I know how hard this whole post dday thing has been for me with a spouse who is at least trying to make it better. It often sounds as though the thing your husbands are trying most is your patience.
It amazes me how absolutely hopeless and awful I felt over the weekend compared to today. Intellectually I knew it would be stressful, but was not able to get my brain to work and override the anger and sadness I was feeling. If there is a next time, hopefully I can reflect back on this occurrence to ride it out better. I appreciate all of you who put in the time over the weekend to help talk me down from even more irrational behavior.
FWW and I talked again last night and after a rough start made some progress. During the last weekend, she was trying to control me and everyone else to have things go “smooth”. They didn’t. In retrospect, she wishes she had sent the boyfriend on an errand with DS, and had us all talk about the invisible elephant in the room, starting with her apologizing to her DD’s and sister for putting them in the position of knowing about the A’s and not being able to tell me due to loyalty to her. This will be the plan for the next time the family is together. She said she eventually wants to apologize to my parents too, but is not yet ready to face them.
I told her I want her to acknowledge and try to understand what I am feeling, rather than just telling me how sorry she is. I talked about the frustration I have trying to sort out the conflicting things she said to me in the time leading up to dday, soon after dday, during the TT, and now. She appreciates that, and we did clear some of them up. She wants to spend more time clearing up misperceptions of each other’s intent we both have in the marriage timeline. I also talked about how I feel having to work with OM#1, my shattered trust, and some of the inconsistencies in her additional disclosure at the end of April.
I told her that I understand the paradox of my wanting her to be honest with her feelings and not say what she thinks I want to hear, and then being angry when she says what she feels, but then it is not what I want to hear. I suggested that it is OK for her to feel defensive, or upset, but at times she needs to be able to set that aside and still deal with me, and I need to be able to do the same.
She has been talking a lot with her sister about their childhood. She shared a summary of these discussions with me; their childhood with an alcoholic mother and work-focused father was awful. Trying to work through all of this stuff between us is going to be a tangled coil of affair stuff, ACOA stuff, and typical problems in our marriage.
[This message edited by atsenaotie at 2:34 PM, June 16th (Wednesday)]
allgood: i love what you wanted to hear...now i think you should tell him...don't let your pride get in the way of telling him what you needed, not if you really want him to eventually be the one to meet your needs...plant seeds allgood...
i had a convo with a freind today who was venting about her sich with her now ex...and i asked her about planting seeds...and she said yes her so was the type that needed seeding..as was her ex-h...but she says she is sick of gardening...doesn't want to garden anymore...just wants the damn results.... ...of course i thought of you....
m3: do you think there is any funny business with these things or big time coincidences...
and please stop comparing yourself to the ow...his choice to have an affair really has nothing to do with her or with you...it has everything to do with what is broken inside him...everything to do WITH HIM....not you and not her....
ats: i am glad that you are talking to your wife all the way through...she is a lucky woman, as is dips wife and tryns wife...lots of men don't do talking...lots of walking but no talking...
Despite the fact that this sharing feelings business is new terrain for me, as well as my husband, I nonetheless took your advice and tried to salvage the day.
Miracle, I tried to tell my H what I posted here about what I had hoped he would say, but it sounded like complete insanity, so I just read my response to you instead. I felt like a complete moron doing it -but I figured what do I have to lose? (Sort of a new mantra of mine these days). Anyway -my H said "I agree with that - can you just pretend I said that". He's quite the comedian/deflector.
Anyway, we didn't spend a minute of time together due to our kids' sport schedules & since I told him we weren't celebrating our anniversary, he went to play ball tonight like he usually does. But, he did get me a card that for whatever oddball reason was pretty well suited to our situation & then he wrote some good stuff in it.
I think I need to let go a bit & start trusting him a little - trust in the sense of at least believing what he says to me. Idk - I'm actually scared to do that. I'm afraid if I let this off of my radar, I'm going to get blind-sided again. I know, I know, I will know the signs next time... I gotta start to trust a little, tho I still think a poly should be incorporated into the annual physical...
EDITED because I forgot to comment on Miracle's seed planting comment... Lol. I always think its funny when something in real life reminds me of SI.
[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 8:32 PM, June 16th (Wednesday)]
(((allgood))) I know it is your anni also ... hope it's one all about you and makes you feel special to be you ...
Ats: great news. You and your WW have a long way to go, but you guys are communicating.Although you had a major setback this weekend..and who wouldn't under the circumstances? I have trouble spending a few hours at a BBQ with in-laws post dday, never mind a whole weekend!!
I really agree with your discussion about wanting the truth and then again not really wanting to hear things that hurt, but really need to. It seems paradoxical, but it isn't. My WH has often said he didn't want to tell me some things because of how much it would hurt, that I only wanted to hear..what I wanted to hear KWIM? and it is true. It's hard to listen to hurtful things.
M3: I'm so sorry to hear about the boat. When we are going through our personal hell, it's hard to put up with anything else. Sometimes it just seems "when it rains, it pours" either everything seems to go right, or more often, things go wrong.
This spring, our inground pool (was here when we bought the house) collapsed and needs to be totally redone, my "new" used car is a lemon that needed everything fixed, DS15 lost credit for his Math class....it sometimes seems everything will go wrong.
But size 8??? wow. I'm envious!!!
Miracle: I agree, it is about planting seeds. At first, we can be aggravated that this needs to be done, but unfortunately it does. But this is not always a bad thing. Even with "normal" people who are married, we may need to "plant seeds" of encouragement, to help the other person to know the things that make us happy or angry. Sometimes this can be done by simple communication, but many people may not "get it" still, so the "planting" may be needed. In my WH's case, sometimes I think I needed a drill hole!!!
Thank you for your comments, UK girl and fnf. UKgirl, you are right, I have to stand by my boundaries.
WH and I talked a little today. I reiterated my boundaries and that I was NOT telling him what to do, but what I can or cannot accept. I don't know why I am bothering, but I guess I still feel HE has to hear it and my anger should be directed at the source whether or not he gets it. I was calm and cool and talking very simply. But FINALLY, he did get what I've been trying to make him understand about trust. WH has been saying for a long time that I can trust him with all other aspects of our lives...ie finances. Today, since I was talking very calmly, and not making him feel defensive, I told him, I'm very sorry, but as you have told DS so many times if one betrays a trust it takes a long time to build it up again. I calmly said, "You have betrayed me in the worst way possible. When we were first married, I begged you to NEVER cheat on me the way xWH did, it would KILL me and you promised to NEVER do it. You would leave me first. I beggged you to leave me, don't do this. This is the worst betrayal especially since I begged you NOT to do this to me. So, I'm sorry, I don't trust you and you will have to build that trust up."
WH said, "I understand, and you are right."
Ok, this doesn't really change anything. He is still with OW, BUT at least I feel validated.. at least he seemed to understand (or pretended to, or even told me what I wanted to hear)
I realize that I need to detach. But, possibly the way I am doing it is something I can deal with now. I have to continue dealing with WH in some way or another for the rest of my life because of the kids. Because he is NPD, perhaps just changing our relationship, detachment without anger or a feeling of being enemies is the best way.
I think I'm rambling again. It seems to be going around.
Oh, by the way, we cannot compare ourselves to the OP's. There is a thread in fun and games where members are posting pics of themselves and families. ALL of the BS's are very attractive and good looking people!!! The children are gorgeous!! Thier WS's are stupid idiots!!
and i am glad he at least got a card and wrote in it...so yay mr allgood...
plant seeds, be very direct without attacking and let him step up....if he doesn't get it then, well then you do what you have to do...but i think you still need to give it some time, give ic some time and be consistent in the way you act and react....so far the man does what he is told "now"..i empasized "now" to be a bit sarcastic, but somehow i think you got that...
booger..yay for you hon...i am proud of you...you are doing so so well...
honest: you talk to him the way you see fit, yes you will have to deal with this man forever because of the kids...just as long as you keep moving forward in YOUR life...forward....forward and forward....looking back and getting his validation can be a dangerous thing to do for you, so be careful and keep your heart, head and motivation forward...
oh and allgood: don't put so much pressure on yourself to trust, its not something that can be forced, but if he keeps going the way he is he will earn it...and when its earned you will still have reservations...and thats o.k., as long as you don't let those fears dictate to you to him....
Ats, after the weekend you endured, this is a very positive and hopeful post showing a determination to communicate and work through things together. You were both reacting to the stresses of the weekend and it’s important to talk about how you both deal with these kind of situations. Social and family ones can be the worst and the longer they are and the more people around the worse it gets. You will learn coping mechanisms. Find some for you that work. Take some time out – just 5mins can be enough to centre yourself.
Allgood – like the update. Well done you!
(((((Booger))))). You are amazing. Truly, you are. I’ll nip down to NB when I get a chance later today.
Honest – good, good and well, good! Detachment is something you have been working towards for a while and it sounds like you are doing so. Staying calm and repeating things to WH like a mantra will reinforce things in your own mind. See your boundaries and stay on your side.
Had a quick scan of the pics in F&G – lovely folk! Posted one of me.
Hugs to the tribe.
Booger: I'm glad you were able to be happy on your anniversary and are doing well overall.
Ok, this doesn't really change anything. He is still with OW, BUT at least I feel validated
I think this is very important! You handled everything great! Good for you!
Everyone: Thank you for continuing to "listen" and support.
ETA - I forgot to block this so I hope it wasn't confusing.
[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 8:43 AM, June 17th (Thursday)]
UKgirl: yes, I need a mantra to keep repeating to myself. I have been avoiding saying things to WH because he defends and attacks then I end up feeling worse. But there are some things I feel need to be said. I discovered yesterday that I stuck to one particular topic, did not go on and on, I didn't expect a response or a discussion. I didn't sound accusatory either, just stating calmly how I felt about what he did. I don't know if this is really going to help me detach, and as Miracle says, it's potentially dangerous.
FNF: Thank you so very much for your thoughful response. NO, you are not hurting my feelings, I DO NEED A REALITY CHECK. That's really what the 2x4's are!!
You posed a lot of good questions that are really very very helpful. What are my rights? Well, WH's family seem to believe that I am relinquishing my "rights" via default by not being there. In other words, OW is benefitting from all his time, money, etc. If I was there, WH would have to share all that with me. They also tell me WH is not happy and is much better when I am there with him. I guess I'm his conscious, or I guide him to act better, who knows?
What is my benefit to "fight" for WH? To have him to myself??? I will still have to share with OC's. There is always the finances, too and a lifestyle. But, you are right, I will not be moving forward.
WH should be fighting for me and not the other way around.
What am I fighting for? WOW, thank FNF!!! Your questions are really helping me ask these things to myself.
You are helping me to face something that I don't want to really admit. I'm fighting for my old life back, and although LOGICALLY I have known for a year that that's impossible, emotioanally I haven't really accepted that. Emotionally, I may still be stagnated deep down wishing/bargaining "if" I only do this, then I will get what I want.
"Fighting for WH" will feed his NPD and really validate for him that he is worth fighting for. (like he really needs validation in his own mind).
Someone here (I'm sorry, I don't remember who) said that we are so ready to "fix" things and take care of things. Possibly, that's my trouble with all this. EMOTIONALLY, I feel, I want so terribly to "fix" it all, then maybe it'll go away and I'll stop hurting.
I have to keep the "Mantra" up as UKgirl says. I have to keep telling myself that this CANNOT be fixed. The old marriage is OVER. Building a new relationship is another matter and I cannot do it alone, not can I do it when WH is still with OW.
I was even starting to believe his lies...." We don't get along (him and OW). I'm just staying with her because of the kids. She'll divorce me if I don't make love to her (that's a good one!!!! ) She'll have custody of the kids and will marry someone else. I'm with her so she doesn't marry someone else and the kids will be raised by a stranger man."
What utter nonsense. It insults my intelligence. I didn't respond to all this crap. He is charming like a snake with some of the things he says to me.
I'm rambling again. IRL, my adult sons are so busy with their own lives, I don't see or hear from them much. RL friends seems to be tired of hearing all this crap and don't understand why I'm still hanging on. I am stuck. I am in limbo and trying to move on.
hugs to everyone. I'm sorry I don't have too much to offer others for these past few days. Just trying to keep moving.
In other words, OW is benefitting from all his time, money, etc. If I was there, WH would have to share all that with me. They also tell me WH is not happy and is much better when I am there with him. I guess I'm his conscious, or I guide him to act better, who knows?
What is my benefit to "fight" for WH? To have him to myself???
[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 10:18 AM, June 17th (Thursday)]
allgood: how did the rest of the evening go, and how did you do in court?..
The rest of the evening was spent separately. I had already told him we weren't going to celebrate so he didn't make arrangements for a replacement for him on his team so each one of us covered a different sport with our kids & then he went to play ball.
He did come home earlier than usual tho (just before midnight) - he said he came home so at least he could spend a little time with me before "Meaningless Wednesday" a/k/a our anniversary was over. (This is because I told him our anniversary was a meaningless event to me now).
So, that was thoughtful - quite frankly tho, I was too tired to do anything but appreciate the sentiment... but we are going away this weekend - just the 2 of us, so I'm overall hopeful we will have a good time.
She did not want me along for fear that if SIL said something about BIL or whatever and I triggered, I might expose FWW and BIL involvement. So becasue of what she did with her BIL, I get excluded. I was angry last night, and it continues this morning.
She may be trying, but it is feeling like too little, too late.
me thinks you are giving her too much power here...
talking and communicating is a 2 way street, and in your marriage since she ran it off the road, she needs to work really hard getting it back on track, and that is not going to happen if she reacts out of fear and you allow it....
A fight with older son today when he again neglected to help around the house as he was supposed to, and told me I better get him some money for gas. It went downhill from there and I shoved him. He told me how it is all about me and nothing he ever does is good enough. Almost word for word what FWW said after dday and SD#1 said at Xmas. There seems to be a consistent theme that I am the problem in this family. He says he is gone for the night, but continues to text me what an awful and hurtful person I am. FWW said nothing, and left with younger son to the grocery (?)
How did my life end up here?