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User Topic: Long Term Affair... Part 18
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 3:35 PM, May 24th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

m3.. no you don’t want to be the “police”… This is hurting me just thinking about you right now. Please just think this through before you do anything just yet… form a plan.

I agree with Dip… you can “just ask”, but if he’s cheating again, he will just lie. If you take this path, be strategic. You want him to tell you. Just stick with things like, “it’s OK if you want to continue to be with another person. You don’t need to hide anything.” “I want you to be honest with me, be honest with yourself”…”It’s OK if I am not the spouse you need, we can work out our situation with the kids, Do you want to come clean?” What are you going to do if he still says no?

I think the polygraph plan will work. If he says yes, he will do it, and does it, I say he is not guilty. If he says no, I say he is guilty. But this method comes with a fight no matter what.

Keylogger. .. Does he use the computer you have access too? If you are going to use it.. Be very careful how you buy it… and I understand there are 2 types… one is software you load on computer and the other is a simple USB device; uses USB port or ps/2 type (round light purple). If you get the device, he would have to look behind the computer to see you that you added it and it is very small… Most people would never know. It would be found only if something was wrong with the computer or he was hooking something up for some reason. Ebay sell them but how to buy without him knowing?

GPS is good too. Make sure you place it in a good spot…

What about his cell phone records?

This might be the best way.. Follow the money. Do a credit check… this will find a hidden credit cards and any balances. You can get a free credit report via www.freecreditreport.com... Give them the your credit card to see a compete report, and after you look at the report, call and cancel… it may never show on your credit card… if it does, so what, you need to check your credit for safety….Most times, the guy will pay for the hotel. Look for unexplained cash. Did he take $100 or so that day? A day before? How did he pay for the event tickets? A few beers at the game would run about $50 - $75 or so…. Follow the money.

Be ready once he catches you snooping… Just say stuff like… this is helping me trust you… if you have nothing to hide you should fear nothing…

And yes.. I understand. For me, My W just calls OM without telling me, it’s over for me. That is my boundary that she’s once crossed.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 3:39 PM, May 24th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

m3.
If he is doing the false R thing, than HE is not trying hard enough. If R does not work out because he is still cake eating then HE is the one that is wasting everyones time. It is not your fault. That is a fact.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 3:53 PM, May 24th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LookingforLove… Your H has/is abusing you through making you believe a false reality.

only that mom and dad fight and argue alot...
This is not living a life of happiness… is it? Is that “a lot” you say? Do you really want that in your life?

Once someone commits adultery, they either become a better person or not… Sometimes people will fail many time before they figure out what life is really about… what true happiness is about… Its about being loved and having someone to love.

My W and I don’t fight too much… and if we do, we have learned a new way to communicate conflicts… It’s safe, it’s kind, it’s respectful… Even with all that I still feel bad sometimes.. My W has done so much.. me too... We both have changed.. Did you guys change? Do you want a life of fighting and unhappiness?

You are not going to be able to control what your H does or does not do… You can only control what you do… Iwant gave you the best advice... Do it!

I’m sure your fear right now it as strong as walking in a dark ally with no other people around; you are walking toward homeless men and they look scary.

It is time for you to reach down deep within and get some strength.

Your H is leaving you.
You will be rise above this and be a better woman.
You are not going to be abused again… the law is on your side.
You will fight through all the financial stress that is coming, and make it on your own.
A good man will someday cross your path and you will have great new feelings… but be patient for now…

It's ok to be divorced these days...

My prayers are with you right now.

[This message edited by trynhard at 4:00 PM, May 24th (Monday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 6:05 PM, May 24th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

m33, just slipping by quickly before I go to bed. Hon, take note of what’s been said here. I cannot believe your H is being so stupid unless he wants to be caught out. You’d think that they’d know ALL the ways to not get caught. So my take is either he has a legit explanation or he wants to be caught out and is waiting for you to confront him. Personally, if the BH is approachable, I’d get in touch with my suspicions and give it time to see if he can tally the dates and times. You have more than enough to deal with right now, so get an IC appt if you can find the time. Hard as it is, think with your head and not your heart. Truly, I can’t believe this shit. Biggest hugs. Take care. (((((m33)))))

LfL, welcome back. Things do look very bleak and it sounds as if your H has left the marriage, locked the door and thrown away the keys. Lawyer up asap. Get in touch with the mortgage company and any other financial companies you have debts with. If they work the same as here, they not only appreciate the honesty but they are more than likely to be helpful – freezing interest, taking lesser amounts, helping with refinance on another property, etc. It’s when they don’t know until they are chasing you for debts that they have little patience and then tend to call in a mortgage PDQ to get their money back. And then there’s all sorts of other problems to contend with. If your H is going to walk, get help. Now.

That’s the immediates. I’m off. Night all. Hugs to the Tribe.

I’ve booked a table for Wed when H comes home. I have so much to say but it’s all complicated and muddled. The stupid thing is I found out I was right about everything in those first few weeks. And I have no doubt I am just about right about everything since and everything before d-day having rewritten our whole marriage. And nothing is the same as before and he just doesn’t get it he doesn’t suggest anything to make it better other than time. And currently I am wondering if he should have kept on with the affair but just made it work better and banished the guilt or panic. She filled a need in him that I cannot and I don’t see how he can replace her as his muse.

Sometimes I think I am going fucking cuckoo.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 7:16 PM, May 24th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ukgirl: we are here for ya hon....whenever you are ready.....



i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 11:15 PM, May 24th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok, I had to take notes!

UKgirl: You are right, my WH is trying to hold me over the barrel with the finances and I'm trying to stay strong and smart.
I'm so sorry that your WH is being away for so long. It seems he's going back to old patterns because that was the way things were for so long and felt comfortable. It's hard to change old habits. I also really understand the feeling of not wanting feel married to your WH. We don't want to devote ourselves again like that only to take a chance on being devastated again.
I'm glad that you made reservations to talk to WH. NO WH should NOT have kept up the affair. OW did NOT fill a need in him that you cannot!! He has a need that he should fill himself, NOT YOU!!! NOT OW!!!! It's his problem. Throughout this painful journey and process, I have found that there are needs we have, but we should not put it on another person to fulfill them. Of course we all WANT to be loved, (and need to in a way) but feelings of security, self-esteem, etc. MUST COME FROM WITHIN OURSELVES. You cannot do it for him. {{{{UK}}}}}

Dip: Budslide!!! LOL

Allgood: I'm sorry to hear about losing a long friendship. That is painful. But maybe, like our relationship with WS's you may not lose the relationship completely, it just might change and become something else.
You said that if it wasn't for DDay, you were becoming a bitter, angry person. It probably was resentment building all that time. You were unhappy too. I think this is one of the hard things about R. Not only does one have to heal from the affair, but then the relationship also has to be mended or rebuilt and that can be a monumental task. This is why both parties have to be dedicated to the process. It does seem from your posts that your WH is willing and wanting, but lacking in the "know-how".
Congratulations on the race!!
I get tired just thinking about running!!

Tryn: I liked your advice about communicating that you gave to Allgood.

....You've communicated the best way, you've been fair to him and took the high road to help him know what you need
I like this advice. Then you know you've tried everything you possibly could have done. Congratulations on your half marathon!!! I couldn't even bicycle that!!

LostHeart: Congrats on being offered the job position. Keep us posted on what you decide.
I'm sorry about your anniversary of your DS's birth and death. WH and I lost our first child, a daughter, when she was 4 months old (full term baby). She died in June also. I understand the pain {{{Lost}}}

M3: I don't know how you are doing it all. 4 kids and one 2 months old and you're going back to work!
Good advice:

feelings are just feelings. A lot of times they don't really mean anything and they're a terrible way to make decisions.

I felt so upset about your discovery of that parking lot charge. I understand that you don't want to be the WH police, BUT since you have decided that this was his last chance, I would make sure and gather all evidence this one last time to make sure that it is false R. Once you are sure, then confront him. This way you know you had given him his chance and you made sure what it was. God damn them!!!

Atsen: I'm glad to hear that yoiu had fun with your WW. From your posts I can see that you are still feeling great pain and are still riding that rollercoaster. But I also see that you are giving yourself and your WW a chance to try to enjoy each other and build a new relationship. Bravo!

Miracle: Ramble all you want. I read and write "ramble" very well, actually have my "masters" in it and am working on my pHD! I hear that you are want to detach and are frustrated with your WH. You do hear him say that he feels like he's trying and that he feels that he is a changed man. You are a very compassionate, understanding, and empathetic person. It's hard to detach from someone that although they are not doing what you need, you do see that they FEEL they are trying. WH seems so desperate and it's hard to detach from that because you are such a kind and good person.
I'm very happy to hear that you and DD had such a great day!! Although raising teens can be so very hard, it does have its rewards!

Forgive: Thank you for all your support and wise advice. It really has helped in so many ways, although I wasn't able to answer you all the time. I liked your discussion about conflict avoiders. LOL, I think I am one too. Always trying to make peace or not stir up problems.

Looking: I'm so sorry to hear about your WH's actions! It's horrible that he decided to do it in front of the kids.
This is the hardest part, but try to take a deep breath and act as calm as possible. See a lawyer. Get all the finances taken care of.
One bit of advice I can give that has helped: As calmly as possible, even though you want to scream, yell, etc at WH (yes he does deserve it!!)
talk to him. Say something to the effect, "Ok, you want to leave. We have a history together. We've been together for a long time and have two wonderful children. I know I don't want to hurt you or "screw" you, and I KNOW you don't purposely want to hurt me or "screw" me. Let's try to be as kind and gentle with each other as possible at this time."

This is a very difficult thing to say, but it works. It diffuses the antagonism. Cry and scream in the shower later. Right now your goal is to do what is best for you and your children and if that means acting calm and in control to do it, try to do it.
Come here and vent. {{{Looking}}}}

Ok, I might have made a record for a long post!! I just wanted to catch up as much as I could. I was in my own little world for a while (it's ok, they know me there )

ETA: I think you guys might be proud of me. One of the last things I said to WH the day he was leaving was:
"I'm a lot stronger than you think. When you are not here, I take care of everything, house, yard, bills, doctors, kids, etc, etc. and when you come here I TAKE CARE OF YOU!!! "

Ta daaaa!!!

{{{tribe}}}


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 8:31 AM, May 25th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UK...
She filled a need in him that I cannot and I don’t see how he can replace her as his muse.
I really doubt this... All you can do is control yourself... Tell him what you want... What do you want UK? You cannot change history... what do you want going forward?

honesttoafault.. lol... "When you are not here, I take care of everything, house, yard, bills, doctors, kids, etc, etc" Yes you can....

M3.. you ok?

LookingforLove... You have a plan?

Peace out all...

[This message edited by trynhard at 8:32 AM, May 25th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 8:55 AM, May 25th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

honest: you sound amazing...i hope you feel as well as you sound...
scometimes just saying the words can give us the boost we need

and speaking of masters btw....i think today is a great day to call the library or better yet go there, its a beautiful day here...and this would be a wonderful way to make this day not only be beautiful but productive....


ukgirl: i was struck by something in your last post...if i am reading it correctly it's that you were right about everything BEFORE d-day....what about after d-day....what has he done since then...

i don't think our ws's perceptions of their relationships are ever going to be true and accurate in what they convey to us....you were pretty much already resigned to that fact...and i know that need to put your history in order, to know what it was so that you could put it away...but that is more then likely never going to happen....and you've known this...confronting him with what you have now means he will be back pedaling again....and once again you will be faced with the same decision....are you going to change your sich as it is now? what consequences will he have for this?...and how will this affect you?

now since d-day what has his behavior been?..has he changed enough? has he become the husband you need him to be?...

short of finding out about more women or disease...can you let the past lie....can you move forward knowing that you will never know it all...because hon, there is no way possible that you will ever know it all...i have come to that conclusion a long time ago....but can you move forward with the man he is today?...

i am so so sorry for all of this because it really sucks rotten eggs...and it still hurts no matter the answers...and my hope for you is to find peace with whatever decisions and choices you make....you so deserve that and more....


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 11:00 AM, May 25th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

honest. What you said to your H was good. In some cases I think WSs believe that their BS is just to dependent to actually D and be able to get by on their own. Maybe you gave him something to think about. I know it is hard to get through to someone who is NPD.

UKgirl. If you are fucking cuckoo, then welcome to the club. I think all of us probably qualify for the cuckoo honor at one time or another. The real cuckoos are our WSs.

Tribe. We have so many intelligent people here. Just yesterday m3 said "Dip you're right." Tryn said "I agree with Dip." Miracle even agreed with something I said. Damn smart people.

About filling those needs. Life has been a little more hectic than normal here. No big problem. This happens to everybody. Anyway I noticed I am not getting MY needs fulfilled. One of the top 10 reasons in the cheaters manual is, "I was not getting my needs met." I guess I am now qualified to have a A. I suppose I could discuss this with my W, but wouldn't it be so much easier to sneak around, lie, cheat, and steal time from her? Hell, talking to her about all this would just be way too complicated. Now don't worry, tribe. I'm not really thinking of having a A. This just shows how stupid these WSs were. Besides not having the desire to A, I would not know how to go about it. Not knowing how to go about it! That almost sounds pitful in a strange and warped way.

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
LookingforLove
♀ Member
Member # 12002
Default  Posted: 12:34 PM, May 25th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks guys for the input....

I have to admit that a lot of what I was feeling was fear, not being able to financially take care of my family, paying off bills ect...

He has done so much that I no longer have the fear and will take it one day at a time if he leaves again. If he leaves again, I will not allow him to come back....

I have a plan...get the house together, sell it and move on.
In the meantime, I am 180'ing and treating him like a roommate. I will try to keep the peace for my children....
Blessings...


Me: BS
Him: WS LTA 6+ yrs
OW: Skank Company HO
Status:
Divorce filed 4-5-11
WH served on 4-6-11 with D papers and NC order.
Divorced: 4/20/12

Posts: 1114 | Registered: Sep 2006 | From: Washington State
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 3:49 PM, May 25th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lost my post. Fuckity fuck. Doncha just hate that?

FNF It actually wouldn’t make any difference if he had a locally based job and was home every night. I’d still have triggers.

Many of us have witnessed our H's breaking down and sobbing and admitting their fear of losing us. They expect to lose us, they believe they deserve to lose us and they almost appear to be crippled by their fear and sometimes just seem to sit paralyzed waiting for the inevitable.
He said his biggest fear was losing me. Actually, I think his fear was losing this life he had. Not me alone, but knowing that by losing me he would lose all of it. He would be totally trashed and he would find that really hard to cope with. And he would be clobbered financially as well. It was the thought of his world crumbling, not just losing me. He’d had long enough to work out the worst case scenario. Golf- got the clubs (old, recond’d). it’s just not for me. I might do enough to get a handicap, but I haven’t taken to it.

But yes, we need to talk. But I know it makes him shut down. and I don’t know how to play it or how much to say or what my priorities are.

Miracle, it’s the stuff after d-day. When I didn’t listen to my guts or have the courage to follow through. Instinctively, I saw through his lies, but thought he was telling the truth and that I was being paranoid or just plain pessimistic. The whole business of trickle truth and each one, while upsetting (well, devastating all over again), I knew he had been minimising or lying. KWIM? I have gone over every year that we have been together. It doesn’t matter what he says if he were to read it, as far as I am concerned it is my new truth. He lies. I analyse. Although I have not asked him anything for months and months. No point, I know he’ll lie.

I need him to understand that if the past is to be left behind, we have to start over again. That the marriage IS finished (I still don’t wear a ring) and the old WH and I are divorced. That this relationship is still quite new and I am still cautious as this man knows everything about me and was a friend to WH. He needs to understand that things will never be the same, however much he wants it to be.

Honest, you are sounding good, finding your inner strength. Know that we are all here for you.

"I'm a lot stronger than you think. When you are not here, I take care of everything, house, yard, bills, doctors, kids, etc, etc. and when you come here I TAKE CARE OF YOU!!! "
Oh yes, “Ta daaaa!!!”

Tryn’, it’s not a case of wanting to change history (although don’t we all?), it’s that 80/20 thing. I don’t think she was ever even 50%, but the percentage she was to him was vital; vital as in vitality, she made a part of him alive and I don’t think he can find that inspiration from within himself. And so it goes back to being dormant and unfulfilled.

Dip – I agree with everything you say.

I will get out of this funk.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
ejs5
♀ Member
Member # 24607
Default  Posted: 1:31 AM, May 26th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To all the people hear do you remind your so of d-day anniversaries? Just curious mine is June 2nd...I don't think my husband recalls things like that he can string together all the dates important to him but not ones I find important. It is a comfort to swing in this week, and see that some people are still moving along. I feel like I'm never going to get over triggers, every time I see a picture that was taken during the time of the affair and he is smiling I just want to tear it in half. Also wondering what happens if one of your children find out about the affair what do you say...I have a couple of books(about affairs) hidden in a drawer and I sometimes wonder whether I should hide them somewhere an 11 year old won't look...I was snoopy at that age and can't help but think she will be snoopy too. Counseling Thursday:) Hope it goes well...off to bed for the night. Hugs to everyone and especially those facing anti-anniversaries.


DD June 2nd 2009
Me BW 38
Him WS 40
No reconciliation was all false 2.5 LTA now a couple of months affair...

Posts: 256 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Done
Lost Heart2
♀ Member
Member # 21793
Default  Posted: 3:36 AM, May 26th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

and i ask you, do you love him, all of him, all of who he is...or do you love who you thought he always was?

Tough one, Miracle, my friend. This sounds like the cop out it is but I really don’t know. How do I love all of him when I don’t know all of him? Heck, I don’t think he even knows who he is. All I can judge is what he has done/doing, and even that is not comprehensive because I don’t/cant know all of his actions. He is not consistent in his behavior which further complicates it. Or maybe I am complicating it by wanting to see more than what is I front of me? Argh!
And do I love who I thought he was? Not anymore. That pedestal crumbled some time ago.

***
Thanks FNF. You are a sweetheart! Its good to see another oldie on. How are you?

***
M3, I agree with the side who heed caution. Gather your evidence with a clear head. This is a war and you need all your wits around you. The Tribe is behind you… stomping our feet.
(((((M3))))

***
Looking,
I am sorry you are back in these circumstances.
Go back to all that you learnt when you first started – about looking after yourself, eating, sleeping properly. Go through Katherine’s list - something I wish I knew after my ddays.
Big big hugs.

***
UKG,
I am sorry you are in funk. You and me both. Maybe its this crazy UK weather?? And no, you are not cuckoo –I think you are scared of being vulnerable again.
Has your IC tried out EMDR with you yet? Maybe it will help…

***
Dip,

Tribe. We have so many intelligent people here. Just yesterday m3 said "Dip you're right." Tryn said "I agree with Dip." Miracle even agreed with something I said. Damn smart people

I agree.

***

Honest,

WH and I lost our first child, a daughter, when she was 4 months old (full term baby). She died in June also. I understand the pain

Can I ask how you and your family acknowledge this day?

My 3 children gave me varied responses, FNF, about they want to spend the day, from relaesing a heluim balloon to heaven to giving money to a chns charity in his name. As H has caught the gardening bug, I asked to plant a tree in our gdn. Our gdn is too small for a magnolia tree so I settled for a magnolia shrub. This is the first house we have ever owned and I wanted my baby to have his place in it, KWIM?

***
EJ5,

To all the people hear do you remind your so of d-day anniversaries?

As this is your first antiversary, I strongly advise that you have a chat with H now. Dont assume that he will do anything for if he is like most WSs they just want the day forgotten and done with. Think about how you want to spend the day? And keep it an option that you might just change your mind on the day. Its a horrible time, theres no getting away from that. So please please be gentle and kind to your self.

***
((((TRIBE)))))


LTA BS

Dday#1 02.06.06
Dday#2 28.11.06


Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.


Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: London, UK
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 6:02 AM, May 26th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Morning all.
I know I've been a bit quiet lately - I have been reading everyone's posts - but for some reason that is currently unknown to me I'm sad, sad, sad. My H has actually been great as of late & perhaps that's it - I can really ask nothing else of him & I'm still sad - so that makes me feel a bit hopeless. Like - will I ever be really happy & 100% present in my life again. I assume with time...
Well, there are 2 things I really think I want from him:
The first is to tell me his "story" of the A so I can really understand it. (I'm not sure if I'm even going to ask him for this because I am 95% sure that he will summarize this into 1 sentence & I will get frustrated.)
The second is the list of 10 things or so in the "Not Just Friends" book that kind of outlines why the A was started, continued, etc. and what wh was getting out of it. (He's never really said what he got out of it - just having fun & getting attention he wasn't getting at home is the best explanation I received to date).
Anyhoo...

As to DDay anniversaries - there is no way in Hell my H is going to be aware of the date - except that we happen to be going back to the exact same "scene of the crime" this summer, same place as DDay. Now that I see this in black & white I am wondering exactly what the Hell was I thinking when I planned this trip - but I know I was thinking about my kids.

Actually, now that I think about it (up to my 2nd cup of coffee now and the light bulb is starting to go on..) I wonder if M3's experience is what's got me down. I have to admit, I think about it a lot & it really distresses me - for her, of course, but also for me - I look at my H & thinkg M3 said her H was doing everything right & now look...

M3: I hope you are ok & I admire your patience. There is no way I could wait to confront. First, sometimes with a WS that is very good about covering his tracks (my H is the same) all you are going to get is the random 1x mistake. There may not be anything else to "catch". (Plus, honestly - to me - a hotel parking receipt - well - sometimes you don't need anything else to corroborate your conclusion.) And, I know with my H - the more time that elapses from the event and the questioning - the more crappy answers like "I don't remember" and "I have no idea" gain plausibility.
Just a thought.
But - I really hope you are well. As far as the kids go -maybe you could try do what Miracle does initially. Not that I wasn't going to be dating at the same time, but that's what my H & I were going to do when I discovered he broke NC.

UKGirl:

I don't wear my ring either. And, like you, I told my H that as far as I'm concerned we broke up. I do not feel obligated to stay married to him & that we both need to make an affirmative decision to stay together - it should not just be the default position.

He said his biggest fear was losing me. Actually, I think his fear was losing this life he had.

Same here.

Dip: I gather that you are unable to really communicate directly with your W as to what you need given her personality. What else can you do/say that will give her a gentle nudge in the right direction.

And - as far as not knowing about having to have an A - I get the humor in this, I do, but seriously, I feel the same way & I think it's because some people, like us, never, ever consider cheating. Our spouses are very lucky.

Miracle & Tryn: hope you are ok.

Honest & Fun: hope you are well.

Hugs to all.

EDIT: Tryn - I forgot to add that I was on another forum yesterday & saw a great big, colored chart & instantly said - "Hey Tryn must've posted!" And, it was you!

[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 6:03 AM, May 26th (Wednesday)]


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 7:01 AM, May 26th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm still alive....reading everyones posts and lurking...I lurk so well!!!

ejs5 - my dday anniversary is the same time as yours. My H has no clue about dates and I have no intention of reminding him. I just want to go forward and not think about it. It does get triggery though. This past year has been brutal!!!

will I ever be really happy & 100% present in my life again

allgood - I think about this daily. I am NOT happy! So what do I do about it? The only conclusion I can come up with at any given time is to bail out of the M. But that isn't what I really want. So confusing. I've never felt so confused in my entire life.

honest - I hope you are well...you sound like you are getting stronger. When your H leaves do you feel a relief of sorts?

((((UKgirl))))

You are in my thoughts Miracle.

My oldest daughter sat down and had a heart to heart with me. She said she was concerned because I come in the door from work and immediately make myself a drink. She said it's like I can't survive the next 5 hours with H without the drink.

Then she said that she noticed the tension between H and me and it's horrible and very uncomfortable. She said neither of you speak to each other unless you are in a group setting. She said she can see that I'm angry, bitter and sometimes just plain mean to H. She said "you can't go on like that, it's not healthy". She said, "you need to get help with your anger."

My kids and their SO's were over for dinner last night and for the first time my son mentioned the A and how people gossip. There was an actual discussion and each of the kids said how unfortunate it is that people pass judgement on others and why can't people just mind their own business. My FWH even joined in on the discussion. I was shocked to say the least but maybe this was a breakthrough for him. And this morning before H went to work he asked for SI's website. He said he wants to read what other WS's are feeling. HOLY COW...I may just have a stroke!!!


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 8:54 AM, May 26th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can't decide if I should talk to my H first or just call her BH. My instinct says talk to H and if I get a weird vibe from him then call her BH. I cannot think of any possible reason for him to have been there, but if by some (slim?) chance he's still NC with her, then I don't want to stir the pot.

I was wondering if you have spoken to the OW's BH in the past. If you have, then I think it might not be a bad idea at all to contact him and go over the 2 dates you know of with him. I know you don't want to "stir the pot" but perhaps if the BH is reasonable to talk to then you could just let him know that you hope he won't tell his wife of your suspicions unless of course you find out that she was MIA too. I also think that if she was MIA on those dates, it gives you more ammunition when you confront your H. This is just IMHO maybe others would disagree with this approach. Allgood is a D attorney - I'd like to hear her thoughts too.

There is another charge for parking at the same place a week later.

Another thought I had when I read this was that the next time he tells you he is going somewhere at night I would be tempted to go to that hotel and whether you drive around the lot looking for his car or sit there and see if he enters the hotel, might be another way. If his car is there, then I would call him from the lot, ask him where he was, and then tell him you are parked next to his car and want him to come down immediately.
I don't know if this is possible if the lot is too large but I would definitely want to check this out.
I have done this on several occasions when my H told me he was going somewhere and when I would find his car where it was supposed to be, I felt very relieved.
Again, this is just me and how I think I would handle your situation. Many hugs to you, M3.
Tryn - I thought your post to M3 was great - lots of good advice.
He said his biggest fear was losing me. Actually, I think his fear was losing this life he had. Not me alone, but knowing that by losing me he would lose all of it.

You know UKG, I have to admit that I felt the exact same way. That is, I didn't just stay to work this out with my H because I was so in love with him and couldn't imagine life without him, but for so many other reasons too - practical ones. I didn't want my life to change. Everything else in my life was fantastic, my kids, our friends, our families, finances, even our time together. I didn't want to break it all up. I didn't want to risk losing some friends, losing touch with some of his family that I love, splitting the finances, selling our home, and worst, having to split holiday time and special occasions. It's all very complex, KWIM???
And the more years you are married, the more intertwined your lives become and the harder it is to tear it all apart. Loving our S is just one piece of a very complex puzzle, IMHO, and only a small fraction of my decision to stay. Now, having said that, if I no longer loved my H, that would have made the decision easier but even then, because of the above, I'm still not sure I would have left. I do believe I still would have fought to save my M and my life that I loved.
I believe, and I think you know this to be true, that your H loves you very much, that he sincerely regrets what he has done to you. So maybe he did have other reasons to stay and work on your M but then, don't we all?
I'll be thinking of you tonight and hoping your H can comfort you and reassure you of his love for you.
(((UKG)))


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 9:07 AM, May 26th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood is a D attorney - I'd like to hear her thoughts too
.

LOL - I wish I had all the answers! Unfortunately, in my state, infidelity is a non-issue & there is no need to investigate it for anything other than emotional reasons, so I really don't have any inside scoop on any of this - by the time I get involved people have already completed their investigation.

My only suggestion is, however, to use a GPS tracker - the kind with real time tracking so you can see when he's there & immediately call him.
M3 and I are similarly situated as far as our children & careers go, so it's difficult for us to leap in the car and start following these guys around.

I left my H a "note" (2 pages typed) this morning essentially giving him the opportunity to correct everything I know to date without penalty. There are a few things I've learned that trouble me and I hope he uses this opportunity to come clean.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 9:09 AM, May 26th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nofun. It sounds like you have some good children. A very good real life support system. Your H can learn a lot from the WSs here on SI.

UKgirl. You made me laugh. Funny and smart! I hope you get out of your funk soon.

Lost. It is good to hear from you. I agree with you too.

ejs5. I bet my W would not even be able to remember the year of D-day, so as far as knowing the exact day, forget that.

Allgood. Things are not real bad for me right now. There are just a bunch of different distractions in life for her right now. I feel like I have been put on the back burner some lately. But that is life. It happens to us all. It just made me think that situations like this is a excuse they use to justify having a A. Boo Hoo, my needs are not being met, so I guess I need to give myself to someone else. How stupid is that? No logic there. Sometimes we can not be the #1 thing in our M. Jobs, health issuses, sick relatives, children, etc, can all take away from our time. You just have to deal with it and not take it personally.

I got the "needs not being met/fullfilled" crap. I bet if you asked her what those "needs" were, she could not explain. The excuse that she gave me that did made sense is that she was "sick and crazy."

Recently, when I was sitting around feeling neglected I joked to myself, (joking to myself? That shows how pitiful I am.) that maybe I should get out there and have a fling. Then I thought, shit I do not know where to begin. Of course I know starting the A is not that simple most of the time. It is why the work place is such a breeding ground for the A. Did I just say breeding ground?

I agree with you. Our SO are lucky to be with someone who is not disposed to being a cheater. I am not sick and crazy. Well, maybe a little crazy. I'm sure everyone here will AGREE to that.

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 9:18 AM, May 26th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tribe. We have so many intelligent people here. Just yesterday m3 said "Dip you're right." Tryn said "I agree with Dip." Miracle even agreed with something I said. Damn smart people.


Dip, you really crack me up!!
Anyway I noticed I am not getting MY needs fulfilled. One of the top 10 reasons in the cheaters manual is, "I was not getting my needs met." I guess I am now qualified to have a A.

First, I'm sorry you are struggling because I know in your situation, it must be so tough to talk to your W about your needs when you're so busy trying to help her with hers. Life just isn't fair sometimes. In fact, sometimes it just plain sucks.
Hopefully, coming here is helping but I do hope you have others IRL that are there for you. Are you in C'ing?? Are there friends or family that you can go to when you need someone to listen?? I know I could never have gotten this far without the support and love of some very important people in my life. And SI of course.
Well you know you have us if you need to talk. (((Dip)))
As H has caught the gardening bug, I asked to plant a tree in our gdn. Our gdn is too small for a magnolia tree so I settled for a magnolia shrub. This is the first house we have ever owned and I wanted my baby to have his place in it, KWIM?

LH - This is such a beautiful idea. What a wonderful tribute to your beautiful baby. I don't know if you have seen the plaques that are made to place in front of trees or bushes but that might be nice too to place there. My cousin had one made for me after my sister died .
It has her name and the dates of her birth and death and reads:
They whom we love and lose are no longer where they were before. They are now wherever we are. It has a couple of butterflies on it too. Maybe you'd prefer a different quote but I love this plaque and it is in my garden now. I'm sure there is a website that offers other ideas if you think this is something you might like to do. We'll be thinking of you and will be here for you to listen, to send hugs and to hopefully give you comfort. (((LH)))


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 9:33 AM, May 26th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgoodnamesgone… Yep that was me… I saw your post too… lol… Our minds are so strong that it is so hard to understand why people cheat. I know 100% why… It is about greed and selfishness. You can talk to your H all you want, but his ego is so large, his self preservation so strong… they admit in a “quick way”… a “moving forward way”… They quickly admit it was wrong… and it is natural brain chemistry to try and not see the evilness, the horror in what they have done… they talk themselves into trying to moving on… moving forward… not wanting to see the true sinfulness of the act. Nobody wants to admit there failures… it’s hard to do.

My W and I once had a discussion and she was telling me she was a good person. I said, No you were not a good person during those time… It really hurt her. Her mom made a point to say that she was very upset that I think of her as being a bad person. It’s true, she was a hideous person when she lived her life like that. She hurt me, my kids, OMW.. OM family… It is a fact she cannot change.. nor ever will change. I choose not to point out her evilness any more. Today, she talks the right way.

If you cannot find a way to live with your spouses failings, then you need to divorce because you will never be happy.

Allgood,… I really don’t want to hurt you but I know you H’s story. It was never about you. It is the same for most all A’s... Your H is not going to tell you what you want to hear, so I will… strong language coming… why do you need to know anyway? Let me tell you your H’s Story. It started with talks… working together.. that’s the social setting from my chart… that’s where he got caught in the web… Then slight hints of flirting, by both… then wham.. a kiss… a rub… Because us guys want pussy so bad, he took it. She obliged because the lust became overwhelming, felt good to her too. It all feels so good… We all love to have sex…It is in our chemistry. After the first time, it gets out of control and it becomes regular because it feels good. You got that? It feels good to have someone stroking you… giving you affirmation and physical touch.. all parts of love… This kind of relationship always is about making each other “feel good” with all the languages of love, affirmation, gifts, physical touch. Over time the evilness, broken promises, start to set your mind in a mode where WW justify the A because deep inside they begin to feel like shit (a mental conditions takes over, chemicals are released) WW's become unhealthy…blame shifting… because WW’s are trying to force themselves to health! WW brains find ways to compartmentalize it…WW’s proceed to change the M relationship, changes toward you spouse (ie Less sex, more anger, etc.) WW’s start to see all the bad things about there spouse, so they can decide what way to go…. I’m sure your H wanted to leave you too. It hard for WW’s to act because the children’s bonds, the financial bonds, the partnership is so strong… It is confusion and messy…

He’s not going to tell you these things I say Allgood… he knows it, but it is hard to call yourself Satan. He does not want to even think about what has happened to him… I think he knows what he has done was about as bad as anyone could do in life. To force him to tell his story over and over is just not very kind.

I say you need nothing more. You know he “did her” and it for a long time. You know it happened. No need in knowing what sex positions… what hotels… squad car.. etc… Yes they did it all that and it’s all bad. You know things that will raise a flag once he starts the same behavior… That is all you need to know.


I say you focus on things you both can do to make the best possible M… my desirables I post. You control what you can and show him the documents, the studies, that prove what a real relationship is all about… then it is up to your H to decide if he wants that… he must also want to do the desirables…


Let's see if Dip agrees...

[This message edited by trynhard at 9:42 AM, May 26th (Wednesday)]


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