it is totally miserable when the kids act out...and it seems that no matter how old they are they turn right back into kids again, especially when wounded....
now, i think you need to put this into perspective and i also think you owe him an apology for shoving him...the rest i am sure he had coming,....and of course he sounds like his mother, she raised him, just like your kids will also sound just like you do to your wife..thats the way it is in every house...granted there are some children who sound more like one parent over another...again that is every house...put this into perspective...and what did you want your wife to do, granted it would be nice when one parent backs up another..so if that was what you were seeking, i understand that...it could also be her staying out of your way...and then running away from the whole thing...
ats i would like to ask you another question, and please don't take this wrong...are you a pushover in your house...the soft one, the one who gives everyone whatever they need????...i wonder because it almost seems like you are being trampled on and not respected....if i am out of line, just let me have it, i can take it... ....
With all the stress that is going on in the house, everyone is affected in one way or another. If the kids are saying similar things as WW, is it possible they overheard WW saying something like this to you?
Many times a family member may become the "scapegoat" of the family.
You may possibly consider family therapy since your WW A has affected everyone. Some of these things need to brought out in the open and a family therapist might help help your family to talk or communicate better.
He told me how it is all about me and nothing he ever does is good enough. Almost word for word what FWW said after dday and SD#1 said at Xmas.
i also think you owe him an apology for shoving him...
I did that last night, which is what kicked off the string of what an awful father I am.
are you a pushover in your house...the soft one, the one who gives everyone whatever they need??
That was me all through the marriage. I always "understood" that the kids needed FWW's time more than me, or her work event was important, or she had to deal with her x first, or she needed to help her parents, sister, etc, or we need to buy this, the boys need that, I would try to figure how to work it out. I have been working at changing this area. In fact, the fight last night with older son is related to that. In the past, FWW has always undercut me in attempts to have the kids help around the house (laundry, dishes, cleaning). She could play the nice friend parent and I came off as the ogre. We have talked about this, in her childhood she felt responsible for everything due to her alcoholic mother. She thought childhood should be fun and free of responsibility. The result is some kids with huge sense of entitlement and little responsibility. FWW and I have agreed to start requiring the boys to help with chores around the house and to take some responsibility in their lives. So far, her progress towards this consists of not undermining me.
how old is older son?
He was 18 in March, as he reminded me last night. Told me all he needs from me is to pay for his college. It will be interesting; next week is a 2-day orientation with him at his college. For two weeks, he has not followed through and made excuses for getting things done that are required to schedule for classes when we go to orientation next week. Just the same as not returning equipment/books and fees paid at the high school prior to graduation.
Many times a family member may become the "scapegoat" of the family.
For most of the marriage FWW blamed me for her unhappiness, and she communicated that to all of the kids. She created an us versus him relationship. If anyone is unhappy or does not get/have what they want, then it is Atsenaotie's fault. She much preferred being friends with the kids to being an adult.
I agree that last night was a symptom of the anger I have been feeling since last Thursday.
FWW has withdrawn and is not talking to me beyond good night / good morning. She slept out on a couch last night. I need a break and so I am taking the boat offshore for an overnight tonight. This morning I told her I would see her sometime Saturday.
This family really does not need or want me.
Forgive: Thank you for your well wishes. For now, I'm just worried about the SI withdrawal... Lol.
[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 9:06 AM, June 18th (Friday)]
as for being better off without you, i know you know that is so far off the mark..but i can so relate to the wanting out, wanting out of everything and everybody...then i think what life would be like without my kids, and well i'm done for...
ats: i really believe its time you take a stand...and i also believe your son needs to hit a little bottom to realize how good he has it...even if it means his entry to college is screwed up...he says he doesn't need you then step back and let the child fall, at 18 he is not a man, he has no clue what it is to be a man, so i think its time for him to get some man lessons and the first one being responsible for himself...completely...and as for paying for college, he should be doing that tos its youryou are one of those parents who feels its your responsilbity then i suggest you lay down some rules, such as if he doesn't pass he no longer gets funded...i am sorry ats if i am coming down hard on you here, but i think its time for you to step up for yourself with all of them...i think you have suppressed you for way too long....
After a wife’s betrayal
The extremely hard decisions, choices, and pronouncement.
That pain during the trauma is excruciating.
The loss of something you never get back.
You accept life with a prosthetic
and fall into the unknown future.
I feel ya… I so pray for your peace as you work on your family problems... Just be dad and you will be fine...
Peace to all here on the LTA Board... all well in the trynhard home front...
[This message edited by trynhard at 11:14 AM, June 18th (Friday)]
Hugs to the tribe.
[This message edited by trynhard at 4:17 PM, June 18th (Friday)]
Allgood: I totally understand the feeling that the kids might be better off without me. I can't tell you how many times over the past year I've gone up to my room and hid under the covers.
But you have to tell yourself your kids are better off with you. You are a great mother and your kids love you. I understand the feeling that you may feel so down that maybe it might be bad for the kids, but that's not true. Your kids need you. My IC keeps reminding me how lucky and blessed I am to have my 4 boys. Also, I always am grateful that my kids are healthy and "normal" (DS 15 just twisted his ankle AGAIN....the JOYS OF BOYS!!! )
My daughter was born with a chromosomal disorder that was not compatible with life. Her death made me realize how precious life is and appreciate my crazy boys.
FNF: I can't begin to thank you for all your reality checks and sharing things that your WH has said. When you said I have power here and am stronger here, you are absolutely right. I was grabbing at straws and illusions again. It seems that if there seems to a chance to "fix" everything, I'm ready to jump at any chance, no matter how unrealistic it is.
When we were going through false R last year and he told me he did divorce OW, I wouldn't go overseas because I felt I couldn't handle it. I knew better then. I can't handle it now either. WH wants me and the boys to go there for vacation this summer, but I am so hesitant about it. I know the kids want to go. They want to see their relatives and cousins there. They have lived there on and off for the past ten years.
I did tell WH I was considering going on with the status quo OW there and me here, but when WH said he might bring them ALL here, I said NO WAY can I tolerate that. I was only thinking of tolerating the other sitch..WH "visiting" here until I got myself on my feet financially and emotionally.
FNF, you are right, WH is not giving up OW, and even if he does, it doesn't mean that he will be faithful in the future.
It just hurts so much that when push came to shove, he seems to have chosen her. I have to remind myself of the advice I was going to give to ALLGOOD:
We can go over what we did to contribute to the marital problems. This can help with R. But still, our WS's chose to have an affair as an answer to the problems. WE DID NOT.
Yes, there was marital problems. If we look back, we will see many instances where we contributed a lot, we weren't perfect, but we are human beings. We make mistakes, so did WS's during the marriage. BUT, they chose a detrimental way to deal with it. We were in the same marriage and did not chose to do that.
The betrayal is so hard to get over and then try to fix the problems. For me, the betrayal continues on and on. At least I'm not thinking about it 24/7. There are many times it comes to mind and I can push it away and concentrate on what I am doing at the moment.
But, like all of us, there are strong triggers that attack us out of the blue that can overwhelm us. We do need the support of everyone we can.
Thank you everyone for everything.
Ats: try to hang in there as much as you can. You guys had a very rough weekend. Try to reread your posts for the past couple of months and you will see that you and your WW have come a long way. This is a setback, but I feel you guys have hope.
Hi Dip! You never mess anything up!! You always give great advice.
dip: dare i ask about the alligators?..
honest: o.k. i am going to say this really really loud so its a really good thing its not in person, because you would need to cover your ears...
HE DID NOT CHOOSE HER, HE CHOSE HIMSELF....AND HE STILL BELIEVES HE WILL HAVE YOU BOTH.....
your ws still believes he will get you back to where he wants you, he also doesn't believe he has given you up at all, or lost you or will lose you......his ego is that big....by the time he realizes he was supposed to make a choice he will have put such an unbelievable spin on how its your fault that things ended up the way they did...
o.k. no more yelling for now anyways...
Thanks!! I really did need that!!!!
I know you want to shake me, and perhaps I need it!!
I know you dont feel ready to "amputate" (thanks Tryn!wonderful analogy ) and noone here would push you. But please think of YOU and whats best for YOU. (the IL's message made me then - it sounds like they are embarassed by his actions and want you to do their dirty work for them. Dont.)
Wow. You are really going through a stinker of a month, arent you?
Time to regroup,Ats. Maybe a form of 180? Where you concentrate on building yourself up only. Right now you are the one most vulnerable in that house and since noone else is looking out for you, you are going to do this on your own.
And there FYI, there have been many times when I thought that I wasnt needed/wanted in this family (as recently as weeks ago)- its a horrible feeling but it passes as you gain your strength again - promise.
Hang in there, Ats. By the way, has your IC suggested any techniques on how to get through tough times?
Fnf, Hi friendie!
Allgood, hope you and H get to create some beautiful moments.
Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.
Dip is alive and well. I have been up to my ass in alligators the past several days
The loss of something you never get back . . .
and fall into the unknown future.
Honest - I completely agree with Miracle - "He did not choose her - he chose himself - and he still believes he will have you both." On a continuum of the NPD chart from mild to extreme, your H, IMHO, seems to be in the extreme category. Getting him to think of anyone but himself and his own needs, seems like a task for a saint. I think I remember you writing in a previous post that he doesn't feel he needs C'ing but supports C'ing for you.
Without C'ing, how will he ever come to see that it is him who needs to be making changes?
LostHeart - good to see you too! back at you!
[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 8:17 AM, June 19th (Saturday)]
Nobody is home; FWW may still be working weight watchers. As I pulled in the driveway two sheriff deputies pulled up and walked up to me, thought I was going to be arrested or served. Ends up they were here for the JD next door.
Thanks for all of the advice, it makes sense. I know where we were in the past, and I thought I knew where I wanted to be. Now I am not so sure, and I do not know how to get there anyway. A little focus on me and let the others figure out where they want to be. FWW sent me an email yesterday. She had IC, I guess he lectured her some when she tried to make excuses and blame me, but also gave her some ideas for the next time things implode.
I liked the picture Trynhard, the background looks like the Content Keys, and area I love. That story about the amputation, he was not able to complete the amputation when he hit a nerve and it hurt too much. Still, separating himself as much as he did from the trapped and infected arm by cutting blood vessels and muscle he prevented serious infection of his body, and saved his life. A little like a limb 180
Thanks again everyone. It is especially good to know that my occasional feelings of not being wanted or valued are not unique to me, and will pass. My emotions were much darker yesterday than they are today. Maybe instead of a 180, just more boating.
i was thinking about you yesterday, being a sahm, and a very strong minded one at that, i would never let pfm have a last word and most times not even a first word when it came to the kids...a big part of it had to do with the way i knew he was raised, and i wanted my kids not to have all of that "stuff" that i knew would go with raising them his way or his family's way...so being the one who was with the kids 24/7 and being very strong willed, it was my way or the highway with the kids....that is not to say that he didn't have input because he did, he just chose to have input in a very destructive way.....anyways i was thinking about you and what you said about the way your wife was raised and how she wanted to raise her kids diff from her's...and i could understand that completely, but that does not mean that youdon't have input or a say...pfm was a negative input,...and there was really nothing i could do about it, i tried but i could not...so if you ats decided you wanted to be a positive input, i believe you could still do that...and you as a dad have the right to set up parental boundaries....you do not have any boundaries apparantly with the way your family treats you, and i think ( and this is just my opinion) that you need to change this.....for your sake and most especially for your kids sakes...you still have a son at 18 who needs some serious lessons in life that he did not recieve from you or your wife...life is not going to give him slack, life is not going to be easy, he has not learned how to be a responsible young man yet, and you could still teach this to him....i am sorry if i am coming down hard on you...i care, and i see it so clearly, kind of like how we all see honest's husband for who he is, and she sees the man she thought she loved...(sorry honest)
honest: i care about you too you know....so i guess i want to shake people up who i care about...wow, i guess thats an aha moment for me..
lh2: you sound wonderful, so self-assured and yet so vulnerable...(((lh2)))
i think we all feel like disappearing from our lives, some of us more then others...and sometimes getting away from all of them even for an overnite boating outing is sometimes all it takes to reconnect....ironic concept...go away to reconnect....
fnf: i think trust is no longer what it used to be, but then again so is appreciation, to be able to appreciate what you work so hard to accomplish and have today would never be what it is without those hardships...and of course i think we would all still appreciate just fine having never had this experience....but the way we look at things, the way we see things has all changed...some of it for better, and some for worse...i am still searching for the life lessons for me in this experience, the lesson that helps me overcome it...
on that note i will sign off for now...
FWW did have a model that showed what would work with the kids. When SD#2 was acting out living with her father, she was shipped down to us to finish high school. FWW and I agreed on what the expectations were, and SD#2’s grades improved her first year. We were consistent, provided logical consequences for actions, and it worked. When restrictions were lifted, her grades fell, but FWW was unwilling to reinstate the restrictions, and so the behavior never improved, grades fell again, etc.
Boating has always been my thing. My folks bought me a rowboat to use on the river in our town when I was young. Later I raced sailboats and taught sailing. Here in Florida it is fishing boats. Soon after dday when divorce was assumed, my parents, realizing what the boat meant to me, showed what wonderful people they are. They said if I had to sell the boat they wanted to buy it to use from time to time. They would pay to store and maintain it where it is now if I would be, willing to run it regularly to keep it in good condition and trailer it a couple of time a year up to where they live a couple hours away.
I did put FWW and older son on notice that I have tried to get the college thing all worked out, but with little cooperation. I told them I would do what is asked of me if I can, but that they are going to have to figure out at this late date how to get all of the pieces in place. I also plan to open a separate bank account for my paychecks to deposit to. I will transfer what is necessary for mortgage, utilities, grocery, etc to the joint account, but I will retain the balance to use as I see fit. I tried this before, but backed off when FWW gave kids money from her “allowance account” and took money from the joint account for her use resulting in bounced checks. This time I will let the payments lapse, and it can all be sorted out in the separation if it comes to that.
We spoke briefly today. She did not make another MC/IC appointment until she knows what I want to do re: our M. I asked what she wanted, and she said that depends on me.
Sure would be nice, and I have told her this in the past, to have her say "I want to do whatever I can to prove I love you and want to be with you."
...i am still searching for the life lessons for me in this experience, the lesson that helps me overcome it...
I've too looked for the piece to make it all clear, or the lesson and silver lining that makes it all better (weight loss?). I think some of us just draw short straws.
Hi lost heart 2, nice to meet you.
Maybe not if they don't have some meaty breasts.
Younger son just picked the last of the peppers and tomatoes, so I am off to the kitchen to help him make salsa.