change such wasted effort. Dday -- that produced some semblance of the man I thought I'd married.

I get where it comes from. I don't care where it comes from. If he needs to know where it comes from to fix it, then fine. If all he needs is a psychological flame thrower that's ok too. It's just got to stop, all of it, that's all. I have plenty of children.

I think I will write that on my mirror. Might do WH some good to see it each AM.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 2:56 PM, July 7th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

m33....
I am so sorry for your pain...but, it does sound as if you are taking charge of your life...making decisions..that's good.
Definitely a new IC is in order....but, this time interview the IC over the phone. Not all ICs have experience dealing with infidelity and sexual addiction.
here is a link for an organization that deals with SA....
my friend's therapist is part of this group.
That author of 'Your Sexually Addicted Spouse' B. Steffens is also a therapist that belongs to this group.
You can find therapists in your area via this web site.
At least you'll know that the therapist keeps up with the latest research on SA.
and.. I'm a little confused about your meds...
I go to a psychiatrist for my meds .... he spends a bit of time discussing my state of mind but mostly he's just monitoring the meds.
My therapist ( a PHD in psychology) cannot prescribe meds...and she does talk to my psychiatrist at times and did talk to our MC when we went to one... but my therapist is the one that spends a lot of time dealing with my issues....
here's the link for the group:
http://sash.net/directory.html

[This message edited by njgal480 at 11:48 PM, July 7th (Wednesday)]


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 3:58 PM, July 7th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

M3... it is ok for you to be angry after what's happened to you... it's ok to cry. Please don't be so quick to judge yourself to think you are "out of the norm" (ie.. serious mental illness) after what you've been through. It sounds like you are loving a man that is full of selfish greed… not sure he’s doing enough.. but none of our spouses are doing enough! We all make mistakes in life and I’ve always thought we all have what in today’s society calls “mental illness”… but reality is… this is life. Your Dday is so soon and it appears to me you are following the same ole path I did… My W only went to IC about 3 or 4 time.. MC a few times.. She would say stuff like, “I have a degree in psychology and studied all this”.. “I know what I am suppose to do.. blah blah blah..” But the reality was she didn’t know squat. But Retrouvaille woke her ass up… Especially after I was telling her that these birds kept flying into windows.. and I thought it was a message from God… Then at that right point in time.. Wham.. that angle flew right into the window while at the program.. I said.. SEE! Anybody had a bird fly into your window lately?

We can only heal ourselves… We cannot rely on our spouses to heal us… We can only keep our own boundaries… #1 should be… we will NOT be abused. Abuse is some ego maniac trying to think he deserves a hot body.. Refusing to be the right partner.. not sharing.. not wanting to give you gifts (taking care of the house) etc.. etc.. Not being faithful. not being romantic... But heck.. we must communicate in a loving way that love the things we want and have the strength to enforce them. What man or woman knows how to communicate like that without practice? With some training? Not many folks are raised to communicate in a loving way… We all know how to in some respect, but day in and day out it is one hell of a task…

If you need your H to be a true partner, then he must know what a good partner does. He ain’t gonna learn it from his drinking buddies at happy hour.

Your happiness is much more valuable then having built only $20K, $30K or already married 2 times… That does not matter and you are so young. The right partner will make you richer in so many other ways.. Search for the right man if you need too.. They are out there and single too…

Please don’t mistake my encouraging you to leave… I’m encouraging you to try and work toward knowing the best possible M… Change is good for folks like us…

[This message edited by trynhard at 4:21 PM, July 7th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 9:59 AM, July 8th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks everyone. Thanks especially to you, tryn. And I appreciate what you said about not meaning that you're encouraging me to leave. See -- that was the exact problem with my IC; she was encouraging me to leave. I'm not saying that might not be the eventual outcome -- but it just seemed a little premature.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 10:11 AM, July 8th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey. I'm back & trying to catch up.
M3 - sorry to see the torment of the past week - I'm glad you are switching IC & meds & hope that helps you.
As for me- I'm definitely unhappy. I feel like all I have is to choose between the lesser of 2 evils. I do not believe I can truly be happy in my marriage, ever. By the same token, I think I would be devastated if my H left or I left him, etc.
It's just hard to be truly happy. My H has planned a night out for us tomorrow & I'm not even excited. It just sounds like more work trying to look happy.
This sucks.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 10:24 AM, July 8th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

At least he planned something, Allgood. My husband hasn't done that even once since Dday. Even though I've told him a gazillion times that quality time is my primary love language.

And can you imagine, under those circumstances, and knowing you've begged your spouse over and over to find just a little time for the two of you to be together, that your spouse has been using their vacation time and sick days to take off work to be with another person?

Sigh.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 10:28 AM, July 8th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Makes me sick.
That reminds me of how I blasted my H a few weeks ago when he complained he never gets enough sleep (which was in response to my complaint that he continued to sleep in while I dealt with all 4 kids by myself) and I couldn't help but point out how he used to get up much earlier than he had to when he was sneaking in his F-time with OW before work.

(And - he only planned something because it's my birthday, but still - the first time he took the initiative to get a babysitter.)


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 10:36 AM, July 8th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But he planned something today. Ok? Baby steps . . .

And Happy Birthday!!!!


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 1:14 PM, July 8th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgoodnamesgone
I do not believe I can truly be happy in my marriage, ever. ... I think I would be devastated if my H left or I left him, etc

Is that an oxymoron?
like this...

anyway.. I hope you both do try and have a good time on your date. I have an idea to make the evening a little more exciting.. Maybe you both could be ready to talk about the 2 or 3 most happiest times in ya'lls M? Surprise him and hold his hands while you tell him your first story.. don't forget any detail...see what that gets ya.

M3.. My W says our first IC tried to get her "leave" me... I think he thought I was the one unable to forgive her, unable to handle the A.. who knows if he will be right or wrong... But right now, I keep doing the forgiveness things... It seems to be working... IC are people too and can be right or wrong... maybe the IC is just trying to move you?

Oh well.. have a good day.

[This message edited by trynhard at 1:33 PM, July 8th (Thursday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 2:06 PM, July 8th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've been lurking and had not much time to do that either. My mother has been staying with us for the past week, and with her bpd and not she's older, it's very very hard. It's not the physical stuff, but she mentally and emotionally wears me down. When speaking to my IC, she says that I am a conflict avoider, that's why I try to "fix" things, or allow others to treat me badly to keep the peace. She agreed with me that I feel I might be doing this as a form of having some kind of control....I can "fix" it...I'll take the blame, so I can "fix" it. KWIM? I'm just sharing these thoughts if it might help someone else.

Ats: Please keep posting. I love what you are doing, you are going through a long, painful and arduous process with your wife, and both of you are reflecting on the ups and downs of this process. As an objective observer of what you are posting, I can really see the wonderful progress you guys are making. Your WW really seems to be trying, and your discussion of her "mananging" you, hit a something in me. Perhaps it might be like I feel....to avoid conflict, it's the only way she knows how to deal with someone who is angry or upset. "Fixing" it by saying what the other person wants to hear. Not to shut you up, but to put away the conflict, to stop you from feeling angry, or simply the only way she knows to make you feel better? I agree this is not the way to deal with it, I'm guilty of doing it all the time. Perhaps this is something you guys can discuss when neither of you are angry and figure out what would be the best way for both of you to deal with it.

M3: I'm so sorry to hear your pain. What horrible things he's said and done!! My WH also told me for years that I am depressed and should be on anti-depressants!
I think seeing a new IC will be the best thing for you. The one you are with now sounds like she has her own mess to deal with and is not helping you at all.
Right now, I think the best thing for you to do is to take care of yourself with your meds and your IC. If Wh is helping out at all now, that is good. Whether or not you stay in the future, FOR RIGHT NOW, it may be best to get yourself together, take care of Baby Paddy and the other dear children.
Someone here, (Tryn?) said that if you are feeling consistently a certain way for months, then that may be your answer.

I have to go, my mother is asking me what I'm typing and making another demand on my time. <sigh>
I'll try to log on later.

{{{{tribe}}}}


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 6:28 PM, July 8th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

allgoodnamesgone,

do not believe I can truly be happy in my marriage, ever. By the same token, I think I would be devastated if my H left or I left him,

Could you recover from that devastation, or are you truly damned if you do and damned if you don't?

It just sounds like more work trying to look happy.

Then don't. Be honest about how you feel. You work to look happy, he assumes you are happy, you get more mad that he does not understand how unhappy you are

Tryn, meatless balls, sounds like me

honest, thank you for the encouragement. So at least your Mother's demands take your mind of WS?


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3968 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 8:56 PM, July 8th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Let's see.
First of all, I'm feeling better.
My H must have noticed my change in mood & gave me a kiss for no reason at all.
Then, I put a ridiculous song on my Ipod & went running. I giggled the whole way. I was amused, even if I looked like a fool.

Ats:
Could I recover if my H & I split up? I think so, that's why I've been wondering if that wouldn't be the best option for me. When I think back to other occasions when I was so mad I told my H it was over & when I remember how I felt after the dust settled, however, I think it's easy to think I can do it without him & another thing to actually do it. The truth is I felt very scared & lonely to the point where I changed my mind the next day on both occasions.

Tryn: meatless meatballs - ok - yes that is ridiculous. Lol.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 8:53 AM, July 9th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgoodnamesgone... I am 100% sure WE ALL would be just fine without our spouses. Yes, it would be scary to take the first leap. It’s like jumping into a cool pool… you know that first cold shock is going to be there… but then your body gets used to it... but then we enter a new relationship. Will that heal us? Yes, I think so. Because our brains will take that bad stuff place it away...

But then we start a new relationship and it will go through the same ole stages... I have seen it time and time again. You end up in right back in stage of unhappiness again... unless you happened to find a person that knows a healthy relationship is... I can say I am fully trained in that... But implementation is most difficult.

But if we do make a decision to R...

The hardest part about R is making that decision to forgive… and allowing life to go on in peace… I didn’t know really what forgiveness was until I read a couple books about it… See, forgiveness is a process and it takes as long as you need to take.. I have no deadlines. Let me go over each one…

Make the choice to forgive – This is a matter of telling yourself. I will forgive my spouse. It is a choice to say this to yourself and be positive. If you get negative, then say it again, I am making the choice to forgive. If you are not going to start by making this choice, then DON”T R… I say go file for D and put yourself out of misery.

Make the deliberate and irrevocable choice not to tell anyone what they did – This is a choice I make today. This takes some real brain and mind strength. It also takes some time as I slipped occasionally. It also goes against what so many others want you to do and say. Today, I do not need to tell anyone that does not already know. SI is the only place I go to discuss my W’s A. One day, I will leave SI and this part of my forgiveness will be completed. I have decided that I may say something to others but only if it will somehow give them confidence when in my same situation.

Be pleasant to them should you be around them – This is those desirables I speak about. As time goes on, you get real good at letting the small stuff roll out of you mind. You just have to want to do it. In a true R, our spouses have made the choice to now be a good person. They will say things like, “Tiger Woods is scum”. I can think or say, Yes, you hippocrate… but, we may think negatively, but we “act” positively. Truth is like I say… they are trying to be good people pointing out right and wrong. We stick to the desirables. We cannot always control what pops in our minds, but we can control what we say or do. By doing this, it gives our spouse confidence we have forgiven. If we don’t forgive, why in the world would anyone want to be around someone that has not forgiven? If you cannot forgive, you are not going to do the desirables I speak about all the time.

If conversation ensues, say that which would set them free from guilt – This might be a where your spouse starts to say things like… “You will never forgive me”… your response should always be, “I have made the choice to forgive you. I cannot always control my feelings, but it will be alright. We all make mistakes in life.” Or “That was yesterday”… or “I am satisfied you are a good spouse today?” say things like that to make sure they know no need to feel guilt. I would imagine adultery guilt could be very hard to overcome.

Let them feel good about themselves – I think this can be achieved through Affirmation. I’ve told my wife I forgive her many times. I have told her I am glad we stayed together… I have told her I like who she is… many compliments.

Protect them from their greatest fears – I think this is commitment. They must feel we are NOT going to get revenge or we are going to leave. We must tell them often that we are committed to the marriage. We must communicate!! Communicate!! In our misery stage of our marriages, we clam up, we walk away in silence, the unknown is so scary. We do things that show them the future is living on… We close the separate checking account we once opened at dday… try and be romantic, do the desirables that eliminate fear.

Keep it up today, tomorrow, this year and next – This is hard. Back in February this year was when I made it 3 weeks without saying anything about the A. Then I went a month… then I went 2 months… It has since May or so since we last discussed anything about her A… I have had to leave the room because my feelings and emotions almost broke doing things we do as part of forgiving.

Pray for them – Yes.. I do it. It’s simple… God give me strength today to overcome my trauma. Give me strength to be a good man, nothing but love. Give me strength to forgive and fear no future…

It is hard to forgive someone for adultery. It takes time and steps. Your mind has change permanently and you have this protective memory burned into a part of it… nature is trying to protect you from further harm and you must see good things, day in and day out, for the part to be placed in a peaceful mode.

Oh well… off to work on doing something desirable for my W today…

[This message edited by trynhard at 8:58 AM, July 9th (Friday)]


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