miracle. I did take you seriously! It was a serious laugh. See. What more could I do? Volunteer my services? Now that would be serious.
Seriously, miracle mother hen. O.K. is good for me right now. It is a hell of a lot better than many here. You need to drink a few mudslides this weekend. It is a holiday.
m3. Thanks for checking in. I hope things are going to work out for you.
Allgood. About your clients that cry and say they will never get M again. I had a old man tell me one time that the widow/widowers that cried the hardest at the funeral were in most cases the quickest to reM. He could back that up with several first hand experiences. I'm sorry that you are having a bad day. Hopefully the weekend will be fun for you.
UKgirl. I hope you are doing better today.
ats. Your W crying spell and the sudden relization about things reminded me of a incident concerning my W. Shortly after D-day I heard her crying in another room. I asked her what was wrong, kind of expecting her to drop another bomb on me. She was standing and looking out a window. She said "I can't believe I threw all of this away, and I can't believe I threw you away." Since D-day was pretty recent I was not very sympathetic with her. I was not hateful, but what she said did not mean as much as it should have. At that time she thought there was a pretty good chance that I was gone. I did later conclude that she really did mean what she said.
Hugs to the tribe.
UKgirl: You are right, it's the stuff after d-day adn the TT that is the worst. I also told WH that the marriage as it was is over and we had to build a new relationship (before d-day2) Things will never be the same. In a way, it's so sad, because there were a lot of good things. I don't know if it's in the healing library, but one woman compared the A like the house burning down and having to sort throught the ashes to find a few things that were not demolished, but the foundation was there, and they had to rebuild anew.
I also agree with you about marriage IS more than just the husband and wife and there is so much more going on. Complacency does take place and WS looks for newness. Also, so many WS's "cop"out of the marriage and the family problems. We can have problems with sickness in the family or an eldery parent that needs attention. Instead of helping out, one partner gets resentful and seeks attention elsewhere.
Ej: There seems to be a lot of us whose dday is coming up soon. Actually, I don't remember exactly which date mine was, just that it was the end of May sometime last year. I think I did make a note of it on last year's calendar, but I don't intend on looking it up. I believe we all get triggers still. Some of them come upon us like a sneak attack, we don't expect them and those can be the hardest.
About your children finding out? I don't know if finding a book on infidelity will cofirm in thier minds that mommy or daddy had one. My WH told DS15 and DS11 because of the OC's and he wants them to meet them. DS11 is confused and DS15 is upset and angry.
Lost Heart: I really love the idea of acknowledging your child in a special way. I love the idea of the balloon and especially the garden. I have wanted to do that for many years, but because of circumstances, wasn't really able to do it. Planting a tree is even better. We never really acknowledged the day because our angel DD died before her 2 younger (and full brothers) were born. I didn't tell them about her until I felt they were old enough to understand. My two oldest sons (DD's older half brothers) were upset about losing her, but we didn't acknowledge it in a special way because WH way of dealing with it was not to talk about it. NOW it is hard. Her anniversary is coming up (6/6) and WH told me that he named OC #1 the same name as our daughter.
BUT, thank you for the inspiration. I WILL make a garden for her this year and have my sons help me with it.
Allgood: LOL on Barney. Thank God DS is 11 now, although I do miss Blue's Clues (with STEVE)
I understand wanting to know certain things that are important to you for WH. and running away!!!!
You know, there say that there is a WS handbook, but I think the feeling of running away, to just keep driving on and on might be in the BS's handbook
Wouldn't it be nice to just go away for a day or two in a nice hotel and just be pampered!!!
I do understand hearing about someone's else's experience can scare you. But try to keep in mind that your WH has made a lot of progress. He truly seems repentant, but just hasn't figured out HOW to fix the problems. I pray that he keeps trying and learns.
M3: OMG. Your story brought me to tears. You had more than a double betrayal!! Not just WH but OW betrayed you and both your families!! You have so much on your plate right now!! You are working, have all your kids and an infant!! God bless you!!
The best advice I can give you right now is take a breather. Take it slow. I do believe that since this is WH's last chance, find out all the info you can before you act. Concentrate on you and the kids right now. You have time. I truly understand that you want to kick him out immediately, but go slow. Get yourself together and heal physically. I know I sound like an old mother, but you just gave birth!! You and your family are in my prayers.
nofun: I'm so glad that your children are discussing this with you and WH. It will help him to see how his actions has affected everyone. It will shake him up more. WOW! He wants to look at SI!! Great!! This sounds so hopeful
fnf: Thank you that you think I'm amazing!! That's just my facade
I agree that staying married is more complex the longer you are married. There is so much more to consider. Sometimes we think it would be so much better to divorce, but that brings a lot of heartache and hardship too. We often have to choose the lesser of two evils, and sometimes that may be to stay in the marriage and work out a new relationship with WS. Ann Landers often advised, "Are you better off with him/her or without them?" It's really that simple. One has to weigh in all the variables about either scenario. Of course, if one is being abused, etc, there is no question.
Anyway, thank you fnf for all your wonderful insight and help that you give so well to all of us here!
tryn: You have given good advice to Allgood (and similar advice to me). It IS hard to hear, but it is probably true. This is my second marriage, and I found myself saying endearments (honey, sweetheart, etc) to WH as I did to xWH without even thinking about it. Although, there are some things I vowed I would not do with current WH that I felt were special to me and xWH, (special way of signing cards, for ex.) but that's me.
Although it does happen that spouses get caught up in everyday life and stop giving love, gifts, affection, affirmation, physical touch and one may seek it elsewhere, it doesn't always happen that way. I KNOW I gave all that and more to my NPD WH. It was always about him. But he needed more and I can't fill a bottomless pit of need.
Atsen: It's so good to hear that you and WW are exploring ways to reach out to each other. Even something that may seem at first so simple as stroking someone's hair, is so full of affection, tenderness and love. Wonderful news!
Miracle: Interesting topic: is it cheating if you are in R or not? I agree that WS broke the contract, but the technicality is still there. The problem is that my WH said that he was unhappy, so therefore he WAS available. Somehow, in HIS mind the contract was broken because he wasn't getting his needs met and therefore it was ok to do what he did.
It is a good definition of "limbo" when you don't know what to do as opposed to having made a decision. What worries me is that you said that at least only you are miserable and not your kids. This shouldn't be. Please don't allow yourself to be miserable. I truly understand the pain you still feel and probably feel daily when pfm seems to be trying and cannot seem to be doing what he needs to do. You are frustrated. As you have counselled so many of us, try to concentrate on you so that you will be happy.
As for me? I put up a great front for 3 weeks. For the past 2 days I felt like just crying all day again.
Long story short: having major problems with car that WH bought from his friend. Anyway, I brought it to neighbor's (yes my crazy/wonderful neighbor) boyfriend (he's 60) who is a mechanic. He wouldn't let me pay him. I suggested that I take him and my neighbor out for a drink on Friday. (happy hour drink)
WH calls and asks about car. Stupid me, (as my name) I tell him about my offer to take them out for drinks. WH starts going on and on that it is not appropriate that a woman goes out with a couple like that. He's never heard of it, blah blah blah. I should take DS15 with me, etc. I shouldn't go out with another couple without him.
I just repeated to him what he said, he says he doesn't like it. I should've listened to IC, not engage, not tell him anything.
I couldn't help it. I laughed and said, "What are you afraid of? That we'll have a threesome?"
He got mad and said he was getting off the phone.
Ok, here's my problem. At first I feel angry, then guilty and then really upset. Why upset? Because I'll have to have the retaliation of some sort for my sarcastic remark. I know he's not here. All of this is making me realize that how I'm feeling right now is not healthy. OK, I made a sarcastic remark, so what? But this is what he has done to me. It doesn't matter to him all that he did.
Oh, and Miracle, I didn't go to the library because of this stupid car!!!
I think I could use some of those mudslides!!!!!
[This message edited by honesttoafault at 11:14 PM, May 27th (Thursday)]
Why upset? Because I'll have to have the retaliation of some sort for my sarcastic remark.
so lets do this..what retaliation do you think he could come up with?..and make sure its the worst thing possible...then whatever it is do you really think he could hurt you anymore then he already has?...no matter what sarcastic remark he comes up with on his own...it could never be worse then what you have already lived through...
i play this game with myself all the time...when i compare the new shit to the old shit, the new shit just doesn't have that same stink...it still stinks, but not as bad...
and please don't let him bully you anymore, take your power back...start singing that helen reddy song in your head, let it become you mantra and your vow to yourself...
I am woman, hear me roar
allgood: i loved barney, still have lots of his tapes too...he was my savior...and i still use him now with my big kids...he is punishment when they forget their manners..
and blues clues honest: theres a new guy now too, joe...love that one too..we even have the blues clues bowl and cup set..i kept alot of stuff, my new charges all love them too!!!
and mudslides sound awesome to me...
You are right, I need to be realistic. But I think I am progressing. The fact that I am actually realizing that being this upset and anxious in reaction to a little "tiff" is not "normal" is a plus. It's like acknowledging there IS a problem.
In a way, I did want to vent. How could he say something like that???? He's over there with OW and his other family and he has the NERVE to say it is inappropriate for me to go to a restaurant and have a drink with another couple????? A Happy Hour drink at 5 in the afternoon???? to thank someone for a huge favor, not because I'm going out partying!!!!! My partying is taking the kids to the movies and getting ice cream later. <sigh>
sorry for the vent. LOL now I feel guilty! (My mother was a travel agent for guilt trips!!)
FWH is in one of his moods and has been for a couple of days. I can't stand it and this is when I want to run. And...it's because either 1.) he's bored or 2.)I'm not paying attention to him.
I do read everyone's posts but I don't have any wise advice. How can I when I don't have any for myself. I just want everyone to know that I hear you and you are in my thoughts and prayers.
It just dawned on me that next weekend is my dday antiversary and I'm going away with the girls...I can't wait. Of course when I get back FWH will not be talking to me. Oh some things just never change.
I hope everyone has a great weekend
(Deep breath) - Honest - you know your husband gets to me... Lol..
As for broken vows: technically he broke the contract first unless he was smart enough to add all of his little contigencies. The contract has been broken - you are no longer bound to it. Sue his ass!
And, Honest - please keep it simple with this man. Unless you are concerned that he may pull the plug on you financially if you don't engage, then do not talk to him about anything other than saying "I need $" or "Here's your son, I'll pass him the phone".
And, if you believe he will do something to interfere with you or the kids'financial needs, then you better do something about that - you can't just tip toe around him indefinitely. (I know you need to gain strength & I agree with that - I'm just saying...)
How is he going to retaliate?
Seriously - I'm curious).
Miracle - while Joe may be younger & have a better voice - he's no Steve!
I'm still so sad this is what my life has come to.
honest. Thank you for your kind words. We have some plans for the weekend that should be fun. I am stocked up with food for the grill and beer for the cooler.
I'm sorry to hear about how your H acted about your car and the other couple. Like Allgood, I noticed he thought it was o.k. to take a 15 yr old with you to a bar. What if you had taken your son to a bar on your own. I bet your H would have been pissed if you had done that. He should be glad you got the car fixed and that he is going to get off with a drink or two to pay for that. Damn, it is so crazy to think that he really believes it is o.k. to do what he is doing and that what you are going to do is not appropriate. My W has always been jealous of me. I know that this comes from her being so insecure. Since the last D-day she has not been quite as jealous. I know at sometime I told her that talking to someone and screwing someone was a lot different. I added that unlike some people, I understood the difference. It is still in her though. We will be around some people of various ages this weekend. Some are only 30 or so. The young ones are clowns so I fit right in with them. My W mentioned that she was looking forward to seeing these guys since she really liked them. I told her I also liked being around their wives, as they were nice and really as entertaining as their H. She says she doesn't care for the women anymore. I say, you have always liked them why do you say that. She says, because they are competition. After a short time of silence, she said that she should not have said that and she did not really mean it. At least she figured out that she was wrong. The jealousy is a fact of life. Sometimes she can not control it. Years ago, I would have fallen into the trap of arguing about this. Not anymore. Your Hs attitude about your happy hour get together is similar only much worse. I hope you get to enjoy this weekend. Drink a few mudslides if you get the chance. And do not feel guilty about the venting. It is good for you.
nofun. A weekend away with the girls. I hope that you have a good time.
miracle. Are you gonna be mudsliding this weekend?
Allgood. Your H thought it was WRONG for you to listen in on the phone conversation? I bet you were pissed. When I read that I did laugh. It was a serious and sympathetic laugh though. These WSs are so stupid about what is right and wrong. At least all of us BSs know we are not the only ones trying to deal with this insanity.
Hugs to the tribe.
Oh well, I'm getting bogged down in details. It's all about control with him.
M3: YAY!!!!! I am SOOOOO happy to hear your news!! Curious though, did you find this out before you confronted WH?
I'm so happy to hear good news!
Allgood: I agree, Steve was better!! There was something about his smile that was so likable. LOL, what have we gotten to when we are discussing who is better on Blue's Clues Steve or Joe?
i too am curious if you confronted first and how he handled it?...it would be a great gage for future finds should there be any...his reaction should always be whatever it was on this one...
hey dip: you missed all the chat...sorry about that...i actually spent some time in other forums yesterday, as you already know i posted a bit of a vent in general...would you believe the idiot posted a plea on that thread...ds flagged him and he has been put on notice for his action...yay ds...
honest: you remind me so much of my sil, pfm
s brother's wife...she always feels the need to defend herself when her idiot husband is calling her out on something totally ridiculous, that only he would take himself serious on...and i yell at her all the time that she need not defend her actions when she is doing nothing wrong or nothing that is well within her rights as a normal human being in this society that we live in....her guilt has finally abated on all the crap, now you need to do the same....its time to put some steel in the spine to help you stand tall and be the amazing woman we all know you are....no more guilt, no more explaining....time to start living, really living for you...time for you to persue a divorce, and lawyer up like yesterday...the time between his coming back will fly....and now your car is fixed go take care of that library bill...then go get your masters...
allgood: we do seem to get attached to people, even people in tv shows, like steve.. ..
and i love listening (reading) when you go off on honest's husband, there is something almost cathartic in it for me...kind of like you swing into superhero mode...
oh and dip mudsliding this weekend sounds really really good.. i think i will..
tomorrow pfm and i have an appointment with the family therapist, just the 2 of us no kids...ought to be interesting...i think i will take a xanax earlier, i like it better when i am calm and rational....sometimes though i admit i like it when i have a feisty fit..
Drink a mudslide with the zanax. That would make for a interesting MC session.
M3 - I am so happy that you double checked...woohoo! It shits we have to live like this...you're right!
Honest - I think you should absolutely go to a bar. He has no say so anymore as to what you do! I'm heading to a bar next weekend with the girls and I am planning on whooping it up! I'll let you know how that goes!
As for me, I will be signing off for a few days as usual. I am looking forward to a exciting weekend. I have all the supplies I need except for one thing. Now I gotta go score a bottle of xanax.
Anyway, it doesn't matter, I know he has no right to dictate to me how I should act and what I should do, especially since he has no inner morality to guide him and I do.
Miracle: the car isn't fixed yet. It's a long, long story about this big job that has to be done. Hopefully it will be done next week. I can drive it for short distances now, which is fine with me.
Allgood: repercussions? I don't know. Besides ignoring me, which now I wish he would , I do get afraid now that he may withhold finances. He has never done any of this with me, but I've seen him with other people and he always wants to "teach them a lesson". It's usually financially or something like that. I don't trust him with anything anymore, although he said to me that just because he did what he did and I couldn't trust him with women doesn't mean that he is like that in EVERY aspect of his life. Of course this does make logical sense, but unfortunately, I don't believe anything he says anymore. My DS15 says I'm being paranoid, but I know I'm not. I trying to be realistic. I'm too emotional about all this to truly trust my gut
I am so much better off when I don't see him or even hear from him. <sigh>
Yes, Miracle, I need a backbone when it comes to dealing with him.
Pssst, Miracle....save some mudslides for me, but without those chocolate chips!!
I was going to a restaurant!!!!! To have an appetizer and a drink!!
you're doing it again here hon....no need to explain yourself...we would all even be fine if you did say a bar...you are a grown woman who is more then capable of making smart rational choices except so far when it come to your husband...you do need to trust your gut.....you are probably correct in assuming that he will try to lash out financially...so prepare for it....because my gut tells me your gut is on the money....and i don't think it matters when you make your moves, he will be completely pissed and will react so.....so line up those ducks and make sure they are wearing some bullet proof vests...
and you don't like the chocolate chips???
fun: so xanax and booze make naked...that is some equation there... ...but i need a bit more clarification, i sometimes need everything spelled out...did she have sex too???
..so line up those ducks and make sure they are wearing some bullet proof vests!
lol, lol, lol
That really made me laugh!!
I do like chocolate chips, but in my cookies, not in something I'm trying to drink, They won't go up the straw too easily!!!
I do like chocolate chips, but in my cookies, not in something I'm trying to drink, They won't go up the straw too easily!!!
thats why you use a spoon silly...
But I'm impatient and like to guzzle them!!