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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affair... Part 18
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 6:05 AM, June 14th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ats: my DDay is only 6 weeks earlier than yours. We are in similar spots emotionally this week. In fact, I got out of bed at 2am last night & was on SI - I read everything here but felt I was not in a good place to be giving sound advice - so I took a pass.
I'm not much better this morning so take the following for what it is worth:
First, to be perfectly honest, I do not think I could ever accept that reconciliation is possible with someone like your wife's history unless you truly believe that your marriage was such that it was almost understandable.
Having said that, I also know that more often than not you have seemed happy with your reconciliation. So, I wonder what's going on. I think a trip to mc is in order.
I agree that you should not make any big decisions while in this state. I do not see any harm, however, in seeing a lawyer for advice - you need to have all of the pertinent facts before making a decision.

I know you have sought advice or comfort from someone similarly situated in terms of a timeline - so I just wanted to let you know that although we've been reconciling since late August, it really didn't appear that my h was doing ver much to help heal me or figure out his problems. His approach was pretty much just to be nicer & more attentive to me & be tolerant of my huge waves of emotion. Things really only got better in the last 2 months. I recently asked him why & he told me that it's because I told him if things didn't change I was done. (Now, I don't know that I really believe that as I told him this a few times prior to that, but the point is I did tell him that I was unhappy & wasn't planning on spending the rest of my life like that.)
There wasn't any huge turnaround in terms of his behavior but he goes to ic (not that I believe he opens up there, but anyway)& has tried to be supportive in his own way. (In part, what has helped me to move forward a little is acknowledging the progress he's made even if it still ridiculously inadequate).
I think you and your wife have had a similar progression until recently.
We both have triggery things going on (my anniversary is this week)and I too spent the entire weekend seriously questioning why I would want to continue to reconcile with someone I will never fully trust & someone who will not be capable of a mature emotional relationship.
So to recap: you are not alone. Yes, it takes too much time. Do not make any decision when you are this upset, but get all the info you need from a lawyer. Sit down & decide what will make you the happiest - and give yourself the option of taking a wait & see attitude as one of your options.
Keep posting - I'm worried about you & want to help.
Peace.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 7:49 AM, June 14th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ATS -- I read your post from Saturday night -- yes, you can do better. I'm not really sure where that leaves you. I think we can all do better.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 7:54 AM, June 14th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As much as I love my husband, the first thought that pops into my head when I look at him is "this is the man who broke my heart".

Allgood --
I think this a lot too. I think I'm in that Plain of Lethal Flatness I see people talk about.

If you *really* want to see how many of his old ways your WH will revert to -- go on and tell him you forgive him. My WH is back to being disrespectful, etc. I did like those few months where he was actually a nice husband, but I guess they were a fantasy.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 8:15 AM, June 14th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

m3:

If you *really* want to see how many of his old ways your WH will revert to -- go on and tell him you forgive him. My WH is back to being disrespectful, etc. I did like those few months where he was actually a nice husband, but I guess they were a fantasy

this makes me sad.....maybe you should tell him that you had forgiven the new husband that you saw, the new husband you thought he had become, that was the man who earned your forgiveness, this old husband doesn't have forgiveness, this old husband is not acceptable.....


((((m3))))

((((allgood)))))

((((ats))))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 8:27 AM, June 14th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allright, thanks for the beating y'all gave me about beating on myself.

I'm venting and venting here, but I haven't said a work to WH. In fact, I haven't said a word to WH about his stupid A since the day we went to see his IC in late January. Well, there was one day that he kept following me around the house when I needed some alone time and he finally caught me bawling in the shower. I couldn't get him to GO AWAY. He said some crap about me being the love of his life and that he's hurt when I'm hurt, blah blah so I hugged him while I was crying and I told him my heart is just so, so broken that I don't think it will ever heal.

Man, I feel like a chump for that. I shuld have just thrown a shampoo bottle at him and told him to get the F out.

He keep trying to get me to talk. He asks me what I'm thinking -- that man hasn't give a rats ass what I think about anything in YEARS. But I never answer him. What am I supposed to say? "Well, I was just thinking that if I don't get around to painting this room a different color soon I'm going to scream because every time I walk in here I think about how your shadow-wife-single-white-female-stalker-bitch painted her house the same damn color last summer and it just totally creeps me out?"

Ok -- so, yes, I'm blaming and blaming and blaming. All of this, it's all in my head. Over and over and over. It's like I'm writing a symphony here. I can't talk to him because I have no idea what I want to say to him. I've got to work it all through. What's good about our relationship? What's bad? Do I even want to be in this relationship? If no, what could be changed to make that yes? CAN anything be changed to make that yes? What factors about him led to him resuming this A a year after we married? In what ways do I need to be a better partner? Are those things I'm able or even willing to do? Etc. Etc. I've got to work it all through. THEN I will know what to say. I can't just go out there spouting off a whole bunch of verbal diarrhea. Or I don't want to. I mean, really, what if the answer is: "this relationsip just doesn't work for me anymore."

Oh, by the way, someone sank our "old" smaller (24') boat yesterday. Very interesting. Maybe we're paranoid, but neither I nor my father think it's coincidental that we were not there. It was deliberately sunk. The marina called the police to investigate.

At least there is no lack of drama in my soap-opera life.

And I just love how WH would complian that I'm "addicted to drama" if he was annoyed by something (something like, no, we can't go to Home Depot because the b2 week old baby has a 101 degree fever and his doctor wants me to take him to the hospital. Of course, he went to Home Depot anyway. Whatever.)

There is more than one kind of poverty -- just a thought. I've been poor, standing in line at the soup kitchen poor, and I'm telling you, it's better to be poor and loved. It just is. The Pharaoh was watching Iron Man and someone told Tony Stark he has everything and nothing. The Pharaoh said "but he can buy anything he wants." And I said "Stuff is just stuff, P." And he said "But he can get a family too." And I said "It doesn't just work that way. A family isn't always so easy to find."

I'm glad the concept of beign without a family confounds The Pharaoh. At least WH and I are doing a good job of loving him.

Ok, real work, real chores, then back to writing the symphony...


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 8:41 AM, June 14th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Miracle,

I've got no game today. Weekends are hard. Too much togetherness.

Here's a nice disrespect example: Yesterday, we were out to eat and Sunshine was fussing with his cup and straw. It was a Shirley Temple, so there were *supposed* to be cherries inside, so I opened the cup to get Sunshine a cherry to help calm him down, and of course, Sunshine fusses more because I'm holding his cup and the there's no cherry -- WH jumps all over me for "making it worse" and then proceeds to drink 4 drinks and tell me that I need to lighten up and I take everything too seriously.

Then, he's annoyed because it takes me too long to find the Dramamine at Target.

Then, he sleeps for 2+ hours while I try to take care of 4 kids, two being babies, and pack up our stuff and clean up the boat so we can go home.

Or, on Saturday he's chewing me out because I didn't tie the boat up fast enough. Meanwhile, he still hadn't shown me how he wants it done, which I asked 3 weeks ago and I can't even reach the lines without a boathook, which I didn't have. Ugh. At least that time he "apologized" but it was a non-pology "I'm sorry I got snippy, BUT ..."

By Monday I always feel like I've been shrunken from all the criticism and eye rolling and heavy sighing and not magically knowing his plans.

And, yes, much like pfm you can't get an actual answer out of him. With a bit of hyperbole, it might as well be:
me: what time do you want to leave today?
him: did you know there are volcanoes in Iceland?

AAAGH!!!


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 8:47 AM, June 14th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've just gotten back from vacation and it'll take me a while before I'm caught up with everyone's posts but there seems to be a general theme in so many posts right now that I wanted to comment on this. Please bear with me because I'm not sure I can be really clear as I type.

So many of us here are truly interested in R yet we are married to men and women who are "disadvantaged." We are married to people with NPD, bipolar, Asberger's Syndrome, maybe some are ADHD and in need of constant stimulation for satisfaction and then there are those suffering from emotional immaturity - so on a continuum, we run the gamut from mild dysfunctional personality disorders to truly serious ones. I also think everyone of us is married to a spouse with serious FOO issues. On the other hand we, the BS's, are relatively normal folk trying to get our dysfunctional FWS's to behave from a perspective that is as foreign to them as their disorders and behaviors are to us. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not defending them per se, but I do think we have to always be aware of what it is that is keeping these FWS's from meeting our needs.
A little aside, my middle child was diagnosed with ADHD in her teens. She couldn't sit still, had trouble concentrating, frequently engaged in high risk behaviors, well, you get the idea. It was beyond frustrating and very scary. If any of you have a child with ADHD you know what I'm talking about. It takes a great deal of C'ing and hard work and sometimes medication to help these children (and adults) who suffer with this. It is next to impossible if the person with any of these personality disorders do not have the will and the maturity to make the changes they need to lead a normal life. And it truly takes the "patience of Job" to live with someone suffering with any of these.
This is what we are trying to do - we are trying to get these S's to R while fighting an uphill battle with their disorders and if these S's refuse to accept that they are "afflicted" then our job is next to impossible. The question then is do we have the determination and patience to work with them in order to R?
I hope it's ok to single out Dip and Ats, but both have told us that their wives suffer with more serious forms of disorders and I have been so impressed by their commitment to their W's and M. Their work is so much harder and not everyone has the amount of love and devotion needed to fight the battles of some of these complicated disorders.
I remember once talking to a friend whose DD also had ADHD and was going through a really bad period. I remember thinking that it was like demanding a child with cerebral palsy to get up and run a race like every other child. In other words, it was unfair for me and my friend to expect our children to be like other children, to sit still, to pay attention, to perform well in school (btw, many of these children have very high IQ's).
So in my long-winded way, I guess what I'm trying to say is that we have to keep this in mind when we are dealing with "disabled" spouses. I know this is a tough job especially since we have been crushed by their betrayals, but if we really hope to R then we need to remind ourselves every now and then that they are operating from a disadvantage and no matter how unfair it may seem, we need to give them the support and encouragement to work toward getting healthy.
I guess I also want to say that everyone here would understand if the battle was more than someone wanted to stay and fight.
All I ever wanted was a normal, loving relationship. I didn't need constant excitement, stimulation, adoration, etc. I understood that there would be compromises, and sacrifices and that I would often have to put aside my needs for those of my family. All of this seemed perfectly normal to me and I was content knowing that I was giving my children a solid, loving foundation. It literally felt like an internal explosion to discover that all of my dreams and sacrifices for my children's well being were not only one-sided but seriously compromised by my H's 8 year A. Everyone of us has suffered and the effects of his behavior are very much a part of our lives now. It can't be undone. My only hope is that by keeping the communication open, by staying strong and by giving my H the opportunity to make the changes he needs to, this awful thing that happened to us will have a positive outcome. There are no guarantees.
As everyone of us has said so often, we are so lucky to have found this place because I truly believe without each other's support we would be fighting an impossible, lonely battle. I thank God for SI and all of you here in our LTA forum.

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 8:52 AM, June 14th (Monday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 9:50 AM, June 14th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

M3 - I hear ya!
WARNING: VENT:

We were out all day yesterday - got back at 8. Everything was fine. At 9 he says he's going to the neighbor's house - do I want to come with him (and leave all 4 sleeping kids alone, I suppose). I told him I was too tired from the party we had just gotten home from & there was laundry to do, etc. (didn't even touch the reason why he thought it would be ok for us to leave our kids home & have drinks next door....). But I tell him to go and he says "Well, doesn't this sound like a nice couple thing to do?" Sure, we can have a lot of "couple" time when CPS takes all of our kids away from us - but I didn't say that - told him I was tired, had a lot to do, etc.
He comes home at 1am & has no interest in sex at all even tho he asked me before he left if I would still be up to it later & I said yes. That really pissed me off.
Then, as is the case every day of my life, I get up with the baby, I single handedly hold the baby while getting 3 other kids ready for school.
I just reached a point where enough is enough - I'm not contributing to any false R - I'm not going to pretend that all I need from him is to stop F-ing someone else & spend more time with me & that I'm ok with just accepting everything I thought was wrong with the relationship.
So, I tell him that I was offended that he stayed out so late/drank so much that he couldn't follow through on our plans & that I do not understand why I'm always in charge of the morning routine.
We almost never have the same days off, today was the only day we did this week & he spent it sleeping in. And his explanation is that it's his day off. Hmmm - what a coincidence - it's my day off too! And, as a matter of fact, I haven't slept past 6:30am in over 10 years!
I admit - I did throw a comment out there to the effect that he doesn't need a lot of sleep that's why he got up earlier than he needed to for 1 1/2 years to he could meet ow.
Shortly after that he told me to Shut Up & left the room.
We didn't talk for an hour - then I finally tried to discuss things with him.
His view is very simple, it appears, I am not to complain. Complaining = fighting in his head (tho I never raised my voice) and this is to be avoided. So - I guess saying shut up & walking away is the way to go?
I'm waiting for him to come back from ic but I just think he is an immature, selfish a-hole. I'm willing to do the work - but I need someone to work with me!
Arggghh!!!!!

[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 9:53 AM, June 14th (Monday)]


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 10:52 AM, June 14th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hear you allgoodnamesgone. How hard should it be for him to value time with you over drinks with the neighbors? I understand the complaining = fighting. I often felt that way and was too sensitive to criticism, but that is an issue I had to address to improve my relationships. At some point the spouse needs to step up and do the hard self work.

forgivenoforget, I agree with many of the things you wrote. I am struggling I guess with how big a project I want to take on, especially after that project has hurt me beyond what I ever would have believed possible.

All I ever wanted was a normal, loving relationship. I didn't need constant excitement, stimulation, adoration, etc. I understood that there would be compromises, and sacrifices and that I would often have to put aside my needs for those of my family. All of this seemed perfectly normal to me and I was content knowing that I was giving my children a solid, loving foundation.

iwantamiracle, I appreciate all of your support through the weekend. FWW came home last night from SIL. Texted me she (FWW) was sick and would stay out of my way. It is quiet today. I have the day off, everyone is gone, at work, or at school.

I got a text this morning from FWW:

We need to talk and get back on track. SIL is here 3 more nights then it will be back to time for us. Have done bad job being sensitive to your needs and trying to entertain family.

So at least I know where we are as a priority in her life. So assuming nothing else comes up we will have time Thursday evening, errr no, FWW works weight watchers Thursday evening, so Friday. I just have to wait till Friday. And here I thought there was a problem between us.

--Ats

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 10:53 AM, June 14th (Monday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3959 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 11:42 AM, June 14th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

honest. I am glad that what I said about your progress helped. All of this is so devestating and the progress is so slow, that we do feel like we are stuck in the mud. Thanks for the joke. I think the term for doing that to a dog/cat should be, broke him. Fixing to me implies repairing a problem.

ats. Sorry your weekend went that way. Everyone has given you good advice so I will not add to that.

You asked if I consider myself R'd, how long it took, and am I happy with my relationship now? I have said here before that my situation should not really be used as a measuring stick. My D-day was practically in the stone-age. Information about how to deal with all of this was pretty scarce. Almost all of the easiest to find info dealt with a BW dealing with a cheating H. Since there was no internet, finding info and talking to others anonymously was not possible. It is so easy to talk about things here isn't it? For several reasons, this is not the type of stuff that I could ever talk about with my coworkers and friends. I did get to have a few talks with my W's best girlfriend. My W confessed the A to her and this friend coached my W to confess to me. This friend was pretty smart about things like this and was a big help to both of us. We had to deal with my W having a breakdown and her suicide threats. She had some IC, and this helped her some. I ended up flying solo after all that. I knew about grief and death so I handled this in that way. Much of dealing with A's and death are the same. There really is no rebuilding or R in death though. We did manage to R. I guess this will always be a work in progress. I know that most marriages are, A or no A. Nobody had to tell me about NC. I am pretty positive that all of this behavior was over well before D-day. There was a brief time that she and I were still on the road with our jobs so she had the chance to do what ever she wanted. Over the years we had good times and bad. More good than bad. The A scar was almost always there. The bad feelings do fade. Sometime ago I had some triggers that set me back. I'm sure I got hit with a little dose of PTSD. I found SI and started reading/posting here. A big help to me. I have learned that I did handle some things the right way. On the flip side, many things were not done properly, or not done at all. This is not a one size fits all world, and many of the proper methods do not work for all people anyway. I am pretty happy with my relationship. Like most, there are the highs and lows. It would be easier without that A scar to look at. Last fall my W did a weird thing and commited "financial infidelity" with some of our money. Made a loan (gave away money) to a relative, and did not tell me for a month. That action hit me pretty hard. Much harder than I would have imagined. The feeling of betrayal is just like the A. I am getting past this but it gets in the way too. I have to go now. I rambled way to much. You will be scared to ask me anymore questions.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 1:04 PM, June 14th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for your perspective old dip, I cannot imagine going through this crap in the "pre-internet" days.

FWW came home at lunch and wanted to talk, I withdrew and told her I did not want to reconnect. As many of you have said, she does not want to judge a life over one weekend. But the thing is, I am not. It is just that this weekend seemed to bring a whole life into focus.

If we talk, I will get sucked back in. I am feeling OK today, great compared to the last few days. A little numb, OK. I do not want to give this up.

And I am tired of her concern and being sorry after she has hurt me. God Damn it. She worried about SD#1's feelings all weekend. Made excuses and covered for her, offered her Xanax, gave her time and attention. Now, she wants to be sure SIL has a good vacation. Me, I am told to suck it up until after the weekend.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3959 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 1:25 PM, June 14th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ats -- Maybe you should do a hard 180? Not to get any reaction out of FWW, but just for yourself. You sound like you just need a break! You don't really have childcare responsibilities, you can can come and go as you please.

As for weekends being hard -- I don't think it's the togetherness with WH that is the problem, I think it's the stress of the kids. There are so many and they are so little and so needy and the truth is we can both give 100% and still fall short, and so that can cause quite a bit of frustration.

I'm negotiating with my nanny a weekend away with WH. We need some "just us" time again. Or, at least I do.

I triggered kind of bad over the weekend too. We've got a close group going with some of the other parents from The Pharaoh's class. It's great -- very much a friends of the marriage situation; great Cathoic families that talk about things like taking care of your spouses soul in casual conversation (and yet, still so fun. Do shot, talk about importance of taking care of spouses soul, cheer for world cup team, etc.) A very cool group. Anyway, I was at the pool with the ladies and the men were hanging on the boat (AND watching Baby Paddy -- great job guys!) and the ladies were talking about one other woman in our group (not there that day) who just got divorced. I hadn't heard the story about why they divorced -- but her H is a WH and she did all the PI legwork including getting photos, etc. herself and there they were, my friends all talking about her WH cheating on her for 10 years, and how horrible and how did she not beat him up and they'd never put up with it. Man, it was SO hard to listen to. And, of course, I was expected to chime in. And Tryn is so, so right. Part of forgiving is making a vow to yourself to never tell anyone what your WS did (or at least not anyone new at that point.) So, I did chime in, with some hard truths for me to face. And the one that sticks out most was this: I said "I think there is a certain wisdom inherent in a person having an A. Clearly, they realize something is missing in their relationship or themselves or both, and they're trying to meet that need or put their finger on what it is. They've chosen a stupid, destructive, terrible way to do it, but people don't always choose the best way to go about something. The one thing I know is this: happy people do not have affairs. They just don't. They may be tempted, they may even have a stupid, careless or drunken one-night stand, but they don't have 10 year affairs."

Interestingly enough, my friend and her XWH have been D about a year and he is begging her to take him back (and simultaneously dating 3 other women, so you can imagine how "yeah, whatever" my friend is...)

Anyway, that made every little thing more negative for me, and I probably *did* need to lighten up. Sigh.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 2:23 PM, June 14th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wow, allgood, m3 and ats...i wish i could wrap my arms around each and everyone of you...so much pain...

allgood: i think you need to be honest with him...when he asked you to go next door, you should have been very factually honest...."no, next door is not an option unless you have a babysitter that you could call....we do have 4 kids that are not old enough to leave alone....if you want to go i am o.k. with it as long as you come home by _______p.m....."or "i am not o.k. with you going there without me"....and then let him choose from those 2 honest options...so next time, be honest about what you really want from him....no sarcasm, no yelling...just tell him straight....

he is not capable of reading between the lines, if he was you wouldn't feel the way you do so often....so expecting him to be able to do this...not gonna happen...and yes i understand that he should know that there are 4 kids who cannot be left alone...it really is a moment...but right now that is who he is...


m3: wow, what a conversation and that poor wife...10 year affair...i hope she has some peace....it is clear that her ws does not.....and good for you to hold your own and keep it together when i am sure your insides were churning....and i get the impression that your insides are churning so much if you were measured...i would think there would be some mini tornados within you....forgive me i do not remember are you both in ic, i think i remember youhave ic, i cannot remember about your ws...and are you both in mc...i also think the 2 of you would probably do well if you went to retrovaille....especially with your backgrounds....i know you are planning some time away with your ws to go away with freinds...i think you might want to do something like this too or instead....


ats....i understand where you are coming from, the text she sent you is after the fact as opposed to before or during....i think though that she is wrapped up in doing it all and does not have the capacity to realize that you and she should be the priority at all times, no matter what company there is, no matter what event there is.....she needs to rewire some of what she's always done...and she is acknowledging it by the text and this is good...you say you don't want to talk to her right now because you don't want to get sucked in...just how does this happen...and i think it happens because you are very much in love with your wife....is it enough?..only you can answer that one....but while she is trying you need to try as well or i believe that you will have regrets......if she weren't trying at all i'd say to line up your ducks and hire an attorney...but she is...


fnf: i think another thing in common all of our spouses have is the ability to cope...turning to another to cope with issues is no-brainer wrong move...yet they all have....instead of coping with their lives they all escaped using op's to dull whatever it is they couldn't avoid...thus finding another way to avoid....and using whatever is or was wrong in their lives to justify their behavior...creating a vicous circle......not sure if i am making sense....another one of those times i see it in my head, not sure if i am verbalizing well....

((((tribe))))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 2:42 PM, June 14th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Atsenaotie… At 8 months post dday, I was in a tremendous, incredible, huge amount of resentment, pain and hurt. I see the same thing happening to you today.

ats, you and your W don’t have very good conflict resolution skills. Then, you throw on top of that, 8 month of post d-day resentment, it gets worse. It’s hard as hell to know how to communicate after what we’ve been through.

Ats.. you are in a misery part of you M. Your next stage can be the awakening, if you and your W choose it… For me, this time last year, I was the biggest emotional mess anyone could experience. I didn’t have any conflict resolution skills… I couldn’t talk to my W.. I couldn’t tell her what I needed to make me feel better… her defensive would kick in… we threaten to leave each other… Ats.. you have fallen into the same hole I was in…

So, how the hell are you going to get out?

It’s ok for you to quit right now. I have friends after infidelity D and they seem happy. But I also see them in new relationships where they starting the cycle again…

If you make the choice to leave your W, you too will go through the same stuff again.. but it will be years later… I say if you have no conflict resolution skills, you are going to be here again and again…. If your W makes the choice to leave you, you will go through this cycle without your choice.
(Today, almost half of all marriages end in divorce. Those people who choose to marry again in the United States, 70% will file for divorce again.)

Even if you choose to stay and try and R, how the heck is your W going to know how to get to the awakening? This ain’t shit they teach her on the soaps, Sex in the City.. or whatever. Is she going to read a book and live by it? I can compare this to losing weight.. you can read every book written, but you still need something to motivate, make part of your life… something like weight watchers.

I know leaving the M in most cases is easier then staying speaking of easing the hurt… Someone will have a hard time arguing that with me… But for me, I did not give up on my W, we attended Retrouvaille… I am glad I decided to stay. I learned how to communicate safely to my W.. I learned what an awaking M means… I am experiencing the awakening right now… If feels good. True, I hurt sometimes and think about this stuff everyday, but it’s mostly out of curiosity, interest, or who knows…

Retrouvaille of Tampa Bay starts 7/16… Even if you both decide to leave each other, you won’t regret going…

Peace…

PS... I glad I stopped in this weekend to visit... that's all I have in me right now... I'll see ya next week...

[This message edited by trynhard at 2:54 PM, June 14th (Monday)]


Posts: 2634 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 3:06 PM, June 14th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats. Life in the stone age was tough. It is hard to imagine being without all this neat stuff. I would really hate to go back to my childhood days that did not have home A C, only had black & white TV, no remote, only two channels available and the walking ten miles to school, uphill......both ways. O.K. The part about walking to school is a little exagerated. I only walked one mile and that was kind of flat.

miracle. Prematurepostulation is getting to be a problem for you. I know that you may not like doing that, but think about us. This leaves us short changed and feeling like things are incomplete. For now you have been able to bounch right back and post again. This does help us over look the problem.
Here is the new word for you and honest concerning the other problem. Simultanousforumposting-telepathic disorder.

Allgood. My last anniversary, my W did not even get me a card. She said she was sorry, but did not explain. She knew it was our anniversary too. We do not get each other big gifts for things like this. I am hard to buy for. I did get her a card and several little presents. I wonder if she will get me a card this year?

Your H seems kind of clueless about how much work is involved in being a good parent. I have seen many mothers who were married but almost like single moms. This reminds me of a old saying. "A man can work from sun to sun, but a woman's work is NEVER done." Probably written by a woman, but that is just my guess.

m3. The above paragraph applies to you too. In fact, I'm pretty sure it is that way for many mothers. I have seen the reverse though.

As far as getting critisim while helping someone. This always pisses me off. You should get proper instruction, then he would not have to worry, bitch and moan.

forgive. It is good to see you back. I hope you had a nice vacation.

It was fine to single me out. Those were good thoughts you wrote. I am sure that along with the boarderline disorder my W has ADHD. Just last week she asked me totally out of the blue if I thought she had ADHD. Of couse I thought this might be one of those trick catch-22 questions. Agree and she takes that to mean I think she is crazy, disagree and she would say if I have not noticed, I must not care about her. So I asked her why she thought she had ADHD. She said because she had many of the signs and why did the IC she saw a few times many years ago not disgnose her with it. I told her it would take more than a few sessions with a C to make a diagnosis for ANY condition. I offered to help her find a good C. She got a little dark and said that she would have no time for C. I let it drop. It is a opening to maybe get her to C. A very small opening and I still do not see her going. This weekend we watched a show about how tattoos and body art were now so mainstream now and not just for drunken sailors and freaks. She made the comment that she is glad tats were not so popular back when she was crazy, as she would probably have one or two of those. I told her I was glad she did not have any tats. I resisted the desire to ask her if she would have put all her boyfriend's names in a tat or just mine. Probably a good choice to not ask that question.

What forgive is saying about these emotional "disabilities" is true. I am often confounded by the way my W views things. It seems so far from normal. Of course she does not have the ability to understand why I think as I do either. With her disorder, they often think that everyone around them is out to get them. When I try to point out this is simply not true I get the you just do not know how people are answer. When someone does in fact turn out to be in the out to get her category, (no matter how minor the offense) she sees that she was right about these things all along. For many years I tried to help her see things in a more normal way. I have learned that this is impossible. Like forgive said, I was expecting a person with cerebal palsay to get up and run like everyone else. Forgive has really written some good thoughts about these things. All of us are dealing with a S who has some sort of mental problem. Some problems are worse than others.

tryn. Good to see you. The art was great. I liked the way you incorporated the oil disaster in it. Since you keep coming back, should I assume that you miss the people here? It might be hard to change where you live, but it is harder to leave the people you like behind.

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
atsenaotie
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Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 5:21 PM, June 14th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

M334455,
Saturday he's chewing me out because I didn't tie the boat up fast enough. Meanwhile, he still hadn't shown me how he wants it done, which I asked 3 weeks ago and I can't even reach the lines without a boathook, which I didn't have.

I and my father before me have always viewed crew on a recreational boat being rushed and chewed out as an indication of the boat handling skill of the skipper. Good landings and dockings are calm and relaxed, even under conditions of current and breeze. I am impressed by your post though, FWW still asks about the “ropes” not lines on the boat and insist on some weird lassoing of the cleat technique (that works about half the time) instead of using the nice boathook on board. arrrgh

…not magically knowing his plans

I know this one too, she can say the vaguest offhand remark, and two weeks later I discover this was informing me of some great activity or thing I am responsible for or that she is going to do. I am sorry you feel so bullied and criticized by the person who most should be helping to build you up.

The discussion of the disabled spouses, while I am sure would be insulting to FWW, resonated with me and provided additional insight. Thank you forgivenotforget for starting the thought off, and for old dipstick and others who followed up on this theme.

Old dipstick,

Of couse I thought this might be one of those trick catch-22 questions. Agree and she takes that to mean I think she is crazy, disagree and she would say if I have not noticed, I must not care about her. So I asked her why she thought she had ADHD.

Excellent and well phrased. I am working hard this summer on my communication (not that it showed this last weekend ) not just with FWW, but at work. I really think that handling difficult discussions is just not a key for me in relationships, but professionally too.

iwantamiracle, the kind of sad thing is we have been seeing a C either as MC or IC almost weekly since dday. Our last session was “Friday before last, and we left it up in the air about the next meeting (we are doing so well ) I am deciding whether to schedule another session, or wait to give FWW a chance to step up to the plate and shoulder some of the responsibility.

Thank you trynhard, I have followed your advice in the past and profited from it, and so I weigh what you recommend heavily. I am sorry that I amongst others have been doing so poorly that you had to come back out of retirement to help.

FWW is out to dinner and a movie with her SIL tonight. It must be the compartmentalization they talk about, how can FWW spend time with her sister knowing what what she did with her husband? I texted her to let her know I agree we do need to talk at some point, I just do not know when or where to start. I still think I am going to hate myself if I reconnect with her. As has been discussed, I feel as though what I have told and will tell her I need from her is the equivalent of asking my son to bear me a child.

It still hurts. There was a time that at least my father was a source of strength and reassurance. He and my mother tried to be supportive yesterday, but they are old and this is so far removed from their experience. They do not understand why I am still here. My best friend tells me he does not know anyone else who would go through what I have, not necessarily ringing endorsement. So it is left to me to create a safe environment for FWW to hopefully continue working on herself. Nobody else in her life ever did or will do this for her, and my reward, as in the past, for being so understanding and supportive, is to be second in importance to her family, her job, our kids, … Someday, one day, I want someone who will take care of me. Maybe in a nursing home someday.

FWW still occassionally ridicules SI (my little group). She does not think that all the negativity is good for me. Never-the-less, this is the second time that input from others at SI has given me addiitonal insights and inspiration which have kept me from walking away from her. She owes SI her relationship with me.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3959 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
booger bear
♀ Member
Member # 26584
Helpless  Posted: 10:52 PM, June 14th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ok I really want to post to you all and give you my advice and wit ... but this week is super hard ... on Wednesday of this week stbx and I would have been M for 9yrs ... and I am triggering over everything ...

now it is nothing like it was in the early days ... it has been so long since I have been sad or anything over this whole A and D mess ...

also the D should be final anyday now ... soon as the judge signs the papers ...

I don't know how to feel ... Ihave so much to be happy for and thankful for at this point in my life ... but I feel like I should not be sad ... like it is wrong somehow like it is cheating on my NB somehow by being sad and whatever it is I am feeling ...

and my NB is more than just the guy ... I am talking bout all of my NB ... it feels like I moved on and never really tried in my M ... like somehow I should have been able to save it ...

and I tried I really tried for 4 months I put my heart and soul into R'ing ... and he still choose her ...

so why do I feel bad about going on and being happy ... I am happy ... I have never known happiness like this or felt good strong independance like this ...

WTF already ... GO AWAY STBX ... and let me go on ... and he is really doing nothing ... and I mean nothing ... so the N/C is no issue these days ...

I still want the validation that somewhere in all our time together as friends and lovers I meant something ...

and iwant is right I am never gonna get it ...


I am fiercely independent and I won’t apologize for it. I'd rather be single than settled.

Posts: 18711 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Here, but not there ...
honesttoafault
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Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 1:52 AM, June 15th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

sorry double post!

[This message edited by honesttoafault at 2:07 AM, June 15th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 1897 | Registered: Jan 2010
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 2:05 AM, June 15th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There is so much to comment on!! This is a very good discussion.

M3: I admire how you were doing so much soul searching on your own about the pre-A marriage, yours and WH's contributions to it. BUT, I see that you seem to be trying to R almost alone. You are right, there are so many things to talk about with your WH. Possibly, you should try to talk about something simple right now, for example his getting annoyed at you for simple things. I know when I was trying in false R and ironically it was working well in our relationship (although in WH's mind it was R....he just wants it all)
I told him that I was going to stop feeling resentful if he didn't help me (or the kids for that matter). I would simply ask for help instead of fuming and feeling that someone shoud notice that I DO NEED HELP!! He seemed happy about my suggestion, and said I was absolutely right. He apologized that he doesn't notice, he's in his own little world and would help if I asked.
It has worked. I do ask the kids for help now, too. This is just an example. Perhaps, when you guys are calm, you might discuss this with him about him wanting you to do things a certain way and you don't know how....how can you both resolve this?
This is a baby step. It seems he is very impatient. This needs to pointed out to him and even if he is impatient,it doesn't give him the right to put you down. Set a boundary here and as Tryn might say, lovingly

Allgood: God, when I read your and M3's posts about helping out with the kids, it's dejavu with both WH's. I always felt like the built-in baby sitter while WH gets to have time off. Again, this problem needs to be addressed when both of you are calm. It's hard not to make sarcastic remarks. I have to bite my tongue all the time. There is so much I want to say!!!! I hold it in, because it's not worth it in the long run. (that was another thing I told WH I wanted to change about myself, for MYSELF. I always felt guilty later if I let out a really sharp sarcastic remark. LOL, I'm quite good at it!!)

Ats: I hope you are feeling better. Please don't make any decisions on emotions. Was it M3 who said that waiting until you feel one way CONSISTANTLY for several months before you make a decision!

Booger: It's good to see you. I'm glad that you are in a better place right now. Unfortunately, Miracle is right. You are never going to hear it from WH.

I would like to comment on everyone's post, but I have to reread them! My short term memory is getting shorter all the time!

ETA: Nothing much is going on right now. Just been feeling down this past week. I think I'm just coming to terms with a reality that most people have seen, but I haven't.
I go on facebook, and WH is there and starts to chat. I try to keep it to kids, but he's starting with "I love you, I miss you, you are a part of me, I can't live without you, etc"
See, Allgood, I WANTED so much to give a lot of sarcastic zingers!!! Like: I'm a part of you? better get ready for an amputation!
You can't live w/o me? You seem to be doing a good job of it so far, so get used to it!! <sigh>
I still don't understand why he keeps saying these things to me.

{{{{tribe}}}}


Posts: 1897 | Registered: Jan 2010
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 5:35 AM, June 15th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

O Booger - what happened? You sounded great at the beginning of your post & by the end you started falling apart?

You & I have the same anniversary btw & I am triggering like a lunatic & my H does not get it at all. (Tho he spoke with ic about it - I don't know what was said tho).

Anyway - I'm sure your H did have good times with you during your M or he would've left you.

Honest: OMG! He is still saying these things to you because he can't stand the fact that you are rejecting him! I know you know that. And, ya - it's hard to resist the zingers especially when they set them up for them so nicely (or maybe its because we see the A in everything).

O well.

As far as my anniversary - Miracle - I'm less sad about it now, but I'm certainly not happy. I really don't see any reason to celebrate it & so that's the way I left it with H. Luckily we have too many kid events tomorrow evening to do anything anyway.
Peace y'all.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

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