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User Topic: Long Term Affair X V I I
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 6:07 AM, April 16th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dang I missed a lot!

Fun: Ya - it sounds to me like your h feels defeated. (I know my H can get this way even when he is doing absolutely nothing to change the situation.) I try to think of it as - Hey these guys are inherently selfish. So, now they have to actually do something that makes them feel uncomfortable with themselves, with us, etc. And, since it seems like you have done so much for your H over the course of the marriage he's probably without the skills to even get it done.
I try to look at the little things my h is doing and appreciate how it is a sign of love & committment. For example - I wonder if your h wouldn't otherwise go to ic, but is doing it for you.
Like Miracle said - give it 1 last shot - go to the mc - and lay it out there that this is difficult for both of you, but the refusal to speak with you & uncomfortable situation at home, is overwhelming to you & you are thinking of moving out. And then explain whatever it is you are hoping to accomplish by moving out - whether it be just to take a break, to think about whether you want to R, etc.

O & when I learned that my h broke nc & I told him it was over & started laying out the ground rules for how we were going to co-exist, as far as ow, money, the kids, etc., my H said something like I dont know why you have me being with ow. - that he would be in a relationship with her, but he wouldnt move in with her or marry her because he has no desire to live with someone else's family. So - ya - it did cross my mind that if she didnt have kids that this may have ended differently.

But - I have to say I'm in a good place right now. Tho my H read the manual, he didn't actually say or do anything to implement any of the suggestions other than being patient with my mood swings. I was just happy he read the article. (Man how my standards have dropped!)
But -this week was good - he didn't mope around like I thought he would about missing the work event or coming home between shifts & we actually had a really good time last night. So, I'm hoping this continues. It would be a nice change of pace.

Miracle: I hope you are well. I dont have much to offer you as I have not had the experience of dealing with teens yet. (I'm soaking in everything you guys are saying though.)

Honest: you sound ok - hope you are.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 9:53 AM, April 16th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

allgood: you do sound good....i know the pain is there, i know you still have alot of unresolved stuff goin on, and with all that you sound good...like you have found the path you need to walk...like you see it all, the good and the bad, but you are on your journey and now and your journey is defined..and for now thats o.k. ....its a step towards healing...and that is better then o.k.

honest: our ws's can be such dunces at time i wholehartedly agree...

and thanks for letting me know about how good your son turned out....i used to do that too when i was potty training... ..needless to say it was not a pleasant experience in my home for 2 out 3...and my mantra used to be..."last i checked, every kid in college is completely trained to shit on a toilet"... of course this was said in my head, can't say shit in front of the kids...at least not then.. ...and i do have to say he really is a good kid...i just really wish he wasn't so much like my h or his foo...he seems to have so much of their traits, the not so good ones.... ...

booger: i have not read that thread yet, but i am so sure that if you wrote from the heart, from a place of love that whatever you said was not only fine but helpful...and hopefully jasper is not so overwhelmed with all of it and it gets through...if i have some time later i will check it out though because this inquiring mind just wants to know.. ...

sending a shout out to the rest of this wonderful tribe, and the lurkers too...may you all find some peace...((((tribe)))))

ukgirl: is the airspace closure an issue for you, if so know that i am praying for you hon...you are on my brain for some reason...check in please..


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 4:05 PM, April 16th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood - I think you hit the nail on the head...he feels defeated. It's ironic how your husband sounds similar to mine. My H would never go to MC on his own, he is doing it because I asked him to. He has done most everything I asked. NC, MC, STD testing, no more going out with "the guys" on Friday nights, no more seeing his friend that helped hide his affair.

He brought me home a dunkin donuts coffee this morning, sat down in the living room and started to talk to me. It wasn't the tone I wanted to hear but nonetheless, he talked. He said that he didn't want to live like this and that I needed to make a decision. Either I file for D on Monday, or try to mend the M. He said he knows what he wants and it is me. I said I was not ready to file for D and I was afraid of R. (God does that make no sense at all?)

So we talked and I cried for 2 hours, I was late for work AGAIN. Good thing I'm the boss or I'd be fired for sure. At one point he said, we can live as roommates and friends and come and go as we please if you want. He doesn't want to leave the home. I asked if he wanted me to leave the home. He said no, but it's difficult to sleep in the same bed and there is no intimacy. How can I have intimacy with all of those horrid mind movies? It is like torture. And I get disgusted like I want to throw up.

What I really wanted to hear was, I will wait for you for however long it takes. I didn't get that. I know him well enough to realize he has no clue how to communicate his feelings, no clue what actions to take. He was all over the place, he said he wanted to book a room and either take me to the ocean in Maine or Boston overnight, dinner, etc. I said why didn't you? He said "will it make a difference?" Well, duh...

I feel like nothing got resolved except he's talking to me now.

We are both in a very dark place right now. I told him I didn't hate him and that I would like for this marriage to work but I feel dead inside and can't get past the anger and betrayal.

It's just a horrible bad situation all around and I'm not getting what I need from him. I think because he has no clue how to do it.

He even expressed how he thinks about his A everyday and it digusts him. He said he didn't even care for OW. He said he did it for the sex because in his mind I was having physical problems due to menopause and he felt entitled and that is how he justified it and was mad at me. He said even though I thought there was nothing wrong with the marriage, he was unhappy. (but he's always unhappy) And he said shame on him for not talking to me about it. And then he said the sex wasn't even that good with OW. Again I asked when the sex started and he said they had an EA and friendship for 10 years on and off and the last 2 years because of my issues, the sex came about. It just pisses me off. Now I get to have those painful mind movies...I could puke. So I'm not going to go there.

I'm going to take Miracles advice though and give it 1 last shot, lay it all out with MC and see what happens.

Allgood, when you layed the ground rules, what were they? as far as co-existing.

I'm still planning on moving out maybe next week unless we can come to some kind of a truce this weekend. God he is so so selfish.

And where I am going, I could stay for as little or as long as I like. It's a second home my mom has about 50 minutes from my office. I've already given her a heads up. My parents don't use it much anymore and have put it in my name. That's just one more thing that gets thrown in with the marital assets if I decide to divorce. He also told me he is going to the retirement board to put in his papers.

I guess none of us thought we would ever be in this kind of position. I'm just all fucked up, that's the bottom line. I was doing so well until TT and I've gone back down the deep dark hole.

Sorry for the rambling!


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 5:00 PM, April 16th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey Tribe!!!

I have been lurking and following but, sorry, not posting. I have been slowing trying to approach a different place and it is like walking slowly toward a very wounded animal. I am more than 2.5 years out and, like FNF said, am coming to the realization that I have to start living again. For 2.5 years, just about every day has been a form of dealing with the fallout from my Hs double life. However, since he confessed the truth more than 2.5 years ago I have seen incredible changes in him.

As NJgal said –

Before d-day.. they are compartmentalizing, in denial, and also influenced by peer pressure -in this case the affair partner...who is egging them on.
It's not until we hold a mirror up to them do they realize...its as if they are in a trance.
and..in my case...my husabdnwas shocked into a life change. He did change so many things about himself.

In my case, I think he knew he had to confess everything or he was literally going to kill himself with his stupid decisions. Drinking, unprotected sex, stupid ridiculous stunts that should have had him arrested if not worse. Yes, he charmed his way out of being arrested (or worse) several times. When he confessed he told me a story that shocked the hell out of me. He was out of town on business (which he is a lot). He and two co-workers went out for drinks after work, then to dinner with more drinks and wine. Then, they all piled into a car and the guy who was driving slammed into a concrete embankment exiting the highway. Luckily, it was a very expensive, very safe car and no one was hurt. The cops came but because one of them was a known local businessman, the cops let them go and they TOOK A CAB TO A STRIP CLUB TO KEEP PARTYING!!!! When he got home a couple of days later everything was “just fine”. I never knew that he was almost killed a few days earlier. How they can keep that sort of info inside defies the imagination. When he told me that story I knew what a sick, disgusting life he had been living and knew how much work he had to fix himself.

The good news is that he did embark on his own journey to understand himself and to make the changes necessary to lead the kind of life that he could feel good about. He has uncovered some amazing things about himself in IC (he still is going every week 2.5 years later). In fact, today he called me after to tell me that he thought he may have hit “the motherload” in IC. We had been having a discussion over the past few weeks about “self-talk”. He realized that all of his self-talk was negative even if he did something positive. The way he spoke to himself basically was a constant barrage of “not good enough”. He started probing that and today realized something that he thinks is a fundamental problem that he can change. He realized that his mother was never, ever happy her entire life. He was closest to her and did everything he could to try to make her proud, happy, etc but he couldn’t. He realizes that he internalized that as “I am not good enough” “nothing I can do is good enough” so he sought false validation. Now he sees it it is clear as day to him. The poor child spent his whole life trying to make his mother happy and suffering because she wasn’t.

I tell this story as an example of the type of work and digging that these LTA WS need to do to find the answers to the why and to fix what is broken in themselves.

Anyway, I have been trying to find a way to let myself back into this relationship. But, every time I would start to approach that thought it was like I was a wounded animal backed into a corner. If I let someone near they will hurt me again. I kept telling myself that I would never forgive myself if I was foolish enough to believe him and then he hurt me again. I was completely and utterly stuck. I had reached acceptance but couldn’t move beyond it. Then I was reading a book last week and it had the following quote from Desmond Tutu “"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew". It hit me like a ton of bricks. I need to give him the chance to begin anew with dignity. If he hurts me again it is because he could not be the person he wanted to be but THAT IS NOT MY FAULT. I am going to give him the chance to begin anew with dignity and pray that he sees that gift for what it is. Our 25th wedding anniversary is coming up in May and I might even do something I haven’t done in 2.5 years - commemorate the day. Not in a joyous fashion but as a milestone of what we have been through. He doesn’t know this yet so, shhhhh, don’t tell him!!!


HS


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 5:03 PM, April 16th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

{{{{{Nofun}}}}}}

I understand what you are saying that your WH doesn't know how to communicate or help you. I also understand your confusiton, it's perfectly normal.

From what you seem to be saying, is that you don't want to divorce, and simply are afraid to R. Your whole world has been turned upside down and it's hard to move in ANY direction.

I agree with Miracle. Give it one last shot. Give it all you have, and tell WH you both are going to try your best. That could be the beginning of trust. You can tell him that. That you will trust him to at least try his best to R.

At this point, if you both try your best, and if it works, you will both be rewarded with a new and better relationship. If it doesn't work, I feel, the trying will help you heal. You may both realize there is too much damage or the relationship before the A needed too much work. But, he won't be hurting you any more. You may both at least respect one another again as people who tried, but it didn't work.

I might also suggest to look for a new MC. You don't seem to be very comfortable with the one you have. Maybe a new MC will be symbolic of the new effort that both of you are going to try.

You know what? Take him up on going away for a few days to the beach or Ocean. Just a change of scenery may lift both of your spirits up a little. There is no quick fix to this, although I know I wish there was, just to stop the pain.

Allgood: I have been doing better in many ways, but there is so much pain too. I guess it's better because now I'm having a good day with some bad spots, whereas before the whole day was bad.
Like the difference between partly cloudy and parly sunny.

Miracle: I know what you mean about DS being like WH. When the older DS's were getting into their late teens, they looked like thier father, had his facial expressions, his gestures, and even walked like him! Drove me crazy. I've always said that oldest DS has the worst traits of me and his father, whereas DS#2 has the best of our traits

Let me share what I told the two older Ds's. I would tell them that their father is a good man, although I was not happy with what he did. I told them he had a lot of very good traits. (No matter what, a child will love his parent and it hurts them to hear anyone put them down, even if they might do it themselves)
I gave them an example. I said that one trait I admired was that if you asked WH to do something, he may say NO, which would bother me, BUT if he said YES, you could count on him to carry it through. I, on the other hand always wanted to please everyone, so said Yes to everything and would be so overwhelmed and overloaded, I wouldn't be able to do it, or forget. I told DS's that that is something I would want to change.

Guess what? DS#2 is exactly like his father in carrying through and I always complimented him on that.

My whole point is (my English teacher used to say....just get to the point!!!) that try to find the strengths and build on that. Your DS is in a very hard place. He is hurting. and even if he's a "man-child", he still needs a hug. If he acts like he doesn't (male pride and all), tell him YOU need it!!

I am coming out of the fog more and more and am trying my best to help DS 11 and 15. I was too much in pain before. I feel like I have been sick with the worst flu in my life and am just starting to get a little better, but feel soooo weak and am still having relapses.

Sorry, I'm in a bad place today. It's almost like I want to lay down and sob, but the tears aren't coming. I feel so flat, down, and hurting. WH isn't here, he hasn't called in a few days and all I keep thinking about is that he is there with her and the OC's. I keep feeling I have to do something concrete for myself, but am just getting enough strength together that I can get through a day without crying, never mind even doing normal things like keeping the house clean! I just feel so overwhelmed with all the stuff I need to do.

WH is coming back in 2 weeks and I don't know what to do about where he should sleep. I know he expects that he is sleeping in our bed and that he wants to put a front on for the kids.
I don't know what I want. I am torn between kicking him from here to eternity, and then I do miss him. Or I guess to be more exact, miss who I thought he was.

It gets lonely sleeping alone (I'm not talking about being "intimate"). I've been doing it for so long with our damn lifestyle. It's so easy to pretend that everything is ok, just so I can be hugged and held.

Sorry, I have the p.l.o.m.'s (poor little ol' me)

{{{{{tribe}}}}}


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 5:50 PM, April 16th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((honesttoafault)))

I have no words of wisdom geesh I can't even pull myself up.

We are all in this together and thank God for all you wonderful people.

I don't think I've posted so much since dday. Maybe it's good to get it all out.

I keep telling myself, "I will survive" - remember that song?


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 9:44 PM, April 16th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fun - what was the nature of the TT that has put you back like this?
And, what were things like before this most recent discovery.
I realize I'm not in your house, but I do think he's made some changes.
I think what he said to you was probably hard for him to say, just because he's not comfortable discussing the A at all.
What I've been trying to do with my H is looking for what he does. Like, in his own awkward way I think his gesture with the coffee was very thoughtful and the idea about going away really nice.If you've been running the family throughout your marriage, he probably doesn't even know how to go about planning the trip, etc. I know my husband wouldn't.
They just dont seem like they can care for us the way we would care for them if roles were reversed. And, that makes us feel like they don't really care about us. Maybe its not fair for us to think like that.

And -if you are saying you haven't been intimate - well, if your H & mine are really similar - I don't think my husband would be able to deal with that. (Tho I completely understand your reluctance, fear, etc. and I'm not judging AT ALL). I'm just saying, I know my H & I pretty much discovered (just before DDay actually) that our approach to sex was very different. I didn't have any interest because I didn't feel emotionally close to him. He didn't feel emotionally close to me because we weren't being intimate enough.
A lot of times when we are having sex, I think about ow, about what he did with her, what she looked like, etc. It sucks. But, I think it's something that might help your husband reach the next level. (Which in turn might help you to reach teh next level). I'm just trying to think the way they think. I'm sure my H thought I didn't have any feelings for him (something he told me prior to DDay) because of my lack of interest in sex. Maybe your H sees the lack of sex as a lack of interest & commitment from you and is also afraid to get hurt. (I'm on your side -dont get me wrong - just tryin to figure that boy of yours out).
As far as my ground rules - the focus was a bit different because I had just caught him breaking nc for 2 weeks & I was just blown away. So OW was still present. Anyway, we were going to co-exist. He was going to build a room for himself in our basement. We were going to try to keep it a secret from family because it was important for us both that the kids not know about it. Our kids are young enough so that my h is still their hero. I would not want to take that away from them. (But, by the same token, once he built the bedroom, I dont know how long it was going to stay a secret.) OW was not to call the house, he was not to have any contact with her in my home, in my children's presence. The money part - we didn't get down to the nitty gritty on that - but it was essentially going to be how to pay all the bills of the house - bills that benefit us both. Quite frankly, had I not changed my mind, he would have had an agreement to sign within the week. (I'm a divorce attorney). I was going to separate the bank accounts and credit cards. We were going to creat a schedule where we each could go out and the other would watch the kids so we could pursue a social life. (O - and within an hour of discovering he broke NC, I got ALL the financial information I was going to need to divorce together).
Fun- I know how you feel about feeling dead inside. That is how I felt until just this week. And, the only reason why I feel different this week is not because my h said all the right things (For God's sakes I've practically told him word for word on a half dozen occasions what I wanted to hear, yet he can't seem to push out the words.), but because I saw love & commitment from him in his own way - he gave up things that were important to him and didn't mope about it, etc. I felt like I was first and that has given me hope.
I totally understand not wanting to D but being scared to R. R is scary, it's risky. No doubt about it. But do you love your H? Do you want to be with him? He seems remorseful - just a little clueless.
Well, I've said enough. G'night all.

[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 9:47 PM, April 16th (Friday)]


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 10:59 PM, April 16th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HurtShirley: Thank you for sharing your experience with us. It's good to see that there can be some hope for some of us with LTA. I'm glad you were able to get to that place to really say, "It's not my fault!"
Happy Anniversary!

Allgood: I'm happy to hear that there is some change for you. I really understand what you are saying. I used to say to DS #1 when he was upset with his father, "Just because he doesn't show his love the way you want him to, doesn't mean he doesn't love you." I used to think that xWH didn't really love his kids because he wasn't that affectionate with them. But when I remarried and had the 2 little guys, DS#1 was like the playtoy playing and laughing, but DS#2 would quietly watch his baby brother and when the baby got near the outlet or was about to fall, DS#2 just quickly and quietly "save" the baby. I suddently realized that was exactly how his father was. He watched them very carefully, but didn't smother them. This was how he showed his love.
Of course, it is different when you are married. Just realizing that yes, maybe they do love us very much, but can't really show it the way we want may not be good enough, we may NEED to be shown it differently to feel happy, but deep down, it does feel better that they actually do. And if we can accept that, then perhaps we can move forward.

I think if NC is in place and WH does want to make an effort, there is a possibility that all the hurt, anger and resentment can possibly be worked through.
Unfortunately, in my case, there is no NC, and probably will never be. I just have to figure out where to go from here. <sigh>


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 11:52 PM, April 16th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nofun: i am happy to hear that he is talking...opening up for some is more then tough...it is like asking them to take a bullet.. ...having to share your deepest thoughts with someone who holds the power to hurt you puts you into a not so good frame of mind...for most of us women, and some men like tryn and dip we know that in order to really get what we need and want, opening up and sharing what we feel is necessary...and dip i know you cannot share as much as the rest of us...mostly because your wife cannot handle, but if she were more open minded i don't think sharing would be an issue for you....but men who share, especially their fears, usually tread lightly at least with the people whom they feel hold the power to not just hurt them but destroy them....

i am also glad no fun that you are posting alot, it really is cathartic isn't it..

and i am even happier nofun that you are going to give another shot...you really have nothing to lose at this point, and everything to gain...

allgood: i have to say, being in your shoes, knowing all that you are entitled to and knowing your rights has got to be totally empowering..so yay for you...

hurtshirley:

first off it is good to hear from you...and you still sound really good...like you are standing on solid ground..and that is wonderful..

Not in a joyous fashion but as a milestone of what we have been through.

you are in "r" it should be joyous...because of what you been through...we truly appreciate the joys in our lives when the lows are as low as can be...for it is tragedy, sadness and hurt that make the good all that much better you know...to truly experience joy with every fiber of your being, you must first experience the opposite which is pain...

i am hangin on to that one,...hell something has to keep me goin...with going to hell and back i figure i might be due for some joy...

seriously hs, celebrate, it is worth celebrating because of all you came through "together"..time to take that day back for what it is...

The poor child spent his whole life trying to make his mother happy and suffering because she wasn’t.

this must be in that ws manual as a prequisite, under the heading.."the beginning"..


honest: thanks for the kid advice...i know i really really try not to compare him to his dad or his dad's foo..it really is not healthy for him for me to do that...once in a while i slip..but i really do need to be more mindful of this, because manchild of my 3 is the one who has the most damage from pfm...

I don't know what to do about where he should sleep.

well if you do not want him in your bed then by all means kick him out of it...give him a sleeping bag if there is no where else, the couch, the bathtub, an address of a local hotel...

just make sure you don't allow him to bully you into letting him sleep in YOUR bed...and lay down that rule like first thing..so that there is no misunderstanding...

It gets lonely sleeping alone (I'm not talking about being "intimate"). I've been doing it for so long with our damn lifestyle. It's so easy to pretend that everything is ok, just so I can be hugged and held.

but alas its not really easy is it?...if anything it makes for more sadness...

long story i hope short,pfm and i had a on again off again sex life, didn't start out that way, but because of the marriage it became, he literally killed my sex drive which was quite high...anyway because we would go long stretches, when we did connect, if it was intense i would start to cry during...because i would be so overwhelmed with sadness because i loved this man so much and i missed that intimacy and i would look at him and ask him all the time, don't you miss this, he of course would always answer yes...but he never missed it or me enough..not until after d-day...

the point of this is pretending doesn't really work, not when the pain is so deep, it just really takes that sadness and multiplies it...kind of why the ws's are supposed to go total nc, becaue it keeps something alive that needs to die...or it reminds you of something you no longer have...either way its not good...

nofun:

We are all in this together and thank God for all you wonderful people.

i ditto this..

(((tribe)))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 4:48 AM, April 17th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I’ve not been in much the last couple of weeks. I will catch up with you all – or maybe just the last few pages. This is such a chatty forum! Anyways, I just have to get this down somewhere as I have a sick feeling.

FWH is stuck in Chicago. There are no flights to the UK and he is booked on a “potential” flight Tuesday. I received this text when I got up:
Gd mng babe.
You look wonderful! I love you and want to make love to you.
Easy. X

I read it and laughed. And then thought “did he mean to send that to me, or someone else?” You look wonderful? Who the fuck did he think was he sending to?

He’ll tell me something plausible. But I ask myself if it’s going to be like this forever. I remember getting texts that were probably meant for MOW, things like “I love you and that’s forever. And I’m not drunk” Of course when I questioned him on those ones, he said he was trying to get back to me. Yeh, right.

I texted back
I read ur txt ages ago. I dont think it was meant for me. So I'll just slip by that one and put it down to jetlag.

Just my little pity party moment. I’ll bbl when I’ve done a couple of hours decorating.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 5:28 AM, April 17th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honest: Forgot to add a few things in my earlier post: it seems to me that your h loves you, doesn't want to lose you, but he really doesn't seem to respect you at all. If there's not going to be NC, then there's no R. Simple. This is not a situation where he's struggling with breaking NC - right - he is telling you he's never going to go NC?
If that is the case, trying to save the M with an unwilling partner is just going to hurt you more. Maybe one day he'll wake up and realize what he's lost and make a BIG change, like divorcing his 1st wife. (Not sure if I got that right either - I know it was a little complicated). I would 180 and try to find someone else to make you happy.
It seems like you are almost 100% responsible for your home & family so that doesn't leave a lot of time for you, but maybe when he comes home you should be like - hey - why don't you catch up with the kids - I'll be out.
Seriously - I would do that.
And, Hell no he doesn't sleep in the same bed with you if that makes you feel uncomfortable.
Hope you have a partly sunny day today.

UKGirl - man that's tough. I really don't know what to think about that at all. (I gather you cant access his phone records or you would've been all over that already. Maybe you need to ask to see the records when he comes home). I would be suspicious tho - but then again, I always am. Let us how he responded to your text.

(Edited because posting without any coffee makes for a very confusing post.)

[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 6:05 AM, April 17th (Saturday)]


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 8:33 AM, April 17th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

honesttoafault….
WH is coming back in 2 weeks and I don't know what to do about where he should sleep.
Maybe before he comes home to set foot under your same roof, you can help him find a class or seminar on how to be a good man, a good H. Good men don’t tell there wives the need have cosmetic surgery. Good men don’t tell there wife’s they have 2 wives. What is going to change that is going to make you happy when he comes home? A dozen roses I suppose. Honest… you are under tremendous pressure right now and must make good choices if you want to be happy. This is what you need from him….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82ctJPv_kGU
Does this man have it in him? Just by all the post I read from you, I can tell you are a wonder lovely kind hearted sweet person… Happiness is spending your life with someone you can trust, loyal, kind hearted, loving…

Nofun… So, I was in northern Ohio this week at this beautiful spot… a couple were talking, she was crying and he was trying to hold her hand. Perhaps discussing a turning point in life…. I think you have a choice…

I feel dead inside and can't get past the anger and betrayal.
… is this really you? Are you really incapable?


tears falling to an unknown future

The Brandywine Fall have been many things
A mill, an electric plant, a brewery and now just a bed and breakfast close by.
The electric plant was struck by lightening but now only some ruins can be seen.
The moss, weeds and ivy has managed to hide all past, the history.
While the past will be forever be remembered, the beauty of the falls are still here for us to see today... healed from a man.

Make your day something wonderful today! My daughter’s last prom date tonight!
Peace out….

[This message edited by trynhard at 8:54 AM, April 17th (Saturday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 8:39 AM, April 17th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgone - TT was the fact that he took OW to a firefighter's convention in Vegas. The one I was supposed to go on but ended up not being able to go because my daughter's bridal shower was the day after we would have returned and that wouldn't have left enough time for me to prepare. So he took OW....the balls...all of his "brothers" were there from all over the country and they all know ME because I always went to every convention with him for the last 16 years. It set me gack to the beginning. I still wonder what they thought?

I am so so angry and disgusted and disappointed in him that I just can't get past it and it's been over a month now that I found out.

Before that we were muddling along, being intimate even though it was tough but nontheless I felt we were making baby steps. He had sent me flowers one day for no reason.

My H is like yours in the sex department, it's very important to him and we ended up like you. I didn't feel emotionally connected to him because he had checked out of the marriage because of OW. It was not good and I couldn't figure out why he checked out and became distant.(thought maybe he was going through a mid=life crisis?) So I just put my efforts into raising kids, bought a business,went back to school, vonuteered my time as a family mediator for troubled teens, was a victims advocate, etc. While he was on his fantasy F$%^ fest. I look back at what I just wrote and I can see why he said I didn't need him. But I took all this on after he checked out to keep myself busy until he came out of his crisis (or so I thought) Stupid ME!!

We were talking about co-existing but that isn't what I really want and neither does he.

I care for my husband and I love him like I love my dogs. (isn't that a horrible thing to say?) I have not been able to get that connection back and even when we were intimate (the mind movies would get in the way)I couldn't feel it. I'm not looking forward to the mind movies again so I have held back with the sex.

I'll see what this weekend brings. I'm glad you are feeling better this week. I hope it continues for you. None of this crap do we deserve.

Honest - I had a son that was a challenge, he's now 25 and he's still a challenge. But there is hope. I don't know your whole story but hang in. My son was in therapy when he was 15 and he had issues with his father. He felt his father didn't like him, never spent time with him, never talked to him, etc. Part of it was true and he still has issues with it. He is still the child I worry about and I keep hoping one day the lightbulb will come on. Some days it shines and other days it's like he reverts back to 15 years old. And then this A made him more angry at his dad. He tells me he loves his father because he is his father but he thinks his dad is an asshole. Grrrrr.

I hope everyone's weekend is fun. We all need a little fun.


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 8:42 AM, April 17th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

trynhard = maybe i will never be able to get past the anger and the betrayal. I am not a forgiving person.


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 8:44 AM, April 17th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am not a forgiving person.
and that is your choice... I don't think that is healthy... But that is me... and many wise men dating back from the beginning of time.

[This message edited by trynhard at 8:47 AM, April 17th (Saturday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 9:31 AM, April 17th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How can I have intimacy with all of those horrid mind movies? It is like torture. And I get disgusted like I want to throw up.

NoFun - This is such a difficult thing to overcome but from someone who is 4 1/2 years out and also someone who knew the face of the OW, let me assure you, it can be overcome! I have absolutely been through what you are experiencing and slowly, over time and with absolute determination, you can rid yourself of these devastating mind games. One of the ways that I was able to do this (of course the first requirement is a firey determination to be rid of them) is as soon as the images come into your head you force yourself to stop and focus only on the good sensations that your own body is experiencing. Work with your H by asking him to do those things that are especially stimulating to you and really, really focus on the good stuff. I found this to be so helpful and I can assure you, it is a rare time indeed when my negative visions intrude. I hope this helps.
Let me also say, and this is IMHO only, that I think rekindling our sex lives with our FWS's is essential to recovery. If you do decide to give this M another try, as Allgood said, "it might help your H reach the next level which in turn might help you reach the next level." Great advice!!!!!!
HS - Let me tell you that your post brought happy, happy tears to my eyes. I cannot tell you how thrilled I am to hear that you are in this place. I love the quote but I love it even more that you feel ready to grant forgiveness to EO so that he can "begin anew with dignity." God, that is beautiful!!!!!! You are a strong, generous and loving person and it is no wonder that EO has been working his ass off to deserve you. Kudos to you both!
I hope you'll keep us posted on how you decide to celebrate your anniversary. I just wish I could somehow be that fly on the wall and witness firsthand the absolute joy the two of you will feel knowing how far you have come.
Unfortunately, in my case, there is no NC, and probably will never be. I just have to figure out where to go from here.

Honest - I worry about you so much because I cannot imagine how difficult it is to be in your situation. Who do you have to talk to IRL to give you the love and support you need? Do you have a C who is helping you deal with your unique situation? Also, I would think your children need C'ing to work through their confusion too. Do you have a C to help them?
Sorry, I'm in a bad place today. It's almost like I want to lay down and sob, but the tears aren't coming.

(((((((((((Honest))))))))))
I am a firm believer in following through with those emotions. Since my twin sister died back in the fall, there are days when I can't even function and so I DON'T! I give into those emotions and let myself cry for as long as I need to - even if it is for days. I don't let myself worry about anyone else. And you know what, I feel so much stronger when I come out of that. I don't know what is holding back your tears from flowing, but if it is your very generous nature not wanting to upset anyone else (and I'm thinking this just might be it) please try to find a quiet place and let those tears flow. I guarantee you, your heart will feel so much better. It will not change your situation (my sister is never coming back to me) but it does relieve the awful pressure when our sadness overwhelms us. My prayers and hugs go out to you.
UKG - I just want to send you some hugs and am hoping your H can explain what this text message meant and that the answer makes perfect sense for you. One thought I had is that possibly, because he knew how important it was for you to make those physical changes, he wants to keep telling you how beautiful you are (and you are ) and it was this that he message was hoping to convey. I know it is hard for you when he goes away on business and the airline situation just adds to your anxiety but hopefully when he returns he will be able to give you the explanation you need.

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 9:40 AM, April 17th (Saturday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 11:13 AM, April 17th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ukgirl: have not heard from you dear heart...are you o.k?
Yep. Just took a little break. I am supposed to be stripping wallpaper, not reading about 15 pages of catch-up! There have been some interesting discussions and some changing circumstances.

As for H’s excuse for his text, I knew he’d come up with something. He said he’d just woken up at 8:30, read my text and said it was a reply to a text I’d sent on Wednesday about having my hair done. It wasn’t his fault it had only just arrived with me. Oh for fuck’s sake. Please don’t go there, he said. There is no one else, he said. He thought it might lift my spirits. Sorry, unless I see when he sent it, I won’t believe him. If he’s back in contact with her, I don’t want him to come home at all. Ever. I can’t ask him to save it, cos he’ll say it’s already deleted. Or should I? Should I ask for the proof if he has it? Anyway, he’s gone to the Chicago cubs game today. At least he’s gone out there with three colleagues, so it’s not so bad.

m33, Just want to say thanks for the pic of your DD. But as for going back to work – already?? Guess things are diff in the UK. Blessings, good health and a happy Baby Paddy (can I call her that – born on St Paddy’s Day?)

And hi shirley. It’s great that you are in this place now and that you feel you can plan a proper celebration with EO for your 25th. Your post is a light of hope for those not so far out.

I'm catching up.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 11:19 AM, April 17th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nofun, I don’t know what to say. I don’t think there’s much of a choice for you if he is so hell bent on not talking, on driving you away, on thinking that this is a minor blip in your marriage and you should be over it already. Sheesh. Has the man had some kind of empathy/emotional lobotomy? Maybe he was just born plain self absorbed.
"I don't want to deal with HER kids".
That was a throwaway line. For that read “I didn’t like or love her enough”. And remember, the affair is always about the WS. He wanted OW on his terms.
Do you think your moving out will snap him out of this pity pit? He is self flagellating and a WS doing that in front of his BS is NOT going to help!!!
What I really wanted to hear was, I will wait for you for however long it takes. I didn't get that. I know him well enough to realize he has no clue how to communicate his feelings, no clue what actions to take. He was all over the place, he said he wanted to book a room and either take me to the ocean in Maine or Boston overnight, dinner, etc. I said why didn't you? He said "will it make a difference?" Well, duh...
Well, my FWH said that he would wait for as long as it took. Unfortunately, he also said that to MOW……. He was still sending texts post d-day to that effect. And MC told him he had to take the risk that I would throw flowers back in his face, refuse to go to away for the weekend, walk out of a restaurant, but he still had to do it because it was demonstrating that he cared. After all, my pov was that I had been rejected for five years, so he could take a little dent to his pride every now and then. Mind you, it took a lonnnnng long time for him to do it. And he still struggles now. But then I reckon me being the one who used to organise everything could have something to do with it.
Lastly, the mind movies. They will pass in time. Yep, I’m another to say that. FWH and I went straight into HB and, oddly enough, I didn’t think about them and sex for weeks. I really was very foggy about everything and unable to hold a thought for more than a few seconds. Then they came crashing in. But having had the HB, it was easier to work through them with FWH and he was sure to concentrate on ME and not just the sex. Still have them. Still resent them. It’s an effort to banish them, but entirely possible.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 11:24 AM, April 17th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just wanted to write a quick and heartfelt thank you to everyone. You guys brought tears to my eyes.
Tryn, I loved your pictures!! Your photo and description of the Brandywine (reminds me of Tolkien's Brandywine in the Shire, I'm a BOOK fan of LOTR for over 30 years)
Stephen King once wrote that sometimes our past hurts are like that old fashioned sketch pad, the one that had a black backing and two layers of plastic film on top. One clear and the other gray and you wrote on it with a stylus? When you lifted it off the back, it would become clear, but the etchings were still on that black board in the back.

Allgood, WH married me first 17 years ago. I am not exactly sure when he married OW. It may have been between 8 or possibly 9 years ago. It's a long complicated story. She knew all along and I met her before I knew all about this.

I want to answer everyone's posts more, but will do it later.
I was telling my neighbor/friend who has become my angel that this forum is like group therapy!!

Luv ya guys.

{{{{{Tribe}}}}}}}


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 12:33 PM, April 17th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood, I’ve read Hufi’s post before. It’s very good and should be there somewhere in the healing library. I took a copy of it some time back and have referred to it every now and then. Another I read was on the Process of Self Delusion. If you google it, you should find the article on dividedheart website. Interesting and thought provoking. I had several “a-ha” moments when I first I read it. And I’m very pleased your H read the article. Let’s hope he’s taken it to heart.

Honest, You’ve been given some good advice here.

WH is coming back in 2 weeks and I don't know what to do about where he should sleep. I know he expects that he is sleeping in our bed and that he wants to put a front on for the kids.
Why? WHY should he sleep in your bed? He is manipulating you, telling you one thing but acting out another. This is emotional and mental abuse. He is finding a way of having his cake and eat it too. If you are prepared to be in a bigamous or polygamous relationship, then fine, let him sleep and have sex with you. Otherwise, set out your boundaries or all you will be doing is enabling his behaviour. Is this acceptable to you honest?
I don't know what I want. I am torn between kicking him from here to eternity, and then I do miss him. Or I guess to be more exact, miss who I thought he was.
Of course you do. You are still grieving. You want back what you have lost and you can pretend that is the case while you are with him. but that would be you living, for a brief moment, in fantasyland.
It gets lonely sleeping alone (I'm not talking about being "intimate"). I've been doing it for so long with our damn lifestyle. It's so easy to pretend that everything is ok, just so I can be hugged and held.
I can’t remember – are you in IC? I really think you should find some if you are not. It will help bolster your strength.
Your H has changed the whole contract and agreement of your marriage. Treat it as you would any other legal document and get some serious advice and counselling. He has LIED to you big time and now he wants or expects you to come around now he’s offered this fait accompli.
((((((((((honest)))))))))

I have read jasper’s thread too. Very sad, but he has had some great advice. The SI guys are so great and a BH needs those man-hugs, back slaps, cyber beers and male understanding. I love all the SI guys!

Lastly, teens. Well, boys anyway. No doubt we can all look at our kids and wonder how they turned out so different when they share the same genes. (Actually, the eldest three DO share jeans! LOL) DS3 was by far the worst. Smoking by 11 (he now says 8) so that lung development was damaged. That came out after a full examination after a traffic accident. Drinking also at 11. Smoking iffy substances by 12. Sex at 13. Bunking off school at 14. Stealing from me and H. In trouble with the law (no record, thank goodness) when MIL & FIL were in loco parentis – drove them to tears. Of course, much of it was not helped by WH’s affair. He could be pretty nasty in the way he dealt with and spoke to DS. And then we had DS1’s drinking which became very anti-social when he came in drunk. Again, I do think WH’s lack of proper support and his withdrawal from the family didn’t help. I did feel very much a single parent but without the financial poverty. But I knew that they would, at some point, come out of it. It took longer than I thought, but frankly after d-day (when they were 21, 20, 18 and 11 - they were 16, 15, 13 and 6 when the LTA began) all I could think about was survival and taking the next breath. DS1 was so affected by my distress, even though he didn’t know the cause, he moved out and into a flat in the high street. Reading that, it makes them sound absolute shits! But now? 25, 23 and 21. They live together in the same house (along with three others), get along fine and have turned into lovely men – which I always knew they would. If I had told them after d-day what their father had done, I think it would have sent DS3 right off the rails, DS1into truly hating his dad, DS2 might not have done so well at uni as he is such a softie and he did worry about me for months. But now I can say I am very proud of them and love them more than I can say. They stopped me from killing myself, truth be told.

I'm taking my rambling offline for a bit as I need to get some stuff done around the house!!

[This message edited by UKgirl at 12:38 PM, April 17th (Saturday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
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