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User Topic: Long Term Affair X V I I
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 3:57 PM, April 17th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm glad I found this thread. You guys are great support. So much better than my MC. I'm getting rid of him after Monday.

Tryn - I know not forgiving is not healthy...but it's who i am. i'm a horrible grudge holder. So I can almost be sure that this problem with R, it mostly my fault. It's hard to look at yourself and I've been trying to do that lately.

Shirley - what are you doing for your anniversary? Mine is the 25th of this month and I can't even think about celebrating. In fact, Maybe that is the day I will leave my home.

Today we drove to open up my mom's summer home which is about one hour from my house. No talking. God this is awful.

Maybe I should have sex tonight? NOT....how can he possibly think I would want to be close with him when he doesn't speak to me?

I really think we are a lost cause. It's sad. And I seriously think it might be me. He is so used to me doing EVERYTHING...making dinner plans, vacations plans, why can't he see that I'm DEAD!!!???


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 4:38 PM, April 17th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

oh nofun, i am so so sorry that you are in so much pain, i wish i could give you a irl hug, and maybe give him a kick in the pants...

i wouldn't worry about not forgiving for now, maybe just acceptance, which in itself can seem an impossible task...one step at a time...

i get the feeling that you are trying to do too much at the same time, and your emotions are all over the place and it would seem minute by minute....thats a really rough place to be all the time..try to slow yourself and your mind down,...and yes i know how much easier this is said then done...like asking a speeding train to stop on a dime...but you can do it, start out with some breathing exercises, meditative breathing...

listen to what the mc has to say on monday before you fire him....in the meantime, is there anyone that can give you a referral to a new one...and i also agree with ukgirl that you should also be in ic, it will really help...i know it helped me a great deal and i am so not the therapist type, have always gone within for all my answers and peace...but this was just too too huge to do alone...that and some xanax when my emotions were all over the place...

(((((nofun)))))

ukgirl: so glad you're back...and that everything is fine..

thanks for the pep talk on teens, thankfully my manchild did not do nearly all that your son has done, and hopefully it will stay that way...i do know that this mommy ride aint over yet...i just hope that the potholes are a bit smaller...

that text....i can so understand that feeling you get in the pit of your stomach, been there...but hopefully it will be just as he says...

tryn:

My daughterís last prom date tonight!

how many did she have???

the brandywine story and pics were beautiful

gotta go finish cooking, i will check in again later....


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 5:13 PM, April 17th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

iwant - my emotions are all over the place. i can't stop my mind from going from one thing to the next. the pain sometimes seems unbearable.

I'm having a b-day party for my son tomorrow, 25. There are so many people coming that I'm starting to panic. I have to put on my happy face and that is so hard these days. I will drink, take zanax, and breath and maybe when I wake up tomorrow things will be better!!! LOL

Oh God help me!!


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 8:36 PM, April 17th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nofun: i know how it feels...and overwhelming is most definitely an understatement..you sometimes feel like all you do is go throught the motions...and thats because its all it is...you feel bad that you want do right by your kids, or whoever, and then on the flip side you really don't care because your world is over, the world as you knew it over...

trust me, this passes, ....and for a time it will come and go...and then hopefully we arrive at that ever elusive place called peace....

i feel more peace within then i have in a long time...it doesn't mean that i am healed, but i am on the road and you will too....

have some faith, we are here for you...and be careful mixing drinks and meds...they don't always go together...i think you should forget the drinks and just have the xanax...it really does take that edge off...

and listen tomorrow if things are not better, know in your heart that it may not be tomorrow morning, it could be in the afternoon, or the day after that...you really need to keep that faith that YOU will be ok...that you will get through this shit...that you will do more then survive, you will thrive...the first step to achieving it is believing it...


(((((nofun)))))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 11:35 PM, April 17th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Miracle: You are absolutely right, pretending everything is ok doesn't work, I have tried it, and it ends up backfiring on me. I am just trying to be pragmatic about the whole situation and since I suspect now that WH has NPD (or at least a LOT of the traits), I want to tread carefully. I am trying to find the balance of keeping myself sane and doing the 180 in the sense that I and the kids are first, not WH and not alienating him completely because of a thousand pragmatic reasons. God give me strength.

UKgirl: I'm sorry to hear about WH being stuck in Chicago. My mother is telling me all about that volcano in Iceland, and I haven't watched the news in ages. I also feel for you about that text message. Because of the betrayal, we always have our guard up. I hope WH didn't delete the text, if only for your peace of mind.
I refuse to be in a polygamous marriage. When we were first married, he lied to me about his culture/religion and polygamy. When I learned the truth, we had an agreement, and he promised me the moon, the stars, and the sky that he would NEVER do that to me. If he wanted a second wife, he would leave me first. I begged him to promise me this and he promised on his life that he wouldn't do it. This is one of the things that hurts so much. He also knew that xWH cheated and saw how devastated I was in the aftermath, and yet he still did this. He said the reason he kept it secret all these years was because he knew I wouldn't accept it and would be devastated.

I'm glad to hear that you survived the teen years and your DS's have turned into fine young men. It's so hard, but the rewards can be great.

Allgood: You're right, there is no marriage to save. As I said above, I'm just trying to be practical now and get all my ducks in a row, which seems to be taking longer than I first anticipated. I am trying to come to terms with the fact that my marriage is, in reality, over and trying to handle the transition as well as I can. I have discovered that in my sitch, it will be better to go slowly and carefully.

Tryn: Thank you so very very much for your supportive post. LOL, a dozen roses won't cut it (ironically, my WH planted rose bushes for me in our house overseas...another thing I'm losing) To tell the truth, I almost prefer he doesn't come home, but there's the kids and they miss their father very much. DS 34 tells me taht no way should WH sleep in my bed/make love. DS says that it would be about power/control for my WH. I really don't understand what he means by that.

nofun: That Vegas convention with all the "brothers". I get why it's so hard for you. It's not only that WH took OW away, but it was the lack of respect of you by bringing her there with them all and thier wives who you've known for years. How long ago did this happen? Does WH even "get" why this particular event is so painful.
My DS 34 had a lot of issues with his father too, and still does. I feel he's starting to come to terms with everything. He's gone through a lot, including the fact that he's a NYC fireman who was there at 9/11 and was in WTC #7 15 minutes before that fell at 5pm that day. I know he went through PTSD.

Forgive: I'm so sorry to hear about your twin sister. It must have been devastating for you! {{{{Forgive}}}}}
Yes, I'm seeing an IC and I know I've come a long way and still have far to go. I am considering taking DS's 14 & 11 to an IC, especially DS 14. I am blessed that my older sons (thier half brothers) love them so much and have always been involved in their lives. They see them as often as they can, and DS 34 comes to see them, not me!! With that, I've always been truly blessed.

Thank you all for listening. I'm still trying to decide what to do about WH coming and how to deal with him. Yes, he is the biggest cake eater of all time, and right now, I don't feel I'm enabling him per se, but just letting him be, so I can get myself ready for the future.
As Tryn says, I have to see what will make me happy. I know what that would be, but that's not happening. He will not leave her. He doesn't want to leave me.
I am just starting to demand respect, and will not allow him to bully me anymore. I even say things to him like, "Are you threatening me?" Which shocks him and he shuts up. I am trying to stand up to his demands and stay calm and detach.
Maybe I'm crazy, but I feel what I need at this point is to be able to be in control of myself around him and not cater to him, instead of kicking him out. That will make me feel stronger. I want to be able to say "no" without anger and resentment that I harbor inside myself and hurt myself.
Since I don't trust him anymore with anything, I want to be sure about all the finances so he doesn't screw me. He owes me a lot of money. How could I have been so stupid!!!! I wasn't with xWH. I was so careful with the finances etc, and ironically with xWH I didn't have to worry, because although he cheated, it was a month, he left (an exit affair) and was the poster boy for xH paying child support/maintainance faithfully and on time.

Current WH can charm the birds out of the trees, and he sure charmed me. I guess I did get my "Prince" Charming, but didn't realize what the charming meant in reality. It was all an illusion that I so readily bought into and he played it so well, Oscar performances.

Maybe this is why we LTA BS's get so confused. We really bought into the "reality" they portrayed. If we believed all that for so many years, we may feel that there must be something wrong with us and our perception of people, especially the one we trusted with our hearts, our lives, our past, present and future.

{{{{{Tribe}}}}}


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 12:15 AM, April 18th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tryn: Thank you for that link to youtube. Yes, you are right, that is what I want. All I ever wanted was someone to share my life with, a honest, good, faithful, moral man. I really believed I had that.

Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 2:47 AM, April 18th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Forgiveness. nofun, it is a very personal thing. My view on what it is and who it is for has changed. Tryní is an amazing person. So is shirley. So is forgivenotforget. And letís not forget lovinlife. For me, I donít need to forgive. I donít forgive him for the man he was or the lies he spun me. I donít forgive the fact that he left me to find things out that he KNEW I would discover at some point before he would come clean and even then wriggle and lie. Every piece of information has been like extracting teeth without anaesthetic. 32months after d-day I found out a vital piece of info by looking at the properties in some word docs. Know what? He avoided and lied. He stuck to the same story even though I presented him with the facts. After that, I stopped asking. I canít be doing with it. And so I have my version of his affair and our marriage. I am a detail person. I should have been a forensic Ö.. something.

Everyone goes on about how that was then and this is now. Itís how they are acting now. Well, for me that is just the point. How he is acting now. Acting. Actions. Life for him is like being in a play. Life for him is about living in the now. Heís always been impatient and one to flit from one thing to another. Esp jobs. I used to get riled when he asked me to do something and Iíd say ďRight now, this minute, canít waitĒ. That is him. Right now, this minute, canít wait. And it was that aspect of his personality that led him to this LTA. And the probable fling he had in 92/93 and the EA/PA he had in 99 which led to the LTA.

They say forgiveness is for you, not for the person who has wronged you. I can accept, which is as far as I am prepared to go. I tell people I canít forgive myself, so how can I forgive him? Forgive myself for what? Just being me, I guess.

I want to get to the point where I can leave that man who I married in 1980 behind. That this man is NOT the same person. If he is someone new in my life, there is nothing to forgive because this man has not (yet) hurt me. And I will only get to that point when I think he has truly left MOW behind. Right now, I donít think he has and I have a nagging doubt she will be back.

I have read so much on forgiveness, but none of it seems to apply to me. I canít do it. Maybe if I had a faith to hold on to, I could do it. But I donít. That is quite probably why I am still here.

Rambling on a quiet and lonely Sunday morning. Better get dressed and get on with my day. Put some loud music on to buck me up.

Sorry nofun. This was not really aimed at you. It's me rambling into cyberspace.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 6:12 AM, April 18th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mornin.
Honest: Just a suggestion to start putting together all the financial information you can get your hands on, copy it, store it somewhere he won't find it - maybe a safe deposit box or something. Once he realizes you're not really with him and moving on, it will be much harder to get your hands on.
I'm glad you're not really considering R with him. I think it makes it easier just to have direction.

Fun: have you guys tried to go out and do something together that doesnt require a lot of talking or interaction - like a movie? Maybe some new shared experiences that are light might make it easier for you guys to connect again.
That Vegas trip - I'd be beyone mad.

Things have been good here for awhile, but for some reason I felt the need to go snooping around last night & found he took the day off on his birthday last year (didn't tell me obviously) and I assume spent it with her as he didnt call her all day. I was so mad. I knew I shouldn't have confronted him about it, but I really was having a hard time getting over it. So - I confronted & he doesn't remember taking the day off, doesnt remember what he did, etc. Does admit though that it would be highly unusual for him to have gone an entire day without calling her, so... it's clear to me that he was with her.
He doesnt want to tell me about their relationship because he says nothing good will come of it. Honestly, he's told me the big stuff & at this point I really dont want to know anymore because it just keeps the pain going. I dont know why I started snooping yesterday. I guess I'm still looking to understand what was really going on all this time. I guess I'm still trying to figure out how and why this happened.
Anyway, bit of a bump for me. Yesterday am I was happy, thought I had legitimately got to a new level on this. Now, I'm back to thinking about it all the time. I'm going to have to distract myself today - Ugh.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 8:06 AM, April 18th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok - I think I'm ok again now.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 8:33 AM, April 18th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

iwant - you are right. I just go through the motions. It is truly overwhelming. I also have a business that is very demanding and stressful and sometimes I hate the fact that I am tied to it but in reality it's the business that has kept me sane. I am going to try to have a better day today. I ended up with a drink instead of the xanax but wished I took the xanax instead. I'm not a pill popper and am kind of afraid of the meds. I don't want to become dependant on them but they do help me to sleep and last night I did not sleep.

Honest - the Vegas thing was in Aug. 08. Right before my daughter's wedding. I just thank god I didn't know any of this before she got married. My H doesn't get it. He said it was no big deal and that I was making more out it than it really was. He swears he didn't take OW, she just showed up. This is what makes me ripping mad. Does he think I'm that stupid? And he sticks by this story...so he's still lying. And I really don't want to live my remaining days with a liar.
God Bless your 34 yr old son. He sounds like a wonderful human being. And god bless you and your family. I get what you are going through. And I get why your son said don't sleep in the same bed with H when he comes home. It is a control issue. My H is very controling and manipulative. You are a strong and kind woman.

UKgirl - I get what you are saying about forgiveness. I can't forgive myself. I guess deep down I am blaming myself for being so blind and stupid all these years. For trusting, for allowing H to take advantage of me. For allowing him to disrespect me. I feel all of these things so maybe on top of being angry with him I am being angry with myself too. You know what's weird is my H is a "right now" guy also. He will ask my son to do something for him and if my son doesn't come to the house that day my husband gets all pissy and does it himself. Then when my son comes to do whatever it was that was asked of him, he ends up having to take a rash of H's shit. I swear if I was my son I would tell him where to go, but my son doesn't, he just goes home feeling again that whatever he does for his father is not good enough. GRRRRR...

Allgood - we've tried just about everything. I'm like a dead man walking at this point. I'm so glad you guys think this Vegas thing is huge because it's killing me and H says "it's no big deal". Oh I could scream!! What did he think that I would never find out? The gossip at the fire station is worse than a room of old women. Plus I live in a samll town. The latest I just heard is one of his "brother buddies" told him to not move out of his home for legal reasons. What legal reasons? I have no children under age so everything would get split regardless of who stays and who leaves. The shit I hear from the station is beyond me. I have been so good to these guys. I've given them work, resources when they've needed it, etc. NOW....I told my H, I don't want any of them near my place of business. Screw them all.

Allgood - I'm sorry you are feeling down again. I have stopped snooping because when I find something I get "I don't remember", "No, I wasn't with her on that date", blah blah blah. And then I end up making up my own story to satisfy my mind and I think that is what puts me in that down mood. Someone told me about the Vegas trip. I didn't snoop to find that out. I figure at this point, there isn't anything else that could floor me except finding out that maybe there was other women or other trips he took her on.

About a month before I found out about his LTA (this was when I was in the snooping stage)I found OW's sunglasses in his jacket pocket. He went out Friday night (with the guys) and Saturday morning very early before he got up I went snooping in the car. He happened to have left his jacket in the car. I took the glasses from the jacket pocket and never said anything. About a week later he asked if I had found woman's sunglasses in the car and gave me a lame excuse that some woman had left them at a restaurant and he thought I would like them so he took them home to me but now he can't find them. He never admitted they were OW's, even to this day. So they are sitting in my bureau draw. I don't know if I should smash them into a million pieces or what? They are ugly just like her.

My H also keeps bringing up the fact that he will NOT give me details about what they did sexually. I don't ask about sexual things because honestly I may puke. So I say to him, "I haven't asked you about sexual things, I already know what you did, I've lived with you long enough to know what you did." What's that all about?
I find that upsetting.

I guess I just am rambling now...sorry people! But it feels good to write it down and get it out. I know you understand!

Allgood, you will get out of that slump. Do something good for yourself today.

I'm going to start cooking for tonight. That should keep my mind occupied for today.

Hugs to all of you!!!


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 10:18 AM, April 18th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

honest: i completely understand the need to get all your ducks in a row, and as i said before that does not mean that he "has" to sleep in your bed much less is entitled to sex....that is a privilege reserved for faithful spouses...and if he insists on sleeping in the bed then you find someplace else to sleep if necessary...

DS says that it would be about power/control for my WH. I really don't understand what he means by that.

your son is very wise...for your ws it is completely about control..especially the way he threatens you, people who need threats to get what they want really want control and will do whatever it takes to get it...think about it, think about all his decisions, think about how he speaks to you...he degrades you so that you have no self-esteem..for if you develop self-esteem he cannot control you..he keeps you guessing, although there really is no guessing..he actually is pretty clear on his intentions, which is where the threat lies...


How could I have been so stupid!!!!

LISTEN UP GIRLS:

none of us were stupid in any way shape or form....WE TRUSTED...it is that simple...we trusted and we are supposed to trust our spouses more then anyone else on the planet...NONE of us believed that we had no reason not to trust..think about it, why would we...and even if some of us had some nagging suspicions...our ws's were really good at quelling them and society is really big on logic and we learn not to trust our intuition...

listen really carefully all of you who still feel like you were stupid on some level:

WE DIDN'T KNOW BETTER, TRUST IS PART OF MARRIAGE, IT IS PART OF THOSE VOWS WE ALL TOOK, WE HAD NO REASON TO QUESTION THEM....NOW WE KNOW BETTER AND WILL DO BETTER....

STOP BLAMING YOURSELVES FOR NOT SEEING WHAT COULD NOT BE SEEN...

got it!!!!


ukgirl

want to get to the point where I can leave that man who I married in 1980 behind. That this man is NOT the same person. If he is someone new in my life, there is nothing to forgive because this man has not (yet) hurt me. And I will only get to that point when I think he has truly left MOW behind. Right now, I donít think he has and I have a nagging doubt she will be back[quote

i must give you kudos on this perspective, the one without the doubt...to choose to love the man he has become and not the man he was.....truly a unique perspective...because you are choosing to put it all behind you, all the stuff you know you will never know, the details you will never find out...your only caveat is that he truly leaves her completely in mind and soul...and until you believe that you will not rest...

so i have another spin for you if this is truly what you want....believe it until he gives you reason not too...i don't mean that you should trust him completely, but don't distrust either...put your mindset somewhere in the middle.....and i know not easy especially when things like that text happen...but i believe that all minds can be molded by habit...so take your mind and give it some new thoughts as habit, each and everytime your mind wanders create some sort of exercise to put it back on course...i don't know if this makes any sense...i see it in my mind...putting into words that are understandable though is an exercise for my mind..

forgiveness: let it go, you are trying to master the acceptance, so let the forgiveness part go, its not necessary for you to move on and succeed at having peace but the acceptance is..

allgood and nofun:

on the lack of opening up by your ws's...

you need to keep in mind that you are still "fresh" so to speak....and so is he...he has years of brokeness that needs fixing before he knows how to respond to you...he is minimizing or refusing to tell because he feels one of 2 things or even both...he doesn't want to add to your pain, and he doesn't want to add to his guilt(to what he needs to face within himself)...

he is not at least outright denying from what it seems and this is a good first step...


allgood:

snooping is kind of a double edged sword...if you are the type that know all you need to know about the past but still need to know for the present and the future ...you stand the most to lose persay..because you may uncover stuff from the past and nothing from the present which is what happened in your case...i admire that you do not need the details..in my quest for details i uncovered, 3 additional women to the first, and learned that 2 of them were ltas, i learned so much more then i was actually prepared for...i knew i needed to know all, but the way i uncovered them was just more detrimental to an already dying sich...

i eventually let it all go, i don't snoop anymore at least not for women...i just figured out at least in my case that i would always have questions and the fact that pfm still continued to choose to lie was all i needed at that point..so i chose to let it go...and free myself from more mind movies, more questions, more triggers, more everything bad....

for you if your snooping is snooping in the past...for now especially since you don't want to know more, don't need to know more...let it go...if you need to snoop for the present and the future..then by all means snoop for that but let the rest go...


and i am happy that you are learning to "right" yourself again...not easy..but very cool, and i am proud of you for being able to do that so soon...you are making such great strides in your own recovery...so yay for you..


nofun:

i completely understand the need to NOT become dependent on the meds...i had an issue with that too...my dr tried to put me antidepressants because the xanax can become addicting...i had adverse reactions to both tries..and then i said no to the ad's...so i stayed with the xanax and only took it when i really needed it, i then i only took a half of the lowest dosage...and it was just enough for me...i learned how to meditate..for me i am not the sit and breathe type...but i learned to do that for 5 minutes at a time here and there, but my power walking became my meditation...as gardening can be for some, or music..find your nitch, something that takes you out of your mind so to speak...it will truly help....


today though nofun...take the xanax..you are having a party, so much to do...it will def help keep the edge off...

i pray you have some peace today and actually some happiness with your kids and friends..

(((((tribe))))


ETA: I HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO UNDO THE OBVIOUS WRONG QUOTE BOXY THING....i tried to undo it 3 times...sorry if i made it harder to read...as if i don't ramble enough now ive got quoteboxitis...ok dip i got a new disease now

[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 10:24 AM, April 18th (Sunday)]


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 10:35 AM, April 18th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you Miracle - wise words as always.

I don't know if I'm jumping the gun, but I took off my wedding ring months ago, because to me, I didn't feel married & I was uncertain whether I was fully commited to this relationship or not.
I am feeling better at this point & would like to give my h some reassurance that I see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Anyway...
To me, to be able to say I'm in 100%, I need my H to come to me and say (convincingly) that he completely regrets the A, is 100% committed to me, is going to have boundaries in the future & gain some new skills for realizing when those boundaries are being broken and to find some coping skills so as to deal with whatever problems, disappointments, etc that led him to choose to have an A rather than to confront our problems head-on.
That's what I see - maybe I missed a bit. I'm sure you guys will let me know if there were any glaring errors.
Anyway - I seriously have concerns as to what is going on in ic as there seems to be less ic (like what is the root issue of the A, etc.)and more of the therapist talking to him about how to fix our relationship - which so far seems to be limited to his urging my h to take the lead and plan things for us to spend time together.
I'd like to explain the above to my h & ask him to share it with ic so we can start moving in this direction. Maybe we should go back to him for mc (he was our original mc - my h is only seeing him alone at this point because I said when I'm there, he doesn't talk at all.)
What do you guys think? Does this just make me look like a complete control freak? Which I'm not by the way - ic thinks I am, but my H told him I'm not.)

[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 10:37 AM, April 18th (Sunday)]


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 11:15 AM, April 18th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

They say forgiveness is for you, not for the person who has wronged you. I can accept, which is as far as I am prepared to go. I tell people I canít forgive myself, so how can I forgive him? Forgive myself for what?

UKG - To me, acceptance is huge hurdle to overcome for us so to have reached this point is to have traveled a long and painful journey. Commend yourself for having gotten there. Forgiveness hopefully will come if only for yourself. I do have to agree with Miracle though and this is why I highlighted your statement, "Forgive myself for what?" Exactly! You did nothing wrong. You trusted and giving your trust and love to your H all of those years is something that says so much about you and about all of us.
What they did with that trust and that love is shameful and I would rather be in the position of knowing that I gave my love and trust freely than to be in the position of knowing how devastatingly evil I was for betraying a love and trust that was so true. I often wonder what it is like for these S's to live with this shame. I can see it so often in my H and I hope one day he can forgive himself because possibly that is a very important part of his healing. If they truly have recommitted to the R, are truly remorseful, open, honest and eager to be the H or W we always believed they could be, then they will need to forgive themselves and any forgiveness for them will be a huge gift indeed.
I often think about how completely I trusted my H and the OW. I know I've mentioned this before but on 2 trips I even drove them to the airport and kissed and hugged each of them goodbye, wishing them a wonderful time. I remember saying to my H after d-day that they must have been laughing their asses off at that one. But you know what, I don't feel stupid or foolish for believing in them. I could never have thought those that I loved were capable of such utter deceipt.
We come from a different perspective altogether and thank God that we do. And we evaluate things and interpret them from that personal perspective. How could we ever have believed those we loved were capable of betraying us in this way? I am proud of myself that I come from a place of believing in the goodness and honesty of those I love, and of always wanting to give them the benefit of the doubt. I would not have wanted to live out my life as a cynic, always doubting and seeing the worst in people. I would have hated that kind of life. And even now that I have discovered their betrayal, I work very hard at not letting this make me into a bitter, disillusioned person. It has been a tough battle but I am determined that my H's LTA will not change who I am and need to be in order to be happy.
Does this make sense???
I have often thought that if my H should betray this gift I have extended, then again I will not hate myself for giving him a chance to change but will know that I have done the right thing and I will take pity on him because he will be the one who loses.

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 11:23 AM, April 18th (Sunday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
forgivenotforget
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Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 11:41 AM, April 18th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What do you guys think? Does this just make me look like a complete control freak? Which I'm not by the way - ic thinks I am, but my H told him I'm not.)

Wow, this is a big red flag to me and if my IC/MC said this about me, I would work very fast to find another one.
Did you hear him say this or did your H relate this to you? If you did not hear this directly, I would absolutely have to discuss this with the IC/MC before continuing with him.
I know how hard it is to sit quietly during MC sessions, especially if your H is not saying anything. In my case, I literally have to force myself to let my H finish sentences when he is saying things that are either blatantly untrue or self-pitying. My MC is so good at recognizing this in me (of course I'm seething or squirming or not holding back) but he will just hold up a finger to give my H a chance to finish and later gives me the opportunity to "speak my mind."
I guess what I'm trying to get at is that these S's have been so good at lying to themselves about the M and justifying their actions, that they bring these rationalizations to the C'ing session and expect us to sit quietly.
Maybe this isn't the case with everyone but Allgood, could it be possible this is part of what is going on in your case? In other words, maybe your H sits quitely because he knows that if he tries to justify, rationalize or minimize his actions of the past you will call him on it immediately and so he chooses silence instead. Also, we know that most of our S's are conflict avoiders and this is not conducive to joint sessions, unless of course the MC is very good at what he does, making the environment a safe place for both parties to voice their issues. Our MC often has each of us come in separately and then we finish with both of us coming together and this has been very effective. I think this is an excellent approach.
So, back to your question. I absolutely think that if your R is to work, you need to get back in MC'ing and NO, this does not make you a control freak. It makes you a very generous person who is willing to give her H and M another chance. It is a gift and a very generous, loving one at that!

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 12:00 PM, April 18th (Sunday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
iwantamiracle
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Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 12:37 PM, April 18th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

fnf: i agree with you completely on so many issues to both ukgirl and allgood...

Does this make sense???

you make perfect sense to me on all counts..

i remember way back when i was the newbie, before your sad loss of your sister...you were not as centered as you seem to be now...you seem to have had so much growth, i am hoping i am remembering correctly, i have been known to mix a few of the lta'ers from them up, my head was not quite screwed on straight, and my memory in and on good days sucks...but it i got my people straight then bravo for you...and if i mixed it up and you have always been as centered as you are now then bravo for keeping the course...so i guess either way...bravo

the only i thing i would like to add to what fnf has already said is for you allgood....you and nofun seem to run parrallel lives right now...with a few differences...get yourself a new mc and ic for both of you...

you are so not a control freak...and what you require for true "r" is what you require and from that list you have, you have right to expect all of it and then some dear heart...remember that...you are allowed to have certain expectations of your spouse, and the ones you have listed are basic ones at that...no, not a control freak, but a woman who knows what is necessary and is willing to stand up for herself as she should...never ever be afraid to ask for your needs, first off how else would he know, and then that puts the ball in his course so to speak...this is what i need...you either fulfill my needs or you don't..this is not a choice but a requirement..and second you have the right to have a voice in your relationship and life...he took that away by his actions, you have the right to take it back....


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
Allgoodnamesgone
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Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 12:49 PM, April 18th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for your support FNF & Miracle.

Just to clarify - I was wondering if my suggesting what the ic/mc should be doing or pursuing is controlling.

And, as far as the statement from the ic - he asked my h if I was controlling, my h said no & ic said that is the way I seem in ic/mc. I get along fine with him. He just seems to think my h is intimidated by me, which my h flatly denies (however - I have to say - that it would certainly explain the circumventing instead of confronting problems - when my h knows he's not going to be able to bs me.)


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 12:56 PM, April 18th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

so i have another spin for you if this is truly what you want....believe it until he gives you reason not too...i don't mean that you should trust him completely, but don't distrust either...put your mindset somewhere in the middle.....and i know not easy especially when things like that text happen...but i believe that all minds can be molded by habit...
I do. That is exactly what I do. In a way, we have changed places. H lived in the now, the moment. He didnít plan or look ahead much. He would take a job, do it for as long as it interested him, get headhunted (read flattered) and take another opportunity to be into something and somewhere new. And that same attitude meant he had the affair(s). Do it now, before the opportunity goes. Carpe diem. I was the one to plan and look to the future. I think I did that because of the children. I thought long term about schooling, friends, family, savings, university and (hahaha!) what we would do when they had flown.

These days, I live in the now, the moment. I donít plan or look ahead more than 6mths max. H wants more than that. He wants the security of the long term commitment now that it is no longer there. He took something for granted and only realised what he had lost when it was gone.
I donít know what he could do to demonstrate that the ex-gf is not going to be accepted back into his life. We donít talk about it any more. I donít know if thatís a good thing or not.

Honest, It is about power and control. Your husband is manipulative. He knows which buttons to press Ė so take them away. Get your finances sorted as much as you can do and enlist the help of family and friends. Organise and find what you need on every level, that way you have your feet in the starting blocks while your H is still getting his kit together. Being prepared does not mean divorce. You are giving him every opportunity to get down off the fence. He IS cake eating and what is more, he thinks he is entitled to. Arrogant doesnít even begin to describe it.

Allgood, snooping is something we all feel a need to do post d-day. I never, ever did it before. I trusted my H and never thought he had any reason to hide anything. But the knowledge post d-day had me turning out pockets, searching through our library, digging in drawers, examining bank statements. It was emotionally draining and frayed my already torn nerves. If there is anything more to find, I wonít find it now until or unless we move from this house. As for any current devious activity, I canít be bothered with it. If he lies, it ainít to me. Iím past caring. And I feel freer for it.

So - I confronted & he doesn't remember taking the day off,
WS amnesia.
Does this just make me look like a complete control freak?
No. But it is something very personal. It sounds as if you want a recommitment ceremony of some sort. If that is the case, you should ask your H to write out his promises to you and you should do the same. It can be as private as you like, but it needs to be an occasion. Nothing wrong with that, honey. I think you would take it as read the bits about remorse and regret and all of that. That should be implied, if not said, in his address to you.

I don't know if I should smash them into a million pieces or what?
I would. Iíd put them on a board, take a heavy hammer and smash the fuck out of them. I did that with a china mug FWH had brought back from a certain hotel chain he and MOW used to frequent. Very satisfying. H found it somewhat disturbing though!

I hope one day he can forgive himself because possibly that is a very important part of his healingÖ.. any forgiveness for them will be a huge gift indeed.
One huge advantage for the living in the now way my H lived his life. He forgave himself the moment he told me. I reckon he forgave himself because he justified the affair as unfinished dialogue Ė something that was going to happen if he bumped into her again. He knew it was going to happen even before the met her! I donít think he sees there is anything to forgive, not that he didnít do wrong, he recognises that; it was just one of those life things as far as he was concerned. He needed to find out if there was ďanything of substanceĒ. He had a real problem with my devastation and he was in despair at times when he realised the effect of what he had done. He wants my forgiveness, sure. But he forgave himself over and again during the affair and then when he confessed. It was done, guilt over, move on.

How could we ever have believed those we loved were capable of betraying us in this way?
We never could because we thought we got back what we gave out. I like to think I gave freely and openly. I trusted and he chose to abuse that trust. I unselfishly gave him calm, security and certainty. She selfishly gave him anxiety, pressure and turmoil. I am someone so much nicer than her on the inside. I can only think that something inside him died to allow him to do this to me. And thatís very sad.

Our MC often has each of us come in separately and then we finish with both of us coming together and this has been very effective. I think this is an excellent approach.
Wow! When can I book your counsellor???


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 1:00 PM, April 18th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

allgood:

And, as far as the statement from the ic - he asked my h if I was controlling, my h said no & ic said that is the way I seem in ic/mc. I get along fine with him. He just seems to think my h is intimidated by me, which my h flatly denies (however - I have to say - that it would certainly explain the circumventing instead of confronting problems - when my h knows he's not going to be able to bs me.)

this seems to me a red "c" flag....if he was asking because he is trying to draw reasons or feelings out of ws, would be one thing, but to make a "judgement" on it is quite another...he should not be putting thoughts in your ws's head first off, and second, what he percieves in your personality is also something that he should keep to himself...he needs to be working on the faults imo in your ws's perceptions, entitlements, thought processes,etc....

even if you are controlling which you may or may not be, should not be the issue but how your ws perceives you not your "c"....and that would still really not have to much to do with what is broken within him to begin with...his choosing to have an a really has nothing to do with you...because whatever was wrong with the relationship, something had to be wrong within him to think that that course of action would fix it....but even then...if the "c" decides to go the route of what was wrong in your marriage for you to seek outside whatever...it still needs to be his perceptions of you and not someone elses..

just my 2 cents


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 1:20 PM, April 18th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Iím sitting here with DS4ís English stuff next to me. The Crucible. The fucking Crucible. I made FWH deal with a particular essay DS had to write. I canít stand it. When H was at school, he played John Proctor, the adulterous preacher, and his to-be gf played Mary Warren, a somewhat gullible and spineless servant. His existing gf of the time played Elizabeth, his wife! During the course of the playís run, he started dating MOW. Almost a case of life mimicking art. And then again twentyfive-fucking-years later. AARRRRGGHHHH! I found his school copy of the book with all his notes in it (he also did it for higher exams). I ripped it to shreds and dumped it. Ridiculous maybe. I didnít even know him then. And now Iíve got the same friggin book staring at me again! Stupid fucking trigger!!!

Sheesh. Vent over. Gonna get dinner.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 1:35 PM, April 18th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((((ukgirl)))))

that sucks...when its over ds's school assignment...go out get another copy and have a crucible burning.....your own little bonfire...and then anytime you might see of it or hear of it you can think of your own personal bonfire...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
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