Cheating Hurt by Infidelity
Betrayal Wayward Donations lying
Welcome

Forums

Guidelines

Find a Local Counselor

The Healing Library

Media

Contact Us
lies
cover
In Association with Amazon.com
Support
Infidelity -
-
Find a Local Couselor
You are not logged in. Login here or register.
[Register]
Newest Member: Depressed4ever (43230)

I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's IV
Heartbroken1993
♀ Member
Member # 27887
Default  Posted: 2:17 PM, October 7th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

leftoolate

thanks for the input. There really isn't anymore I can do at this point.

I don't know if it's the time of year right now or that becuase I have these doubts for so long, it's starting to really eat at me to where I'm not funtioning.

Either way I'd wish he'd come out with it, OR I wish there was someway for me to believe him. I feel like i'm starting to really shut down over this.


WS-Him 36 (2 PA's)IamsosorryHB1993 (IASS)
BS-Me 36
Married 11yrs, together 20yrs. HS Sweethearts & Onlies
DD 5yrs
DS 3yrs
Getting Better

Posts: 1200 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: OH
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 2:57 PM, October 7th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Heartbroken1993 -

Are these details that have only been verbally discussed? Maybe by summarizing the gap in writing, the inconsistency will more easily "jump off the page" and it can spark more open conversation about why you can't believe what you're being told?


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Heartbroken1993
♀ Member
Member # 27887
Default  Posted: 3:12 PM, October 7th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Listeningclosely:

I've been toying with this idea-like a hybrid timeline if you will. List out what I have issues with write them on a calendar and compare them to my proof (phone records,texts records,etc)and then talk about it with him.

He has never came out with any "truths" till after MOW called me and my sister told me of OW#1 (of which she just found out at the time, she wasn't holding info for that long). It's like when he's cornered then he spills.....

Ok in the beginning I can understand that behavior but 9 months out he should know that me finding out on on my own makes it a zillion times worse than him telling me first.......

Then again this is also the man that won't even bring up the affair or talk about his feelings without me talking/asking first


WS-Him 36 (2 PA's)IamsosorryHB1993 (IASS)
BS-Me 36
Married 11yrs, together 20yrs. HS Sweethearts & Onlies
DD 5yrs
DS 3yrs
Getting Better

Posts: 1200 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: OH
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:24 PM, October 7th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think at this point, HB, you have nothing to lose with moving forward with your idea instead of toying with it.

Anything that opens a line of communication is a good effort, whether that communication leads to happy or sad information.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Blindbat
♀ Member
Member # 29495
Default  Posted: 2:38 AM, October 8th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Primarily, yes. The longer the time since NC was established, the clearer my thinking was.

How can you help? Hold him accountable to the things he will need to do to heal. NC must be strictly held. He must go to IC to face the reality of what happened (instead of the fantasy he has developed in his mind during the A). He should read books that will help him see more clearly, such as "After the Affair" and "Not Just Friends".

Keep holding his feet to the fire on these things, and he has a good shot at clearing his thinking that fantasizes about OW and sees the relationship for the train wreck it truly was.

Good lord I hope you're right. He says to me he wants to prove he's met the condition for being at home (finish the A and NC), says he'll look at his mobile phone account online with me at any time on request but won't give me the password... I've just had Not Just Friends delivered and will be taking it away with us next week and want him to read it (we're off to hide from the world for a week doing something that's "ours" and we both love that is in a "safe" environment for me because she won't be anywhere near and, I trust, phones will be turned off).... He makes no bones about taking responsibility for what he's done but won't offer full info, you still have to ask the specific question... and whilst he says he's incredibly sorry he's hurt me, he's still clearly too much in love with her to be sorry he did it.... And to cap it all, last night he reached to cuddle me in bed in his sleep and used her language (we're both native English speakers) and called me by her name.... It's only 3 days since he finished the A (at least while we work out whether we have a future) so it's v early days but can there really any way back for him (and hence me)?

[This message edited by Blindbat at 2:40 AM, October 8th (Friday)]


Noli illegitimi carborundum
Not yet as divorced as I'd like to be :-(

Posts: 713 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: The Land of Chocolate
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 6:02 AM, October 8th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Blindbat -

I'm sorry about your cuddling experience. It's something that he has to purge from himself and it will take time. But it doesn't make the experience any less painful.

I am curious why he won't give you his mobile password. Honestly, there is zero excuse for any WS not to share passwords to all communication accounts (email, IM, mobile, etc.) with their BS. It may help to remind him that the greatest damage caused from affairs is not the act itself but the erosion of trust from the lies that go with an A.

If he cannot turn over all passwords - including his mobile - to you, then he is not doing everything to try to heal your M.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
notrightnow
♀ Member
Member # 29424
Default  Posted: 9:33 AM, October 8th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I posted here yesterday and got a good response. I wanted to post again to see if I would get more responses as they seem to help me tremendously!

D-Day for us was 3 months ago. My FWH chose to stay and I decided I was willing to work on it. I have been putting everything I have in to it and am running on empty. FWH still has some strong feelings for MOW. I know he loves me but he seems to be stuck in an emotional rut and his feelings for her are getting in the way of our healing. They work together but are having no non-work related contact. I think even seeing her though keeps those feelings around longer. My FWH is very caring and compassionate toward me and is doing everything I ask of him.

My question are for those of you WSs that were involved in EAs:

1. How long did it take for you to wake up emotionally (come out of the fog)?

2. Did your spouse do a 180 to wake you up (I feel like FWH is trying so I'm sure this is the way I want to go)?

3. Once you came out of the "fog" did your feelings of being "in love" with your spouse come back?

4. What are some things he can do (and I can do to help him) to move past his feelings for OW?


Me - BS (37) ~ Him - FWH (38)
D-Day #1 7/5/10 ~ D-Day #2 1/7/11
Married - 12 years
Together - 21 years (High school sweethearts)
2 beautiful daughters (7 & 5)
I think I can say for certain that we will make it but ask me again tomorrow :)

Posts: 145 | Registered: Aug 2010
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 10:15 AM, October 8th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

notrightnow -

Here's my answers for you. I'd invite other FWS's to respond as well:

1. How long did it take for you to wake up emotionally (come out of the fog)?

Approximately five months from D-Day.

2. Did your spouse do a 180 to wake you up (I feel like FWH is trying so I'm sure this is the way I want to go)?

My spouse didn't necessarily have the need to do a 180, but it was because of our history together. She has never been one to make idle threats. When she states a consequence, she follows through on it. So on D-Day when she told me that I was to call either a counselor or an attorney, I knew I had to do that.

3. Once you came out of the "fog" did your feelings of being "in love" with your spouse come back?

Sort of. I say it that way because in hindsight my love for my BW never truly left. If it did, that small voice inside telling me on D-Day to stay and fight for the M would not have convinced me to make the right choices. With that said, yes the feelings of love intensified post-fog, and continue to grow each and every day.

4. What are some things he can do (and I can do to help him) to move past his feelings for OW?

I know this might not be an easy thing to hear, but he really needs to think about changing his job. Even if all conversation is held to just work issues, OW's physical presence is a daily reminder of the A and how he felt during it. It took me five months to defog with true NC in place. I can't imagine how I would have done it if I had to see her every day.

Aside from that, making sure IC is followed up on and processing it all, reading key books like "After the Affair" and "Not Just Friends", and simply being more open with his communications with you will all help.

[This message edited by Listeningclosely at 10:17 AM, October 8th (Friday)]


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
notrightnow
♀ Member
Member # 29424
Default  Posted: 10:30 AM, October 8th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you Listeningclosely! Your responses give me hope. I guess it is sort of paying it forward for you since your BS gave you such a beautiful gift.

We have discussed a job change and it is a definite possibility. He actually thinks OW is in the process of finding a new job and we are in wait mode. I think she is terrified because she is married and her BS doesn't know (I know there are many who think I should have told him).

I know my husband loves me and we have a very long history together! I would be shocked if we can't figure this out but I am just tired!


Me - BS (37) ~ Him - FWH (38)
D-Day #1 7/5/10 ~ D-Day #2 1/7/11
Married - 12 years
Together - 21 years (High school sweethearts)
2 beautiful daughters (7 & 5)
I think I can say for certain that we will make it but ask me again tomorrow :)

Posts: 145 | Registered: Aug 2010
notrightnow
♀ Member
Member # 29424
Default  Posted: 10:32 AM, October 8th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Listeningclosely

BTW - I loved your response to #3. I always believed that he stayed because of the kids (even though he denies it) but your answer gives me something to think about


Me - BS (37) ~ Him - FWH (38)
D-Day #1 7/5/10 ~ D-Day #2 1/7/11
Married - 12 years
Together - 21 years (High school sweethearts)
2 beautiful daughters (7 & 5)
I think I can say for certain that we will make it but ask me again tomorrow :)

Posts: 145 | Registered: Aug 2010
Blindbat
♀ Member
Member # 29495
Default  Posted: 11:19 AM, October 8th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm sorry about your cuddling experience. It's something that he has to purge from himself and it will take time. But it doesn't make the experience any less painful.

Yes, I suspected it would be sth like that. I realise it's early days, so I think the distraction next week should help. I just want to get him away from her long enough for the otherwise very good head on his shoulders to have the slightest chance against his other head... (this is evidently an Internet affair that intentionally became a PA the very first time they met and then got "complicated" by an "emotional connection we didn't expect to find")

I am curious why he won't give you his mobile password. Honestly, there is zero excuse for any WS not to share passwords to all communication accounts (email, IM, mobile, etc.) with their BS. It may help to remind him that the greatest damage caused from affairs is not the act itself but the erosion of trust from the lies that go with an A.

If he cannot turn over all passwords - including his mobile - to you, then he is not doing everything to try to heal your M.

No, he clearly isn't doing everything possible yet. I think he's hedging his bets. As I said, he takes full responsibility for his decisions, albeit still coming out with some justifications (that's what they are but he doesn't actually realise it) - but he makes no bones about the fact it was his choice, I didn't deserve what's happened to me and I have nothing to be sorry for. Strangely 180 and going away on my own had the opposite effect on him (did me good) and insofar as I can second-guess anything, I think he thinks he's damaged the M so much that I can't possibly love him and therefore he's not willing to give up his privacy for something he thinks will fail anyway. Clearly he's protecting himself again, he's not willing to put it all on the line for me and take the risk of commitment. And yet he has finished the affair, it would seem, and is prepared to commit to seeing what we both want. But at least we'll have the space and time to ourselves next week with no outside influences and phones near-as-dammit off - and a week of safety for me - to see whether there's anything left and whether either of us can bear to be together in the new reality. Complete opposite views, I think - I'm working on the basis of not writing anything off until we've tried, he seems to be working on the basis of why put any effort into sth you've already killed stone dead - but he *has* finished the affair albeit clearly very much against his inclinations. I truly think he believes he loves two women equally. Can't say I'm overly optimistic about the outcome - I'm just getting so tired

[This message edited by Blindbat at 11:32 AM, October 8th (Friday)]


Noli illegitimi carborundum
Not yet as divorced as I'd like to be :-(

Posts: 713 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: The Land of Chocolate
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 11:30 AM, October 8th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

notrightnow -

1. How long did it take for you to wake up emotionally (come out of the fog)?

About six months.

2. Did your spouse do a 180 to wake you up (I feel like FWH is trying so I'm sure this is the way I want to go)?

No, he just told me he would leave and take the kids. He meant it.

3. Once you came out of the "fog" did your feelings of being "in love" with your spouse come back?

Well, I never stopped loving him... The affair was never about love - it was seduction. If I had been single, or if I had divorced, I would only have been with the xOM maybe a couple of months, at most. That was my M.O. when I was single.

4. What are some things he can do (and I can do to help him) to move past his feelings for OW?

You cannot do anything to help him - you are too closely involved. Therapy helped me a lot. One of the exercises was to think it through all the way to the end. Let's say your H does get together with the OW - you bow out of the picture gracefully (in this example). They move in together, they start to experience life together. How would he feel about that?

We are all adults here - we all understand there's fantasy and real life. We all know that whomever we live with, there will be those little things (dirty counter, socks, lawn, whatever). But, who do we want to experience those things with?

And then there's the life he left behind (you). How does that affect him?

Think everything through to the end.

That is just one exercise. These kinds of exercises are too hurtful for you. What you can do is state your position - if he doesn't get out of the fog in 6 months, you are walking. (But don't say it if you don't mean it.)


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 11:32 AM, October 8th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Blindbat -

He's definitely foggy. That much is clear.

To an extent I think he's hedging his bets.

Among the greatest gifts (in hindsight) my BW gave me was her approach to things in the immediate aftermath of D-Day. I had proposed a possible trial S, and she refused. Her approach was clear - I was either all in or all out of the R effort. There was no middle ground.

If I was in, I would do all that was required to heal. I would invest my full self in our relationship and abandon all other paths. In return, she would not commit to the result, but she would commit to investing all of herself in the R effort until it ran it's course.

That action alone had the result of preventing a tentative, partial and guarded approach by me in R. It was a huge risk, but the risk was actually equal for both of us. Thankfully in our case, it paid off.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Blindbat
♀ Member
Member # 29495
Default  Posted: 11:37 AM, October 8th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Listeningclosely, thank you again

I would invest my full self in our relationship and abandon all other paths. In return, she would not commit to the result, but she would commit to investing all of herself in the R effort until it ran it's course.

This he has already written to me (a hand-written letter in this day and age) and I hope that is the stage we are beginning to reach but he's still hurting massively and hasn't de-fogged enough to "get it". OTOH the whole bally lot could just be stringing me along. Is it likely he'd finish the affair and put himself through that pain by choice if he weren't serious about the process? Do I just need patience (er, not exactly one of my strong points)?


Noli illegitimi carborundum
Not yet as divorced as I'd like to be :-(

Posts: 713 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: The Land of Chocolate
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 11:41 AM, October 8th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Patience combined with firmness on what you are willing to accept in your "new marriage". Define your dealbreakers, and as long as he doesn't cross those lines be as patient as possible with the rest.

given time and the right efforts, there's a chance he'll come around.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
notrightnow
♀ Member
Member # 29424
Default  Posted: 12:23 PM, October 8th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Listeningclosely and UnexpectedSong,

How did your BS treat/act towards you during your foggy time (while you were trying to get over OP). Were they affectionate/intimate? I am struggling with this!


Me - BS (37) ~ Him - FWH (38)
D-Day #1 7/5/10 ~ D-Day #2 1/7/11
Married - 12 years
Together - 21 years (High school sweethearts)
2 beautiful daughters (7 & 5)
I think I can say for certain that we will make it but ask me again tomorrow :)

Posts: 145 | Registered: Aug 2010
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 12:28 PM, October 8th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In my case, it took time for intimacy to rebuild. She was patient (more than I deserved from her), firm in her expectations and fully invested in giving R the best possible chance.

We had really good conversations around "After the Affair". As we each read chapters, we would discuss a chapter at a time together. She stated her thoughts and allowed me to state mine. She never told me my thoughts were ridiculous or out of line. Just listened and shared her own thoughts as well. It was pretty amazing actually. We had some of the most calm conversations when we used the book topics as places to start talking.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Kwills
♀ Member
Member # 13172
Default  Posted: 9:46 AM, October 9th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

1. How long did it take for you to wake up emotionally (come out of the fog)?

Looking back, I'd say nearly two years. I continued to work w/FOM for the 18 months after the A ended, so that didn't help at all. When I finally left the workplace and was able to have NC, that helped. But even that was a slow process. I was lucky enough to have a long commute in the mornings where I could think about things and process them. The job change was key I think.

2. Did your spouse do a 180 to wake you up (I feel like FWH is trying so I'm sure this is the way I want to go)?

I think he did in some ways. He pretty much never tried to control me because he knows that doesn't work with me. He just told me I needed to figure out what I wanted. No checking, no snooping, none of that. Even in non A related matters this is how he is, he's supportive but not forceful about things. He makes me step up and be an adult about my own life and decisions. He is smart enough to know that by doing that it eliminates the option of me pointing fingers later & saying, "because of you."

3. Once you came out of the "fog" did your feelings of being "in love" with your spouse come back?

Once I started working on myself and figuring out my own life, I was able to sort things out a little better. I think that I had gotten to the point pre-A that I was more fearful of loving my H because I wasn't sure that I could love him and be married and have the life I wanted to live too. I had to answer a lot of identity, value, and goal related questions for myself before I could take the risk of feeling love again. I think I always loved him.

4. What are some things he can do (and I can do to help him) to move past his feelings for OW?

Just be there and listen when he needs to talk. Some of what he has to say will hurt to hear but he is being honest with you if he risks sharing those feelings. The grief of the FWS is real--now what the grief is about is what is up for debate. I know that the hardest thing for my FBH to understand is that the A was not about him. He didn't believe it at first, but as time went on he told me that he realized that. I knew that the A wasn't about FOM either the day he started discussing marriage and I got sick to my stomach and was like "no way." If I divorced my H I knew that neither one of them would be in my life, I wanted to be free and do what I wanted to do. That was really an important moment-because I had to look at what I would be free to do. I didn't realize that I was free all along and just had to give myself internal permission and act on what I wanted. There is no brick that my FBH could have thrown at my head at that time that could have made me come to that realization--it had to come from inside of me.

Kwills


Posts: 1052 | Registered: Jan 2007
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 10:58 AM, October 9th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My husband had a 5 yr LTA with a married co-worker.
The affair only ended because I discovered it.
My husband went NC with the OW right after d-day and has never broken it.
He has made major changes in himself. Got sober, went to AA, went to IC, we went to MC for 5 months early on.
We were seperated for 6 months post d-day then he moved back home.
That is the background.
I have been in IC since d-day.
Now....my question for the WS.
I still have questions for my husband about the affair, about his feelings about the marriage, then , now, etc. Questions about the OW..what he thought about her then, now etc.
And he refuses to discuss the affair ever again.
He has drawn a line in the sand.
I have asked him for years to go back to MC. He refuses.
Finding out about the LTA was the extremely traumatic for me.I definitely suffered PTSD type symptoms.

This Jan. will be 4 yrs since d-day.

The other day when I asked about MC again... he told me I was f....in crazy...
That I was destroying the marriage. That I was stuck. That I enjoyed being miserable..etc. etc.

am I crazy?
would you react this way also?
I do not ask him questions every day.. we have gone for weeks and months without me triggering. We have gone on trips together,we do things together.
But, I have this lingering sadness and uncertainty about R and that's what I think I want to verify.

I'm afraid that after all of this time and hard work that we may be at an impasse..
I told him yesterday that this is what irreconcilable differences look like.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
HPrynne
♀ Member
Member # 18545
Default  Posted: 11:46 AM, October 9th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NJGal,
If only your WH could realize that if he told you everything, you might be able to move forward!

I'm sorry, I wish I could give you the magic answer.

Perhaps explaining that if you get the answers, maybe in a written format if he is not wanting face-face conversations, that would help you process the details and move forward?

Good luck to you.
I'm sorry you are going through this.
HP


Me, FWW
Him, BH
Married: 17 years
DDay: Jan 2008
More TT: April 2008
Lie Detector test: July 2008
He said he forgives me: Feb 13, 2011
3 children (one of them during R -- what a blessing)

Posts: 220 | Registered: Mar 2008
Topic Posts: 1000
Pages: 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · 7 · 8 · 9 · 10 · 11 · 12 · 13 · 14 · 15 · 16 · 17 · 18 · 19 · 20 · 21 · 22 · 23 · 24 · 25 · 26 · 27 · 28 · 29 · 30 · 31 · 32 · 33 · 34 · 35 · 36 · 37 · 38 · 39 · 40 · 41 · 42 · 43 · 44 · 45 · 46 · 47 · 48 · 49 · 50

Return to Forum: I Can Relate This Topic is Full
adultry
Go to :
madness  
© 2002 - 2014 SurvivingInfidelity.com. All Rights Reserved.