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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 5
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 9:02 AM, May 3rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

.. I am pretty sure that she is a high functioning Borderline personality with a bunch of Narcissitic personality traits thrown in.

IMHO this description fits ALL women.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3088 | Registered: Sep 2007
awakening1
♂ Member
Member # 27360
Default  Posted: 9:24 AM, May 3rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Please let us know how it goes. Every positive thing that happens for you is great and also a good thing to hear for everyone on this thread.

With temps in the high 70s, and humidity over 70%, it was NOT a good day for running. Still, I finished within a minute of that PR, and just under 100 minutes, despite having only about 2 hours of sleep the night before due to the mind movies racing around my head. 6th in my 40s age group, and 24th overall. Damn proud of that.

Mid-day Saturday, she decided that she needs space, and wants to pursue a healing separation. She is looking for an apartment, but she still wants us to bird-nest so the kids wont choose sides. On the one hand, I don't buy into, or endorse any of her bullshit. On the other hand, she is actually talking about taking time to herself to figure her shit out. She is now pursuing IC. She actually read the chapter of the Bruce Fisher "Rebuilding" book on Healing Separations upon my request, and reiterated that she wanted to pursue the steps to personal discovery that were outlined in that chapter. She said, for the first time, that she wanted to be free to explore and grow. She said she wasn't interested in pursuing contact with him during this period. She maintains that no physical contact has occurred, under both of their preferences, for months, but there is some work and social contact that she won't give up.

She also said she wanted to be able to test out taking care of the kids on her own to see what it would be like to be a single parent. Naturally, since my trust in her was shattered a few months ago, I can only go so far in taking her at her word. But she did fess up to the adultery as soon as I asked, despite the legal damage she did to her case in doing so.

I have my own expectations about what she will find when she tries to take care of the kids on her own -- she rarely has success keeping her shit together when she has the kids on her own for any period of time now -- but I'm starting to wonder if any continued resistance on my part to what she is outlining is futile. My big concern is that, should I agree to bird-nesting as she is describing, my kids will feel like I am abandoning them during this period, when she has been the one pushing us into this. We planned on having an additional discussion about this yesterday, but we both were too exhausted to get into it again.

Anyway, I'm trying hard to stop the monkey mind that has been stirred from this mess. Upon the recommendation of a fellow further down the divorce recovery path than myself who I met at a local support group meetup, I've been listening to several Audio CD, and reading several books, from Pema Chodron. Currently, I'm on "Start Where You Are." In this one, she lists several Tibetan lojong (mind control) practices. One I have been pondering, with some recent benefit, is "Regard All Dharmas as Dreams." http://lojongmindtraining.com/Commentary.aspx?author=3&proverb=2


Me: BH, 43
Her: WW, 41
Kids: 2 (9 and 6)
D-Day: 11/21/09. WW tried to bust up another marriage, but got dumped. OM/St. MF apparently wasn't so saintly after all.
Drafted S papers in 1/10. Filed in 1/12. Court date set for 1/13.

Posts: 79 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Northern VA
Maxiom
♂ Member
Member # 26001
Default  Posted: 9:42 AM, May 3rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Word to the wise.

Regardless of existing advice for a healing separation, those of us here have seen this far too often.

What it really means in many cases is "make it easier to see OM."


Me: FBS/WS 41
Her FWS/BS 41
My DDay - March 10, 2007 Whole Truth - May 2007
Her DDay - March 2, 2011
True NC March 3, 2011

Posts: 435 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Canada
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 9:44 AM, May 3rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

awakening1.

she decided that she needs space, and wants to pursue a healing separation

I dont know why I should be astounded by this. But it never ceases to amaze me how all WS seem to read from the same script. And yet think they A is so special.

She need to find her self. She need space. She need time to self exploration.

What a pile of pig shit!

And what is really sad is how many of us BS allow this. As if being beaten by the A is not enuf. Now we have to be tortured by a self entitled WS with no remorse who want to have *space* to go shag they OM.

Razor


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3088 | Registered: Sep 2007
awakening1
♂ Member
Member # 27360
Default  Posted: 9:59 AM, May 3rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wish WW wasn't getting so much affirmation from people when she tells them. Obviously, people who have been friends with both of us for years aren't going to start screaming "whore!" and "homewrecker!" when she tells them, but I hate that she is walking away feeling supported. She doesn't desrve support right now after what she's done, and I don't even see how it is a subjective issue.

Nothing about it is right, but it takes a level of courage and candor that few, if any, people really seem to have. Most people find divorce or separation between friends of theirs to be a very uncomfortable thing to be around, and their normal posture is to avoid it. Possibly, your WW is interpreting avoidance as support, but either way, you aren't going to get much of a reliable signal through her hearsay discussions.

I remember feeling the same way about WW's friend and co-worker who had St. MF as a client. I even saw one of the gushy "soulmate" emails from St. MF to WW upon which said friend was CC'd. For a while, I was as pissed at WW's friend for condoning this crap as I was at WW and St. MF. I thought of her as a co-conspirator and enabler. Eventually, that subsided, and I have been able to resume visiting at WW's friend's house for cookouts and the like. In sum, I was disappointed in WW's friend, but she was WAY down my list of things upon which I had the capacity to focus my emotions.

As Chodron said, "If someone comes along and shoots an arrow into your heart, it is fruitless to stand there and yell at that person. It would be much better to turn your attention to the fact that there is an arrow in your heart, and to relate to and tend to that wound." I take this as advice to tend to my own more immediate needs first, before worrying about how to convey messages of indignation to more remote people who have disappointed me.


Me: BH, 43
Her: WW, 41
Kids: 2 (9 and 6)
D-Day: 11/21/09. WW tried to bust up another marriage, but got dumped. OM/St. MF apparently wasn't so saintly after all.
Drafted S papers in 1/10. Filed in 1/12. Court date set for 1/13.

Posts: 79 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Northern VA
awakening1
♂ Member
Member # 27360
Default  Posted: 10:06 AM, May 3rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What it really means in many cases is "make it easier to see OM."

She need to find her self. She need space. She need time to self exploration.

Now we have to be tortured by a self entitled WS with no remorse who want to have *space* to go shag they OM.

Yeah, I got that. Read about it. Continue to have doubts about it. Confronted her directly about it. The question then becomes, what can I do about it? VA requires 12 months separation before divorcing. She hasn't signed the S papers I drafted, and neither have I. One of us has to start the S for the clock to toll. I don't want to file -- I want her to start working on R.

At least, I think I do. Maybe the time for me will help too.


Me: BH, 43
Her: WW, 41
Kids: 2 (9 and 6)
D-Day: 11/21/09. WW tried to bust up another marriage, but got dumped. OM/St. MF apparently wasn't so saintly after all.
Drafted S papers in 1/10. Filed in 1/12. Court date set for 1/13.

Posts: 79 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Northern VA
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 10:13 AM, May 3rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IMHO you should sign the S papers. Just because they are signed does not mean that you will D. But it will send a signal to you WW that you are serious about this and that *might* knock her off the fence.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3088 | Registered: Sep 2007
Maxiom
♂ Member
Member # 26001
Default  Posted: 10:14 AM, May 3rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Move forward with her being with the OM as the outcome. Since it is very likely since she will not stop contacting him.

In otherwords.. stop using words like “trial” or “healing” separation. It’s now a separation leading to divorce. Make that very clear to her. Correct her every time she uses those words.

Move forward. Finalize the agreement. Separate the finances as completely as possible as soon as possible.

Forget this nesting business. Sounds an awful lot like cake eating. So go no contact with her save for issues involving the kids.

No one said this shit is easy, but in my opinion I would much rather go through with the pain now then later.


Me: FBS/WS 41
Her FWS/BS 41
My DDay - March 10, 2007 Whole Truth - May 2007
Her DDay - March 2, 2011
True NC March 3, 2011

Posts: 435 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Canada
thyme2go
♂ Member
Member # 12908
Default  Posted: 10:54 AM, May 3rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She also said she wanted to be able to test out taking care of the kids on her own to see what it would be like to be a single parent.

So - if taking care of the kids does not work out for her, are you plan B?

Bro - like the other have said, the healing separation is desired so she can have her way with OM without your interruption.

Most separations lead to D. Mine did as that was the final straw for me.

-t2g


BH - no longer 48
3 DD's - (27, 24 and 17)
Divorced on 8/6/09

Posts: 9145 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: Eastern Washington
oftenwrong
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Member # 27822
Default  Posted: 11:43 AM, May 3rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It seems to me there are 2 options.

You can file for S and she will continue to see the other man.

Try to reconcile and compromise and she will continue to see the other man.

Make no mistake, she already made her decision and right now is looking for the path of least resistance.

[This message edited by oftenwrong at 11:45 AM, May 3rd (Monday)]


ME - BSO (35 yrs old)
Her - XWSO (31 yrs old)
LTR 10 years - There can be no 2nd chances


Posts: 995 | Registered: Mar 2010
Finallyawake
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Member # 21554
Default  Posted: 1:26 PM, May 3rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

12 months separation? Yikes.

I just have to add to the list of folks advocating signature on the separation agreement. Start the clock now, don't wait.

If you allow her to sit on the fence for six months only to find out that she is still lying about her boyfriend just think about how pissed you will be to know that you could have been six months closer to ending it had you filed now.

As for the nesting, forget it. We talked about the same thing. I quickly figured out that I would have a harder time healing from the D if I had to sleep in a place where she was banging her boyfriend. Not the same bed, mind you but knowing that the other bedroom in the apartment was where she cheated. Or that she might bring her asshole boyfriend to our marital house if the kids were sleeping over at a friends house. If you go to a D you need to start your own separate life and that means cutting all ties except for the kids.


On my own and a better man for it

Posts: 458 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Phoenix
jasper
♂ Member
Member # 28168
Default  Posted: 1:35 PM, May 3rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Saw WW's apartment today. Brought over a rug that had been delivered to the house (and just really wanted to see the place). Weird feeling. I felt ok about my daughter being there. It's shoddy new construction (looks nice cosmetically, but you can tell it was done cheaply and hastily), but it is a nice size, it's safe, and herroom will be decent.

Didn't make me as upset as I thought it would until I thought about the fact that it will be the OM's home away from home. Then I wanted to vomit.


Posts: 696 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: New York
Buzz09
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Member # 25971
Default  Posted: 2:05 PM, May 3rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

12 months separation? Yikes.

It's what my XW and MIL thought would be a great idea since I moved out of state.

Regardless of existing advice for a healing separation, those of us here have seen this far too often.

What it really means in many cases is "make it easier to see OM.

Bingo!


Me BH 40
WW 41

Posts: 648 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: buzz09
jasper
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Member # 28168
Default  Posted: 9:40 PM, May 3rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Struggling today. You know, I like to run, and I think it should really help the situation. I'm having trouble now, though. Seems like every other run sucks. I'll have an awesome run and feel great afterwards, and then I'll follow it up with a crap run where I get shin splints (despite mad stretching) or just crap out.

I'm pretty healthy, and I know how to stretch and prepare myself for a run, but I'm falling short lately, and it makes me feel like shit afterwards.

Honestly, feels like laziness, but it's way more overwhelming. I'm in the middle, and I just get fatigued, or a cramp. It's pathetic. And then the whole run takes on this failure tone. I rely on it to get me out of the funk, so when I crap out like that, it just sucks even more.

I know it's all mental, but it makes me feel like a pussy, and a bad example for my daughter. Anyone else deal with this?


Posts: 696 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: New York
oftenwrong
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Member # 27822
Default  Posted: 9:48 PM, May 3rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have been getting that the past week. Extreme fatigue where I have to stop mid way and walk home. I even had to sit down for a while one time. Never done that before.

I think a mixture of stress and alergies are the cause.

I read online eating carbs one hour before running helps. I tried it and it seemed to work.


ME - BSO (35 yrs old)
Her - XWSO (31 yrs old)
LTR 10 years - There can be no 2nd chances


Posts: 995 | Registered: Mar 2010
Finallyawake
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Member # 21554
Default  Posted: 9:51 PM, May 3rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Totally. I worked out like crazy while going through her affair and our subsequent D.

I also cycled back and forth between strong runs/lifting to really lame weak ass efforts. Some days I was just so mentally fatigued and maybe just depressed that I only lasted five minutes on the treadmill. Most days I did much better.

I just finally accepted the reality of it and just hoped for the best each day that I tried which was EVERY day.

Just remember that you would be in worse shape physically and mentally if you did not work out at all. That's what I held on to when one day's workout was shit.

Let go of the worry over it and just keep doing it every day doing the best you can.


On my own and a better man for it

Posts: 458 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Phoenix
SoCalDad
♂ New Member
Member # 28234
Default  Posted: 12:58 AM, May 4th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I get the same feeling. After DD I started running. I got up to 16 miles and lost 65 lbs. Lately, I guess since I made the decision to seperate and divorce, I have to force myself to get physically active. I've gained back about 10 pounds. I am going to try to force myself to run every other day and try to keep it to 5 miles or under so as not to burn myself out. That hopefully will help with the down feelings I 've been having lately.


The Gypsy lied

Me: BS 50
Her: WW 51
2 DD 2 DS
Married 23 Years
DD May 2009
Filed for Divorce Feb 2010
Divorce Final July 2012


Posts: 18 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: So Cal
atsenaotie
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Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 7:47 AM, May 4th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know that loss of appetite has left me out on the bicycle without enough energy reserves. I have a can of Ensure in the bike bag with a couple bucks so if I get 10 miles away and start to fade bad I can buy something or drink the Ensure to get home.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
awakening1
♂ Member
Member # 27360
Default  Posted: 8:24 AM, May 4th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just remember that you would be in worse shape physically and mentally if you did not work out at all. That's what I held on to when one day's workout was shit.

Let go of the worry over it and just keep doing it every day doing the best you can.

Good advice on working out, and frankly, for getting through the day and night in times like these.

Thanks for the other comments. The upside of signing the papers is that she officially waives alimony (VA is a fault state, and I have her adultery admission, as well as other evidence), and I start the clock. The big downside is the discussion we both would have to have with our kids. We haven't been ready to do that for 5 months, and I don't see it getting any easier. I have read Gary Neuman's Sandcastles book, and spoken with counselors as well as a college friend who works as a child psychiatrist out of state, but I still don't want to deliver the message to DS (6) and DD (4).


Me: BH, 43
Her: WW, 41
Kids: 2 (9 and 6)
D-Day: 11/21/09. WW tried to bust up another marriage, but got dumped. OM/St. MF apparently wasn't so saintly after all.
Drafted S papers in 1/10. Filed in 1/12. Court date set for 1/13.

Posts: 79 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Northern VA
TwoHearts
♂ Member
Member # 20647
Default  Posted: 2:58 AM, May 5th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The WW first told me she was sorry about the affair and then took it back and said she was glad that she had sex with another guy. Then she told me how kind she was by not sleeping with someone local

Not sleeping with anyone local? Oh, thats ok then. Just don't spend the grocery money on plane fare dear. :)

My WW actually answered one of my questions about why she had her LTPA by saying "because he was so nice and kind and good to me". When I asked her if she thought that it might have something to do with the fact that every time he was soooooo nice to her he knew he was going to get laid with no strings attached, she said "no it was because he really liked her and made her feel good." I asked her if she thought she was his only conquest and then I asked her if she thought it would be the same if he had to live with her full time like I do. Got no answer to that one.

Funny, she later broke up with him because he turned out to be an ass; she just forgot to mention that part in the first five times through the story.

I am sorry, but if my wife says anything ever again like she liked the guy or is glad she had sex with someone else again, there will be no possible chance of salvaging this mess.

I am very aware that some WW do everything it takes to R with thier BH and they should be recognized and commended for their dedication.

But where is the wiring hidden that actually lets the rest of them think like that? I do not think that it is inbetween their ears...I looked deeply into her eyes and saw that the lights were off.

Does the fog ever really lift?

I have to hand it to some of you who are way ahead of me in the healing process, and I have been trying to R for over three years now. Keep up the good work guys.

[This message edited by TwoHearts at 3:03 AM, May 5th (Wednesday)]


1Sa 22:23 (NIV) - "Stay with me; don't be afraid; the man who is seeking your life is seeking mine also. You will be safe with me."

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