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User Topic: Long Term Affair X V I I
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 11:58 AM, April 19th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

forgivenotforget... Well I agree with all your post and I’m with ya… I was never into music as much as today… I love both those song you posted.. 1985 took me back too…

Allgood..

he said some things are none of my business.
I’m sorry to say but that is bull shit… LOL… It takes a while to think before speak using the “feel” method of language.. lol.. It works though. I am so much more a better man then I was… I tell people my feelings and let them decide what they want to do… Keep trying. My bet is that your H loves you deeply and does not want to hurt you anymore. So if you can tell him how you feel, he will change and do things that make you feel better… It is working for myself and my W…

Ie.. When you call me during the day, I feel safe, in comfort… He sweety, when you take the kids for the day and let me shop, I feel a deep happiness… etc…


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 12:27 PM, April 19th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tryn said about forgiveness "pray for them" Maybe that's the very first step towards getting your mind right to forgive. They've wronged you, but they are people in great need. It is an act of charity to pray for them. And over time it will be of benefit to you.

Now, if you're not a person of faith, you're not exactly going to pray for someone -- but you can simply say to yourself whenever they cross your mind "X is obviously a messed up person, I hope he/she finds the strength one day to recover from whatever caused that in their life."

What I've realized about forgiveness is that it's separate from reconciliation. And that you must "forget" as fully as possible as well. Not to the extent that you're a complete fool, but in the sense that you consider the past action being forgiven no longer relevant to the present or to your own personal future.

The other reason I discovered I need to forgive when its appropriate is that the debt cannot be repaid. It's like spiritual bankruptcy. Nothing my WH says or does will ever make up for his betrayal -- so at the end of the day all that can be done is for me to forgive him and allow him to start with a clean slate. There is no way to ever balance the injustice.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 1:01 PM, April 19th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

allgood: i am also sorry that you are having a bad day...i can understand the desire to squash down those feelings...but i have to say that it really is not conducive sometimes to squash but rather release...

i think it is sometimes so difficult to try and figure out when we are supposed to release it all and/or take our minds somewhere else....

and i would think that would depend on what it is you need to express or not express...if it is a trigger, or an act of some kind or lack thereof....

for me personally i like to express it out loud, at least to myself...(many wil see me actually talk to myself ...and worse i answer myself ) and then let it go....kind of covers the bases...

express and release....

i also know how fustrating it is trying to "r" with someone who just doesn't "get it"...and getting it is what we need for them to do...it gives us a sense of security that if they get it, it won't not only be repeated but they will have full knowledge of what their behavior has done..

tryn: i am still going to disagree...it takes more then "acting" to truly forgive..one must really let it go...no resentments, no anger, no residual anything....and i agree with the list of what it is not...but in order to "act" the part of the forgiver you need to feel it...or that is all it is "an act"...which makes it not real and true...


allgood: your location sounds close to me too...yay....i feel a g2g coming on...we need to pm our calendars...and i think you will probably have the busiest schedule, so check yours and let me know what ya got....and i am open to breakfast, lunch, dinner...or even just a cup of tea...and i am also open to hosting...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 2:57 PM, April 19th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

m3:

And that you must "forget" as fully as possible as well. Not to the extent that you're a complete fool, but in the sense that you consider the past action being forgiven no longer relevant to the present or to your own personal future.

i disagree with the term "forget" on this one, while i do agree that it needs to be put behind you, it should not be forgotten but rather utilized as a place that you have travelled, and as a road that need not taken again...another words...remember where you have been to appreciate where you are...never forgetting but never dwelling...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 4:04 PM, April 19th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have not been here for a few days and there was so much to catch up on. I think it was UKgirl that said "this is such a chatty fourm." Boy she was right. It seems like there were a million words written the past three days here. I need to go back and read all that again.

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 4:08 PM, April 19th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I too want to chime in to say that I have been reading all of the inspiring and thought provoking posts ...but, I just got home from work... am too exhausted to comment intelligently....
Unfortunately, did have a not so good conversation with my H yesterday (not A related...more about his behavior in the marriage in the past)...so, a lot of silent gloomy behavior going on here today...

But.... getting together for dinner at 'Beccos' in NYC caught my eye!
I'm up for a meet up!
just let me know when....and where...!!!


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 10:22 PM, April 19th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree with Dip, you leave you guys for one minute and you've written pages!!!

But that's a good sign. I totally agree with Miracle about this site and forum and wonderful people. The horrendous LTA has wounded us all so very deeply to our cores and all of you great people have helped me survive. I believe this site saved my life. Literally. The responses from people who really cared and really understood helped me go on an to start interacting with people in RL.

Miracle, it's ok to let some people know in RL. I had a "gut" feeling to let my neighbor know. I knew her more as the mother of my son's friend. But I knew she had been through a lot herself. She's been divorced once and widowed twice and her boyfriend of 3 years suddenly died. I was talking to her one day right after a fight with WH and she asked me what was wrong and my gut said "tell her". It was the best thing I've ever done. She has been such a great support to me and my kids, and I gained a great friend. I think it was Helen Keller who said, "Sometimes we look so much at the door that was closed, we fail to see the door that is opened" (not an exact quote)

Ahhh...forgiveness. I too have always read it was "healthy" and beneficial for one to forgive.

I think the problem is that we tend to think of it as an action that we just do, like walk, talk, work, etc.

It isn't an action. It is the conclusion of a long, hard process that may take many years.

I agree, to start the journey, or allow ourselves to start the journey is the decision, "Someday I may or will be able to forgive..."

It's the decision to be open to it. It's also a decision to think, "I'll NEVER forgive them...." I believe the latter decision can make one become resentful and harbor ill feelings that can eventually hurt us and does not hurt the person who made the offense.

I think it is more beneficial to "COME TO TERMS" with what happened. It is more than mere acceptance that the LTA occurred. It also has to do with forgiving ourselves for anything we might feel guilty about, TRULY understanding "IT'S NOT OUR FAULT", although we may have contributed to the marital problems.

It's like coming to a peace inside and saying, ok, it happened. I was hurt. But I'm okay now. I can go on.

Then, maybe, we can start to understand what happened a little and begin to really FEEL in our hearts that they didn't do it to hurt us purposely, they didn't think at all. We may start to understand them a little. And perhaps, then we might start to feel forgiveness.

I'm saying this from the perspective of my first xWH who left over 22 years ago. He never gave me reasons, it was an exit affair, and he left immediately.

It took me probably almost 10 years of reflection, thought and understanding to forgive him in my heart. This process was on again off again. I would "put it away" and then take it out sometimes or a trigger would bring it out. I never said it to him. He's remarried and I don't think it would do any good to tell him at this point.

BUT and this is a big BUT, if we as BS's still don't feel secure, we still feel like it is happening or may still happen, it is very hard to even begin the process. How can it begin, if we still feel it is happening, or may still happen? I guess, in my case, xWH was gone, never even looked back, so in a stupid way I didn't have to worry about what he was feeling or doing, I knew already. He couldn't do it again, he was gone.

I forgot who said it (forgive me!) But she said that all we want is to know and feel that WS loves us, really loves us and wants just us!!

That is the problem to R, I think. So many of the WS's don't know how to show it, or give us the feeling of security, or are just afraid to do it.

{{{{Tribe}}}}

[This message edited by honesttoafault at 10:29 PM, April 19th (Monday)]


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 10:39 PM, April 19th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NJgal: You said something about how you still question your decision to R to this day.

My advice? Don't question your decision. I honestly feel that the decision to TRY and R is a good one with a willing S.

You made a decision to R, but that doesn't mean it's written in stone. I fully believe with all my heart that if the two parties have tried their best, gave their all and then some more and it's not working for one reason or another, then if they part, they can do it with more respect for themselves and each other.

Speaking from experience, divorce is extremely hard. It's hard financially, emotionally and spiritually deep inside.

Ann Landers used to give this advice: "Are you better off with him or without him?"

Not easily answered I know.

But NJgal, don't do what I've spent and wasted so much of my life with: "what I should have done, or what I could have done."

Try to have faith in yourself that you made the best decision you could have made for yourself at the time with the circumstances and with HOW YOU WERE FEELING AT THE TIME.

Allgood: I hope you are feeling better. Come here and vent! We can take it


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 5:28 AM, April 20th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

all the wonderful people here at si, and especially here on the lta board, and all the friends that have shown me all this support irl have touched me so deeply there are no words that do this feeling justice...the uplift i feel is incredible.
This place made me realise (15mths post d-day) that I was not alone and I was not mad! I also learned to deal with things in a different way. And that things do not have to go back to how they were before and I do not have to believe that crap about “your marriage can be better than before because of the affair”. WTF, there was nothing wrong with it before! Thank you SI and the LTA forum!

If I am able to get back to NY, we're meeting at Becco's
I’ll be on the next plane then…………………
FWH is STILL in Chicago with no idea when he can get home.

Tryn’, I will read and try to commit to your ideas on forgiveness. If it doesn’t happen for me, I won’t let it destroy me. If I can find acceptance (something from way back when we were in MC) that that is a good alternative. To be able to box it up and put it away somewhere in the far reaches of the attic. It will always be there, but I won’t have to look at it all the time. The problem with forgiveness is how to forgive someone who doesn’t seem to think it should be a problem. That he is here, now, that is what matters (well, obviously he’s still in Chicago, but ykwim), that he realised he wronged me, that he is sorry and remorseful for the pain he has caused, but acknowledges that it was going to happen. It was a gimme. Part of him knows it was wrong, but he dresses it up and justifies it by saying it was unfinished dialogue. And that there would have been nothing I could have done to stop it. Which is why I need to believe in this person who is currently by my side and NOT the person I married. He can go hang, as far as I’m concerned. In fact, I hope he has.

I see people in this life who trample on and climb over the bodies of others to get what they want. And mostly, they seem to be the ones who DO have it all. The most ruthless never seem to get their comeuppance. But most of us need a sense of belonging, of fairness, of compassion, of knowing we would never deliberately harm someone else. Of doing as you would be done by. WH isolated himself which meant he lost all caring about anything or anyone else. There was nothing broken about him, it was pure selfishness to reconnect with the ex-gf AND stay with me while he made up his mind. What he did was so breathtakingly destructive and cruel and he KNEW it would be, that I do not see forgiveness as an option.

I will try to forgive myself first. Him? Really, I don’t think I can do it. Accept? I’m working towards it. The idea is to stop reliving the pain and trauma and just accept. And then perhaps personalise a style of forgiveness that works for me.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 5:34 AM, April 20th (Tuesday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 5:30 AM, April 20th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And you shouldn't say about praying for someone - it just made me think of this!

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=507180504&blogId=521877808


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 6:35 AM, April 20th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well Ladies,

This is what my book says… and I agree…

I will never “forget” what has happened to me. There will always be this place in my brain that will remind me of that pain. I will never approve of what she did to me, there is no excusing what she did to me, there is no justification for what has happened to me, and yet I pardon my wife (yep M3). I told her I wanted to R, I am R’ing.. I know my wife does not deny what she did, we are not pretending it did not happen, and I am not forgetting it. I don’t pretend I am not hurt. I take what happened very seriously.

What I am doing is forgiving… and that is I acknowledge I have be very wrong and I forgive her even though it happened. I am working hard to never bring it up again…EVER. I will let her save face. I am not going to keep a record. I am not telling anyone what she did to hurt me. I am being merciful and I am not seeking justice. I am showing my W grace and gentleness. I want my wife to not feel guilty any more. I want my wife to forgive herself. I don’t want her to be afraid of me. I will protect her from her greatest fear. I want to be with my wife forever. She has said the same for me.

And… as Iwant says.. Oh that Inner condition! In that heart.. When there is bitterness, will my mouth speak? Is there an absence of bitterness in my brain, my mind, my dreams… (well some linger maybe.. LOL) At this point in time, I cannot even remember a day when I last had it? Frustration over thinking about it…. Maybe it was my 25th anniversary trigger last month?? I have not had anger over her A in a long time. Zero “residual” anything... Humm??? I still think about it everyday in some way… Not in hurt everyday though… is that residual? The folks at Retrouvaille say I have an obligation to help others that are following my path.. Is that residual? Teaching others how to heal their brain after infidelity?

I know this… doing those thing above are choices…not feeling. If you don’t want to do them… Don’t. I’ll tell you this… if you don’t do those things, you are not reconciling in the purest sense…

UK… That song is funny.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 7:44 AM, April 20th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow, I've read everyone's posts and there is so much wisdom, compassion, support and just genuine caring. You have all made me feel like I am not alone in this.

tryn - I am not at a point to even try to forgive. Maybe one day, but today isn't it. You are truly a wonderful person and I know your W is one lucky girl.

I am not a deeply religious person but I do have faith. Right after dday, take2, sent me a gratitude rock. I placed the rock and my rosary beads in my purse and they have been there ever since. I do have lots to be grateful for even if today doesn't feel like one of those days.

I had a horrific day yesterday. I went to the MC yesterday alone and took everyone's advice and just put everything out on the table. When I was finished the MC said he finally gets it. He said my H has many issues and he can understand if I leave. He said he didn't think it was a good idea for me to leave but maybe that is what H needs, a wake up call because MC feels he "doesn't get it" and has not put enough effort into trying to R. I told MC that H need IC and if I stopped coming to see MC would he take my husband on as IC? He said he could help my H, but the question is, will H go to IC? I felt as though finally MC understood me.

And then last night, I started a conversation with H. I asked him to please talk to me and let me know what he was feeling. It took 2 hours before he spoke. At first he said he felt as though he was defeated and that why try, nothing he said, or did was going to help. Yet, he too was not ready to end the M. He said he feels horrible inside, he knows he did a horrible thing to his family and he believes that everyone is looking at him as though he is some kind of monster. He feels he has lost his family, his friends and he has nobody, not even me. I went to go hug him and he pushed me away. About 1/2 hour later I went back to hug him again and he hugged me back. It was so awkward. But, we both decided that we would give it one last shot. If one of us feels we can't do it, we will end it and move on.

So the hard work begins. I'm going to talk to him about IC because without that and him looking within himself to see what is broken, this will not work. I cannot live with this broken man the way he is. I believe there are a lot of FOO issues. On top of all of this, H is now having some serious health issues and I'm wondering if all of this stress if contributing.

So I will now drag myself to work today and hopefully have a productive day because yesterday was a complete wash. I'm just so sick inside.

Have a good day all you fine people. Sorry I can't be of more help to you but I'm not even able to help myself at this point. Hope you understand.

((((tribe))))


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 7:57 AM, April 20th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I pardon my wife
Hmm. Interesting word to use. Kind of legal and old fashioned in one go. A little emotionally detached, perhaps. I think I can do that. Pardon could come before forgiveness, which is something more emotional and complete.

I want my wife to forgive herself.
That is what I would like my H to do. Except he’s either done it or doesn’t think it applies to his situation. But I would have like to have felt he was troubled in that respect. To have seen him struggling with forgiving himself and have to process it in the same way I was expected to. But he didn’t. But he wants ME to forgive him. Lopsided, I think.

In the days before I found the SI refuge, I found this in 12 Steps to Forgiveness

Yes, the person who wronged us should pay for the wrong they have committed. They OWE us something. The problem is, there is no price high enough that would pay for this injustice. So we make a decision to cancel their debt anyway. It’s like bankruptcy laws.
In the old days, if you borrowed money and couldn’t repay it, you were thrown into debtor’s prison. Some people came along and said, “Hey, wait a minute. This isn’t fair. Just because someone really screwed up once and can’t repay their debt doesn’t mean they are a bad person and will never be able to get it right in the future. Let’s cancel all their debts, give them a second chance and hope they have learned a lesson from their experience. That’s what bankruptcy is.

Now when you go bankrupt, they don’t just let you start over as if nothing happened. You have no credit at all. You can’t borrow a dime. You have to start building from 0. And you have to be accountable for all your actions, spending (“time” if you’ve had an affair). You have to send in a monthly report of your income and your expenditures to the trustee, and show that you are managing your money well, and paying your bills for a period of time before they discharge you.

Bankruptcy laws are a beautiful thing. Giving people a second chance is much better than forcing them to live in prison for the rest of their lives, and most people go on to live productive lives after bankruptcy. In the same way many couples go on to live monogamous marriages after an affair.

I guess if you compare the high and the fixes of an affair, the headiness and limerence and maybe even the sense of entitlement with someone who can’t stop spending even though they know they don’t have the money. The banks and the credit card companies keep on giving saying “Go on, you deserve this” and then “Well, you’ve spent so much already, what’s a few quid more?” you could tally that to a LTA.

There is no way our WS can pay the debt. You have to either write it off and start over or walk away and invest in someone else. I don’t want to do that. Believe it or not, I do actually like my FWH!! He’s good fun, tactile, playful, never denies me anything. He appears to love me (with that proviso ‘for now’).

My greatest fear when I was trying to decide whether to stay or to leave was that our family would never be the same. Every special holiday, occasion, or just the every day living would be altered and altered in a way that I knew would make me very unhappy. I didn't want to have my children torn between Mom and Dad, who gets to come on Christmas, who gets to come on the grandbabies' birthdays, that kind of thing. It was a huge factor in my decision.
I also have to admit that I knew my H wouldn't take long in finding my replacement, and I knew I'd hate to see him with another woman, even if I was with another man (which I couldn't even begin to imagine).
I think when we have so much time and so many memories tied in with this person it becomes, at least for me, almost impossible to imagine a future without him. That might sound pathetic to some but I've invested the greater portion of my life into this man and my marriage and he would have to have continued to be a bastard, showing no remorse or willingness to change, in order for me to want to give up on us.
FNF has said it EXACTLY. (Thanks )


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 9:21 AM, April 20th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He appears to love me (with that proviso ‘for now’).

I was thinking about this on my commute this morning. So cyuically, I was thinking I better get a better job and start working my a$$ off. With 4 children to take care of, that is not something to take lightly. I figure, my marriage has 3 years left in it at best. It's not that I'm not trying to R or that I'll ever divorce my WH (I guess I'm like miracle and I'd rather keep the family together even if R doesn't work) but you know, my
WH will probably make partner in 2 years and then I'm sure he'll trade me in for a younger model. Isn't that what the successful cheating men always do? I now realize he wasn't "just kidding" when I was 29 and he kept saying I only had "one good year left." Sigh.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, April 20th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

first off ukgirl that song is hilarious.. ...loved it

ok down to business

dip: do you have your reading glasses?..

njgal:

Unfortunately, did have a not so good conversation with my H yesterday (not A related...more about his behavior in the marriage in the past)...so, a lot of silent gloomy behavior going on here today...

it sometimes seems unfair that to add to dealing with the infidelity, you still have to address all that was wrong before you knew...but it really is a good thing you know...even if having the conversations is uncomfy...they are necessary to put your marriage on the right track..

honest:

i am happy for you that you made a irl connection...it really helps..

think it was Helen Keller who said, "Sometimes we look so much at the door that was closed, we fail to see the door that is opened" (not an exact quote)

love this...and more importantly need to remind myself of it every now and again..

Ann Landers used to give this advice: "Are you better off with him or without him?"

i don't think this is a fair quesstion until well into "r"...because it cannot be answered until the offender does the work...however if the offender refuses to do the work then that is your answer..


ukgirl:

do you think that your h just refuses to see his action for what they were because he just can't face them, can't acknowledge what his actions have done to you....most people have a problem with facing themselves when they have hurt someone so deeply...and maybe he is just dealing with it all matter of factly because he can't deal with it any other way...

but i like that you are both looking at him for the man he is now and not then...and he keeps telling you that it couldn't be stopped because that may be his way of taking full responsibility for what he did....taking on all the blame and making sure none of it falls back anywhere else especially you...

and tell me again why you have to forgive yourself...

i just don't get this, so many here feel this guilt of what they could have done differently like there was something they should have or could have done...and this to me is so ludicrous...there is nothing that could have or should have been done differently on any of our parts...there is no justification and taking on any of the blame is giving justification...


Yes, the person who wronged us should pay for the wrong they have committed. They OWE us something. The problem is, there is no price high enough that would pay for this injustice. So we make a decision to cancel their debt anyway. It’s like bankruptcy laws.
In the old days, if you borrowed money and couldn’t repay it, you were thrown into debtor’s prison. Some people came along and said, “Hey, wait a minute. This isn’t fair. Just because someone really screwed up once and can’t repay their debt doesn’t mean they are a bad person and will never be able to get it right in the future. Let’s cancel all their debts, give them a second chance and hope they have learned a lesson from their experience. That’s what bankruptcy is.
Now when you go bankrupt, they don’t just let you start over as if nothing happened. You have no credit at all. You can’t borrow a dime. You have to start building from 0. And you have to be accountable for all your actions, spending (“time” if you’ve had an affair). You have to send in a monthly report of your income and your expenditures to the trustee, and show that you are managing your money well, and paying your bills for a period of time before they discharge you.

Bankruptcy laws are a beautiful thing. Giving people a second chance is much better than forcing them to live in prison for the rest of their lives, and most people go on to live productive lives after bankruptcy. In the same way many couples go on to live monogamous marriages after an affair.

i love love love this analogy...


tryn: you are truly a unique man, a unique individual...you are extraordinary in the way you "choose" to love your wife...and that is wonderful, because it is working for both of you...i do worry a bit about you swallowing your pain, your fustrations, your triggers instead of sharing with the one who can help the most...your wife...and alas that is where resentments may build...


nofun:


I had a horrific day yesterday. I went to the MC yesterday alone and took everyone's advice and just put everything out on the table. When I was finished the MC said he finally gets it. He said my H has many issues and he can understand if I leave. He said he didn't think it was a good idea for me to leave but maybe that is what H needs, a wake up call because MC feels he "doesn't get it" and has not put enough effort into trying to R. I told MC that H need IC and if I stopped coming to see MC would he take my husband on as IC? He said he could help my H, but the question is, will H go to IC? I felt as though finally MC understood me.


this is not a horrific day, painful but oh so produtive and necessary....i believe your "c" has redeemed himself...and i did what you did too, stepped back from the mc so that my ws can use him for his ic....because this not only saves time, but gives the "c" your perspective, he knows where you are coming from, which will help him when he dealing with you ws....it won't be so one-sided and one-dimensinal when the issues are about you and your marriage....

the issues of his foo are another matter...and he will need to get to the bottom of those to fix what is truly broken within him...

And then last night, I started a conversation with H. I asked him to please talk to me and let me know what he was feeling. It took 2 hours before he spoke. At first he said he felt as though he was defeated and that why try, nothing he said, or did was going to help. Yet, he too was not ready to end the M. He said he feels horrible inside, he knows he did a horrible thing to his family and he believes that everyone is looking at him as though he is some kind of monster. He feels he has lost his family, his friends and he has nobody, not even me. I went to go hug him and he pushed me away. About 1/2 hour later I went back to hug him again and he hugged me back. It was so awkward. But, we both decided that we would give it one last shot. If one of us feels we can't do it, we will end it and move on.

i am so proud of you, to go back after being rejected for that hug in huge...and its wonderful...believe it or not this conversation is also good...productive...and as painful as it was it was a really really good thing for you...

you now know where you stand, where he stands, that this mc understands you and him and this is wonderful nofun....and yes i know your nerves must have been shot...and i am sure you were exhausted..this process of healing, of recovery, of surviving can be long arduous and hurtful..but necessary..


(((((tribe))))

and ukgirl:

I’ll be on the next plane then…………………

does this mean i have it in writing??


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 9:32 AM, April 20th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

m3:

I was thinking I better get a better job and start working my a$$ off. With 4 children to take care of, that is not something to take lightly. I figure, my marriage has 3 years left in it at best.

why would you feel this? did something prompt this?...

.and btw your children are young enough for you to start anew...puberty is where is gets dicey...if my kids were little i wouldn't hesitate to start anew...but at these ages that they are now, i cannot in good conscience do that to them, it will change who they are at a very tender age where the decisions and choices they make are precarious at best...especially when they feel the need to lash out, or when they are hurt and/or angry.....

had i learned about all this years ago, i wouldn't have blinked an eye, especially since my marriage was not a good one, and the only thing i held onto was destroyed long before i ever knew it was detroyed, when in fact it never really was...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 12:19 PM, April 20th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dinner at Beccos! When is this? I can't wait!

Forgiveness, justice, pardon, acceptance. This has been a pretty good discussion about all that. What m3 said about there being no way to pay this debt is correct. Spiritual bankruptcy, is a great description. I read this on another thread the other day. This is not the exact quote but close. "For me there is no balancing of the scales. Unfortunatly for somethings in life there is no restitution." This is similar to what m3 said just put a little differently. We all expect payback when we get wronged or see someone wronged. It is hard to accept that for this there is no payback.

I did like the comparison UKgirl posted about the bankruptcy laws. That was good.

Everybody here does deserve a pat on the back. The support and help here is just unreal.

Honest should get special recoginition. She said "I agree with Dip." That is awesome, and something I very rarely hear.

miracle.

How do you know I wear reading glasses? Do you have a spycam?

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 12:46 PM, April 20th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

dip: would you b able to make a ny dinner, or are you just playin us?

How do you know I wear reading glasses? Do you have a spycam?

i cannot tell my secrets..

Unfortunatly for somethings in life there is no restitution."

this struck a chord with me...last nite trying to talk to pfm about keeping quiet with certain things he says which fustrate me and anger me...like when he says he loves me, (dont' want to hear that, it means nothing, he loved "her" more..and that he doesn't know the meaning of the word....) and he is contantly saying that i'm sexy, in front of my kids no less...again not something i want to hear so i told him to button it...he shot back that he want to fight for "us" and that he wants to make it up to me...i replied that it is not possible to rectify what he did, not at all...he still doesn't get it...but i guess there is no surprise there..


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 1:38 PM, April 20th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

miracle.

Well I guess I could make it. It would only be a 2 or 3 day drive. The hard part would be explaining this to my W. "I going to NY to have dinner with several women I met on the internet." I don't think that would go over very well. I guess I could use the WS approach and lie about why and where I was going. It worked for her! Two problems with that. It would not be the right thing to do and she would figure out I was lying in about 10 seconds. She is much more observent than I am/was.

If it was not for all that, I would love to make that dinner. Of course it would be a long ways to travel to not get to talk once I got there.

If you have a spycam could you at least tell everybody what a handsome, distinguished, and wellbilt man I am.

I wonder if it is possible for them to get it? It is so different being the betrayer than being the betrayed. I know they think we do not "get it" either.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 5:44 PM, April 20th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

dip: so does this mean no.. ...

and we would let you get in a couple of words, i promise..

If you have a spycam could you at least tell everybody what a handsome, distinguished, and wellbilt man I am

everybody...what dip said above..


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
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