Airports, her taking Xanax for flight nerves, hotel rooms, these are all consistent triggers for me. We are both hoping that this trip will help us to over-write some of the old memories and associations with both have. It is a little scary that there is nowhere for either of us to storm off too if we get into a big fight.
On the happier side, FWW has been working in a job from hell for nearly a year after being let go from the job where she worked with OM#2. She now has 2 offers for new jobs, both she would like to do, both she knows and likes the people there, and both for slightly more money. No matter what, a better and more rewarding work life awaits her when we return.
We have both been at our emotional limits the last 2 weeks. Hopefully this trip will be some secluded time to relax and reconnect.
and those triggers should get easier with time, as do all memories of past hurts, disappointment and losses....there will always be a bit of sadness as it is when you think of a loved one that has passed from a disease...there is always so much pain along that path....but you put that pain behind you and you focus on the good of the relationship you had with that person, including all the memories that transpired before...
allgood: let us know how those soft words work out with mr allgood..
otherwise it seems very quiet in here today...hope thats a good thing
honest we are all here for ya hon.....praying tomorrow comes really soon for ya and mr dishonest can go back overseas...
If you are uncomfortable with your H being away so much, why dont you just tell him how this makes you feel. Yes, I know this will make you feel vulnerable but look at whats to gain. Either he will take on board what you say and does something positive, or maybe he wont. But at least you know where you stand. It could well be that he doesnt think that it bothers you anymore...that you dont much care if he is not around so much. The thing is you wont know unless you talk about it!
All the best with the trip. I hope you are able to do some exorcising. But most of all, I hope you are both able to just chill out with each other. You know what helped us? We would make a pact not to talk about any A-related stuff for a certain time. Good luck.
We share a dday.
The 1 year antiversary sucks.
It comes after a year full of pain and shock and just plain heartache. I know its a few weeks away but I bet you are acutely aware of it (as am I). What are your plans? As you and H dont seem to be on particularly good terms, try to make plans to care for you. How about going away for a night, let him watch the kids?
Tribe, remember last week I went for an interview? Well they offered me the position.
I have yet to accept as I want to see what they are bringing to the table first, but its starting to feel pretty good.
H's response wasnt that great which dampened things - he is a master of the backhanded compliment.
But I am trying to enjoy it.
Thank you for all your warm wishes and good vibes.
Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.
I call a "trigger" when I think about my W's infidelity. I have thrown out most pictures that causes triggers… But I am not going to throw all out… No doubt, when I see OM's office…With every public figure caught cheating, I'm going to think about it... I am sure even if I left, filed D to my W... those thoughts would pop in my brain. It is now a part of me... it is who I am today. And as Iwant says… some are not so hurtful today… As for being depressive, yes, I expect it. But not tonight when I get home from a 3 day trip…. Lol…
Allgood.. one more tip… if you replace “feel” with “think” and the sentence makes senses… then that is not a feeling. Try never to say “things” that you assume your H has done, feels or thinks… It really is a good way to discuss things… you might find the conversations end up with solutions.
IC asked me if I think he loves me now, but its diff for me to give a straight answer. At times, it feels like it but then at times, it doesnt. I dont know if he will get over losing OW'2 cos I think that she did break his heart. I dont think he will fall in love with me cos historically, he has asigned so many negative attributes to me (to justify his actions and thoughts) that I strongly believe that it has blinded him to much of what I have done/do. How can you love someone when you think that they are out to hurt/destroy/manipulate/use/ punish you?
And then conversely I ask myself how I can love him now when I think the same of him now?
It could also be that June is coming up (not only is it antiversary#1,our wedding anniversary but also the anniversary of my DS's birth and death - he would have been 12).
Miracle, I feel like you lately. Kind of jaded about my marriage. How do you do it? I guess I need to find something else to replace what it's importance used to be in my life. I'm sure that would help.
All is well right now -- just busy at work catching up! I think I'll be taking some work home this weekend (ugh) but C'est la vie!
ETA -- saw IC yesterday; she didn't really help about the jaded but she did make me laugh. We mostly just enjoyed the baby -- it was a check to make sure my medication is OK more than anything else. I don't really need to see her that much anymore. Not pregnant. Figured out DH's major malfunction and can't fix it. Staying married. I mean, really, there's nothing left to resolve, KWIM?
You know, feelings are just feelings. A lot of times they don't really mean anything and they're a terrible way to make decisions.
[This message edited by m334455 at 3:43 PM, May 21st (Friday)]
all that being said, if the kids are really young and you do not want the marriage and you know that you will not regret ending it..then i am all for ending it...if the kids though are in puberty to midish teens...then you are talking about yet another scenario...
basically each marriage is different, each marriage brings its own set of circumstances, each marriage has it own issues before, during and after...and EVERYTHING needs to be taken into account....and the biggest most important weight on the decision or choices made are will this be one of regret....
so m3 you've got lots of questions to ask yourself, now that you baby is here and hopefully your hormones are regulated as is your other meds....lots of questions...and only you can answer them..
lh2: i am glad that you are posting again, i sense you need the connection....yes june totally sucks for you and i am so sorry for all your pain....so much to deal with....
are you going to mark your sons anniversary like you did last year including your other kids, that was so special and it puts something positive on an otherwise painful day...
i hope the job works out...and forget your wh, detach from him, he is all about himself, so of course he is not going to celebrate "you" and any and all you do and accomplish...you just keep getting your ducks lines up and try to keep that expectation level low to nil...and i know how hard that one is...its really hard to shake those expectations on certain levels....but for your ws as is mine, its very necessary for our ability to thrive...we will survive no matter what, but we need to thrive as well my friend...
And then conversely I ask myself how I can love him now when I think the same of him now?
and i ask you, do you love him, all of him, all of who he is...or do you love who you thought he always was?
yesterday we had another successful g2g here...this one was with nofun and honest and myself...allgood couldn't make it and was missed...
well we sat for hours and hours....about 4 hours talking, talking and talking....
we had a very interesting interruption of sorts...there was a man at the next table who was alone and listening to our conversation...turns out he was also a bs, but a very bitter man...he was also a pyschoanalyst...and i don't think he was a very good one at that...this man insisted that every bs sees all the signs but choose to deny them or ignore them...i had a bit of an issue with this one...and he also claims that reconcilliation is IMPOSSIBLE in all cases....talk about jaded....and he was still a very sad sad man....we all felt his pain....he had great sadness in his eyes as well as a few tears....he also gave us a few laughs....
all in all it was a great g2g...
oh i also encouraged fun to post more...she says she get hung up on the writing part...but dip i told her a good case of disptickitis would do her good!!!!
off to do dinner
You know how it is always said on SI that there is something wrong with WS and not the BS that they chose to have an affair? It really struck me as true after meeting in RL.
As Miracle said in her post, there was a man at the next table from us. He said in a respectful and truly honest way, that he could tell from our conversation that we were all intelligent, sensitive and honest women.
WE ARE!!! Also, Nofun, Miracle, and Allgood are truly beautiful women, inside and out. Thier WS's are idiots to take even the smallest chance of losing them!!
I do want to take the time to reply to more posts, but as we were discussing in our g2g, that sometimes we can't get the prior pages easily when we are posting in the little box, it's hard to refer to the prior posts. Miracle tried to explain the way she does it, but I'm not that patient!! I have to take notes in longhand, which I want to do.
WH is leaving tomorrow night. We discussed some things, didn't get far. But, I'm learning how to "handle" him better
That's sad, though and unfortunate. I believed all these years we had a relationship, but now I see his true self, he does have so many NPD traits, and DS 15 even suggested to me, very seriously that WH might also have ADD, which does seem to make sense too. (DS 11 has a slight case of ADD)
WH seems incapable of having a normal relationship with anyone. It's all superficial. The crazy thing is that I knew a lot of his faults, and still accepted him the way he was/ appeared to be, but it was just the tip of the iceberg. I do still love him, or who I thought he was and am still struggling with that or trying to reconcile that in my head.
For me, I'm beginning to realize that there is no black or white answer, no all or nothing.....R or D with WH. As Allgood said, I do want a closure, but that is not going to happen quickly or even magically as much as I want it. It will be a process.
The good news is that I am getting stronger and one of the main reasons is you, my dear friends and "support group". Thank you and God bless you all.
Hugs to all of you!
Lol, dip.....not babyseal on BBQ!! That gave me a chuckle!
this man insisted that every bs sees all the signs but choose to deny them or ignore them
My friend was telling me not to trust OM, I would chuckle and say no way. When I did once bring it up to my W, she grabbed my face with both hands and said in a firm voice... "I am not..."
At one point I had a GPS tracker in car.. after 2 days I felt so "guilty", I took it out. It take solid proof. I think if my friend would have been more direct and say... "I think you W is having an A with OM"... You need to track them... I would have found out years ago... but for whatever reason, it just wasn't time.
and he also claims that reconcilliation is IMPOSSIBLE in all cases
For me, I still think about leaving... I work hard to focus on all the positives today.. I do have a good M right now. It is about as good as anyone could ask. But I am still hurt, still in grief, depressed.... But I understand it, I know it, I work on myself, I fight it... day by day I improve. One day, I will be able to leave our group in total peace. Right now, it will be M to my W... We'll see...
Hey.. My prayers are with you today Honest...
Peace to all....
[This message edited by trynhard at 5:16 AM, May 22nd (Saturday)]
Miracle/Honest & Fun:
Sorry I couldn't meet up with you guys. I'm glad you had a good time. If you get together over the summer, let me know - I won't have to worry about getting home in time to pick up the kids from school.
You really do sound good. As far as still loving him - I know. That's hard. Someone on another forum said they think women stay in love until they find a new love. What do you think about that?
Sounds interesting to me.
As devoted as I remain to my husband, I can honestly say - I've been very close to checking a dating type site to see who my perfect match is! But, seriously - would you consider it? It might help - if nothing else - to help you see what a good catch YOU are so you can get your groove back. (And - btw thank you for your "inside & out" beautiful comments - very sweet.)
one more tip… if you replace “feel” with “think” and the sentence makes senses… then that is not a feeling
I tried practicing that a bit. (I do not know why I feel so free to admit this when it clearly makes me look like a loser.lol). But anyway - I can't do it!
I will reflect upon this during my race today (& hope I don't drift away too much & at least stay on the course -lol), but I may need to get an ear piece & have you coach my conversations with my H. I am picturing it in my head now - I don't know how patient a person you are - but I'm picturing you getting very frustrated, very quickly. Lol. I will be thinking of you when I try to do this. But, seriously - thank you for the tip - it's sound advice, yet again.
Ats: this advice may be too late - but don't worry about needing some space while on vacation. I was on vacation with my H's entire family (huge) on DDay. Trust me, you can always find space. Just open the door & walk out. Be sure to let us know how it went.
Dip: grilled pizza. I am going to try that.
I was so grateful to meet iwant and honest in real life. Allgood, next time I come for a visit, hopefully we can g2g again and I will be able to meet you.
We have some of the most kind, honest, loyal, compassionate people on SI and I had the pleasure of meeting two of them.
reconcilliation is IMPOSSIBLE in all cases..
This struck a cord with me that I can't shake. I know in my heart this is not true, but for me, I find it very difficult to think of having a happy M. I have so many doubts. I still see myself as leaving the M.
I've been very close to checking a dating type site to see who my perfect match is! But, seriously - would you consider it?
As soon as I log off of SI, I'm going to check out match.com. I'll let you know how it goes!!
Maybe I'm just not as devoted to my M as I'd like to be. I'm afraid of bringing down the walls and getting hurt AGAIN. I don't think my heart can take it.
I am still hurt, still in grief, depressed....
Honest - my thoughts are with you today.
We spent a somewhat pleasant day together yesterday. I just had such a sad feeling inside. If we just spent a superficial day together walking around an outside mall, talking about "pleasantries" it's ok. WH can be good company.
But WH finally left. DS 15 couldn't wait until he left, although DS 11 is sad. I am relieved. It's more like WH was an out of town visitor that you have to cater to and are glad when they are gone so things can go back to normal.
I'm not really catering to him like I did. I'm trying to put me and the kids first and just treating him like a guest. It's helping me detach.
Like Tryn, there are still times when I am still grieving and in a lot of pain. But now, I can control it more and not break down and cry uncontrollably.
Nofun, I understand what you are saying about seeing yourself leaving the marriage. I believe that there comes a time when we may feel a little numb. It's probably a defense mechanism to give ourselves a break from all the pain.
LOL Allgood, I am NOT ready to look at another man. To tell the truth, I think that's how I got involved with my current husband. I was so crushed and down with my first xWH, self esteem in the toilet, etc that I put up with too much stuff with my current WH.
It would be nice to get some attention though. But I have to heal more for myself or I'm afraid I'll be attracted to another man that is not good for me.
Thank you everyone!
need to change the subject now and stop this useless rambin...need to deflect the fustration to make it go away...sooooo
allgood...how did you do in todays race?
honest..i am so so happy he left...i know lots of tension went with him...
I have so many doubts. I still see myself as leaving the M.
you are supposed to have doubts..your ws has not earned anything back as yet...and i too can understand the thoughts of leaving....just remember leaving while you still have unfinished business is leaving too soon and will only bring regret...once you feel you have exhausted all of it you will just know...you will feel a sense of peace just knowing that the decision and choice has been made in your heart...but not a minute sooner...and yes it sucks that we cant do something to just move this along...that is actually a power the ws has to help us, but from what i have seen some if not most of the ws's are incapable of providing this help due to their own issues...the rare ws who owns their shit immediately and "gets it" is sadly what is needed for us to expediate some of this god forsaken process.....
i think what makes it more difficult too to make a permanent decision is when you see the ws is actually doing more right then wrong, even though there are still wrongs, even though (s)he is not getting all that needs to be gotten....so you end up in this limbo of will (s)he get this and do what "I" NEED...or will (s)he not so that a decision can be made based on all the choices that were made and not made....
oh geez i am ramblin again...
think its time for me to sign off, whether i will be back in a few or tomorrow...who knows i seem to be in a strange state of mind...
I have thrown out all of his t-shirts that H bought when he was in Vegas. I threw out all of his underwear, his cologne, his clothes he wore when with OW, my bed, my bedroom furniture. Next on the list is the car and then I want to move out of this God forsaken town. I feel like a need a clean break, a do over. I am going to have a bon fire though and go through all the cards I've saved from H throughout the years and burn them all. They have no meaning anymore.
It just felt good to post that!
allgoodnamesgone, how did the race go, were you able to focus enough to stay on the course?
iwantamiracle, fww and kids occassional do or install something with global impact to our computer format and operation, it drives me nuts, so I feel for you.
For me, I still think about leaving... I work hard to focus on all the positives today.. I do have a good M right now. It is about as good as anyone could ask. But I am still hurt, still in grief, depressed....
sigh, I had started thinking of you as a shining example of hope , it is hard to know that someone who has worked as hard as you is still struggling.
Well for us the first day of travel went OK. I do have fun with FWW and I remember why I was attracted to her. Everything seemingly triggers thinking about her travelling with OM#2. Did she lean against him on the plane to sleep like this, am I "chatting" enough, she is being extra neat in the hotel room, is this because she told me OM#2 would criticise her as messy in hotel room?
TMI warning: The ghost of OM#2 is still in bed with us, at least with me. I used to be carefree with love-making, and I hate this new intrusion. I feel like we are both trying too hard, she is being overly complementary (ohh, twice I never cum twice) to make me feel better. I am having trouble feeling love and an intimate connection, we are having fun, but something is missing. Maybe it was just a long travel day. Maybe that is why she looks so old and tired.
I am envious of those of you who are able to g2 irl. Thanks to all for reading and posting.
Example: I tried to tell my H this morning that we didn't really do anything together yesterday despite having the day off. H's response: well, we're trying to get stuff done around here, etc. My perception: always found time to call ow 2000x/day, found the motivation to get up & go to "work" early because you wanted to see her, etc. despite all the things that needed to get done around here.
I told him that if there was genuine interest in me he would have found the time to express it. He thinks I'm getting upset over nothing, but he understands why. I told him I have this idea of the way the 2 of them were together & when I don't see that in our relationship it makes me feel doomed, because our "Mr. & Mrs. Married with Kids" lifestyle before obviously left something to be desired for him.
Anyhoo. I tried to use my "feeling" statements Tryn - I think I got at least 1 in there.
Said he loves me & "will try harder". I can't tell you how many times I've heard this. It's not even comforting anymore. (Meanwhile my point is that I don't FEEL like he's all that "into" us because of these things that aren't happening. These are things that I don't necessarily need, but I think should be there if this was really for him. IDK if that makes sense - I don't think he gets what I mean.
I was so crushed and down with my first xWH, self esteem in the toilet, etc that I put up with too much stuff with my current WH
Fun: Holy cr*p! Lol. I cannot believe you threw all of that stuff out. I hope it makes you feel better.
Miracle - sounds like you need a "time out". I went to the mall last night for 1 hr & I was in a completely different state of mind.
As to my race - I did stay on course -lol- and I came in 4th in my age group & beat my younger (by A LOT) male co-worker (which is always fun).
It just felt good to post that!
It just felt good to post that!
this put a smile on my face...
Purge and get rid...
purging is really good for the soul....i believe its getting rid of the toxins in our life that bring us down...i only wish it really rid us of those toxins permanently...but unfortunately unless you have dementia or alzhiemers...memory can run deep....although i believe with time the memories can be stored in the back of our minds eventually...not always being at the forefront of everything we do, see, hear, touch and feel.....
when you get rid of the car i think you should get a really snazzy one in its place...a red convertible i think would look good on you....
I am having trouble feeling love and an intimate connection, we are having fun, but something is missing.
if you are at least still having fun maybe with time and healing the rest will come....i get the impression that you are holding back some, you both are....fear drives that...
Maybe it was just a long travel day. Maybe that is why she looks so old and tired.
you know this really struck me, when i look at pfm he too looks really old and tired....i think this entire experience is so exhausting both mentally and physically....i see the pain in his face all the time...and sadly i don't feel compassion for him at all...if anything i feel like he deserves to be miserable...and this is something that will keep me from moving forward in my own healing, i know this.....i tell myself all the time the right things to do and say but then he opens his mouth and says something inappropriate or puts his foot in his mouth and i go right back to square one on the forgiveness/acceptance path.....i try so hard to have zero expectations....but there are certain expectations that i do have, like i expect to be heard...i expect simple questions to be answered...and i mean simple like "pfm, why didn't you use the screws that came with the thing"...that particular question got an answer within 2 attempts of his answering...but there were so many of those questions yesterday, so many i can't even remember one of them...they were so inconsequential...but every question was met with an answer that never answered the original question...this fustrated me to no end, because there was no end....it got to the point i didn't want to ask anything...and then to boot the idiot was muttering what a good man he is, how he is a changed man, how he loves me and these mutters took place all day long, even when playing a game with the kids, he starts to mutter....my kids roll their eyes half the time...its just nuts...sometimes i really believe he is nuts...like he went over the edge...he has such a tremendous fear of losing me....yet this fear still keeps him stuck in his dishonest ways...its so weird....detaching with this muttering fool is both easy and difficult...difficult because when he mutters i get angry and anger does nothing for healthy detaching....i'm sorry ats...i am ramblin again...i will stop now...just so you know i am actually forcing myself to stop because i think i could go on and on and on..
i really am a walking doozy today.. ....
and i have to start another post after this because i can't do quotey things...
[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 10:43 AM, May 23rd (Sunday)]
I told him that if there was genuine interest in me he would have found the time to express it. He thinks I'm getting upset over nothing, but he understands why.
i understand where you are coming from, and i also understand somewhat what he is doing...he is doing what he's always done....he doesn't get it that you need that extra effort on his part to show you that you matter more, that you come first and foremost that you are truly the one and only.....he probably feels like since he is still there that is enough for you to know how he feels, not realizing at all that that really is only the tip of the iceberg of what you now need....hopefully though with you opening up to him with your feelings the way tryn has told you, he will not take the defense and instead take the proactive approach to giving you what you need....your ws spouse strikes me as the type that needs the seeds to be planted...one at a time...otherwise he goes on the defense which shuts him down...
fourth in your race...yippee...don't you just love being able to say that you beat someone younger...
o.k. allgood i will take that time out now...