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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 5
zombieman
♂ Member
Member # 28996
Default  Posted: 8:18 PM, August 17th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WAL and Mighty, thank you both for your posts, your feedback is what I keep telling myself I need to do. I need to control my emotions a lot better than I do sometimes and not just try and reason with her and make her see my POV, its frustrating as hell as she is unbelievably insensitive. Telling her what I am going through has not worked at all so far. Fear is the mind killer and if I don't see anything from her I start assuming the worst. I need to detach to keep my sanity.

Posts: 88 | Registered: Jul 2010
HurtingandLost
♂ Member
Member # 29322
Default  Posted: 12:12 AM, August 18th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I read lostcause111's post and thought I was reading a page out of the past few years of my life. I work 45-60 hours a week (depending on whether or not I'm on the road, usually 3+ months out of the year), and recently (about 8 months ago) started going back to school full time becuase of the Post 9/11 GI Bill. Daycare for three small ones costs us $2200 / mo, and the GI bill takes that burden off of us. Throughout our marriage, my non working to sometimes working wife has gone out on shopping sprees, weekly Bingo sessions, etc. I have been imprisoned; If I even mention going out fishing, camping, shooting pool, or anything else that I used to enjoy before I met the wicked witch from hell, I get the tyrade from hell. SO I've become indifferent. She refused MC that I wanted for three years now, and then went out of town for training for her new job a month ago and had a fling. Came back with a laundry list of how I am the anti-christ, took no responsi bility for anything, said she was sorry she hurt me but was almost happy she had the affair becuase we're talking again....and then went to late night Bingo. WTF. But she wants to work on things. Whatever. At least after berrating her for two weeks she at least agreed to counseling. I will stick around to see that through just so she can hear from someone besides me how fucked up she is. I truly believe she is bi-polar. This sucks


holding out hope
UPDATE: Hope's Dead

Posts: 430 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: CO
HurtingandLost
♂ Member
Member # 29322
Default  Posted: 1:10 AM, August 18th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Read more posts. My God, I wish I had found this site after my first marriage went to shit(she is a pathological liar and cheat). I have been spending the past few weeks on the fence, not sure WTF I should do, going back and forth in my mind as to whether or not after TWO women do this to me if I'm even worth anything more than a piece of shit. I have been playing both sides of the fence; On one hand I have almost been groveling and catering to her but on the other hand I have started a slush fund, albeit meager, as a slush fund for when things are no longer tenable. I go back and forth with guilt becuase I have two kids from my first marriage who want nothing to do with me unless they need something (then they call), when they do spend time here they hate me, etc. In this marriage there are three kids, one of them is actually my step son, but I am the only Father he has, as the sperm donor was apparently smarter than me and cut ties as soon as freakin possible with her. I dont know if I could actually spend the rest of my life with FIVE kids that hate me. But I also know after reading these posts that I dont need to kiss her ass for anything. I do need to start taking better care of myself, and do more to heal ME. The marriage, whether it continues or not, will do either based on HER. I've held this shit together for TOO long on my own, and the only person I should be responsible for is me. I should have learned that a long time ago but hell maybe I'm a slow learner. I'm just tired of feeling like a used piece of shit to be used as needed by selfish bitches.


holding out hope
UPDATE: Hope's Dead

Posts: 430 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: CO
SourCherryDrops
♂ Member
Member # 25883
Default  Posted: 3:00 AM, August 18th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wal, Mighty thanks for the input. I remember when i first started posting here and i was like man his WAL is in a seriously screwed up M. Hes here vehementy telling us he doesnt give a shit an is only staying around because he couldnt be bothered Divourcing, and his WW sounds like a nut job. ... then he was gone for a month or two, Im pretty glad that what came back doesnt seem to be the same man as before, what we have now is a better man.

Still the one point that both you guys have over me is that at least your FWW's never decided to quit or leave the marriage themselves.

My S is not my idea, i really believe that we could have worked things out eventually, even if she wasnt really commited to the marriage now, but she has chosen to leave, Maybe as a result of the S she will see that i am able to carry on with my life, that i am a man worthy of holding onto, of persuing, but i dont have a lot of hope, I think she has a filter before her eyes and only sees the bad.

I actually think that what mighty posted describes the 180 really well, in the begining he tried to live up to what his W was telling him she wanted, I have to agree that in many cases this strategy is proably flawed, primarily because i think very few WW's actually really know what they actually want. Rather most just feel that they are not happy with what they currently have... (regardless of how good that is.. i cannot count the number of times my WW istold my other married W how lucky she was to have a husband like me). They have not taken the time to sit down and think through what they are not happy about, and what it is that they really want.

Then he started to focus on himself, a full 180 from during the M.... he got to the point where it didnt matter if the M succeeded or failed because he himself was stronger...he was focused on his own needs.

The hard point is getting to that decision point, that place where you decide enough is enough, and start to focus on yourself, and because its seems so counter-intuitive to us on an emotional level i think its understandable that many of us try lots of other paths before we take that one.

@HurtingandLost No you do not deserve this, nobody does, And although its hard to say that there is apttern from only two instances perhapes you can look at the other women that have been in your life too.... those where things could have gotten serious, is there a pattern, attraction works at the subconcious level, and we are often attracted to those that make us feel comfortable in the situation ie where a relationship dynamic is created that we recognise, that we know how to live with. You may like to think about exploring this further with an IC. But know this no-one, none of us deserve to be treated like shit our whole lives.

I dont know what to say about your kids, If you former Spouse has poisoned them against you then i hope that she realises the very real and lasting damage that she has done to her own children. Also if they are teenagers then hating the parents seems to be pretty much par for the course, and youll not find a more self centered bunch, not even amoungst our WW's than teenagers.


Me BS 37, Her STBX 34, 1*ONS, 1*EA 1*PA/EA, 2*PA
Heading for D after 9 mths of R

Posts: 1468 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Europe
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 6:20 AM, August 18th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I remember when i first started posting here and i was like man his WAL is in a seriously screwed up M. Hes here vehementy telling us he doesnt give a shit an is only staying around because he couldnt be bothered Divourcing, and his WW sounds like a nut job. ... then he was gone for a month or two, Im pretty glad that what came back doesnt seem to be the same man as before, what we have now is a better man.

A back-handed compliment if I've ever heard one.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
lostcause111
♂ Member
Member # 19109
Default  Posted: 7:27 AM, August 18th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you WAL for your post.

You made me think of something that I forgot recently.

You have to let go of outcome. You were never in control of the survival of the M anyways. You can only control you.

The highest level is when you are no longer angry and you live your life for you. You are indifferent about them and the M. Your M and your WW become much smaller aspects of your life. You cease to be defined by your M and living for their amusement because you trying sure is hell is not working.

Wasted time and effort.

This is the point where they have no choice. They can stand up and become a partner or stay as a passenger.

Along the way you are much better and will survive and thrive M or not.

If they have not left and you are a good ways out from d-day and you are pretty confident of no further cheating what the fuck do you have to lose? Absolutely NOTHING as their is NOTHING at this point in time.

And think about it. You begging sitting trying face it is not attractive. As strong as our WW are they need to be put in their place. Does that mean being an ass to your wife? No. What it does mean is when you believe in yourself and do what you need to do and they bitch you know without facts it is BS and just bitching.

And you answer their bitching with a smile.


Posts: 934 | Registered: Apr 2008
Jimi40
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Member # 10909
Default  Posted: 8:07 AM, August 18th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I've followed Mrs. Winc's posts. Wow! That's a WW that gets it!!


You've got nowhere to fall, when your back's to the wall.

Posts: 5524 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: Niagara
wincing_at_light
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Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 8:54 AM, August 18th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'd agree, Jimi.

But I also want to add this: one of the things she says now is that the most important thing I did *for her* in our process was not coddling her.

When I abandoned her to her own devices to heal myself -- when I told the marriage to fuck off -- she was forced to stand on her own two feet for maybe the first time in her life.

If I'd tried to "fix the marriage" or "help her heal", it would have actually been detrimental to the whole process. She would have sat back and let me do all the work.

I won't pretend that I had some master plan that worked out beautifully here. You've all seen too many of my posts. I abandoned her and the marriage to save my own sanity. But it turned out to be the recipe that we both needed for success. I needed to heal myself without her help. She needed to heal herself (and be forced to do it on her own).

It's a risky proposition, I think. We've seen plenty of WW's on SI who have buckled because they wouldn't/couldn't work on themselves once their BH checked out. But R is a risky proposition, and I'm not sure that a BH coddling his WW into working on herself actually helps with the probability of success anyway.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
Jimi40
♂ Member
Member # 10909
Default  Posted: 10:12 AM, August 18th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I read all of that in her posts, too. I'm inspired, truly, and have told her that.

I think as far as 180's go, your's was nuclear powered.


You've got nowhere to fall, when your back's to the wall.

Posts: 5524 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: Niagara
lostcause111
♂ Member
Member # 19109
Default  Posted: 11:00 AM, August 18th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I want to thank all on this thread.

I have touched what I needed to do but could not sustain but I feel back on the wagon again of what i need to do for me.

When you get Zen on the 180 it is almost natural. It is not a list or a plan with a goal for saving the M. It is about becoming you and not the co-dependant fool many of us became in our marriages.

I would not even call it 180. I would call it taking care of yourself.

It is really seeing reality not letting the buttons which ironically you allowed to be installed and believing in yourself and living your life.

The M is not in your control anyways.

It really is the ONLY way to be. be happy and yourself despite the situation.

Very hard because for years I was molded into somebody who was not even me.

This will become the make or break point and is in a complex but excelent marriage book called The Passionatte Marriage.

When you hit critical mass you are notcrazy and out of control. You are in control of you and believe and now where you are going.

This may be exactly what you need to have R but it may also end it.

You have to be ready for that possibility and the stupid coddling "working on the M" shit we try is exactly that bull shit. Investing in you is the best thing you can do for your M or if you leave.

You take the investments in yourself with you whether married or not.

Stay strong brothers.


Posts: 934 | Registered: Apr 2008
HurtingandLost
♂ Member
Member # 29322
Default  Posted: 12:41 PM, August 18th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you all for your insightful posts. I have been going back and forth between the groveling fool and the jackrabbit without considering what is best for ME. I should have learned before from my first WW but I never really understood some of the dynamics and coming on this site has been very grounding and eye opening. I am beginning to feel less stressed, and although this all is still very raw (only a month since I found out), and I fully expect some more off days to come, I am strangely feeling better and better about myself and my future prospects. Regardless of whether or not the M reaches R or not, its not all on my shoulders anymore. Its almost like having a thousand pounds lifeted off my soul. I will continue to read and post as new thoughts pop into my seemingly ADD mind.


holding out hope
UPDATE: Hope's Dead

Posts: 430 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: CO
Lotsa
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Member # 28078
Default  Posted: 1:05 PM, August 18th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It’s 4.00am in my part of the world and thinking back to nearly exactly the same time 8 years ago today when I rushed my 39 week pregnant WS to hospital, overjoyed (and a little anxious at the same time) at the prospect of impending fatherhood. In an instant however, the reality of what I thought existed at the time, together with my world as I knew it came crashing down with being told that the heart of our son-to-be had stopped beating. Coupled with my WS being rushed to ICU post-delivery and herself relative inches away from death, I faced mortality in the eye and it was an evil looking SOB. The heart-wrenching pain, devastation, stress, anxiety that resulted was all consuming for years. The emotions still rear themselves now, sometimes more often than I would like.

I am ashamed to admit that for 5 months now I have felt the near identical emotions and feelings following the fall-out from outing my WS’s A. So much so in fact that I feel as though I am being unfaithful to the memory of our son to compare the two sets of emotions and yet they are so very familiar to me.

12 months ago today, my WS went to work to be in the arms of OM (her boss) to cry on his shoulder and obtain comfort from him concerning our son’s stillbirth. So, today on what would have been his 8th birthday, I grieve alone for the loss of our son and the loss of our relationship, but with a resolve that if I can survive this, I can survive almost anything.

A little battered and bruised for the experience as I was once before, but so to this will pass. Not entirely perhaps, but life moves on.


Posts: 880 | Registered: Mar 2010
wincing_at_light
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Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 2:23 PM, August 18th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Are you saying that 7 years after the stillbirth, your WW exploited that trauma to solicit attention from her OM?

Holy shit, that is fucked up.

Yikes, man. I don't even know what to say.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
Mighty
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Member # 26909
Default  Posted: 3:00 PM, August 18th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The hard point is getting to that decision point, that place where you decide enough is enough, and start to focus on yourself, and because its seems so counter-intuitive to us on an emotional level i think its understandable that many of us try lots of other paths before we take that one.

That was just like WAL’s... Here I was plugging away at the R and then pure dumb luck hit. I noticed a open drawer in my wife’s bathroom cabinet. So, I took a look and found a pre-paid calling card and started looking into it. Found she’d used 200+ minutes calling her EA... This was 7 months into the R and MC. To top it off, the “discussion” afterward eventually led to the confession of a PA which she claimed EA originally, and eventually led to the discovery that PA and EA continued well past DD#1. It finally broke me completely....
WAL’s post basically covered my own realizations...


BS (me) 44 WS (her)43
Married 17yrs, Together 20 yrs
Three children (9-13)
D-Day #1 - 4/11/09 (me).. DD's stopped, she quit talking. Body count: 6 OM, 1 OW. (2 EA's, 1 LTPA, 1 PA, 3 "kisses").

Posts: 629 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Denver
deeppurple
♂ Member
Member # 28757
Default  Posted: 3:53 PM, August 18th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((lotsa)) Thinking of you Bro.

Wincing - I'm with you on what yr saying. Ive only just cut my WW free to save my sanity, save myself & to save my kids. Only she can heal herself - the fact that my WW is continuing with the A with MOM says it all. Until she hits rock bottom & realises that she needs to change its no point in working on a Marriage that aint there. So working on me & bonding ever so closer with the kids & making her as jealous as hell as Im enjoying being a father & a man.She is no longer in the fog she is in a fucking cloud & then she will fall & expect someone too catch her. will i be there ...time will tell.

[This message edited by deeppurple at 3:54 PM, August 18th (Wednesday)]


Me - BS 49
Her - WS 43
Married 16 yrs (together 17 yrs)
DD13 DS10 DS8 DS6
DDay 1 6.4.2010 dday 2 7.25.2010
Heading for divorce.
"Never look down on someone unless you are helping them up"

Posts: 522 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Where the sun is shining & the surf is pumping
HurtingandLost
♂ Member
Member # 29322
Default  Posted: 4:09 PM, August 18th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I feel for everyone on this thread....seems like we all married the same woman.

My wife went out of town for business again (I just got back and I leave again a day after she flies in), so my Father in Law was watching the kids for me last night while I was in class. He went on to tell me how he and his wife are behind me 100%, how screwed up she was, and how he tried to warn me how nutts she was before I took that leap of faith into marriage number 2 (eyes wide shut).

Even went on to tell me how when I wake up and leave her he's got "the perfect girl" for me, who aint into the crazy and drama like I've put up with for 5 years.

Did Jerry Springer just move into my house and start broadcasting my life???


holding out hope
UPDATE: Hope's Dead

Posts: 430 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: CO
Lotsa
♂ Member
Member # 28078
Default  Posted: 4:19 PM, August 18th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Are you saying that 7 years after the stillbirth, your WW exploited that trauma to solicit attention from her OM?

Not sure if "exploited" is the right word... She was in the thick of her A at the time and admits that she raised the "anniversary" with him, whereas she never raises it with others (family excepted) as it was always our "special day". So if that's exploitation, then yes. If it was just another excuse to obtain external validation from OM then yes it was.

And thank you DP...

Did Jerry Springer just move into my house and start broadcasting my life???

Nah, HandL, he's been too busy broadcasting mine...


Posts: 880 | Registered: Mar 2010
longsadstory1952
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Member # 29048
Default  Posted: 5:25 PM, August 18th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lotsa, I'm seeing a lot more pain in your threads lately. I hope you are coping. Don't really know your back story, but I saw your W had a thread about a month ago about how she fucked everything up. Since then, nothing. I hope you are doing what is right for you. At least you are still here and letting out your pain.

Posts: 357 | Registered: Jul 2010
Just Crushed
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Member # 24852
Default  Posted: 5:58 PM, August 18th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lotsa,
so sorry for your pain brother. I don't reply as often as i used to, but I felt compelled to reach out.

I can't say i know the pain of losing a child...i don't. However, i did lose my sister when she was 21 (21 years ago). I remember the pain like it was yesterday. In reality...i know the pain of losing my sister has lessened, but i do think about her quite often.

I say this because my WWs A has eclipsed this pain completely. Almost hard to compare.

I understand death...the pain...the unfairness...the shock. However, betrayal is a different beast. My sister (and your son) did not choose to die...it just happened. On the other hand, our spouses did choose to have an A.

Please don't feel ashamed by comparing your pains. Our experiences are our reference points in life. The comparison does not lessen your love for your son.

peace,
jc


BH
*details in Profile*

Posts: 843 | Registered: Jul 2009
Lotsa
♂ Member
Member # 28078
Default  Posted: 6:33 PM, August 18th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lss Coping OK thanks brother. Just a shitty time of year at the best of times. This year just a little worse than normal.

jc Thanks for your perspective jc. If I am completely honest, the pain from my WS's A has eclipsed the pain of losing our son. Not sure if it's the time that has since elapsed or not, but I do agree that betrayal is a different beast. Thank you for reaching out.


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