It's a long and brutal row to hoe
revenge on OM-- I held down the urge to pummel after running into him (kids were there, xBIL talked me down)
Later (a year), a few anon phone calls to a few of his board members at the non-profit he "directed" (as a concerned tax payer) with dates, questionable expenses related to an affair, and a recommendation they review his archived e-mails... and he was gone within two weeks... even had to leave the state...
Careful who your IC or MC is in Las Vegas, though.
Quedagh...you are officially my hero!!!!
Anyway, for me, the rage against the OM was greatly diluted when I learned that there were at least a dozen of them. If there was just one OM, yeah, I'm sure I'd still be in a rage against him. But to have directed, targeted anger at hordes of them? Nah, it disperses and fizzles. And yes, they aren't worth the shit on my butt hairs.
I've also come to think that one of the most powerful things we can do to these pricks is not even acknowledge their existence. I never did. I'm sure a good number of them are now aware that they were found out, that I divorced my wife, and that my two young girls are now part of a broken family. I've got to believe that if that doesn't affect their conscience, what possibly could?
[This message edited by OnceInALifetime at 1:42 PM, October 19th (Tuesday)]
The anger faded and I eventually found my sanity again and the last OM from my ex's escapades while being married to me is now the BSO of XWW. Some people never change....at least he's decent to my two oldest kids.
In my current situation, from previous experience I never really felt anger towards OM; disgust maybe, but not anger.
The anger I feel is towards my WW.
Anyone worry about the men who show up in JFO and then disappear?
Hopefully, they had no kids & they bailed outta the M immediately.
It can be pretty overwhealming.
I got lots of really great advice that in hindsight i probabaly should have been significantly more aggressive in implementing.
But i wasnt ready to see my WW as the enemy, i found some of the advice really harsh especially the ones suggesting i boot her to the curb.
Sometimes in some of the threads in JFO i see the same advice offered in a dozen posts in a row, i imagine that the Original poster may often feel like they are being bludgeoned, that this is what they must do.
These days i pretty much agree with most of the advice, in which case i try and find an alternative angle, or expand on something that i dont think has been made really clear up to that point....
Then again, a lot of guys just cant really get comfortable talking about how they feel...Id firmly believe that this also plays a significant part in the numerical imbalance between the sexes here at SI.
I mean I found out about EA about 4 years ago, married her anyway after she begged me for another chance, I was in love... still am..
Found out about PA ( same man) about a year ago...
I started posting about 2 weeks ago, but have been lurking form DDay 2...
When does the hell end.. when do you actually feel you are going to get through this..
At what point did you graduate from the JFO feeling..?
I am not sure that "graduate" describes it for me, more like climbing up an icy slope. I would make progress, and then slide back down into the valley. I think I am at a point that even with backsliding I am beyond the shock/numb part of the A discovery.
I was numb for 2-3 months, then things got better for a while. At about 6 months I was getting a lot of rage and at 7 months I got many more details from FWW. A month after that I started to again feel better, and then she set it all tumbing again. I moved out for 2 weeks, and got new perspective. I think it is the moving out that got me clear of the A and enmeshment with her issues. So in summary, about a year.
It is no longer A stuff that haunts us, but M stuff and her issues with communicating and meeting my needs. I still think about her with the OM, but it no longer eats at me or affects me personally.
We are past the A crap, at least I feel that I am. FWW is working, somewhat reluctantly, with an IC on her black and white thinking and splitting. We do things together; she gives me more attention in a month than I got in any year of most of our M. She is working with me on parenting (although a bit late with youngest 15). She sees her misperceptions of me and the M for the last 20 years, and she has acknowledges her issues.
We just rarely have sex or other intimate physical touching. If I initiate she will usually "meet my need", but she almost never initiates and real sex with both giving and receiving is maybe every two months, it is hard to tell with all the other conflict. She liked the idea of practicing Tantric exercises to build intimacy (an issue for her), but the books, pillows, and other accessories just sit in the corner.
She is not a morning person, so no time then. Evenings seem to run late and I am usually in bed (10 pm) before her, so at best before sleep sex is rushed and on a timer. Evenings are busy and DS15 is around. I suggested meeting at home for long lunch or afternoon (we both work near home), she got very upset with that sounding like what she did with OM and said clearly that is not "our thing" and we will not do that, ever."
She has some recent problems not atypical of post-menopausal women that I am sure cut into her feeling sexy. She never wears her lingerie. I have asked her to not take all of her make-up and jewelry off for sex, but she comes to bed washed off and in an old T-shirt and granny panties. I have thought of taking Prozac or another AD to cut my sex drive (what is left of it) thinking I would then be OK with how things are. I can assure you that this is not an issue of poor hygiene or bad technique.
We had virtually no sex the two years prior to dday, and damn little prior to that. Prior to our M the sex was frequent, inventive, and passionate. Due to HER internal issues, she began withdrawing from me, including cutting back on sex almost as soon as we were married. This has always been a sore spot with me. As I have aged, my needs are much less, but still once or twice a week seems reasonable, especially as physical touch is one of my 2 love languages. Our life is much better, but this last issue is bothering me. We have talked about this, often. There cannot be any question in her mind of what I would like and want. It just seems, I don’t know, not right, to end a 20+ year M with children because I want more sex.
One thing that struck me is that she wouldn't want to meet you during lunch time, because that's what she did with OM. Man, if you can do that without triggering, you'd sure as hell think she could.
My totally uneducated hunch is that she has hang-ups about sex, and the meaning of it has become perverse for her. The fact that *she* triggers means that she sees sex as something unclean, maybe bringing up all kinds of guilt related to her cheating and who knows what else.
Just my wild hunch...
No passion or intensity from her, only in two separate positions, kind of like how I would imagine geriatric folks would do it...
And on average once every 7-10 days. And with only three exceptions I initiate it everytime. And if I didnt, we wouldnt.....
I understand your point, much too well. My WW stopped having sex with me when she started her As and prior to that I was lucky getting any once a month for the two years prior. Next January will be two years from when she started her As and it is now six months since I confronted her, and we still haven't had sex.
Last week, though, she did have a breakthrough in IC, something that needed to be done in the long run but very bad in the short term. She remembered through emdr that she had been sexually abused as a child. This past week I have done a fair amount of reading about what this means for me as the spouse of a survivor and see reasons for how she treats me and sex and family as a whole. A quarter of girls and a tenth of boys are sexually abused as children and a fair number never deal with that fact. It might be something to look into, though I hope it is not the case.
As for a D due to a lack of sex? It seems like a superficial reason, but we have needs. I'm not saying that this should be the sole reason for a D, but it may be a breaking point. I'm wondering where my breaking point is and hoping that I don't actually hit it.
When does the hell end.. when do you actually feel you are going to get through this.
The rage and desire for revenge left after about a year and was replaced with resentment.
Exactly! I told her last night that I've forgiven her for screwing other guys. I've even let go of her serial lying. What I will not forgive is all the years of silence, withholding affection, and a practically celibate existence. Why should I be punished for something she did wrong? Infidelity: the gift that keeps on giving.
To the BH's whose wives are currently whoring it up what the hell are you doing?
not a thing that I am aware of, in fact I'm really distant/cold.
Maybe she has the hots for some new guy?
I had placebo sex once after OMM came to her work-dunno if she got interrupted or what, but she came home really hot & bothered-I found out later it was the same day OMM came by...
Where do you guys come down on this? For me, there's no question. It's all about the physical act. My X cheated with many men, only one of whom do I know for certain she had a real emotional involvement. To me, her having sex with him is no worse than the others. All just as appalling, because they crossed the line and committed the act.
If an "emtional affair" implies a secret romance, yes, that's awful. But to me that seems a prelude to sex, which consummates the adulterous relationship in a way that utterly and completely defines it as infidelity, as a direct and undeniable affront to the marriage, and the entire family.
Not having been the victim of a solely emotional affair, I'm sure I have no idea what I'm talking about. I guess I'm wondering if I'm being shallow by being troubled so much more by the physical act than by any emotions involved. To try and answer my own question, I'd say that she *knew* that she was crossing a line, and chose to do it anyway, over and over. That's like spitting in my face.
Kind of talking to myself here.
Other than the fact that getting emotionally attached to someone other than me could lead to physical sex, I don't really give a damn. Most of us have moved beyond the sixth-grade mentality of having a "crush" on someone. What were they doing, passing each other notes? The more I think about it, the more creeped out I get about who I'm married to.
FWW did have an EA "only" with one OM and as I indicate, it is harder to know exactly where it went beyond flirting. Certainly by the time they were having phone sex together it had crossed the line, but which text, which comment, etc? In this EA it was not love, but the attention.
Oh, and she did not catch any STDs from the EA, she did from the PA.
Early on, my WW admitted an EA with OM#2. It was heartwrenching and so forth, start counciling, start working on the marriage..... I dealt with that for 9 months. In those days, it was more like “why doesn’t she like me anymore and excluding me” and what we could do to find that again. I couldn’t get rid of the idea that it wasn’t physical though. Then I started prying into OM#1 and really started suspecting that one more of going physical (less phone calls and text at odder times which led me to believe in physical meeting versus a phone relationship.. Also OM#2 lived a couple hours away).
Then she finally admitted OM#1 was a PA after I found hard evidence of a gaslight (her condom story when I threatened to confront who she told me they were). It seriously changed everything. The EA’s really became almost a non-issue and so minor as compared to the physical affair. I just can’t describe the emotional pain difference.
The next one that wasn’t as hard to take was the difference between a 3 month physical fling (DD#2 confession) and her finally admitting it was really a year and a half (DD#3). The length was not as great of a factor to the emotional trauma. Later though it plays a bigger factor in the ability to ever trust again.
Not even the continuation of her EA underground after DD was as devastating as knowing she whored it up with another man (and a pos at that). The EA’s for me became these phone relationships; damaging to our relationship, poor judgement and against “the rules”, but near that slippery slope of fidelity... it was more of a fantasy and dreaming. Taking it out of that fantasy land and having sex was without a doubt impossible to convince me she didn’t know or this was just poor boundaries.