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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 5
thyme2go
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Member # 12908
Default  Posted: 2:42 PM, June 29th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I continued to ignore, but WW chose to go outside our marriage. I see what happened very clearly, but I know that I never considered going outside of the M. We both had a responsibility to address the problems we were having, but neither of us did it.

This is more common than one may think. The above statement describes my 24+ year M to my xw. For my part I admit to taking her for granted and I became way too complacent in the M. After all, we were M'ed and did everything together so why would I possibly need to focus on any romance stuff?!?! You can see where that approach got me.

Always work on all of your relationships whether with family, friends or your SO.


It sucks, and it hurts. But it also feels like an opportunity. And that feels a little wrong to me. I feel like I shouldn't be thinking this way. But I feel a little relieved. I feel like I have an opportunity to find a better match for me. A woman who wants the same things I want.


Yep, yep, yep! Right there with you. Learn and move on in your life with full gusto!


-t2g


BH - no longer 48
3 DD's - (27, 24 and 17)
Divorced on 8/6/09

Posts: 9145 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: Eastern Washington
g-bo
♂ New Member
Member # 28913
Default  Posted: 6:06 AM, July 4th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ive already posted this in the DS section, so I hope I don't get in trouble for reposting here,but..

So it's been a little over a week since I found out about my fiance's affair, and just the third day since we agreed to split.

I went on FB this morning and she was on, so I sent her a message wishing her a happy 4th of July (I don't know why, but I did). She responded and we started chatting about nothing imparticular, her daughters impending move to secondary (high) school, how our dog was etc.

Eventually, she said it had been nice to talk to me (without wanting to sound cold) and I replied that she was lucky to have caught me on a good day, as any other day I probably would have had no inclination to chat to her. What she said next really wound me up

"My head is all over the place at the minute, I know I have no right to complain as I've brought this on us both. I keep telling myself it will get better with time, but I'm impatiant and dont want to feel like shit!"

WTF? So I'm supposed to be sorry that she feels bad for screwing someone else behind my back?

I told her not to expect me to rush to her with sympathy, which seemed to annoy her, she typed back 'i wasnt saying it for that reason. Well I can see this conversation has turned!"

It's literally days since my life was torn apart and she wants me to be what? Understanding? Forgiving?

We have a house together and I still intend to have a relationship with her daughter so I can't really afford for things to get nasty (and I doubt it would make matters any better if I unloaded on her)

It just blows my mind that she is seeking some sort of sympathy for causing the break up of the relationship..


Posts: 20 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: UK
wincing_at_light
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Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 1:02 PM, July 4th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

g,

I think you're perfectly entitled to feel as you do about her search for sympathy. The selfishness/idiocy of it is obvious to anyone who's ever been a BS -- where our conundrum typically centers around the question "How fair is it that the person who hurt me is also the one from whom I must seek comfort?"

She's really got the same conundrum, just from a different perspective. You've been her default support system for the duration of your relationship. Your understanding is where she goes for soothing. While she knows on one level that this is unfair to you given her actions, her behaviors haven't caught up with the new relationship reality yet.

And, of course, there's an element of testing there. She's testing you to see if support is something you're still willing to offer. You have, in effect, told her in your chat that she needs to start standing on her own two feet -- and that's a good thing. She shouldn't expect to be able to rely on you for comfort right now, but that's something she's going to have to learn.

One of the most important things I did for myself after D-day was to line up other sources of comfort. I strengthened relationships with friends and co-workers who would sympathize, empathize and help me soothe my hurts. I needed to be vulnerable to someone, to share how deeply I was hurt. Being willing to tell them about my wife's affair was an expression of that vulnerability, and without fail, they stepped up big time, embracing my vulnerability and willingness to share with hugs, advice, or just a good ol' "You're right! She's a monster!"

Spreading my support system out not only freed me from feeling forced to rely on comfort from the person who had victimized me, it also meant that I didn't have to burn anyone out by needing them to be my 24/7 listening ear. Believe me, you're going to want to talk about this shit a lot longer and in a great deal more detail than any one or two other people are going to want to heart about it. My circle of support was able to bear my grief with grace longer because I only asked each member of it to bear a little at a time. Does that make sense?


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
gjs4
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Member # 28971
Default  Posted: 9:01 PM, July 6th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I came to this forum just to see what other folks had doen to save their marriage post WW A. Leter that day I found she had broke or (version of a ) NC a multitiude of times and then when I checked her phone they were sex texting.

My WW is a beautiful, smart (or so i thought), cultured, fun as could be woman...and she is in thsi infatuation stage affair withthe biggest douche bag you could imagine half way around the globe. Another great hookup from facebook land. I have everything going for me...but her.....and I am sure you understand how inadequate that makes me feel let alone how my desires for her are full tilt. Then you throw in her 40lbs lost, her new sexy attire, the fact she flaunts/flashes teases the shit out of me but we havent had sex in months......and i am the one trying to save the marriage after her affair.

This shit can drive you bonkers. Throw in some creative visuals of another man (d bag in my case) hammering away.....

Sorry just needed to dump that out there..... and know that most of you probably "get this"...just ready to move on to a happy day or two....


Posts: 60 | Registered: Jul 2010
SerJR
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Member # 14993
Default  Posted: 9:09 PM, July 6th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

D-bag in most cases g-is.
If you actually look back a page, I posted a little bit about this phenomena. It's pretty common.

Don't blame yourself for this. Her affair says nothing about you - it's all about what is missing within her.

Have you checked out the 180 yet? Have you told her that you won't stay in a marriage in which this behaviour continues?


Me: BH - Happily remarried.
Hope is never lost. It exists within you - it is real. It is not a force in and of itself - it is something that you create with every thought, action, and choice you make. It is a gift that you create for yourself.

Posts: 17093 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Further North than South
Lotsa
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Member # 28078
Default  Posted: 9:29 PM, July 6th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This shit can drive you bonkers.

Amen to that brother... Some of the shit that goes on you could seriously not make up no matter how active an imagination you have.

A belated welcome gjs4... Have read your post in General and you've received good advice and look to be doing as well as can be expected in the circumstances.

The fantasy land that your WW is living in will not last. Whether it's too late by the time she realises it, is another question. Keep focusing on you in the meantime and look after yourself.


Posts: 880 | Registered: Mar 2010
gjs4
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Member # 28971
Default  Posted: 9:29 PM, July 6th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I did not see that- going back in a sec

Started the 180 tactics today..but basically i am trying to also space myself from her for me...she is supposed to move out this week (per my req) and have a lawyer appt friday am to get console on how to to sep.

reading those texts last night stuck in in my ass for the last time....i love her, want this to work, but know she needs to want to deal with things and make that move....and she has shown no sign of it yet.


Posts: 60 | Registered: Jul 2010
SerJR
♂ Member
Member # 14993
Default  Posted: 9:37 PM, July 6th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One thing to consider - if you move quickly on separation papers you may be able to capitalise on her guilt and get a good settlement. With a bit of time, unremorseful WS's tend to play the victim, villainise the BS, and go batshit crazy with the legal aspects. Keep in mind that a separation agreement doesn't necessarily mean that you will divorce (although it is statistically linked to it) - it means that you are protected regardless of the outcome. I would also look into canceling joint credit cards, joint bank accounts, etc.


Me: BH - Happily remarried.
Hope is never lost. It exists within you - it is real. It is not a force in and of itself - it is something that you create with every thought, action, and choice you make. It is a gift that you create for yourself.

Posts: 17093 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Further North than South
gjs4
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Member # 28971
Default  Posted: 9:38 PM, July 6th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Great post SerJR

She sure doesnt sshow any signs of he being in adequate, but he looks like Ronald McDonalds fat brother, has no real job (works pt as tutor) just swindles the panties of married chicks on FB......who the hell knows... (not me)


Posts: 60 | Registered: Jul 2010
awakening1
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Member # 27360
Default  Posted: 9:28 AM, July 8th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So apparently, while the kids were in England with WW and her parents for 2 1/2 weeks, DS (6) essentially figured out that WW and I were separating. First, he asked his grandma how she broke up with his grandpa. Then, he asked his step-grandpa how he broke up with his first wife. Later, when WW joined them for the second half of the stay, he started asking lots of questions about whether WW and I were separating. I was of mixed minds about her having to deliver the message alone. On the one hand, all of this was the result of her affair, so there is some justice her having to do it alone. On the other hand, I wasn't there to hear what she was saying, to chime in with other things I thought, or to console DS and DD (4) when they first found out.

DS apparently said "I've got to find a way to stop this," to which WW emphasized that it wasn't about him or what he could do, and that WW and I would always love him and DD with all our heart. Upon hearing that, I told WW that I understood exactly where he was coming from; I had been trying to do what he wanted to do for 9 months. However, now I am understanding the futility of the endeavor. As my IC noted last night, literally no one with whom I have discussed this has told me otherwise.

WW called me to tell me this this morning. I had just finished an IC session the night before, at which I came to the conclusion that I needed to request that she return the separation agreement. Essentially, I'm tired of not being desired. During their time away, I started to make contact with various women on a fitness singles website, and had lunch with one of them Tuesday. I am once again start to awaken to the opportunities around me.


Me: BH, 43
Her: WW, 41
Kids: 2 (9 and 6)
D-Day: 11/21/09. WW tried to bust up another marriage, but got dumped. OM/St. MF apparently wasn't so saintly after all.
Drafted S papers in 1/10. Filed in 1/12. Court date set for 1/13.

Posts: 79 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Northern VA
SourCherryDrops
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Member # 25883
Default  Posted: 4:01 AM, July 9th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

awakening,

Its great when we finally accept something.

I think i am finally accepting that i no longer want my WW as she is now. I would still try another R with her if she was willing to do the work, but previously although i was saying she needed to do the work, I was still accepting her when she wasnt.

I think its great that you finally seem to have accepted the futility of what you were trying to do previously.

If like me youd still consider R, it would pay now to think about what conditions would need to be meet for you to re-engage, IMHO deciding on thing like this in advancce eases that decision making process should you ever be faced with it.

There are a lot of people here on SI that advocate not seeing anyone else while still married. That you should wait until Divorced. I have a different opinion. To me there are two parts to the M, the love relationship, and the legal one. Seperation for me means the end of the Love Relationship, (I mean here a seperation heading towards D, one where one or more partners have said that they do not want to be with their spouse ever again). the D when it comes just finishes off the legal relationship. In those circumstances i think its perfectly acceptable for both spouses to engage in new relationships.

Id suggest keeping it light though, have fun, but dont get sucked into a new serious relationship.


Me BS 37, Her STBX 34, 1*ONS, 1*EA 1*PA/EA, 2*PA
Heading for D after 9 mths of R

Posts: 1468 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Europe
awakening1
♂ Member
Member # 27360
Default  Posted: 11:03 AM, July 9th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks, SCD

There are a lot of people here on SI that advocate not seeing anyone else while still married. That you should wait until Divorced. I have a different opinion. To me there are two parts to the M, the love relationship, and the legal one. Seperation for me means the end of the Love Relationship, (I mean here a seperation heading towards D, one where one or more partners have said that they do not want to be with their spouse ever again). the D when it comes just finishes off the legal relationship. In those circumstances i think its perfectly acceptable for both spouses to engage in new relationships.

One of the clauses in our draft SA is the ability to "live as single." I have made it clear to WW that her status as a monogamous infidel has been the most painful, ongoing part of her A. I told her that I am starving for female attention. I recognize that, in my starving state, I might act too rashly before some women and that could work against my own interests. Still, my IC, who advised 5 months ago that getting physical with any woman would be a red flag, now says I'm in a much better mental place to pursue my options.

Id suggest keeping it light though, have fun, but dont get sucked into a new serious relationship.

This is indeed my goal. I'd like to date around widely for a bit to see what all is out there.

If like me youd still consider R, it would pay now to think about what conditions would need to be meet for you to re-engage, IMHO deciding on thing like this in advancce eases that decision making process should you ever be faced with it.

The main condition is that she opens herself to me again both physically and emotionally. She has told her family that she cannot do so physically. I have my serious doubts that she will ever get there.


Me: BH, 43
Her: WW, 41
Kids: 2 (9 and 6)
D-Day: 11/21/09. WW tried to bust up another marriage, but got dumped. OM/St. MF apparently wasn't so saintly after all.
Drafted S papers in 1/10. Filed in 1/12. Court date set for 1/13.

Posts: 79 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Northern VA
jasper
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Member # 28168
Default  Posted: 9:34 PM, July 11th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Glad to see this being discussed.
There are a lot of people here on SI that advocate not seeing anyone else while still married. That you should wait until Divorced. I have a different opinion. To me there are two parts to the M, the love relationship, and the legal one. Seperation for me means the end of the Love Relationship, (I mean here a seperation heading towards D, one where one or more partners have said that they do not want to be with their spouse ever again). the D when it comes just finishes off the legal relationship. In those circumstances i think its perfectly acceptable for both spouses to engage in new relationships.

I'm seeing what's out there. At first, I felt like I had done something wrong. I don't feel that way anymore. There's really no legal issue for me to be concerned with, and we're definitely not going to be reconciling, so there's no harm.

My relationship with WW is purely business-based now, and I see no reason why I should hold off until it is officially and legally over.

I'll wait a while before I entertain anything emotional. I know I'm not ready for that yet.


Posts: 696 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: New York
wincing_at_light
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Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 9:44 PM, July 11th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As far as I'm concerned, people are eligible to start dating as soon as one spouse moves out with the intention to D.

I actually feel like it's okay as soon as there's "intent to divorce" followed by some concrete action (filing, etc.), but cohabiting while dating other people just seems creepy to me, especially if there are kids* in the mix.


[*] Kids of the marriage, I mean. If either party is dating kids, cohabiting or not, you've got bigger problems than "when should I start dating?" to worry about.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
SourCherryDrops
♂ Member
Member # 25883
Default  Posted: 6:01 AM, July 12th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

i know i shouldnt laugh at that WAL but... ah hell its un pc, but yeah...its good to remember that no matter how f'd up and shity things are they could actually be worse....

I just wouldnt date while co-habiting, that would be altogether too weird.

But even after i move out i do not really feel like i want to date at the moment. Sure it would by phsically gratifying to jump in the sack with someone new for the first time in 15 years, but its all the other stuff id still have to deal with.

At the moment im leaning towards just taking my time, not actively looking for a new partner, just focus on finding myself again, perhapse doing some of the outdoorsy activities that i havent been able to do in recent years.

ofcourse, well see if that attitude doesnt change after a few more months of drought.


Me BS 37, Her STBX 34, 1*ONS, 1*EA 1*PA/EA, 2*PA
Heading for D after 9 mths of R

Posts: 1468 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Europe
lostcause111
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Member # 19109
Default  Posted: 9:51 AM, July 13th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If you force search you will find some wacky wounded soul.

The general advice I give to all D or not limbo land or whatever is take care of you.

I am with W. Not happy with relationship but I am happy and do much more stuff and am much more social.

I could easily get a date with somebody who shares a similar interest to me but their is no way in hell I would do that with kids at home.

WTF would I even say if one of the kids answer the phone and its a woman for me?

The minute their is intent to D all bets are off but really the best bet is go with the flow and develop a new life and things will happen.


Posts: 934 | Registered: Apr 2008
SourCherryDrops
♂ Member
Member # 25883
Default  Posted: 6:22 AM, July 14th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ive been having a really shitty last couple of days...

Ive been 180ing my STBXW for the last few weeks, we are more or less officially seperated but are still co-habiting untill i move into my apptmt at the start of august.

The 180 was difficult at the begining because she was still wanting to chat about stuff... but i think she now has caught on that i dont want to engage in any small talk.

We actually dont see much of each other at the moment. a few minutes here and hour there... if she is not working then after the kids are in bed she buggers off to a friends place or her mums.

What i am really struggling with is the unanswered questions i have about her sudden decision to seperate, why she doesnt even want to consider trying to repair the M during or after a period of Seperation.

where i live we have a 1 year minimum cooling off period. so we wont be able to get a D for another year ...

Ive been crying myself to sleep pretty much every night for the last few weeks, the pain of knowing that i will miss out on so much of my kids future, that they will have to deal with living in a borken home... its really tormenting me, and i dont even know why, i cannot understand what she is thinking.

only 3 days before she announced her desire to S we were discussing future holiday plans, she was lying cradled in my arms and telling me how she loved that....

I really want to ask her why ive told her previously that i would like to talk about it, but she just brushes it off, not now....

Sometimes i wish this was all some horrendous nightmare and that i could wake up and everything would be ok again in the mornings light.... but i know thats a fools wish.

on the drive home from work yesterday i had resolved to ask her to atleast see if she would talk about it. but then when i got home i couldnt do anything except sit in my bedroom with my head in my hands...


Me BS 37, Her STBX 34, 1*ONS, 1*EA 1*PA/EA, 2*PA
Heading for D after 9 mths of R

Posts: 1468 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Europe
awakening1
♂ Member
Member # 27360
Default  Posted: 9:53 AM, July 14th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ive been crying myself to sleep pretty much every night for the last few weeks, the pain of knowing that i will miss out on so much of my kids future, that they will have to deal with living in a borken home... its really tormenting me, and i dont even know why, i cannot understand what she is thinking.

only 3 days before she announced her desire to S we were discussing future holiday plans, she was lying cradled in my arms and telling me how she loved that....

I really want to ask her why ive told her previously that i would like to talk about it, but she just brushes it off, not now....

Sometimes i wish this was all some horrendous nightmare and that i could wake up and everything would be ok again in the mornings light.... but i know thats a fools wish.

on the drive home from work yesterday i had resolved to ask her to atleast see if she would talk about it. but then when i got home i couldnt do anything except sit in my bedroom with my head in my hands...

As the title of the board hints, SCD, I Can Relate. My WW has called a few times the last few days to discuss logistical details about shuffling the kids from our house, where I'm staying, to her dad's 3 miles away, where she has been watching the dog. I have been brusque and curt in our discussions, focusing mainly on what we need to address logistically, but also periodically noting that I look forward to having a substantive discussion with her. Not sure when that will occur. I haven't pressed further on getting her to turn over the Separation Agreement after my 7/8/10 request. We'll see what she has to say when we finally talk.

I have enjoyed spending time with the kiddos ... they move back in with her today through Saturday. I haven't been as focused on missing out on things in the kids' future as I have been on the damage we are doing to the kids right now. DS is starting to get oddly quiet, and to withdraw. Our nanny briefly raised the separation with him yesterday, and he got very sad and on the verge of tears. She said that DD saw him sad and tried to do things to cheer him up. We have raised kids who have been very free expressing their emotion in constructive ways. I fear that this is more than they can be expected to handle at this age ... maybe it's true of all kids at any age. I raised this to WW last night briefly, and she first tried to brush it off. I persisted though, noting that this sort of behaviour is noted in the Sandcastles and other books about the effect of separation and divorce on kids, and she replied that maybe we should be ready to find a counselor for DS if necessary. Not the response I wanted to hear, but I recognize that can't make her fly straight ... she's on her own journey.


Me: BH, 43
Her: WW, 41
Kids: 2 (9 and 6)
D-Day: 11/21/09. WW tried to bust up another marriage, but got dumped. OM/St. MF apparently wasn't so saintly after all.
Drafted S papers in 1/10. Filed in 1/12. Court date set for 1/13.

Posts: 79 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Northern VA
drfeelgood
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Member # 28772
Default  Posted: 10:05 AM, July 14th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hi sourcherrydrops. i can relate to what you are saying and can understand your pain. i am just coming up to 8 weeks since d day and for me the only answer was to withdraw completely from her for the sake of my own sanity. i like you love and miss my ww terribly and it vicious not to be close to the kids. there is no hope for me now as far as r is concerned and im not sure i could anyway but i would just like you to know that you are in my thoughts..........we will get through this though it is going to be hard. god bless mate.


Me: 51 yrs.
ww: 45 yrs.
married 16 years.
currently trying hard to forgive..

Posts: 126 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: england, uk
SourCherryDrops
♂ Member
Member # 25883
Default  Posted: 2:51 AM, July 15th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

maybve it was me posting in here, but last night i finally managed to get my wife to talk to me for 40 minutes or so...

You can probably all guess the outcome.

Im still not any closer to really understanding why. Yes i asked her, and yes she gave me an answer, but it doesnt really tell me anything.

Apparently its all too much for her. when asked what, its everything.

When i asked why she gave me no warning she said yes i did, back in feb i told you it was all too much. that was when i caught her deleting texts after she promised not to delete anything, and we had a long discussion about honesty and transperancy and eventually came to an agreement about how to handle texts whose content she wanted to keep confidential (we aggreed that i could see the sender or recipient but wouldnt read the text itself)

to me what happened 4-5 months ago is water under the bridge, its wether this week is better than last week...

She says that she feels that i am bitter, that i am really angry.... um yeah, i asked her to read up about infidelity and the effect it has on people, ive even explained to her that its likely that i will go through an angry phase. But really, i havent been overtly angry i actually though that i would be a lot more angry than i was feeling.

I asked whether it was a slow build up, no apparently it was a spur of the moment decision after the last argument.

finally i asked if she was happy with her decision, if she felt it was the best decision. the answer... 'Yes, I think its the best decision for me at the moment'

hmmm i really wish i was able to make the best decision for just me so easily... my problem seems to be that i keep factoring in the best interests of the other people affected by my decisions... my kids for instance.... heck even her.

Still i did manage to get a few things off my chest that i wanted to say, i told her that i think she is unhappy and that she keeps seeking external sources of happiness, but unless she fixes the unhappiness in her core then theses external things never keep her happy for long, they need to be consistently replaced.

I told her how i feel, that i felt that i had worked my arse off, given her massive amounts of leaway, how i had come so far on my side of the path to R...

Meh.... i still went to bed and cried myself to sleep, no idea how she sleept.


Me BS 37, Her STBX 34, 1*ONS, 1*EA 1*PA/EA, 2*PA
Heading for D after 9 mths of R

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